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Baby Showers
Jontue
member
Culture? Race?
Jontue
member
in Baby Showers
Some of the board queens know of me by now from a previous post. That was fun. Remember my husband is having a party and I am not having a shower. Shame! Lol.
Anyway, I was wondering what is the race make up of this board..
I ask because I have been to a lot of baby showers and a lot of what is said as etiquette on here isn't what I have observed nor enjoyed.
Anyway, I was wondering what is the race make up of this board..
I ask because I have been to a lot of baby showers and a lot of what is said as etiquette on here isn't what I have observed nor enjoyed.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Culture? Race?
/hairy sideeye
A lot of things posted here don't seem like manners...more like preference.
So I wondered if race or culture, even location is why I see such a huge difference.
No need to side eye, it's a straight face question.
I thought a board about baby showers on a page for expectant parents would be different based on my experiences of what I have seen people enjoy...
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He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
But tacky...is that your opinion because of your culture? Maybe a better question is where do the etiquette rules listed on here come from? Do we really believe there is one absolute right way to celebrate...down to the every detail...
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That means that dictating a specific gift, like a book instead of a card, or diapers, is rude.
Asking guests to bring their own food is rude.
Bringing along uninvited guests, including kids, is rude.
Throwing your own shower, an event that is expressly designed to shower the MTB with gifts, is rude.
Asking someone for a shower, or demanding a certain shower, is rude.
Being a beyotch at a party is also rude, which is why many of us stick a smile on our face when faced with these behaviors and then talk about them behind the host's back. Don't assume the people you see "enjoying" being asked to give gift cards and books instead of cards, as well as bringing a dish and a pack of diapers, are just loving that party.
Race, culture, and geography are all irrelevant; these behaviors are rude no matter who you are and where you live.
I'm an anthropologist - and would agree that what makes "proper etiquette" is culturally bound and constructed. That said, I am white, middle-class, Christian background.
At the end of the day though, the only person's opinion that matters is your own, a lot of etiquette issues get WAY overblown, especially with weddings and babies in my opinion.
Telling other people how to spend their money = tacky
Using your own money to throw a party where people are supposed to come bring you presents = tacky
Throwing yourself a party that celebrates you = tacky
Treating people that are taking time out of their day and may or may not be spending large amounts of money on you like total crap = tacky
Hosting a gathering and making people do any of the following: purchase their own food, bring their own food, address their own thank yous, pay a cover charge, feel bad about not participating in "games" that require them to spend more money than they otherwise planned on = tacky
....I can't honestly think of a culture that would be ok with telling other people how to spend their money (in any sense of the word) or treated guests like anything less than honored visitors.
One could argue that cultures/people have become so accustomed to being treated horribly that they no longer have the right expectations. For example, if you're around someone that says F**k all of the time, you would become desensitized to it and not care/notice if someone said it. This doesn't mean that, at its core, it's appropriate to walk into someones house and tell their hostess "Pass me the f**king peas, please". Just because you're used to being around crass people doesn't make everyone who has higher standards wrong or stuck up.
I think across all cultural boundaries there are sub-cultures of people who are generally less tactful and polite than others, although the definition of "less tactful" would vary by said culture. However, at the basis of all cultures and regions, there are common standards that they find important and one of those is to be thankful for all gifts you are given, to be polite to those people who give them to you, to be appropriately humble, and to treat visitors/guests with utmost respect and courtesy.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
Oh well isn't that tacky...obviously you don't know better...best wishes with working on that...
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I agree. Doesn't make me right...but I agree.
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Using your own money to throw a party where people are supposed to come bring you presents = tacky
Throwing yourself a party that celebrates you = tacky
Like a wedding or reception or anniversary party?
Still leaves the question unanswered where do the rules come from? Are they tradition or rules?
I think across all cultural boundaries there are sub-cultures of people who are generally less tactful and polite than others, although the definition of "less tactful" would vary by said culture. However, at the basis of all cultures and regions, there are common standards that they find important and one of those is to be thankful for all gifts you are given, to be polite to those people who give them to you, to be appropriately humble, and to treat visitors/guests with utmost respect and courtesy.
