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Babies: 9 - 12 Months
goodtobethelarkster
member
s/o - Disney movies and sexism.
goodtobethelarkster
member
Snow White and Sleeping Beauty basically just lie around until Prince Charming comes and saves them. Cinderella only gets out of abject poverty because she marries up. Mrs. Banks needs Mary Poppins because she's heavily involved in the "give women the vote movement" and therefore isn't paying attention to her children like a proper mother would. And with the exception of a handful of characters the protagonists that really get to have non-romance based adventures are all dudes (Peter Pan, Aladin, The Lion King, Toy Story).
I don't think it's practical to stop my DD from watching them but I am going to try to convey to her somehow that the whole 'waiting to be saved' / 'independence and adventure is dudes' thing is lame. Crafting that conversation in an age appropriate way is something I have no idea how to do though. I should really look into that...
This discussion has been closed.
Re: s/o - Disney movies and sexism.
The Mouse ~ 06.12.08 | The Froggy ~ 02.23.11
Alice is the work of a pedophile. ?
LOL - touche.
The Mouse ~ 06.12.08 | The Froggy ~ 02.23.11
Have a compare/contrast discussion with her about that and Mulan or that and Fiona in Shrek.
This is true... Alice, Dorothy, Mulan, and their buddies are some of the handful of exceptions.
I watched all those movies as a kid, but I don't think I internalized any sexism because my mom was such a feminist. Really the women in our lives play a much larger role in how we feel about ourselves than the pervading media culture.
At least I hope!
You could tell her about Xena the Princess Warrior.
No. It's not that I think DD will see "Snow White" and decide to be a chick who moves in with a bunch of sloppy dudes, makes bad 'taking food from clearly evil strangers' decisions, and lies around waiting for some dude when she grows up. It's that I think there are lots of sexist undertones in "classic" and some not so classic kids movies and I think I'd like to tell DD that. I'm not quite sure why you think that's funny.
There are a lot of negative messages that our society sends to girls. We can't shelter our daughters from them, but hopefully we can help them grow into strong, confident women.
Yeah I don't get how it is funny either. ?
what about the incredibles??? and meet the robinsons??
my favorite *classic* disney movies are cinderella & alice, and i am very pro-women's rights
My point isn't that if you like Cinderella as a kid you're going to end up thinking that Rush Limbaugh is a hippy and that Sarah Palin is great except for that she doesn't spend enough time pregnant and in the kitchen. My point is there is a lot of sexist content in Disney movies. Not every Disney movie ever. But generally speaking. I'd like to point this out to DD so she's more aware of how media and tacit cultural messages can shape our expectations and perceptions.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but whatev. I hardly think a two hour Disney movie is going to shape my daughter's sense of self. I plan on leading by example and showing her every day how to be a strong woman with morals and values and enough independence to know that you don't have to rely on a man for happiness.
None of the cartoons or movies I watched as a child struck such a chord with me that my entire life was changed or my perception of how things should be was changed.
Who I am is a result of my up bringing, my peers and my own decision to be the person I eventually became. Disney doesn't even cross my radar nor do any of the other movies I've watched throughout my life.
My Etsy Store PIGGY'S PLACE
You are missing Larks' point. She doesn't think that watching one 2 hour movie will irrevocably alter Maggie's life. She thinks the media sends certain messages to our children--through movies, television shows, news stories, advertisements, etc.--that can affect how they see the world. Not because they watched one movie, but because we are all constantly exposed to these things throughout our life and they shape our culture and our perceptions. And she wants to use the Disney movies as an opportunity to talk to her daughter about sexism.
Did I get the gist right, Larks?
Right, I got her point, thanks.
My point was that I was exposed to all of those movies throughout my entire life and am nothing like those women, not at all. Sure movies like this can have an affect on a child who lives in a household where it's acceptable for women to be placed in that type of role. That's not how it will be in my house and that's not how it was for me growing up.
My Etsy Store PIGGY'S PLACE
You should read "Buy, Buy Baby"...it talks more about commercialism, but how it affects children's perceptions of reality thanks to television (Disney!), advertising, toys etc. It's an interesting read, at least.
