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*bh2720* *mstavish* *emack* *suecadence* re: sleeping (sorry, long)
I've really loved reading the sleeping posts lately because I'm at a loss with DD #2. DD #1 started STTN (unswaddled) at 11 weeks, so we got spoiled by that and don't know what to do with an almost-16 week old who doesn't STTN. We're totally exhausted.
Can you guys help? I'll tell you what we do in the evenings and maybe you can suggest a thing or two to do differently?
We pick up DD from daycare around 4:30 or 5:00. She has a bottle (pumped breastmilk).
Sometime between that time and 8:30 or 9:00 she'll catnap (around 6:30 or 7:00 or 7:30) - maybe a 20 or 30 minute nap - in the swing. We can't keep her awake from the time we get her at daycare and the time we put her to bed, she throws a fit. So we've been keeping that catnap - and actually we take advantage of it by eating our dinner while she naps (though there are plenty of nights we hold her on our lap while eating too).
Around 8:30 or 9:00 we give her a formula bottle with the thought that if she's going to get one formula bottle a day, it might as well be the nighttime bottle since rumor has it formula keeps them fuller longer. We just stopped swaddling her about three nights ago, so we put her in her sleep sack and put her down.
She always gets up at least once - could be 1:00 could be 2:00 or 3:00 or 4:00. This is not consistent/predictable. When she wakes, she cries - she doesn't scream bloody murder, but it's enough of a cry that I am thinking she actually needs something (it's not just a whimper or a eyes-still-shut fitful thing). We give her 4 oz. of pumped breastmilk and she goes back to sleep immediately. (unfortunately for me I do not go back to sleep immediately, I just can't. The worst is when she gets up at 4:00 because my alarm goes off at 5:00 and I can't fall asleep fast enough so I end up just staying up).
After the getting up once a night, she'll sleep a long time. I don't know how long because we have to wake her up at 7:00 to get her to daycare. She doesn't really eat a first-thing-in-the-morning bottle - my guess is that she's still full from the middle-of-the-night bottle.
So please, poke holes in this. Some things I'm considering (but want to get your advice):
1) keep trying to cut out that cat nap around our dinner time - get her to stay awake from 5:00 to 9:00.
2) don't feed her when she gets up in the middle of the night, and maybe don't even pick her up, but maybe try to get her to go back to sleep without eating (sometimes she takes a paci, sometimes not).
3) Put her to bed at 7:00 or 7:30 when she wants to take that cat nap and maybe just wake her to feed her at 9:30 or 10:00 before we go to sleep. That may "top her off" before going back to sleep for the night.
What else do you suggest? The funny thing is, on weekends, if she decides to get up at 1:00 am she'll then sleep until 7:00 or 8:00 or sometimes 9:00 and I'm like - no! I want that stretch of 7 or 8 hours to happen earlier in the schedule!
Wife, Musician, Fed, WW-er, and Mom of three little kids - not necessarily in that order.
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Re: *bh2720* *mstavish* *emack* *suecadence* re: sleeping (sorry, long)
I'm butting in because DS didn't STTN consistently until he was 6 months old.
He typically woke up at 2 and 4 every night. That dropped to just 4 am at around 5ish months, and to no wakings at 6 months. I've read that most 4 month olds can go about 6 hours without needing to eat, and 6 month olds can go 9 hours. DS pretty much followed that pattern.
One thing that helped get DS to sleep the long chunk at night was to make sure that he was up for 3 hours before going to bed. We didn't exactly cut out his evening catnap, but we woke him at 5 pm to make sure that he was up long enough to be able to sleep at night (he goes to bed at 8).
Getting up only once a night really isn't too bad at all, but I'm sure it's frustrating! Once DS hit 4 months old, I would only offer him food after trying other options. Sometimes he would just go back to sleep from sucking on my finger (he didn't take pacifiers). Why not try other options and see what soothes her?
You might try an earlier bedtime too. Maybe not 7:30, as she might think it's a nap, but what about 8? It might be easier to keep her awake instead of letting her catnap, and she might sleep longer stretches at night.
*totally butting in*
my DD is still not STTN at 8mo so take this w/ a grain of salt...
According to Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, you should try to put your DD2 to bed earlier, even as early as 6:30-7pm. Sleep begets sleep and babies tend to sleep later the earlier you put them down. You can try that for a few days and see if it works
You can try to dream feed before you go to bed too
The other thing we are following from HSHHC that seemed to help was to make sure DD did not stay awake for more than 2 hrs b/w naps
GL!
