"Divorced dad guilt" (Formerly "DH wont stand up to ex-wife")
YummyChef
member
(Re-posted this from the nest's Family matters to here)
My husband is being sued by his ex-wife because she wants more money to pay for a lifestyle that she can't afford for herself and is calling it "child-support".
When my husband divorced his ex, the judge established how much money she would get in child support for their one year old boy. Every year, he kept giving her more and more, because he understood his child needed more things... but it has gotten ridiculous.
He gives her a check every month for twice the amount established six years ago, which does not include (he pays for this separately all by himself): doctor's bills, medicine, school tuition and supplies (all year round), class trips, christmas gifts, expenses when he's with us for extended periods of time, after-school classes, tutor, some food staples that my husband sells wholesale, haircuts, and a few other things...
Regardless, every weekend when we pick him up she gives him to us in dirty, torn, too small clothes... while she's decked out to the nines, with fake nails, hair extensions, professionally applied makeup, expensive handbags, and such... It got so embarassing that one day we had to go to our country's equivalent of Target to buy him a decent outfit to wear out with us. And has gone as far as to say that he eats too much for a kid his age and that how is she expected to feed him so much.
Now she's gone to a judge and asked for MORE money. She wants 2.5 times what she's already getting. Which probably won't mean that all the other additional things he pays for will stop. In the mean time, we've been married for two and a half years, I keep getting the whole "we can't afford it" reply everytime i mention kids, house stuff, etc...
I think there are few divorced dads that don't live with their son, that take him to and from school every single day, has never been late for a child support payment, pays for all the extras, spends all his weekends with his son and extended holidays (sometimes over a month) whenever she has to go away on "business" trips.
How can I get him to understand that saying no to HER, does not make him a bad father to his SON? A therapist I went to a couple of times says he's got "divorced dad guilt". Any suggestions? Has anyone been through something similar?
ps. his family is useless in offering him guidance and a dad getting custody is basically impossible in our country.
Edit: We've got lawyers working on the custody stuff, need help on the "divorced dad guilt"
Re: "Divorced dad guilt" (Formerly "DH wont stand up to ex-wife")
Honestly, the court is going to award what they deem appropriate. Anything paid over the CO is on your DH. If he wants to pay more, than there is really nothing you can do about that other than have a discussion with him. You most likely are not going to "change" him to think differently if this is what he has already done. So if this is a big issue with you then maybe you should consider leaving.
And a CP absolutely has every right to go back to court for a CS adjusment if they feel it is warranted, just as a NCP can do the same. For all you know the new amount CO'ed would be less than what he is currently paying over the CO, but from the sounds of things that won't affect his decision on what to give her so I think you just need to accept the situation or move on.
YH is paying additional amounts and that is on him. He is not ordered to pay extra and he doesnt have to. If youve talked to him and he still pays extra then theres probably not much more you can do.
If the judges issues a child support increase it will be because it was warranted. Nothing you can do about that. Also, stop concerning yourself with BM hair and nails. It doesn't help anything and only causes more issues. Just get a current order from the judge and pay what is deemed a fair amount.
Click me, click me!
If we lived in the states it would all be easier, as custody laws protect BOTH parties and have the child's best interest in mind. Here, even though she makes more money than DH, the judge will probably rule in her favor to raise the CS, which I think is fair, AS LONG as we cut all the other extra stuff (which is being paid 100% by my husband while she spends the CS on herself).
But my real question (that no one seems to get) is how to deal with the "divorced dad guilt", has anyone else experienced this, how did they handle it? Because THAT is my real problem...
For example, if SS needs Tylenol, for a cold, she calls and says "I don't have money, go and buy it". DH instead of saying "that's what CS is for" he goes out, buys it and hand delivers it to her house. He thinks that if he denies any of her requests he's depriving his son and he feels like a crappy dad, even though he's obviously not.
Edit: Also, it's not like we haven't made ANY progress, this year he made her pay for half the school tuition,(SUCCESS!) but that's when she decided to sue us for more CS, saying that she had to take out a loan to pay for her half and now needs more money for the other things.
I don't get why people assume he's not gonna change. He's acknowledge that she's taking advantage of him, he got a great lawyer to work his case, we have THE custody battle binder with absolutely every expense detailed with receipts, every bruise and injury SS has gotten while at BM's house, he made her pay this year for half of the school tuition (which he used to pay 100% of), he's asked her to stop coming by his family's house (MIL, SIL, etc.), he's asked MIL and SIL to stop treating BM like their close friend, we've made progress in the last couple of years...
I just want to help him UNDERSTAND that standing up to BM is NOT neglecting his child.
Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Weight Loss Tools
I can somewhat relate to you. In the first couple years of our relationship bm would call dh and say she needed money for food, etc. He would always cave and drop off food, give her money, whatever he needed too. This infuriated me because she was getting quite a lot in cs. Through much talking I think he finally realized she was going to do this as long as he let her.
He eventually said no.. and kept saying no to any extras. Of course he still pitches in half for recreational activities, eye glasses, things like that but as far as giving her any money that's been done with and she stopped asking after so many failed attempts.
Your husband needs to learn to say no. She will take care of her kids and is just taking advantage of him because he's letting her.
The fact that you have to "help him understand" that he can't put his own wife on the backburner while he willingly pays out of the damned to a woman he does not have to . . . yeah, ain't changing. There are some things you shouldn't have to explain to people. Making your wife live on a shoestring budget, childless and without other normal things because he's voluntarily handing over his paycheck to a woman he shares neither a house, nor naughty times with is one of them.
Click me, click me!
Hind, not only do you give great advice, you do it so colorfully!
