- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
February 2012 Moms
kristin172429
member
FACEBOOK FEB 12 BUMPIES ADMIN - POST & PM ME TO JOIN
A NBR Letter I think people should read (sorta political)
kristin172429
member
From a friend of a friend.....
"Today, I wrote this letter to an old friend who expressed his support for Romney on my Facebook page. I felt the need to share.
Hey ( ),
Listen, I know you didn't mean any harm commenting on this post and I like you, we had some great times growing up. But Romney and Ryan believe that I am less than you. They believe I am a second class citizen and don't deserve the same rights that you had the privilege of being born into simply by being straight. They want to add a constitutional amendment that will ban gay marriage forever. It will set us back decades and ensure that I never legally have the opportunity to have a family or a partner in my lifetime.
They also believe that being at your partner's side when he/she is dying is a benefit, not a civil right. They could keep me from my partner dying in a hospital. Could you even imagine something like that in your own life? Being separated from your wife on her death bed? Could you imagine your marriage never being recognized and being told that your family is not a family and you do not deserve any federal rights that comes with marriage. Over 1100 rights. Did you know that? 1100.
Ryan doesn't believe in the hate crimes act fought unwaveringly for by Judy Shepard, mother of Matthew Shepard, murdered for being gay in Wyoming. Murdered for being gay. Could you imagine if I was murdered for being gay? Could you really look my mom in the eye and say 'oh well, we can not prosecute this crime as a hate crime'?
I know there are important issues involved in this campaign. I know people are suffering and the economy has not improved at a rate we all wish it would. Yes, people are suffering but the gay and lesbian community has been suffering for hundreds of years and I am so tired of it. So tired of feeling that I am less than. So tired of knowing I have friends on here who will vote for someone who will keep me a second class citizen for my entire lifetime. I have already spent half a lifetime hiding, half a lifetime conforming. It is exhausting, demeaning and I am worn out. I want to love myself full out. I want a president who can look me in the eye and say 'You are equal!' 'You are equal to everyone else in this country and I will fight for your rights. The time is now and it is long overdue.' Romney and Ryan could not look me in the eye and say that and I feel sorry for every gay and questioning child who might have to listen to a president who believes that he/she is not equal. Children will take their lives. It is the WORST form of trickle down bullying and it absolutely splits my heart in half. When the president says you are less than, it gives permission to every authority figure, every politician, every teacher, every bully on the playground to push you around and bully you and treat you less than. It is dangerous and lives will be lost.
If this is not important to you, please remove me from your friends list. I need people in my life who love me and consider me 100% equal.
Max"
FACEBOOK FEB 12 BUMPIES ADMIN - POST & PM ME TO JOIN
This discussion has been closed.
Re: A NBR Letter I think people should read (sorta political)
So this person doesn't want to be "friends" with people who vote for Romney/Ryan for their above stated reasons? That's kinda sad. I don't think who someone votes for or supports (or their ideals, opinions, etc.) should determine your friendship status. That's not what my friendships are based on and I definitely have friends who will not be voting the way I would "like" them to. That's quite a letter though.
I don't think we should try to dictate our friends' politics, but I can definitely understand not wanting to be friends with someone who doesn't support you as a person.
There's nothing wrong with this man wanting to surround himself with only people who support his life choices.
212 Facebook Admin.
That's his call, yes. But I still think it's silly to say "you're being exclusive so I'm going to exclude you."
I don't agree with his lifestyle choices, but there's nothing silly about a person standing up for their beliefs.
212 Facebook Admin.
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
Agreed. Except when they contradict themselves.
Agreed. It's wrong on so many levels, and life is way too short to spend it spewing hatred and ignorance.
212 Facebook Admin.
? I don't see how he contradicted himself. [maybe I'm just too tired to catch it?] oh well. I'm off to bed ladies. G'night!
212 Facebook Admin.
I think there is a difference between "spewing hatred" and disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choice. If I had a "friend" who was incessantly spouting off about how terrible they thought homosexual people were, how they should have no rights and be kicked out of the country, and can totally see that being a HUGE issue and could not continue a friendship of any sort with them. I could be civil to them, but certainly not "friends." That type of thing, to me, would be "spewing hatred." Simply disagreeing with the lifestyle of homosexual individuals (or any other matter) in and of itself would not cause me to not be friends with someone, but taking it to the level that I would call "spewing hatred" would.
To me, it was at the end where he said he'd prefer if whoever he was writing this to would just "unfriend" him if this wasn't "important to them." I read that as- "if you don't agree with me, then you are being exclusive, so I'm going to exclude you from my friends." He's being exclusive while asking someone to be inclusive. At least that's how I read it. I'm sure others see it differently and that's fine.
