3 yo Ds takes 2 hrs to go to sleep every night...help
groovygrl
member
I feel at a loss, this has been going on for months. We do bedtime routin around 730, try to be in rooms by 800 or so, he reads and plays in there for hous and he will come in and out of his room constantly (we used to lock door on outside for a couple months when he first went to a bed but he smeared poop all over the place once and was still really crying about it and asking us not to shut the door and sleepingon the floor next to the door every night even after 2 months of that so we decidednot to do that anymore a few months ago. (sorry for all typos my iPad doesn't let me edit or move my cursor easily?)
I know the first question will be re naps- yes he still naps bc he is an absolute nightmare by 5pm if he does not (like we had to hastily leave a restaurant last weekend bc of the meltdown tha occurred and I know it was tired related). He does resist nap at home on the weekends. However, his daycare class still has nap time and there is a group they try to keep up for an extra hour bc some are phasing out of naps, but unless we can bring something to occupy him on his mat, they cannot keep him up for the whole nap time and he sleeps easily there.mhe is not the kind of kid who would sit on a mat and play quietly so that is not even an option I am considering.
Right now it is 1030, he went into his room at like 815 and he is currently sitting outside my bedroom door w a book. We have been carrying him back to his room over and over all night, alternating w just ignoring but he will sit outside ,y door for the next 30 min or more with that book, I am sure of it. This whole thing is really getting old, we are spending 2 hrs upstairs having to keep and ear or eye out for him playing in the hall, wandering around, going into his sisters room and some nights I just want to go to sleep like now but I am not comfortable going to sleep w him still awake. Lying down with him would work but we have been there done that in the past, it is a hard inf to break if he gets used to it and I don't want to go there...
Re: 3 yo Ds takes 2 hrs to go to sleep every night...help
I'm sorry, but it sounds like he's kind of playing you. Back when he was upset about the door being shut, I would have told him, OK, we'll leave the door open, but you have to stay in your bed. Right now, it doesn't sound like you mean business about keeping him in his room. You put him back, but there's nothing to prevent him from coming out again. And when he does come out, he gets 30 min to play/read? I would put him in bed, lights off, tuck in, good night kiss, etc. Then, park yourself outside his door(door open if he needs it or with the baby monitor so you can see what he's doing). The minute he swings his feet over, put him back in bed. Repeat as necessary. It will probably be 2+ hours the first time, but I think you're sending him mixed messages by putting him back, but allowing him to get out and play. Of course he's going to choose the extra playing time.
You could also try some sort of sticker chart/reward thing if he responds to that. Something like earning a sticker every night he stays in bed, and then he gets something after so many stickers.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. When we transitioned DD out of her crib, we had to train her to stay in her bed. We also didn't want to lock her in her room and let her scream. It was 2 weeks, and DH and I would alternate who sat outside her room to make sure she stayed in bed. It's not fun, but she knows now that bedtime means going to sleep and staying in bed.
Good luck!
I'm not sure what you're asking him to do. I mean, clearly, you want him to go to sleep, but adults don't go to sleep on command either, so that's not a reasonable expectation. You can't force sleep. Even your "rules" are inconsistent, so I can't tell what it is you're aiming to get.
Do you want him to stay quietly in bed? Just stay quietly in his room? Just be quiet but be anywhere he wants?
If you want him to stay in bed, you've got to be 100% consistent with taking him back to his room as soon as he leaves it. (Camp out by his door with your iPad to entertain you if need be - I've been there, done that for a different sleep reason.) Right now, you're telling him that if he keeps trying, he can stay up reading.
If you want an approach that requires less effort from yourself, you can try a baby gate or the locked door again, and deal with the poop as a separate behavior issue, but it seems like there is something else going on there that just because the door was locked he was otherwise content and happily smeared poop on his walls. It seems like there's some sort of fear going on there.
I presume you've checked for scary shadows, fears, right about of light, appropriate temperature, appropriate texture (no scratchy blankets, etc.), presence of necessary cuddly toys and all of that first.
