Sleep advice please! Long.
biokitty42
member
Long story short: LO napped only in my arms for 8.5 months, and we had also been co-sleeping at night for 5.5 months (ever since we stopped swaddling, she stopped sleeping on her own). She woke multiple times at night, which fragmented my sleep, but I was right there and able to settle her relatively quickly. Two weeks ago we transitioned her to the crib by basically putting her in drowsy, then staying and comforting her until she fell asleep. We have had some success, especially at first, but have hit a wall with other issues.
She will now go down in her crib with little trouble, but we have big trouble with wakings. When I was holding her for naps, she was doing two 1.5 hours naps a day. In her crib, she does two 30-40 minute naps, and wakes exhausted and miserable. That is problem number one.
At night, she wakes 4-5 times, and we try to let her settle on her own, but it almost always escalates to screaming. She just sits up in the crib over and over, and tries to stand up. One wake up each night typically lasts over an hour. Others just require a pacifier replacement, laying her back down, rolling her onto her side, and some shushing for ten minutes.
I am trying to avoid nursing her at all wake ups because she will happily go 4 hours without nursing during the day, so it doesn't seem like she should need to eat every two hours at night, right? Often she will scream at DH until he gives up and I go in to nurse, but then she passes out as soon as she latches, like she just wanted the comfort of being picked up and nursed. When she was still swaddled at 3 months, she was nursing 0-1 times a night.
She has also started waking earlier and earlier. Bedtime is 7 or 7:30, and she used to sleep until 6:30 or 7. Then it was 6:15, then 6, and she is currently waking at 5:30. That means it's four hours of awake time until her first nap at 9:30, which is too much awake time.
Last night, I got less than 5 hours of sleep, and she got less than 9. This isn't good for either of us. We are exhausted. I am not opposed to sleep training, but I just don't know where to even begin. I'm overwhelmed by all the information out there: that nine months is a bad time for sleep training because of pulling up, growth spurt, separation anxiety, etc., that I should get rid of her pacifiers if I don't want to keep replacing them, that I can successfully sleep train without taking away pacifiers, that she's hungry and needs to nurse, that she can go all night without nursing at this age, and on and on.
I am honestly getting desperate. We are exhausted. I find myself losing my patience with her more and more and having to walk away to just calm down, which makes me feel like the worst mom ever. I cried feeding her last night, I cried when she woke up; I am terrified of hearing her wake from her naps. I feel so bad for her because I know she is tired and miserable, too. I'm sorry this is so long, but I need advice.
Re: Sleep advice please! Long.
In your situation, I would bite the bullet and hire a GOOD (do your research) sleep coach. It's pricey, but from friends' experiences, it's worth it. We have always said that if we get to the point where it is really untenable to continue and we can't seem to make any progress that we'll do it. We haven't reached that point yet, but assuming you think you've exhausted everything and are getting pretty desperate, I would do it.
If you're looking for recommendations, I will say that we have used Kim West's Good Night, Sleep Tight methods with some success. Still not perfect, but much better than it used to be.
Thank you so much for the suggestions, everyone! I hope I didn't come off as too crazed in my OP; sleep deprivation is no joke. We do have room-darkening curtains and a white noise machine, and those definitely helped in the beginning. I think we will give this another few days to see if things get worse or better, and then re-evaluate our options.
Maybe we just need to give the transition more time and hope her naps will lengthen naturally. I will also give rocking her back to sleep mid-nap a try and see how that works out. I had never heard of a sleep coach before, so we may look into that if things don't improve. I really appreciate everyone's advice!
Ok - so I've been through sleep hell and actually went to children's for a sleep study consultation and so when I read your post I see a few things pop out at me.
1) the settling easily and going to sleep at the start of the night - explain - how is LO going down? Do you have a routine- does it end with LO drowsy but awake alone in the crib to sleep? (You want to make sure you aren't giving him a sleep association that they do not have when they wake and you aren't there)
2) The BIGGEST thing that popped out to me is the - LO wakes at 5:30 and its 4 hours until nap time at 9:30. I would ditch "times" for awhile and go off the time LO wakes up - so if LO wakes at 5:30 that may mean at 7:30 is first nap time. It sounds like you are at home so that should work. (I understand if you are using daycare that minght not work well) My little girl is 10 months and the sleep specialist said 1.5 - 2 hours after first wake up is good for nap (that stretches if you are closer to a year that might be 2-3 hours). Regaurdless overtired kids DO NOT SLEEP WELL.
