Stay at Home Moms

Cry it out

I'm trying to find a way to discuss this without it becoming a CIO debate or flame war. CIO posts are popping up on my BMB already. Yep, we're talking babies from 2-4 weeks old whose moms want to let them CIO. They either don't want baby to be spoiled or they don't want to spend all day holding the baby because then they can't get anything done.

I wonder if more pregnancy books need to also address the newborn stage, maybe the first 4 months so that more women are prepared for the overwhelming demand of their newborns. Does the desire to CIO so young come from lack of knowledge about meeting baby's needs and their inability to self soothe? It seems common sense to me that a baby who has spent 9 months floating in a warm and somewhat loud cocoon might need a little help adjusting to the big cold outside world. That is a HUGE change for them.

I fully get that some newborns require more attention than others. I had one of those newborns. But there seems to be the thought that holding, snuggling, soothing is not a basic need babies need to have met. "But he just ate, burped and has a dry diaper. He doesn't need anything." Being close to mom/dad IS a need. 

Thoughts?  


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Re: Cry it out

  • I do not know if this is an irrational thought, but if  C and J were closer to full term I might let them CIO, but right now I cant do it. I worry about their lung capacity. They are still catching up in development. Hearing them cry kills me at the same time I celebrate hearing them cry It lets me know they need something but they are still ok. i do not care about spoiling them, they have 17 years of me being strict and setting boundaries.  I have no idea or not if this makes sense, but at least for the first 6 months I will be pretty much at their beckon call and don't feel bad for doing so.
    Blessed with double the love. C and J born May 2013
  • imageEmmakins87:
    I do not know if this is an irrational thought, but if  C and J were closer to full term I might let them CIO, but right now I cant do it. I worry about their lung capacity. They are still catching up in development. Hearing them cry kills me at the same time I celebrate hearing them cry It lets me know they need something but they are still ok. i do not care about spoiling them, they have 17 years of me being strict and setting boundaries.  I have no idea or not if this makes sense, but at least for the first 6 months I will be pretty much at their beckon call and don't feel bad for doing so.

    The thing for me is that if you just need to pee, take a quick shower, make a sandwich, etc. your baby will be fine if they cry while you do something quick. It's not always possible to pick them up and hold them 24/7. It's just the thought that soothing your baby isn't a basic need that I can quite understand where it comes from.

     


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  • I support CIO for older babies, but 2 weeks is too early. I think there are a lot of things going on that make new parents go to this. No one ever told me that my new baby would never be put down happily in those first weeks. I was surprised when I couldn't set her down without the crying. It's not really a common sense thing if you haven't been around babies much (at least not for me). I didn't go into it expecting to hold her all.the.damn.time. New parents also lack confidence and then get a ton if crazy advice from well meaning parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. It's so easy to think that maybe these people with experience know what they are talking about, especially in the early, sleep deprived, unsure of yourself days. I'm sure there are other factors, but these are just my thoughts on it.

     

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    C  7.16.2008 | L  11.12.2010 | A  3.18.2013

     

  • imageJenS2203:

    I support CIO for older babies, but 2 weeks is too early. I think there are a lot of things going on that make new parents go to this. No one ever told me that my new baby would never be put down happily in those first weeks. I was surprised when I couldn't set her down without the crying. It's not really a common sense thing if you haven't been around babies much (at least not for me). I didn't go into it expecting to hold her all.the.damn.time. New parents also lack confidence and then get a ton if crazy advice from well meaning parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. It's so easy to think that maybe these people with experience know what they are talking about, especially in the early, sleep deprived, unsure of yourself days. I'm sure there are other factors, but these are just my thoughts on it.

     

    Very true about the older generations. My own mom kept telling me I was going to spoil him and that he had already learned to manipulate me. I kept saying, he's a week old...I don't think he has the cognitive ability to  do that.


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  • imageQueSyrah:

    imageEmmakins87:
    I do not know if this is an irrational thought, but if  C and J were closer to full term I might let them CIO, but right now I cant do it. I worry about their lung capacity. They are still catching up in development. Hearing them cry kills me at the same time I celebrate hearing them cry It lets me know they need something but they are still ok. i do not care about spoiling them, they have 17 years of me being strict and setting boundaries.  I have no idea or not if this makes sense, but at least for the first 6 months I will be pretty much at their beckon call and don't feel bad for doing so.