Thanks all...
yes, the 30 min of reading in the hall is just what happens when I get so sick of putting him back in his room for 2 hrs... We have been parked outside the room w/ our ipads/computers in teh dark for months now. That is what I'm getting sick of. It has gotten to a point where I think he relies on us to be sitting htere and he will not sleep in his bed b/c he wants to be in the doorway looking at us. I am not sure that is the best thing either, so I've been trying to be out of sight more & checking on him periodically to put him back in his room.
I disagree that he doesnt know the expectation. He is almost 3 1/2. We have very comprehensive conversations. He knows what he is supposed to do, he is just not interested in doing it.
I know I can't force sleep so really I just want him to stay in his room quietly and go to sleep when he wants. And selfishly I just want to have my evening back & not have to plant myself outside the door & have to be checking constantly to put him back in his room. He doesnt have toysin there, just stuffed things & a few books (we limit him to 2-3books b/c otherwise the entire room would be covered in them)
To address a few thing-
We have been doing sticker charts for MONTHS. The first was to go to bed w/out crying. Took weeks but finally succeeded in doing it consistently. Second one was to sleep all night in his own room (he was constantly coming to our room inthe middle of the night, climbing in bed, which we would hug & then take him back to his room but there were/are lots of fears- of the dark, monsters, his bed, etc etc etc so if he is really upset we will let him sleep on our floor). Finally had like 2 straight weeks of not coming into our room, which was awesome. Moved on to the 3rd sticker chart, for him to sleep IN his bed all night. This is a miserable fail. He won't do it, he has like 2 stickers & we've been doing it over a week. He has started coming back to our room in the night again.
He will not sleep in the dark. I am well aware of the eye development concerns ppl have but he freaks out & cries if a dim light is not on in there (brighter than a nightlight but more like a bedside lamp).
Definite fears & anxieties- not just in this area and we have been to a dev. psych and talked about it, she feels it is related to a lot of changes in the last year (we moved states & into this new house in Feb). When he gets upset he asks to 'go home' or 'go to our apt' (we lived in a temp apt before the house, which he hated by hte way and cried every night there). We reassure, we use 'monster spray', etc.
Thanks for the advice though. We need to revisit yet again I guess and amybe I'll look into the melatonin too. I appreciate hearing that others struggle w/ this too!
Well, if he's dealing with a lot of anxiety and fear, I think that expecting him to behave as though he doesn't have any is too much until he's developed tools (beyond "just ignore it") to cope with those fears.
What if you (after telling him, and discussing with him what you were going to do) lay with him for 15 minutes once he gets into bed (lights down, no talking or playing, just laying next to him). Then, reminding him of the pattern, you leave for five minutes. Then you come back and stay for 10 minutes. Then leave for five, back for five, then leave for the night, maybe coming to check on him (without staying) at five minute intervals (no sooner!!) when he calls you.
We did an even easier variation on this, this, and then "harder" variations on it, to help DD deal with me not staying with her all night long. (Now I stay for 10 minutes after we nurse, then daddy can come in after 10 minutes if she calls, but he doesn't stay.) It took a long time to work through this transition (years, from when I first started). But it gave her clear guidelines while still challenging her.
Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting your evening back. But you don't have it right now and have a son in a chronic state of anxiety every evening.
Sure he may "know" the expectation from your conversation, but if you send him mixed messages (which you do), then it will be confusing. By alternating between taking him back to the room and letting him sit by your door, you're undoing the conversation about the expectation. As in, "Mom said she expects me to stay in my room, but she lets me come out... so what exactly does she expect?"
Ok, is he has a lot of anxiety/fears, you're going to have to make it so you're consistent about enforcing him staying quietly in his room, but support him, so he's not anxious about it. DD was going through some separation anxiety when we moved her out of her crib, so we made it really explicit what she had to do(stay in her bed), but we also let her know we were still around so she didn't feel like she was alone(sit in the doorway to her room). We would put her back in bed the minute she started to get out. Once she was ok with that, we went to, "OK, mommy and daddy are going to go sit in the office." which is the room next door to her room. We would take the monitor with us because she did try to get up a few times, but she wasn't freaking out about being alone because she knew where we were. After that, it was, "OK, mommy and daddy are going to go clean up the kitchen/take out the trash/do whatever, and then we'll check on you." We would go do something for 5-10 min., and then go check on her. This whole thing took months(including some regressing during illnesses and traveling). However, it was totally worth it because now, DH and I give kiss and hug, turn off the lights, and that's it.