Ok this I could see would agree...again doesn't make me right...but I would agree
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I think there is a difference in being ok or I don't like. I think there are things I don't like but doesn't make them not ok.
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I believe that most people feel this way because basic etiquette has been discarded in favor of convenience and laziness. As such, most people are no longer familiar with it and when approached with it, feel it is "going overboard" or unnecessary.
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Manners and etiquette? Or your opinion? And no one is born with the rules to hosting a party.
No one has yet to say where the rules come from. Are people still using Emily Post?
My hypothesis was culture like my grandma did it this way so I do it this way but the majority statements are no. Okay so where?
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I get where you are coming from. I remember the first time I saw a "money dance" at a wedding thought and was like WTF?!
Thank you for your reply.
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Yes!
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Yes!
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Thank goodness someone educated answered the question and understands what the OP is saying. Took a TON of anthro in college, and I agree.
OP I am hispanic, middle class
And YES! I do believe cultures have different ways of doing things and backrounds. I come from a HUGE hispanic family, and so my first shower was co-ed with a ton of beer, and nobody side eyed it for a second. It was a fun day, and some of my friends could not believe we had alcohol there!! I thought that was normal. lol
But I have seen people of different races, ages, and SESs do dollar dances. I still think they're tacky. Ive lived in many different places, and just because something is the norm within your social circle, doesn't make it right. And, FTR, I hate when people say "Well I live in the south, and we just do things differently here." Bull.
Thank you
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Ok but because I don't like the dollar dance doesn't make it wrong...
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Dollar dances are gross.
However, to go back to the whole " who makes the rules" aspect, even if you subscribed to the idea that the fundamental basics of proper etiquette are culturally based, these women (most of the posters here) are still being rude. They come on to ask opinions about matters and ideas that they are unfamiliar with ("is it tacky if..." or "how do I find a poem for..." or "my mom says I can't have a second shower.....") which, in itself, says that is not a cultural norm. If your social group/culture believes that every mom to be gets a $500 check as a gift, they will do so without a poem telling them to do so. If you have to ask where to find a poem or if it's tacky to ask for your check, it is.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
Actually, basic etiquette, at least the way we see it, is a pretty modern concept (maximally 100 years) and inclusive to Western/American culture. I mean think about it - there were no Bronze Age baby showers - do you think that chiefdoms in Indonesia even throw baby showers? (they probably do something, but it doesn't look like your typical diaper-cake pastel fiasco here). It's also changing constantly- just think of how the internet has changed what we consider proper etiquette and politeness. I'm not trying to flame you, just trying to get you to understand my point about etiquette - it's not some ancient tradition that's set in stone or a commandment so to speak - it's totally relative.
Sigh...when you get pregnant you aren't immediately endowed with all of this baby-shower wisdom so maybe the fact that people are coming to a mostly anonymous internet board with questions means they are just looking for advice and not judgment. I'm a FTM and after lurking here, I didn't realize a lot of things that were done at showers were considered rude or tacky, I'm glad I know now! What else is the point of this board if not to ask for help/pointers/advice? Just curious...
I missed your relies stuck in the middle of my original post the first time I read through.
Weddings are ceremonies and the couple invites people close to them to come to witness it. Gifts are not expected. Receptions are traditionally hosted by someone else, but it has become more common for the couple to host it themselves. Even then, gifts are not expected. You are inviting them to celebrate the ceremony the occurred previously, not to come celebrate you. You would never invite someone to a wedding reception and ask them to pay for their own meal. You are hosting an event for those people you love and you provide for them. Anniversary parties and birthday parties are usually hosted by someone other than the guest of honor (usually the parents or children of the guest of honor).
It may have come to be a social norm to bring a gift to a wedding reception, it is in no way a requirement. Friends and family bring gifts to show their love and support of their marital union, not because they have been told to.
I stand behind the belief that there are basic rules of how to treat people that do not vary from culture to culture. These rules do not have to be taught and are engrained in us. If anything is taught, it is the disregard for how to treat people. Basic rules of how to treat people are global. There are cultural variations that apply, but at their core, they still follow the golden rule.
