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Working Moms
AlisaS
member
What does "working by choice" mean?
AlisaS
member
in Working Moms
Does it mean you could live on your DH's salary if you wanted to? Does it mean your DH wants you to be a SAHM but you chose to work? Does it mean you choose to work because you love your job?
I am totally confused by what "by choice" means.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: What does "working by choice" mean?
Are you honestly confused by this?
And what do you do to save lives each day???
Sorry not to answer...I think "working by choice" has a different definition for everyone. A friend of mine is going to stay home until her children go to school but the quality of life they will have until and I think after then is not what I would want. I think it is so much different for everyone.
When it is not in someone's heart to go to work and not spend the time with their children...that is when someone is not "working by choice"...at least how I would define it.
I would say that working by choice is when a person loves their career, feels like they are putting their children in a great environment while they are at work...finds a happy balance between the two...just my opinion.
What type of physician are you?
So would a man who didn't like his job, not be working by choice? If you don't want to quit work to be a SAH parent but just want to not work, is that by choice? If you have no kids is that different? If you have to work because you need to financially, what is your alternative choice? Homelessness? Depending on gov't handouts?
I think it is such a weird question.
I am a psychiatrist.
I think it gets mentioned because there are so many posts asking when does it get easier, tips to make life easier, dealing with guilt, wishing you could work part-time...its nice once in a while to remember that some women do love their jobs and wouldn't give it up.
Being a working mom is hard, especially that first year. That's why I'm taking this year off work, because I did not love my job and my income is not required for our lifestyle right now. So when I start job-hunting again it will be because I want to, not because I have to.
Charlotte Ella 07.16.10
Emmeline Grace 03.27.13
Agreed.
Heheee... so you do save lives. That's cool.
I am not sure I totally get it, either. I know there are women who "only" work because of their family finances. Beyond that, though, it gets muddled.
I work because I am a worker, I love the law, and I want to provide a good example for my children. It is very important for me that they never feel overly constrained by gender roles.
I also like the money
It seems like an artificial question to me because yes, I work and I make substantially more money than my dh, so my salary certainly pays the bills. But I could probably "choose" to stay home if we made some very severe lifestyle changes: moved, saved less for retirement, skrimped in other areas, etc.
When I first came back to work, I felt slightly guilty about not staying home with ds. At that point, it made me feel better that I "have to" work. But once I got back into the swing of things, I remembered that I like working, I like my job, and I feel better and more like myself when I'm not home with the baby all day every day. It's got to be hard to hate your job and not want to work, but still have to do it.
Alysa - I'm glad that you posted. I went home yesterday thinking about the "mommy guilt" post and what it is and what it all means. It is tough to hear that women have mommy guilt and then complain about their student loans not realizing that by them working they could essentially eliminate student loan debt for their children...it all goes full circle. Anyway, about the "working by choice" I don't overthink it. Call me crazy but after college I did this wild thing and I got a job. I get up every single day and go to work and I don't think about it. I don't know if I love my job or don't like it because it is work. Men are defined by their careers. Women are defined by their family and life outside their careers (I believe). Even if you're a SAHM your working your a** off every single day. So either I'm a working mom at an office or a SAHM, I'm working every day because that is how the world is and I accept it for what it is.
I guess I don't get the "I work by choice" thing because in my world, working is what people do. It isn't a choice, people work because in the world, people work. Men and women. All the women in my family have careers. It's just life. Not because they feel they "have to". And so I have never felt, and most of my friends have never felt, that working was some big decision or felt massive guilt about sending kids to daycare.
So I find it odd when women complain that they "have to work". Yep, most people have to work. And women have fought long and hard for the right to equality which is a topic for another post...But, when women complain that they HAVE to work, I find it a wee bit offensive because not so long ago, women didn't have any options.
There has to be some happy medium where men and women don't have to be defined by either/or parenthood/careers. And where the double standard doesn't exist.
Because - from the post from yesterday - no secretary would ever tell a man that after their child was born "They won't want to work" and few men would feel that they would need to respond "I have to, I have no choice".
I also agree with you Alisa--I have found it extremely annoying when I hear women complain about "having" to work, as in, "My DH doesn't make enough money for me to stay home! Wahhhh!" I hate those kinds of discussions because it degrades women and makes it seem like the only possible option is men work/women SAH.
How about compromising as a family, and everyone is happy? Making choices that are best for everyone, including your children, and making sacrifices as parents. For us, the minute we had our first child, our priority was having a work/life balance that worked for US, not anyone else.
I get the impression that you just don't agree with a woman's decision to forget a career and stay home to raise her children. I think that is what this is really all about. Some women feel like they have to work vs. they are going to work each day to better the quality of life for their families.
You brought up the point of "not so long ago women didn't have the choice to go out and work"...well now it is just the opposite. Many women do not have the choice to stay home to raise a family. I don't see how that is much better than a woman being forced to stay home when she desired a career.
It is sad and I feel bad for those women, myself included, who would gladly give up my very expensive education and career for my husband to have a much better salary so that I could be the one taking our children to the zoo, teaching them how to talk, cooking breakfast each day, etc.