Also, this might just be me, but if he wants the nightlight or whatever on, I'd totally let him have that if it helps him with staying in bed. You can't fight all the battles at once, and at this point, it doesn't seem like he can handle dark room issues + staying in bed, so I'd just focus on the staying in bed for now.
Also, I know you don't want to do this, but I did the lying down with DD when she was sick, and had to train her out of it later. Whatever you do is going to be rough for a while because he's used to doing whatever he wants at night, so I would pick something and just stick with it.
Thanks again all!
I appreciate the tips I continue to think everyone is still interpreting that we let him do whatever he wants we really don't. I think I miscommunicated- what I meant was that he WOULD sit there for 30 min if I let him, which I don't- I actually hit post & then took him back to his room. 10 min later he was back in my doorway again. Then back to his room & he was in there singing Rudolph at 1045pm. For months now we hvae sat outside the room & picked him up and put him back in the room over & over every single night, we have sat right outside the door where we can see him & he can see us, we let a light on and tell him we are going downstairs if we do that & then come back & he is usually out of his room or whatnot. We say, it's bedtime, it is time to be in your room, you need to stay in your room, you need to read quietly in your room when we put him back in there or ask him to go back (which he does, sometimes all I have to do is point or say "back in your room" & he turns around & goes back in). I have tried the not talking or making eye contact & putting him back as well. The second we let up on it at all by leaving the area before he is asleep, it's like we're back to square one.
My frustration is not only that he leaves constantly but that he literally does not seem able to fall asleep before 10pm. His twin sister is usually asleep by 845 or 900 and also naps at daycare. I know everyone needs different sleep (trust me, my kids sleep issues & needs have always be very very different)... I don't get why so many other kids this age still nap but also still go to bed by 8/9pm. Argh.
Anyway, maybe we have to try gating the door though he will climb it I have no doubt (I'm not double gating him in there, that to me is no different than the shut door, it is like jail or something) and/or scream & keep his sister up. I feel like we have been doing the put back thing for so long, and we hvae done it as consistently as possible, so I will continue to do it since we don't seem to have a choice, but that seems to be the major recommendation of everyone- I think I'll try the strategy w/ using 5 & 10 min intervals & I'll have to set a timer and WTH I feel like they're still infants w/ all this garbage LOL.
This is WAY more complicated than an infant could manage. You are asking him, while he is alert and awake, to stay in one room (that takes a huge amount of self-control) and to be quiet (which is another huge amount of self-control). On top of that, you are asking him to manage the fears he has about being alone, which is a very challenging thing for a toddler to do without help.
It's great that you realize sleep is different for every kid, but it may be time to let go of any particular expectation. If other kids can go to sleep by 9pm... Whatever. You don't have other kids. But having that expectation, and seeing it missed, seeing it fail, every single night is going to drive you batty. (Been there, done that.) Since you cannot change the kid (can't make the sleep), the only thing you can do is change your expectation.
Good luck. The kids who have trouble sleep are TOUGH and can be really really draining.
Fear/anxiety issues aside and regardless of what time he falls asleep, I don't think you're understanding HOW consistent and explicit you have to be with your follow-through if you mean "stay in your room". For us, it was "stay in bed". That meant DD didn't even get to put her feet on the floor before one of us was in the room putting her back. If you are allowing your son to hang out for 5, 10, 30, whatever minutes, then that's totally negating whatever you said before about staying in your room. If he made it out of his room and to your doorway, that's too far. Do you have a baby monitor so you can watch him? I'm just saying if you mean "stay in your room", then he really shouldn't even be getting past the doorway. If he's ok with being in his room(with lights on, door open, whatever he needs to help with anxiety issues), then I think you need to enforce the stay in your room more consistently.