Well, I'm butting in too
Of course my son doesn't STTN either, but his sleeping has gotten much better. I read HSHHC and agree w/pp about putting your daughter to bed earlier. My son goes to bed at 7pm and wakes up at 7am. If he goes down at 8 or 9, he's still up at 7, if not earlier!
So, I would try to eliminate that evening catnap and put her to bed at 7 or 7:30. And I would still feed her in the night b/c she's still quite young and may truly be hungry.
I might try option 3. You may find that she'll sleep through that 9:30/10:00 feeding. Although I am not sure how to keep her from waking up at least once during the night!
We've started putting DS down at 8:00. The length of time he'll sleep varies. Sometime he's up at 1:00, sometimes 2:00, sometimes 3:00. The longest stretch we ever got was 8:00-4:30 (this was of course on a weekend night!). He always wants to eat when he wakes up. Every now and then he'll wake up an hour or two after being fed and I will try to soothe him in the crib or give him a pacifier. He is usually up again to eat at 5:00 or 6:00.
I am exhausted!
I agree with pp on the info from HSHHC that says that a baby really shouldn't be awake for more than about 2 hours. So I would stay away from option #1.The way it was explained to me by my doctor and several books is that if a baby is awake for too long, adrenaline kicks in and then they can't fall asleep--that's when you get the overtired, fussy, cranky baby. (it works the same way for adults--ever felt too tired to sleep?)
And for night time, I would definitely try #2. How often is she eating during the day and how much? Maybe try upping all her meals a bit during the day, or adding another one in.
Up until my brilliant self decided he needs to learn to sleep unswaddled, Warner has been STTN. I use the feeding, wake time, nap time schedule from Babywise and it has worked great for us. Now he is eating 6 times a day and takes anywhere from 5.5 to 6 oz at each meal. (I know that sounds like a lot, but he's a hungry boy...I tried giving him less to help with the spitting up, but he made it pretty clear that he was not happy with that!) He usually wakes up around 6:30 or 7am and then he eats, stays awake for about an hour to and hour and a half and goes to sleep until 10am. And then that 3 hour cycle (from beginning of one meal to the beginning of the next,) repeats itself all day--except for his last 2 bottles at around 7-8pm and 10-10:30pm. He has a short wake time and is usually in back in the crib by 8 or 8:30 and then no wake time after his late bottle.
I also agree about trying the earlier bed time. I would like to do that, but if I did DH would basically never see him awake during the week. And he's doing very well on our current schedule (when swaddled, that is...)
I'm not sure if that was helpful at all for you, but let me know if you have any questions.
I love all the butting in, please keep the suggestions coming!!
Funny - DD #1 STTN at 11 weeks from about 9:30 or 10:00 to about 5:00 or 6:00, then by about 16 wks we had pushed it up to more like 7:00 or 8:00 and she'd sleep to 7:00 am. As a toddler, now, she sleeps 7:30 to 6:30, which of course is great. So I'll definitely try putting DD #2 to bed earlier!
Also, I was wondering why, all of the sudden, since being in daycare, DD #2 hasn't really slept through the night at all (while I was on leave, she'd STTN about every 3-4 nights or so)... and now I'm thinking I need to send more food/bigger bottles to daycare so she eats more during the day. Interesting that waking up at different times may mean she actually really is hungry... perhaps I need to get more food into her.
Maggie had a very early bedtime for a month or two - she was fast asleep by 6PM. But that was when she would sleep until about 5 or 6AM. So I would try option #3 - maybe then you wouldn't have to wake her up in the morning.
We still don't have much of a schedule here. She eats around 9 and I can uaully put her down in the crib by 10:30 and then she sleeps until 1AM, if I am lucky 2AM. AFter that feeding it is random how much she sleeps but never more than 2 hours by ehrself in the crib before I go back in and soothe her to sleep. Have you tried just using the pacifier at the middle of the night wake up? I almost always try that first to see if she'll sleep some more when she only goes 3 hours between feedings at night.
Another fan of HSHHC. It worked great for us. I'd definitely put her to bed earlier. She should drop the third nap soon anyway (they typically do around 4 months or so), so that should help.
We also spent about week giving him the paci first when he woke up in the middle of the night, which pushed the middle of the night feeding later and later, until eventually he slept 11-12 hours between feedings. It was a painful week since it meant getting up twice at horrible hours, but it worked for us.
I've also hear that kids who STTN while you were on maternity leave sometime start waking up again once you go back to work, especially with BF-ing. HTH!
She might just miss you!! I think it's pretty common for breastfed babies to stop STTN when mom goes back to work. My son actually STTN from about 8 weeks to 4 mos old. Then I went back to work and ever since, he has never STTN. I don't think that's the norm though, so don't worry!