    The thing for me is that if you just need to pee, take a quick shower, make a sandwich, etc. your baby will be fine if they cry while you do something quick. It's not always possible to pick them up and hold them 24/7. It's just the thought that soothing your baby isn't a basic need that I can quite understand where it comes from.

     

    I agree with this completely. I think new parents get an all or nothing sort of view. You either have to hold the baby and do nothing else or cry it out completely. It is ok to scarf down your dinner while baby cries, but expect to comfort the baby right after. I don't see letting baby cry while you pee as harmful. I've got two other kids that need me too. Sometimes Andrew has to cry for a few minutes while I put food in front of them. It is a balancing act.

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    C  7.16.2008 | L  11.12.2010 | A  3.18.2013

     

  • Lord, I loved holding DD all day. It's why my house was never clean! Some people are so weird.
  • IMO situations like this stem from a few things.  First, I think people are often (understandably) completely overwhelmed and don't know what to do and feel like this is going to be their life forever.  Second, they have bad info (things like it's okay to CIO right from the beginning, not wanting to spoil baby, etc.).  And third, they don't have any understanding of what's normal for baby sleep.  

     I do think more books should address the topic properly, but also I think it's a cultural thing.  People don't want to be bothered and it's "normal" to force a kid to fit your life and schedule, not the other way around, KWIM?  

    I must say I feel like my BMB wasn't bad about the CIO so early on.  Plenty happened later, but I don't recall seeing a lot about it within the first few weeks. 

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  • I understand needing to put the baby down, even if they're crying, to help older siblings or go to the bathroom or whatever, but don't understand listening to them cry longer than is completely unavoidable. Especially a newborn, who needs comfort. Andrew spends much of his day being cuddled. Of course he's sometimes put down crying if the girls need something but I avoid it as much as I can. At 2-4 weeks he was pretty much never left to cry.
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  • imagesbevmc09:
    IMO situations like this stem from a few things. nbsp;First, I think people are often understandably completely overwhelmed and don't know what to do and feel like this is going to be their life forever. nbsp;Second, they have bad info things like it's okay to CIO right from the beginning, not wanting to spoil baby, etc.. nbsp;And third, they don't have any understanding of what's normal for baby sleep. nbsp;nbsp;I do think more books should address the topic properly, but also I think it's a cultural thing. nbsp;People don't want to be bothered and it's "normal" to force a kid to fit your life and schedule, not the other way around, KWIM? nbsp;I must say I feel like my BMB wasn't bad about the CIO so early on. nbsp;Plenty happened later, but I don't recall seeing a lot about it within the first few weeks.nbsp;


    100 this!

    There needs to be more education in birthing classes, at prenatal appointments, and during those first days in the hospital or at home about the baby's needs for a "4th trimester". Especially something like a generic 24hr timeline most babies follow with suggestions on how to best cope. It's really all about survival those first 36weeks!

    For what it's worth, I sleeptrained both my kids using Ferber at 7mos and recommend it to everyone!

    eclaire 9.10.06  diggy 6.2.11

  • I am not getting into this. I think there is just too much unwanted advice out there. I did not do any research in regards to sleep training when DD was that young. I nursed her to sleep and stayed up with her because that is what felt natural to me.
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  • I really don't think they realize. I'm a ftm to a 3 month old. No one told me that I would almost be nearly peeing my pants, losing weight from starvation, never get a shower, hallucinating from exhaustion. I literally thought I saw a spider living in his ear at 3am. I was screaming and crying trying to get the spider out. The next morning when SO got home he finally convinced me there wasn't one. 3-6 weeks was terrible. At 6 weeks he started getting into schedules and patterns and became less fussy. Never once have I let him cry for more than a minute or two. There definitely have been times when I should have asked for help. I guess I felt like I should be able to do it myself. Like admitting I need help implies I can't handle being a good mom.
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  • imageMommymorticia:
    I really don't think they realize. I'm a ftm to a 3 month old. No one told me that I would almost be nearly peeing my pants, losing weight from starvation, never get a shower, hallucinating from exhaustion. I literally thought I saw a spider living in his ear at 3am. I was screaming and crying trying to get the spider out. The next morning when SO got home he finally convinced me there wasn't one. 3-6 weeks was terrible. At 6 weeks he started getting into schedules and patterns and became less fussy. Never once have I let him cry for more than a minute or two. There definitely have been times when I should have asked for help. I guess I felt like I should be able to do it myself. Like admitting I need help implies I can't handle being a good mom.