3) Our biggest issue was she doesn't nap at daycare - though this is different for you - the result is the same. SHe would take 2 20 minute naps at school ALL DAY - luckily I pick her up at 3:30 and the Specialist said - get her down immediately and make sure she is up at 5 - NO LATER. I swear - I didn't hold any hope that it would work - but ultimatly thats exactly what has worked. She still only sleeps 30 - 40 minutes each nap at daycare (roughly 1 every 3 hours so 2 naps for the day there) and then comes home and takes a 30 - 60 minute nap ending at 5pm (I normally have to wake her up
) and then I adjust bed time as needed - if she only got 1.5 hours of sleep bedtime is closer to 7 / 7:30 if she got closer to 2 - 3 hours of sleep that day then bedtime is closer to 8/8:30. She sleeps until 4am - eats (nto sure if she's eating really at this point or just waking) and then goes back down for 2 - 4 hours then gets up for the day.
Its rough and when you are sleep deprived its that much harder. We did also stop nursing to sleep - so we bath, diaper, nurse.. then lotion - jammies - bed. She's awake but sleepy when she goes down. Then at night if she wakes I leave her (I check her on the video monitor and make sure she has binkies and lovey) if she CRIES for more then ten mins I do a check.
Sleep specialist said even 6 - 8 wakings is NORMAL for a kid at 9-11 months but getting them to know how to settle themselves was critical at this age. She said by a year they shouldn't be waking more then 1 - 2 times a night and shoudl not need help from you (Unless they still need a night feed)
Also, I would ditch the staying and soothing until she falls asleep at night - it's just as bad as rocking her. If she needs to soothe her to sleep at bedtime, she's going to need it all night long. She needs to be awake and alone in her crib to learn to self soothe. She may cry for awhile for a couple days, but if you are consistent, it should not take longer than 3-5 days. You just need to pick a method and stick with it.
BFP #1: 10-25-11, MC: 11-1-11 @ 5w5d
BFP#2: 12-29-11, DS born September 2012
TFAS: July 2014, BFP#3: 12-29-14, EDD 9-9-15
BFP #1: 10-25-11, MC: 11-1-11 @ 5w5d
BFP#2: 12-29-11, DS born September 2012
TFAS: July 2014, BFP#3: 12-29-14, EDD 9-9-15
She might want to eat or your comfort, hence the nighttime nursing. She's going through a lot of development right now, and she may NEED you. She might also be hungry if she's going 4 hours without food during the day. There's so much to look at and so much to do during the day..why would she want to stop to eat?
Lastly, can you wear her in a baby carrier during her naps?
Maybe take a deep breath and remember that your baby is only asking for what they need. See if there are ways to meet her halfway so you can all get some more sleep!
I appreciate all the advice that others have given. I recently ordered the No Cry Sleep Solution at the recommendation of a friend. I hope that helps. Good luck to you and your family! We'll get through this.
The only tips I have are I give him a big bottle before he goes down. I also wait until he is drowsy to put him down too then I set his noise machine and put out all the lights. My baby is a ninja and if you even use the bathroom adjacent to his room he is up. So no night lights or anything in his room distracting at all.
Hang in there, no sleeping is torturous but you are doing a great job! She will get it soon
I only recently got DS to nap in his crib and at first he only slept 35-45 min. but instead of running in and rescuing him when he woke, I left him and 9 out of 10 times, after 15-20 min. he put himself back to sleep. He would wake upset but his "complaining" would become less urgent. Now he rarely wakes and naps 1-1.5 hrs, 2 times a day. I agree with the others who suggested you abandon rigid nap times and put him down 2 hours after he wakes.
Nights are still complicated for me. After bed-sharing for too long (because that wasn't working either) I've gotten him to sleep in his crib but putting him down would take 1+ hours. Not letting him get too over-tired and improving his naps helped dramatically. Now he goes down, usually on his own, after 15-20 min. Great except he often wakes after 45 min. (not able to get himself into a deep sleep) and then wakes every 1.5-3 hrs. and ends up in bed with me nursing. Basically he is being rewarded for waking by getting to sleep with mommy and nurse. So many bad, mixed signals.
