Easjer

JenniferL923 · April 2009

You wanted something to talk about?

This article annoyed me. I get that its a frame of reference but if you can't live on $250K a year, you have a problem. It's called making cutbacks. It's called making sacrifices. After taxes, $250K/yr comes out to about $450/day. Boohoo.

https://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/106934/Wealth-Less-Effect-Earning-Well-Feeling-Otherwise

pmarie33 · April 2009

I am not from TX.

easjer05 · April 2009

The conservative in me is shaking my head and asking exactly what they thought was going to happen when they elected Obama. He wasn't quiet about his plans for higher taxes on those brackets to fund the social welfare programs.

I agree with you that they can certainly afford cutbacks somewhere. I would die to have $1200 extra after bills at the end of the month. True enough that $250K isn't millionaire territory and their kids will have a harder time getting financial aid - but hey, that is what scholarships and student loans are for, you know?

I can't help but roll my eyes at 'mortgage, second mortgage, piece of land and family car' - there is some stuff that was either poor financial planning or that can go.

I was surprised I didn't see the cost of living comparisons. $250k in Conneticut or NY is going to be vastly different than $250K in most of Texas. That would worry me if I were in that bracket in certain areas.

easjer05 · April 2009

pmarie33:
I am not from TX.

We can't all be though.

In some ways that is sad.

But then Rick Perry will open his mouth about something ridiculous like secession and you can be very glad about it.

JenniferL923 · April 2009

easjer05:

pmarie33:
I am not from TX.

We can't all be though.

In some ways that is sad.

But then Rick Perry will open his mouth about something ridiculous like secession and you can be very glad about it.

I am sad P is not from TX. But easjer is wise.....sometimes you don't want to be.

JenniferL923 · April 2009

You have a good point about COL.

I do think that no matter what area you end up living in--you should know your limits and plan accordingly. I'm a firm believer in you make your bed, now you have to lie in it. Don't get in over your head, don't take out a bigger mortgage than you can afford. And for God's sake, prioritize.

MrsO1111 · April 2009

Well....I totally see where the optometrist family is coming from. $250k for a family of four, for instance, may not really be that much money. Especially, as you point out, eas, in large cities on the East/West coasts. We're lucky here in the South in that respect. $250k is a nice living 'round these parts (and believe me, Sevierville, home of the optometrist, is not the most expensive place around...I've been there -- nice, but not NYC expensive). He does seem to have lived a bit large w/ the second mortgage and all, but who knows what he took that out for based on the article.

Here's my take -- student loan debt, private school tuition for 2 kids (which some places is a necessity, not a luxury -- or even w/out that cost -- saving for children's education or your retirement), one car note, and one mortgage on a "normal" home (est. $2k/month based on my personal experience) -- those things add up. That example would be around $55k in my case, and I live in a small town in the South. We haven't even started talking about electric, water, phone, tv, internet, cell phones, gas, food, clothes, medical expenses, a second vehicle, any luxuries at all.....you get the idea.

That's also before you even worry about a fluctuating annual income "on paper" vs what actually comes home to pay bills in cash if you're running a small business as a partnership or S corp or even a P.A.-type entity. That's where the gov't will really get you. Of course, you can pay double tax on everything if you want to keep money in a C corp and not have it pass through to you annually. But then you'll be one of those evil big corporate types and we know how people like to talk about taxing them. Any way you try to plan, you're screwed.

So the question is, should a person have to work 50-60 hours a week as a professional and not be able to have a nice family vacation once or twice a year at age 50? Or not be able to retire ever? Of course everyone in the world could cut back and live in small houses, drive inexpensive cars, never vacation, etc., but that's not exactly the American dream. At least it's not in my opinion....

Anyway, sorry for the vent, can you tell I'm a tax nerd? Geeked

MrsO1111 · April 2009

Jennifer*L*923:

You have a good point about COL.

I do think that no matter what area you end up living in--you should know your limits and plan accordingly. I'm a firm believer in you make your bed, now you have to lie in it. Don't get in over your head, don't take out a bigger mortgage than you can afford. And for God's sake, prioritize.

Now THIS I agree with. Wholeheartedly!

Assembly_Reqd · April 2009

Yeah, that article really lit my fire. I was crying crocodile tears for those poor 250k a year folks. What a shame!

easjer05 · April 2009

Agree 100%.

I am a fan of personal responsibility. You should have some sort of plan, and try not to accrue too much debt.

But I'm also the b!tchy one who will not subsidize my children's college educations. I mean, we'll certainly help out, but my experience working in a college for 5 years showed me that on the whole, kids who had to pay for it themselves worked harder than kids whose parents paid the tab. Not always, certainly, but generally speaking - they took it seriously when they had to maintain a scholarship or balance work and school.

Assembly_Reqd · April 2009

easjer05:

The conservative in me is shaking my head and asking exactly what they thought was going to happen when they elected Obama. He wasn't quiet about his plans for higher taxes on those brackets to fund the social welfare programs.

FWIW I don't think a majority of the 250k-ers voted for Obama.