    Sleep deprivation is a beast.  I distinctly remember a time during DS's first few weeks of life where MH woke up while I was sleeping (I snuggle a stuffed animal, yes, yes I do :P ) and FLIPPED OUT because he thought I had rolled over on the baby.  He snatched my stuffed animal out from under me and was cradling it like a baby, rocking it, and freaking out.  When he fell asleep I had DS snuggled next to me trying to get him to go back to sleep.  What he didn't realize was that I had put DS back in the bassinet and gone back to sleep myself.  It was scary for all of us :/  Thankfully he realized after a very scary minute what the situation really was.  

    Asking for help when you need it is so important.  Knowing your limits is being a good parent.  No one can do it all (even though I totally understand feeling the need to do it yourself).  Sometimes you just have to let someone else take over for a bit while you regroup.   

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  • I think it's a lack of education and bad advice.

    We did prenatal classes and they very clearly discussed things like baby's crying increases and peaks at 6 weeks, you cannot spoil a baby, studies show that when you consistenly respond to baby's cries immediately they cry less later on, etc.

    That was all reiterated on the public health nurse home visit. With more info that under a year old babies just aren't capable of manipulating that young and a cry for affection or attention is just as legitimate as one for food. Go to your baby! Even if they continue to cry and you've done all you can think, just attempting to comfort is still great. Of course they also suggested leaving the room if it's overwhelming, calling someone to give you a break, etc.

    I think we have to remember that mom's are still getting advice from well meaning grandparents that didn't believe that babies felt anything. Not loneliness, not a need for affection, etc. They were blobs and leaving them in their crib from 6pm until morning didn't really matter in the end. The thinking and research has changed, but if you are relying in old "wisdom" that's what you're going to get.
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  • I agree with everyone else. Esp. the part about no middle ground and everyone being Bump perfect.

    I also think as a society we're told to research, research, research ALL the THINGS to death and we must do everything word for word what the research says as soon as possible.

    There's no follow your "mommy instinct." Which is sad because more times than not it's the right way. But we all feel bad about using our mommy instinct because it wasn't in the research and research can't ever be wrong/not applicable to real life.

     

  • imagesbevmc09:

    imageMommymorticia:
    I really don't think they realize. I'm a ftm to a 3 month old. No one told me that I would almost be nearly peeing my pants, losing weight from starvation, never get a shower, hallucinating from exhaustion. I literally thought I saw a spider living in his ear at 3am. I was screaming and crying trying to get the spider out. The next morning when SO got home he finally convinced me there wasn't one. 3-6 weeks was terrible. At 6 weeks he started getting into schedules and patterns and became less fussy. Never once have I let him cry for more than a minute or two. There definitely have been times when I should have asked for help. I guess I felt like I should be able to do it myself. Like admitting I need help implies I can't handle being a good mom.

    Sleep deprivation is a beast.  I distinctly remember a time during DS's first few weeks of life where MH woke up while I was sleeping (I snuggle a stuffed animal, yes, yes I do :P ) and FLIPPED OUT because he thought I had rolled over on the baby.  He snatched my stuffed animal out from under me and was cradling it like a baby, rocking it, and freaking out.  When he fell asleep I had DS snuggled next to me trying to get him to go back to sleep.  What he didn't realize was that I had put DS back in the bassinet and gone back to sleep myself.  It was scary for all of us :/  Thankfully he realized after a very scary minute what the situation really was.  

    Asking for help when you need it is so important.  Knowing your limits is being a good parent.  No one can do it all (even though I totally understand feeling the need to do it yourself).  Sometimes you just have to let someone else take over for a bit while you regroup.   

    Oh no! How scary for him!

    I have definitely learned my lesson now. My mom has stayed overnight a couple of times since then. My SO works 12 hour overnight shifts and sleeps during some of the day so sometimes I feel like I'm alone.