OP, you should never have to tell your husband that you are a priority in his life. I don't mean that you come before SS, but your concerns and input should be taken into account. Since you are married, his money and his decisions are no longer just his. It is your money he is freely handing over to someone who won't stop until he decides to deal with the fact that he is no longer with his son's mom. Maybe I'm not sympathetic enough but I think it's ridiculous that he is preventing himself and his wife from having a healthy relationship. I think people are telling you to leave because regardless of what you call it, your husband is completely disregarding you and your life with him.
This exactly.
I agree with counseling. This is a marital issue as much as it is a blended family issue. And I'm not sure it's guilt - - I think he has no backbone and when he finally stands up to her, it's because he fears your anger (perhaps justified) as much as he fears his ex.
Maybe you can brainstorm some solutions -- such as all of her requests have to be via email or text. That way you can build a file of them so that you can review it over time (Tylenol on Monday, new clothes on Friday, food the next Tuesday, phone bill on Saturday, etc.) and see how they add up. Also, that will give him time to review the requests.
Or you can pay for "extras," but never give money to BM (for example, if SS needs hockey equipment, go and buy the equipment or send the club a check, but don't give BM the money). That way, BM cannot turn around and tell SS "your dad never pays for ANYTHING" without being a liar.
I would work with the lawyers to build a detailed expense listing to determine what is covered by CS.
Overall if he does not change, I would leave. You cannot put your life on hold because your H will allow his ex to run your lives. You deserve to have control over your own finances and life choices. Also, in the meantime, I would separate your finances from H until this is all over.
Click me, click me!
It may not have started as a backbone issue though.
My husband acting this way with BM and they were never married. On top of CS he cosigned for BM's car and subsequently paid nearly all the payments on it plus her car insurance, he paid all of K's extracurricular activities, all of the daycare and frequently covered the maintenance on BM's car. He felt that the best way to take care of K was to make sure BM was taken care of as well.
However, once I told him that if he wanted OUR relationship to become serious and wanted to get married than the extras needed to stop, he stopped.
Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Weight Loss Tools
Sorry this is so long, but I was very blindsided by the same issues after I got married. DH didn't know how to juggle this after we married. Before, things were fine. Around and after our wedding BM ramped up the crazy (and she was always insane and out there) and started making insane demands. It took some time, but DH had to see that he was being manipulated. He bought in entirely that there were things his kids NEEDED and he shelled out. In this case, he was paying a chunk of change in voluntary spousal on top of CS - very much like what your DH is doing - and then more on top - for "groceries". The kids would call and say "we have no food". Over time, he wised up and would call the other child and say "send me a pic on your phone of the pantry" and it would be filled. BM would claim SD had no clothes that fit but she would bring over three pairs of Miss Me jeans ($75-125 a pair) and a Coach bag.
Here is what worked here:
1) Couples counseling
2) The concept that money is fungible. Don't obsess about it on a personal level, but pointing out the things BM chose instead of the things she needed helped. For instance, weekly manis and pedis for she and SD and an inability to buy Advil for cramps was an issue of spending, not an issue of cash flow. This kind of spending was one of the reasosn for his divorce, so it resonated.
The one thing you will have to get your head around is this is not about money. It's about DH caring for his child. If he lacks custody, he has de facto delegated that care, due to the structure of child support arrangements, to BM. As such, he cannot buy food, clothes and medicine and call it CS. CS is CS and must be paid in funds. The challenge is again that money is fungible, and BM might not make the same choices DH would make regarding spending and care of the child. Here, it took about a year of "NO" for BM to curtail her frivilous spending in favor of more rational choices. Examples include: AC going out upstairs; no money to repair. 100 degree weather, skids had to sleep on the floor downstairs. BM and skids thought DH should pay to fund new AC units for the whole house. She had to figure that out, not DH. Another is her washing machine. BM and skids live in a high end country club neighborhood but drive to a laundromat to do laundry.
Now, DH wishes that these things were not experiences his children have. But if he wanted to ensure that his kids were not raised by BM he either should have been more careful and procreated with someone who is not insane OR he should have stayed married OR he should have gotten custody. As none of those are possible, the counselor pointed out he had to figure out how his life and the lives of his children looked and where was an acceptable line for him. Here, we landed where he gives the kids extra money for things they want to do and no extra funds to BM. It was very painful to watch DH on this learning curve.
As for your wishes for children, home goods, etc. Do not jump off any cliffs until DH is on the same page as you are. DS is 1, and I waited it out until DH was on the right path. We started counseling before we got pregnant and finished while I was pregnant. You do not want to "convince" him to do these things. He needs to be IN IT 150%. After all of the above, it is very possible DH will choose the needs of his child above all else, even his own needs and desires, at which point, if I were you, I would walk.
All of this is really common sense. And you can't say that the BM is preventing any of this. There are ways to get around this. Supplying the child's needs directly will take away you feeling that you are paying for the BM's lifestyle, which is out of your control anyway. As long as you can make sure that the child's needs are met by directly purchasing what he needs, then do not concern yourself what you think she uses the COed CS on. It will drive you crazy and drive you and yH apart.
You can force his hand and give him ultimatums but then he'll be doing what you want under duress and not what he wants.
Unless he's slow or stupid he already understands.
You have a tough life ahead of you.
It's hard enough being married to someone with a looser ex and the step-kids. When you add divorced dad guilt to the mix it's almost too much. I mean, I'm sure every divorced parent has some guilt, that's natural. However, if they let the guilt cripple them and they lie down as a doormat to be stepped on, well.... what can you do?
You, as the spouse of someone like that, have some choices to make. People like that don't change readily, even with counseling.
My H has NEVER gone this far, it's specifically about things that are 100% my SS's but he's paying 100% of it, instead of 50%.