This particular instance isn't about agreeing or not, per se. He is saying that if you are my friend and you do not feel that I deserve the same rights as you, that I am less than equal, that my love is not as good/valid/real as yours, then maybe we shouldn't be friends. And if they do believe that person is equal, then how can they vote for a man who is looking to destroy that? This isn't a "political issue" he is taking sides on. This is his life. This is who he is. I can completely understand him not wanting to be friends with someone who doesn't get that.
Unfortunately, this election holds some pretty heavy weight when it comes to civil rights. I think every voter needs to have a full awareness of what their vote is saying. Your vote for a candidate may be for a single issue, but it is important to understand the repercussions of everything else that candidate stands for. Civil rights is a big one. Women's rights is another (everything, not just abortion)...
okay, I'll refrain from going into this cause it would get really long!
FACEBOOK FEB 12 BUMPIES ADMIN - POST & PM ME TO JOIN
Well... I used to have a bunch of friends who were very conservative. I dated one of them, actually. I am not conservative, and we disagreed about several things, including this.
We had a lot of intense discussions about a lot of sensitive topics. At the very least, it was interesting. At best, everyone involved had a chance to voice their opinion and listen to the other side, hopefully with an open mind since we were all close and there was no animosity in our discussions.
I think it's easier to change someone's mind if you're on friendly terms. Unfriending someone, while noble, doesn't further the cause IMO. So I can see where NL is coming from.
I do like the letter. I think it would be a great way to start conversation.
ITA. I think there's a bit of a difference between someone who "likes" Romney and someone who posts several times a day about how they support what Romney is doing to limit civil rights for homosexuals or women. I have unfriended a Romney supporter on FB. He was bugging the hell out of me and there was no talking to him.
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
I had to think about this one because there was something off about it to me. I think klemck nailed the point for me. I understand where the writer is coming from. I've been that ignorant person who thought the world was black and white and obviously homosexuality was wrong...until I had friends who were gay. And then my view shifted. The problem is that this battle over love is fought with hatred. The letter was written with a tone of anger and for good reason! But can put the other person on the defensive.
At the same time, I completely agree with Nory. As a Christian myself, I know that God calls me to love my neighbors regardless of sexuality. We have no right to judge each other; that is Gods job. Sometimes Christians are too busy being the police instead of the servants that we are supposed to be.
DH and I do not consider ourselves Christians in the strictest sense of the word. We have too many Buddhist tendencies. But I love you for this. And FWIW - we believe that there are too many people of every religion policing others and NOT really living by their faith. Makes me NUTS.
Or does when I am not working super hard to be all Buddhist about it.
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. Choosing to act on your desires (have a homosexual relationship) is the "lifestyle choice" I was referring to. Wasn't try to start a debate on if someone "chooses" their sexual orientation or not.
True. But I think people sometimes overlook the fact that just because the president feels that XYZ should be done doesn't mean that's what's going to happen just because they are elected to office. It definitely takes a lot of other people besides the president to get laws passed or overturned. Thankfully we don't have a dictatorship where our presidents' views are the law without question.
I agree with this 150%. Whether you support equal rights or not, abortion or not, this is what it comes down to.
<a href="http://lilypie.com/"><img src="http://lb2f.lilypie.com/Bbotm4.png" width="400" height="80" border="0" alt="Lilypie Second Birthday tickers" /></a>
<br>
<a href="http://lilypie.com/"><img src="http://lb1f.lilypie.com/dt6Dm4.png" width="400" height="80" border="0" alt="Lilypie First Birthday tickers" /></a>
The letter makes a lot of excellent points, most of which I agree with. But I wonder what the person who the letter was being sent to was commenting on. Were they commenting on their support of the Romney/Ryan ticket, or specifically commenting on their social agenda and their stance on homosexuals? If they were just commenting on their support of the Romney/Ryan ticket then I think it's pretty harsh to say that they have to choose between their political beliefs and their friendship with "Max".
I said in an UO or FFFC that I don't understand how women can support the Republican ticket given their stance on women's rights. People replied that they can because they are anti-abortion, or because they value other things that the Republicans place a higher priority on (and that they don't really think Congress will allow major changes to women's rights). While I don't agree with those views I certainly can't imagine saying to someone who feels that Obama will be the fiscal death of this country that they have to choose between their choice for president or their friendship with me. Just as I think it's extreme how some are categorizing Obama as being awful for the country and that he's going to drive us into a deeper depression, people on the other side could easily feel that Democrats are blowing the war on women's rights and on homosexual's rights out of proportion. Again, I don't agree with that, but I understand that point of view.