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  • imagedairygirl19:

    I agree with everyone else. Esp. the part about no middle ground and everyone being Bump perfect.

    I also think as a society we're told to research, research, research ALL the THINGS to death and we must do everything word for word what the research says as soon as possible.

    There's no follow your "mommy instinct." Which is sad because more times than not it's the right way. But we all feel bad about using our mommy instinct because it wasn't in the research and research can't ever be wrong/not applicable to real life.

     

    Thats my biggest advice to new moms: go with your gut. If it feel right, do it.

    Also just wanted to reiterate that I am NOT talking a out sleep training or older babies. I'm strictly wondering where the disconnect comes from with regards to newborns- especially the first 6 weeks or so. 


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  • I agree with everything that's been said. I'm a FTM and DD is 8 months old. The first few weeks, months I guess, were a huge adjustment. 

    I did a ton of research, read lots of books on what to expect and how to cope. I knew that she would need to be held a lot, and especially since I was planning to BF that it would make it even more difficult.

    In theory, I felt comfortable saying I was prepared and knew what to expect. In action though, not so much. Knowing and experiencing are two very different things. There were days when I didn't get off of my couch-nest except for maybe a few minutes here and there to use the bathroom.

    I was exhausted, ravenous all the time, and frustrated getting the hang of BF-ing, which was incredibly painful for me until I got used to it. I had a hard time handling her sad little newborn cry anytime. It was just so pathetic and just screamed that she needed comforting. I can't imagine sitting somewhere while my newborn cried like that.  

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  • imagecjcouple:
    I think it is lack of knowledge for the most part. But also immaturity and selfishness but also poor advice from family members. I was specifically told by hospital and their pedi that the first 3 months of a babies life you can hold them all you want because they cannot be spoiled. Personally I never held my boys non stop. I did feel the need for a little space. As long as they were content and sleeping independently I let them be. But I loved my snuggle time and did cuddle a lot. I purposely rocked them to sleep because I Ioved it. But I do think it is good to allow them some space too.

    I definitely agree. If baby is happy in the swing/bouncer/playmat/crib- leave them be! DS was so rarely not crying that when he was content just hanging out I gotSo excited  LOL.  


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  • It does make sense, and being held is a need.  I think the problem is there's just no way to prepare for how exhausting it is.

    It's especially hard when you have older LOs to take care of.  I knew what to expect in the newborn stage the second time around but was still exhausted and frustrated much of the time.

    I wouldn't be talking CIO that young, of course....but I think it's just the fatigue talking.  After a few weeks of sleep deprivation you start talking crazy and looking for relief, even if you know it's normal and will pass!

    DS (7 years old) from FET in 2010
    DD (5 years old) from IUI in 2012
    TTC 3rd and final!: IUI #1 in progress!
  • I think the reason why some moms want to do it so early is either they're super new moms who have never been around babies in their lives, or they expect it to be easy and don't want anything to do with a crying baby so CIO seems like the easy way out, or a little of both.

    It makes me sad when people say "you need to hold him less, you'll spoil him" or something like that. Its not just babies who need to be held and cuddled too; if a three year old wants a little cuddle time, are you going to say no? I certainly won't (if the house isn't on fire anyway).

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  • Americans are a wee bit obsessed with babies becoming "independent" as soon as possible. I think giving all new parents a baby carrier should be a requirement - so many people I know (who aren't strictly attachment parenting folks) love baby wearing bc it's generally so much easier for all involved.

    What about that Harvey Karp book? Maybe they should also have to read "Happiest Baby on the Block", too. Not that I even did all the things in that book, but I think he does a good job addressing the reality of life with a newborn. 

    The book "Our Babies, Ourselves" is such a good read and talks about what different societies value and emphasize when it comes to caring for babies. Totally fascinating.

    https://www.amazon.com/Our-Babies-Ourselves-Biology-Culture/dp/0385483627/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372702144&sr=1-1&keywords=our+babies+ourselves

    DS1 - Feb 2008

    DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)

  • I love your last paragraph, you should say that to them.

    I have no idea where this desire comes from, you would think the mother would want to cuddle a lot after spending 9 months waiting for the cuddles. Perhaps new motherhood is a bit of a shock and they feel overwhelmed and are sleep deprived and not thinking clearly.   

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