Sleep deprivation IS no joke. After more than 13 months of severely fragmented sleep, my husband and I are ready to kill each other. Not to mention how unhealthy it is for my son. He only gets 8-10 hours of broken sleep per night. Perpetuating our situation is not good for anyone.
With that mindset, I let him CIO last night and, though it was pure torture, he slept better last night than he has in a very long time. His naps weren't great yesterday, so I put him down earlier than normal (another great suggestion, I've been ignoring). He went right to sleep but woke up screaming 40 min. later. I went to him and he was inconsolable. Now what? I was already feeling defeated. I picked him up, patted, shushed, took him out of his crib, offered a bottle (trying to nurse less). No one thing seemed to work but eventually he calmed a bit. I put him back in the crib and he was not happy. I walked away and decided I would do timed check-ins. As with naps, initially he was very upset but over time, he calmed down. As it turns out, check-ins would only make him more upset, so I abandoned them. I kept the video monitor at my side and for over one hour he cried on-and-off. His crying would escalate and then he would calm and lie down. I was conflicted. I didn't want to let it go on any longer but also didn't his crying to be in vain. After 2 hours of wake time, I went in with a bottle. I wound up taking him out of the crib to feed him because he wouldn't take it any other way. He took the bottle, I put him back in his crib with nearly no fight, I stayed with him and he went right to sleep. The point to this very long tale is, after the 2 hour episode, he slept 4 hours straight. He woke crying but not hysterical, just letting me know he was up. I did NOT respond to him and after 15-20 min, he put himself back to sleep and slept another 4 hours till 7am.
The CIO last night was awful and I couldn't sleep because I had such bad mommy guilt. This was only one night but maybe (fingers crossed) it wasn't in vain. He has NEVER gone all night without nursing (usually nurses 3-5 times per night).
So sorry for the novel. The best advice I can offer is focus on correcting the situation now because toddlers are more stubborn and it only gets harder for both of you. Easier said than done, trust me I know. I read so much about how healthy bed-sharing is, that I couldn't commit to making a change. I absolutely agree that bed-sharing can be healthy, if it is working for all parties involved. In my case, it wasn't working for anyone. I know he is crying to protest the change. Much like he cries when I tell him no or take something away from him. I have to keep reminding myself of this.
I desperately hope I am headed in the right direction and that you find something that works for you and your family. Sleep training is way harder than labor. I've joked (or not) that I would rather go through labor nightly than have to deal with this.
Thanks for your response and suggestions. I felt compelled to let you know that we've had a couple of good nights. I've been starting earlier, he's been putting himself to sleep and sleeping longer stretches. He's still waking up crying repeatedly but puts himself back to sleep, sometimes within a minute or 2. Last night he didn't wake after 40-45 min. (small triumph) and got 11 hours of sleep (record). I've only nursed him 1 time in the MOTN over the last 3 nights.
Now if only I could get some sleep. I think I need sleep training.
My LO slept through the night from 3 mos. to 6 mos. and then started waking up once a night. Naps and bedtime were all over the place regardless of what we tried. Since reading the book 2 weeks ago, we've unraveled some mysteries, including why she would want to take a "nap" at 5:30 pm, wake up at 6:30 pm, and then be ready to go to sleep again before we could even do dinner and a bath—she was trying to go to bed for the night, and the 6:30 pm wakeup was essentially a "MOTN" wakeup!
Now, her naps are longer; her bedtime is earlier; on great days it takes 5 mins. to put her down, on "bad" ones when we miss the cycle there's no guesswork as to when the next best time to try will be; her sleep schedule is like clockwork most days and can be measured in multiples of 90 minutes.
The author also says that trying to sleep train a sleep-deprived baby is pointless because the baby wants to sleep, but he or she is sooo overtired in general that CIO and the like just pile frustration and fatigue on top of frustration and fatigue. She recommends resolving the sleep deprivation first before trying any sleep training.
Definitely worth a shot! Good luck!
I clicked on this on my way to the toddler board but wanted to say that my 13 month old is now starting to be able to settle himself back to sleep upon waking. If he doesn't, I nurse him. I tried Ferber, it didn't work and so I am waiting it out. A PP said that it only gets worse, but I very much disagree. Babies will sleep through when they're ready. It may take longer than you want it too, but it will happen. Try feeding MORE during the day so baby is LESS hungry at night. You are probably making things worse by not being consistent in your responses (feed one time, let baby cry the other times). Good luck. I know sleep deprivation is so hard, but it will get better.