If you're insisting on questioning the rules, why don't you question what is taught socially....the rules of how to treat people or the disregard of them in order to be self-serving.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
Nope there have been ethnographies and studies of people past and present and the only true human universals culturally are incest taboos - which topically - some have postulated is actually related more to gift exchange! If you ever have time consider reading Marcel Mauss' book The Gift. What we consider politeness is totally exclusive to Western/American culture - even what we consider gracious behavior is totally exclusive to Western/American culture.
A personal example - I was living in India last year during Diwali (their huge yearly festival) and gave one of the staff members at the place I was living a gift. She looked blankly at me, took the gift, turned around and walked away without saying a word. I thought that I had done something wrong - or committed some kind of faux-pax because people do exchange gifts on that day. Nope, it's totally normal way for some people to accept gifts there - while we would maybe embrace the person and say "thank you" for them it's better to not show too much emotion about it. Infact, saying "thank you" all of the time for things like a server clearing the table, or someone giving you something is actually considered rude and obsequious.
Let's break that down, shall we? By basic etiquette, one example, I mean expressing thanks for a gift received. How is that a "pretty modern concept(max 100 years) and inclusive to Western/American culture"? I'm pretty certain that with the Asian cultures I've dealt with overseas, expressing gratitude is a very big thing and has been for far longer than "100 years".
I'm not referring to method, i.e. handwritten note vs. email or phone call. I'm not saying it's set in stone, either. But there is a basic principle (etiquette) that says to show that you appreciate the efforts of the other person. I'm generally referring to those who do not feel that they need to take the time or effort to do so.
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Sigh...but if you were raised in a culture that believes X, you are already aware of it before you even get pregnant. the Internet has changed things, you're right. I know now that there are weddings where people get cash handed to them in envelopes, I want to have that at my next wedding. I better hurry up and tell all of my guests I expect them to have their money ready to go. If I was raised in a culture where that was normal, I would know about that (or my family would tell me about that) before I planned my wedding.
I totally agree that the are cultural variations, no gifts before the birth, no men allowed, no kids, no babies, yes kids, yes babies, yes men, lots of gifts, cash gifts, etc, but they all still follow the basic rules of how to treat people. If you have something that is a crucial part of your culture (dollar dances at polish weddings, red envelopes at Chinese weddings, cash at bar mitzpahs, no baby shower in Jewish homes, separated men and women events in strict Amish church services, etc) then your guests are already prepared to participate in them. The only people you would have to instruct are the people who aren't part of your culture and that would be in a face to face discussion, not in a poem that you put in your invite.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
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You're right.
I mean, that's what you want to hear, right? No matter what anyone says to you, we are all obviously idiots and you have the answers.
He's the single greatest thing I've done in my life and reminds me daily of how fun (and funny) life can be. He's turned out pretty swell for having such a heartless and evil mother.
No, actually I was just looking for discussion and wasn't trying to be rude. I don't think you're all idiots in the least.
Then I suppose I have nothing else to contribute....besides this gif.
Life with Blog
I'm pink with a dash of green.
I also fart glitter.
Does that help?
Yes, actually farting glitter would be amazing!!!
Exactly, politeness is a basic fundamental that span all cultures.
FTR... I'm not going to quote everything, but I agree with everything ballsox had to contribute. The golden rule comment especially.
In a nutshell I think across all cultures people who don't have their heads shoved up their own arse generally care to treat others the way they'd like to be treated. It takes two seconds to ask ones self the question "how would I feel if I were asked to do this, etc", yet it's easier for some to ask around as many people as they can until they have enough "yes" responses to justify whatever self serving idea they've come up with. I know a ton of different kinds of people and some are considerate and others are not...some are sisters from the same family and raised the same way.
I personally find it rude for someone to begin a conversation and then when you feel finished to just dismiss everyone. Who are you??
Finally, I've read a few times that it must be about it being Western/American... Well news flash here but we live in the United Effing States...