PS When I was a little girl, my mom wouldn't let me watch the smurfs 'cause she said it was sexist how they treated (coddled, protected etc.) smurfette. I heard no end of teasing about it at school....and now from DH!!
I don't mean this in a mean way but I think you're missing the point. It's about nuance. It is possible to acknowledge sexist undertones in film and also "hardly think a two hour Disney movie is going to shape my daughter's sense of self. I plan on leading by example and showing her every day how to be a strong woman with morals and values and enough independence to know that you don't have to rely on a man for happiness."
It's like in the "Peter Pan and racism" post below. Iris and everyone else who watched Peter Pan didn't grow up consciously discounting the experience of Native Americans because they saw the "Why Is a Red Man Red?" song. But that doesn't mean that that song didn't have at best outdated at worst racist undertones. So having a conversation with your kid about how it's actually not cool to tell their Native American friend at school that he's red because he's embarassed is out of line.
Everyone who buys food from "Mammy's" isn't a racist. But pointing out to your kid that the whole "mammy" thing is racist doesn't mean that you think "Mammy's" is responsible for your child's life choices regarding civil liberties.
Larks I see what you're saying about the subliminal messages some of these movies are sending, and I think it's great to use it as an opportunity to have a discussion with your daughter. ?But even if you never really sit down and discuss the gender stereotyping of Disney characters, I don't think you need to worry.
I don't spend a fraction of the time reading your posts as your daughter spends interacting and learning first hand from you...from what I know of you just from these message boards I don't think you need to worry about your daughter being a shrinking violet who yearns to spend most of her time "barefoot and in the kitchen"!
I think there's nothing wrong with letting your kids watch these movies (we all grew up on them, right?) But I don't think it's necessary to go above and beyond sitting down and talking through every single aspect of all these movies. ?I think kids learn through example and by observing those that are closest to them. ?I think most of us are strong, independent women and we are teaching our children to value the same things we value, and hopefully we will be the stronger influence over them than a bunch of Disney movies.
Oh, and I don't think we can ever escape influences from the media...there are all kinds of messages promoted through media all.the.time. ?The only way we could ever escape it is if we lived in a bubble and weren't exposed to television, radio, books, movies, etc. etc...?
So it sounds like we all kind of agree here.
Ok I wasn't allowed to watch tv at all when I was little, only Disney movies (so don't knock my Disney movies dammit!), so I NEVER watched the Smurfs, never watched Saved by the Bell, Fresh Prince, Hey Dude, The Cosby Show, etc. etc...so yeah I'm a freak...I got made fun of ALL THE TIME! ?DH also will quote something, and then pat my head and be all like "oh you're so cute, you have no idea what I'm talking about!" Grrr...
Thank you for saying it much more eloquently than I ever could.
My Etsy Store PIGGY'S PLACE
I agree about having thoughtful discussion with your children and leading by example, but I don't agree about reading into every single movie and TV show that comes on and pausing it to tell my child that she doesn't have to wait around for her prince charming or she doesn't have to "marry up" to have a good life. I feel like she will learn by example. She comes from a long line of strong women.
My Etsy Store PIGGY'S PLACE
I get what you're saying. And I agree with the idea that role models are the most important thing and children learn by example.
But I don't get how wanting to have a conversation with your kid after she watches "Snow White" is "reading into every single movie and TV show." You don't have to read much into "Snow White" to see that there are sexist undertones. And I don't get how wanting to have a conversation with your kid about some movies means pausing every TV show and movie she ever sees in order to analyze them.
I was thinking this too.
Your original question was how to go about having this conversation with your daughter. Now that I think about it, my mom used to make snarky remarks about my Barbies, about Three's Company, etc., and it didn't have to be this big, serious conversation. Her feelings came through loud and clear. What I internalized was her questioning of the predominant culture, even if she didn't spell it out for me in a feminist studies kind of way.
Larks, if anyone can find a funny, yet relevant and interesting way to talk about issues with their kid, you can. Honestly, you will be giving us pointers on the Parenting board in 5-10 years.
I think the most important lesson to take away from Disney movies is this:
If you are evil, don't climb tall things. It never ends well.
This really is so important, and something I will get into in my in depth discussions with Jo.
Jo and I watched "enchanted" the other day. Oh how I laugh at that one. ?