I just don't understand basing your friendship with someone solely on their political affiliation. Obviously if the original person was saying that he/she agrees with their stance on gay marriage that's completely different, but Republicans and Democrats have many different beliefs and I don't think it's fair to pigeonhole a person and make assumptions about them based on their political affiliation. I place a huge value on social causes, which is why I could never fathom voting for Romney/Ryan, but would never call my father a bigot or prejudiced for doing so because I know that his #1 concern is the economy. Very, very few people agree with everything that either candidate stands for and we all make the best choice we can based on our individual priorities.
Can you imagine what it would be like if someone asked you not to act on your heterosexual desires?
I get what you're saying. My opinion on the whole situation has religious reasons running all through it. So I'm sure no one wants to hear my response and I won't bother posting it because I'll bet my bottom dollar I would get flamed.
I am a Catholic and sadly this is the belief of the Catholic Church but I don't agree with it. I worked for the church in college and there was a something called the Courage Fund that went towards counseling for homosexuals and helping them to deal with their "desires". Apparently the belief is that you CAN be gay. You can be whatever you want. You just can't ACT on it. Total outdated thinking but there's the church for ya. Again, relate it back to your own child and i think we would all feel that civil rights for our children and freedom to be an equal member of society is the goal.
Seriously. Either put on your big girl panties and post. Or don't.
But stop playing the victim card. You aren't a victim. For the record, I voted for you to stick around, just because I am always interested in hearing opinions from people whose beliefs are polar opposite of mine. But, that being said, if you are about to try to pervert my religion into being a religion of hate and intolerance using only very carefully-selected passages from the Old Testament that were written before the New Covenant, then yes, I will probably flame you.
Actually, I'm not about to do any of that, because like I said, there's no point in posting a stance that no one else on here has. Lesson learned. I don't think I'm a victim. I just have opinions maybe none of you share. That's it.
You whine about people judging what you post based on past posts, then post passive aggressive stuff like this that just brings more negative attention to you. You clearly have different views then the majority of this board (which is fine) - either own it and stand by your beliefs or don't bring it up.
FWIW, I don't care either way. If you don't want to engage in debates about your beliefs that is 100% understandable, especially knowing that on this particular board your beliefs are likely in the minority. But responses like this are annoying.
Yep, THAT would be silly indeed.
Yeah, Catholic here, too, though we had a fairly liberal priest (after a very conservative, very messed up one) during my teen years, so that probably had an effect.
What I don't understand is why our beliefs have to encroach into the law. Some things, like abortion, I get. Marriage and other civil rights, though, I don't. NL, if you'd be willing to talk to me more about it but you're not comfortable discussing here, feel free to PM me. I'd be interested to hear more about what you think on the matter, since I don't fully understand this perspective.
I missed this thread last night. I think the video in this article sums things up very well. Why should the government be allowed to say who can or cannot marry. Shouldn't that be up to the church that the couple approaches? Republicans say we need less government, but then in the same breath try to control who can marry and what health choices a woman can make. Intolerance masked as 'religious beliefs' is still intolerance. I was raised Catholic but I distanced myself from the church a long time ago - their stance on homosexuality was one of many reasons why.
https://minnesotaforequality.com/priest-minister-rabbi-walk-bar/
Consider yourself PMed at least sometime during today or tomorrow. I'll page you.
This, all the way. Ideally, I'd just like government to get out of marriage completely, including heterosexual marriage. It makes no sense to me.
Sorry to annoy you... just didn't think TB was a very good place for a heated debate on politics.
Well I think it's as fine a place as any, personally, but if you don't that's fine. But if you don't want to get into it why mention that you have an opinion but won't state it because you'll be flamed? Just don't say anything! It's like the vaguebooking on FB that people complain about all of the time.
If you're going to participate in a debate, then just participate.
My opinion is the minority. I know this, but since we're having a healthy debate, I want to weigh in.
I believe what the Bible says about marriage. One man, one woman. I think that being homosexual is a lifestyle choice. BUT I cannot judge anyone for their choices. This may get me flamed, but here it is. I think homosexuality is a sin. Will you see me standing on the street corners holding a terribly hateful sign about homosexuality? No. Because I believe it to be a sin, who am I to judge them?! We alllllll sin. No sin is worse than my own. Therefore, we're equal.
I have gay friends and we agree to disagree.
I used to be much more close minded than I am now. I don't think that making gay marriage illegal is going to stop gay people from...being gay! A gay couple can adopt a child, but cannot get married? I think that is crazy!
Easy on the flames (:
Got it.
No flames. I agree with the majority of it.
I pretty much agree with everything you said! So you are not alone.