I guess to some that is not a very valuable way to live.
i think that's the point. when one says "i HAVE to work, and would sah if i could," it perpetuates the patriarchal notion that a woman's place is in the home. women have no real skills except being a mother and being "domesticated."
if you want to sah bc "it's the best decision for your family," you're conceding to that notion. whether that's right or wrong is another matter. who knows, maybe the traditionalists have it right. maybe the liberalists, who knows...
but to prove the inequities, alisa pointed out that you will never hear a man apologize that he "HAS to work and would sah if he could." that's just fundamentally unfair.
More irony. You tell me I am being judgemental about women choosing to be SAHMs and then basically say that working mothers who actually LIKE to work have their priorities screwed up because they SHOULD want to be at home, baking cookies for their kids and taking them to the zoo.
No one says men have their priorities screwed up because they have an enjoyable, fulfilling and possibly lucrative career.
Thanks for putting it this way Daisy.
No one is attacking your desire to be a SAHM. We are talking about the double standard.
Alisa, There is no irony here. Also, I did not tell you that you had the wrong priorities. I tried to point out that people have different priorities.
I do find it amazing that you have so much computer time in between all of the lives you are saving! (I am really trying to be funny here so I hope you see the humor)
Just for the record, I don't see at all where she says those should be your priorities. She's just saying that that's what she wants to be doing.
I'm having a hard time seeing why one person wanting to stay home perpetuates the idea that all women have no value outside the home. I get that there are inequities, but I don't think that making all women work outside the home is the answer.
But then again, no one seriously suggested or assumed that I would stay home after the baby, and my husband and I seriously discussed him being a stay at home dad, so maybe I'm just coming from a different perspective here.
i agree, it's a total societal problem. maybe i'm speaking too much in generalities, but to explain: if a woman decides to sah for her family, at some level, she is ascribing to the traditionalist thinking that her family is better off with a sahm. it is what it is and there's no denying it. but if you have a whole generation of women thinking this way, then you have the polar opposite thinking: if women should or desire to be sahms, then men should dominate the workforce. leading of course, to why women get paid 33% less than men on avg.
i do agree that making all women work outside the home is also not the answer.... have you read "freakanomics?" there's an interesting chapter on sahm v. wm and how the stats show that kids of sahm do not fare that much better than their counterparts. it suggests that the sahm v. wm debate is a societal myth.
Statement from random person: Man, I can't believe you want to work while your babies are small.
Working mother's response: Don't you think I would if I could? My husband doesn't make enough money, the economy sucks, and I HAVE to work.
What response means: I agree with you - I don't think it is OK for me to work with babies either!
I understand the argument, and I guess I can agree on a societal level. I always have problems with these kind of arguments because where do you draw the line between what's best for society and what's best for yourself? If you really want to be at home with your kids, should you go work anyhow in order not to play into the "traditional" thinking? I would hope that we will eventually get to the point where one does what one thinks is best, without having to consider the societal impact.
I'm thinking also of things like changing your name at marriage or division of household duties by traditional gender lines. In our house, we do split up cleaning and laundry, but my husband does the day-to-day banking and yard work and I do the cooking, for example. We could both do any of it, but I like cooking and he likes yard work and reading books about investing. It bugs me sometimes that we're so "traditional" but not enough to want to deal with the banking or to make my husband cook.
I'll have to read freakanomics.
yeah, it totally sucks and def'ly a grey area.
re gender roles: u might find this interesting. one of my former clients shared the same last name: e.g. Smith-Jones. the husband actually changed his name to Smith-Jones. how modern is that?Hey - I told my husband I would do dishes for life if he would take care of the bills. It is not about value judgments based on SAHM vs WM. It is the double standard and the fact that there are so many posts where women complain that people beliitle them for being working mothers...and then they go on the agree with their sentiments.
I've thought about this as I've been reading the posts.
I think that mommy guilt is because women have a stronger need to be with their children more often than men do. Women have a different bond as mothers than fathers do. Thats why women have guilt & fathers might not.
Work by choice is, "we could afford to live if I SAH but I choose to go to work." That can be for any reason in the world. It could be because you can't see yourself sitting home all day or doing Mommy Yoga. It could be because you LOVE your job. It could be because you like to be able to buy your child diamond encrusted pacifiers. Whatever the reason some people choose & can choose to work while others cannot. Others NEED to work to pay the bills & feed their family. Really, it's that simple.
I think it is a stupid use of the word choice. Yes it usually means can you survive financially without it - which automatically assumes we'd all prefer to be SAHMs.?
No offence to SAHMs, its the most stressful and boring job I ever did being a SAHM for over a year. I take my hat off to you whether you want to be doing or not.
BUT - thnk about it this way - if we all wanted to spend all day looking after kids we'd all be childcare workers and kindy teachers wouldn't we? Instead of being doctors and lawyers and so on. ?It doesn't surprise me in the least that every professional woman I know can't wait to get back to work after giving birth - otherwise I'd really wonder why she ever gave up the opportunity of being a nanny instead. Much cheaper education and hours to suit.
So yeah I worked by choice - the choice to be a sane and happy person v being a bored and isolated SAHM. I don't know that I call that a choice though.?