JenniferL923 · April 2009

MrsO1111:

Well....I totally see where the optometrist family is coming from. $250k for a family of four, for instance, may not really be that much money. Especially, as you point out, eas, in large cities on the East/West coasts. We're lucky here in the South in that respect. $250k is a nice living 'round these parts (and believe me, Sevierville, home of the optometrist, is not the most expensive place around...I've been there -- nice, but not NYC expensive). He does seem to have lived a bit large w/ the second mortgage and all, but who knows what he took that out for based on the article.

Here's my take -- student loan debt, private school tuition for 2 kids (which some places is a necessity, not a luxury -- or even w/out that cost -- saving for children's education or your retirement), one car note, and one mortgage on a "normal" home (est. $2k/month based on my personal experience) -- those things add up. That example would be around $55k in my case, and I live in a small town in the South. We haven't even started talking about electric, water, phone, tv, internet, cell phones, gas, food, clothes, medical expenses, a second vehicle, any luxuries at all.....you get the idea.

That's also before you even worry about a fluctuating annual income "on paper" vs what actually comes home to pay bills in cash if you're running a small business as a partnership or S corp or even a P.A.-type entity. That's where the gov't will really get you. Of course, you can pay double tax on everything if you want to keep money in a C corp and not have it pass through to you annually. But then you'll be one of those evil big corporate types and we know how people like to talk about taxing them. Any way you try to plan, you're screwed.

So the question is, should a person have to work 50-60 hours a week as a professional and not be able to have a nice family vacation once or twice a year at age 50? Or not be able to retire ever? Of course everyone in the world could cut back and live in small houses, drive inexpensive cars, never vacation, etc., but that's not exactly the American dream. At least it's not in my opinion....

Anyway, sorry for the vent, can you tell I'm a tax nerd?

I think there are two sets of people, one of them bugs me and one of them doesn't. The ones that as you put it "pursue the American dream", struggle to pay the bills, and then COMPLAIN about the choices they've made and the place they've landed themselves and then there are those who suck it up and deal with the cards they are dealt. I will exclude those that have been taken advantage of in their pursuit of the dream. I still feel though that you shouldn't rely on anyone but yourself for your financial situation. DH and I fully expect that there won't be SSI to live on when we got older, so we're making plans now.

Obama was very up front with his stance on taxes. I'm not sure if people listened though, which I guess is why everyone's sh!tting their pants now.

I was simply annoyed at the first family in the article, so I'll admit I stopped reading.

easjer05 · April 2009

Assembly_Reqd:
easjer05:

The conservative in me is shaking my head and asking exactly what they thought was going to happen when they elected Obama. He wasn't quiet about his plans for higher taxes on those brackets to fund the social welfare programs.

FWIW I don't think a majority of the 250k-ers voted for Obama.

The article mentioned one subject in particular who said he voted for Obama but was uncertain about now. That's what made me go that direction.

Assembly_Reqd · April 2009

easjer05:
Assembly_Reqd:
easjer05:

The conservative in me is shaking my head and asking exactly what they thought was going to happen when they elected Obama. He wasn't quiet about his plans for higher taxes on those brackets to fund the social welfare programs.

FWIW I don't think a majority of the 250k-ers voted for Obama.

The article mentioned one subject in particular who said he voted for Obama but was uncertain about now. That's what made me go that direction.

ahhhh.....disculpame!

JenniferL923 · April 2009

easjer05:
Assembly_Reqd:
easjer05:

The conservative in me is shaking my head and asking exactly what they thought was going to happen when they elected Obama. He wasn't quiet about his plans for higher taxes on those brackets to fund the social welfare programs.

FWIW I don't think a majority of the 250k-ers voted for Obama.

The article mentioned one subject in particular who said he voted for Obama but was uncertain about now. That's what made me go that direction.

Yup, he said that was the ONE thing he didn't agree with. I, too, shook my head as that was the big thing I didn't agree with so I couldn't bring myself to vote for him. I am dreading the fallout of the capital gains tax repeal. Wait, or has that gone through yet?

easjer05 · April 2009

Jennifer*L*923:
I still feel though that you shouldn't rely on anyone but yourself for your financial situation. DH and I fully expect that there won't be SSI to live on when we got older, so we're making plans now.

Obama was very up front with his stance on taxes. I'm not sure if people listened though, which I guess is why everyone's sh!tting their pants now.

This worries me a lot. We pay into TRS (Teacher's Retirement System in Texas), but that's about it. We just don't have a lot left over. We've not been counting on SSI, but if the State of Texas goes bankrupt, we're sort of screwed. We're working now to pay off debt and get more in savings (our tax return was split in half between those two objectives, without any other treat), and have hired a financial planner to help with retirement/savings issues.

But I still start sweating when I think about it.

And the second paragraph, yeah. Exactly. I credit Obama for no bait and switch, but I wondered why people weren't cluing into that before the election. Maybe it's just that the economy is so much worse that they are more adversely affected now?

JenniferL923 · April 2009

Oh it worries me too. I try not to think about it on a day to day basis. ::bites lip::

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