since you mentioned daycare I'm sure you're a working mom and this is a true night mare. DD went through a faze where if I tried to sleep with her, she'd play with me, now if I sleep with her, she'll sleep and if she starts to play, I'll leave and then she'll sleep if I sleep with her. Most nights DH gets puts her to sleep and she's good, but on hard nights, I'll sleep go sleep with her. Even 9 months pregnant in a twin size bed, it was still better then being up or having her kicking us in her bed. Now if the baby wakes up, if I had slept in her bed I'll get up, take care of the baby, and go back to my bed. If she gets up, I'm back in her bed. It sounds like alot of moving around during the night, but it happens pretty fast, everyone goes back to sleep pretty quickly, and since we all need to be out of the house by 6:30 am, you need to do what you need to do.
Yeah I know.
I'm just tired of being tired, of never getting sleep, of dreading bedtime, of constantly having to discuss a plan of attack for dealing with whatever the sleep related issue of the month is with my husband on a regular basis. It is just draining. His sister had sleep issues during the night for the first 2 yrs with constant waking and then night terrors and he was not bad and then they switched and it has been more him for the last year than her and it feels like it'll never end.
One day it'll be a distant memory & no big deal, I know. I just needed to vent & see if others have dealt with this.
I totally know how you feel. There were SO many times I sat outside DD's room in the dark hallway thinking about all the other stuff I still needed to do that evening. At some point, I rearranged the furniture and redecorated DD's room entirely in my head(that was when I was sitting in her doorway). We couldn't sit on our laptops or anything with a light on because it was too distracting for DD.......so it was just sitting there in the dark, doing nothing. I hated bedtime too for a while. And you have two, so I can't imagine how hard it is to juggle both issues at once. Good luck!
I've skimmed the replies, so this might have been addressed, but...
ds is the same way. Naps at daycare most days, does not nap at home and hasn't for the past six months. I let it go. When he naps at daycare, he's not tired for bed until 9:30 ish (rather, he's not ready for sleep). I want my time back too...instead of having him go to bed before he's tired, I just "ignore" him and let him play/read by himself in the livingroom while I veg on the couch. It gives me some down time, so I am not doing a ton of engagement with him, but he's not in bed wide awake. Probably not recommended, but it's working for us.
Ds also has some anxiety issues (not as large as what you're experiencing, I don't think. For us, the door thing was an issue too. He wants it open, but we're not wanting him to come out of his room, so we told him if he's yelling or comes out, then the door gets closed. It only takes one time (maybe once a month) of us closing the door and he follows our rules. And when we do close the door, he cries and we give him a second chance, which he always takes and always does well. Again, probably not recommended, but it works for us.
I'll admit I didn't read any of the other responses so I'm sorry if this is similar advice but I'm pretty sure we must have the same child, right down to the fears/anxieties.
We phased out his nap shortly after he turned three. He's with a babysitter during the day so that made it a little easier than being at daycare. For the first few weeks, we had her wake him up after one hour of nap and we kept bedtime late. Then, we shortened nap to 45 minutes and moved bedtime a little earlier. Then, down to 30 minute nap with the same earlier bedtime. Now we are at no nap with a 7:30 or 8pm bedtime. He goes to sleep easily every night. It was rough in the beginning due to meltdowns at about 5 or 6pm but we just pushed through it and we are finally at a place where he can usually get to 7:30pm without any trouble.
As for the light at bedtime, we are also concerned that DS sleeps with a light on. We put a light on a dimmer. It's on at full when he falls asleep and then when I go to bed, I dim it. I've been progressively dimming it further so now it's pretty dark in his room but not pitch black.
Good luck. I hope this helps.
It sounds to me like he simply isn't tired enough
my friends whose toddlers have dropped their naps said the transition is hard - crabby early evening for awhile - but at least they sttn and go down well - you may just have to do that.....
If you're at your wits end I really do think you should consider a gate or closing the door too - then he'll really know he has to stay in there - it's his room.... not prison - he'll be fine! You may only need to do it for a week or 2 anyway, til he gets the message that bedtime means stay in your room - sounds like you've tried just about everything else
GL