F/U to the NL drama.

lancyjo

Sorry I've been quiet ladies, we were at a wedding so I wasn't checking back here. And, to be honest, I just wanted to forget about it for a while. NL did pm me, and gave what she feels is an apology. Here's how I feel about it.

1. If you're brazen enough to flame me and shame me publicly on TB, you can apologize to me publicly on TB.

2. I don't feel like it is a complete apology when it's followed by something like paragraph 3.

3. She owed ALL of the working moms an apology.

4. Nateslady, here's my response to your pm: Thank you for your message. It's nice to hear an apology, I just doubt that you would have done so without prodding from our fellow bumpies. Stay around here if you like, it makes no difference to me really. Just please choose your words a bit more carefully from now on.

Here's the message she sent me. [see 1 for why I feel it's ok to post this]
"In response to what you said here: "She basically told me that I was a terrible person for working, that it was my fault I was on antidepressants, and that my issues are affecting my family."



I don't think any of the mothers on this board are terrible if they work, stay at home, buy brand new carseats, buy used carseats, take their kids to Europe every 3 years or don't, etc. None of that does or doesn't make bad mother.

I am truly sorry that what I said affected you so deeply that you ended up in tears, I certainly wasn't out to make anyone cry.

I remember you stated in that FFFC thread that you were on antidepressants at least in part because you had been so depressed about going back to work and being away from your daughter. I was confused why, if the pain/guilt of being away from your DD while at work was affecting you so negatively and so deeply, you would not simply stop working and be home with your DD instead IF you were working more out of just the plain desire to work outside the home for whatever reason than to pay the bills. It doesn't seem worth the tradeoff to me, to be THAT upset about working, yet still doing it even when you don't have to. Even the gain of whatever form that may be the result of working doesn't seem worth how much you are paying for it.

I was on antidepressants for most of my life. I've been off of them for about 2 years now. I know that while I was dealing with depression, my family really was affected by it and that only made me more depressed. I hope that if I could have done anything at all to lessen the depression, I would have tried it.

I'm pretty sure you don't give a flip about any of this, but I truly am sorry that I made what you're dealing with suck even worse by saying what I said. "

Lena122

I think that regardless of how much backpedaling she does now, she has made it clear what she thinks of working mothers and daycares. To the best of my knowledge, no one else on this board agrees with her and yet several people were legitimately hurt by her (not just slightly offended, but legitimately hurt). For that, I think she need to just GBCB already so that we can all move on.

Seriously, this happened like 3 weeks ago right? That's like freaking 20 years in TB time. 

HattieLove

Lena122:

I think that regardless of how much backpedaling she does now, she has made it clear what she thinks of working mothers and daycares. To the best of my knowledge, no one else on this board agrees with her and yet several people were legitimately hurt by her (not just slightly offended, but legitimately hurt). For that, I think she need to just GBCB already so that we can all move on.

Seriously, this happened like 3 weeks ago right? That's like freaking 20 years in TB time. 

I kind of feel like she hasn't done much backpedaling. She didn't really take back anything she said or apologize to working moms. That's what's weird to me.

And I was just saying how this has been so long in internet-time! But it keeps being brought up by various events. And there's been follow-up mini-dramas, like the car seat stuff yesterday, and the nursing in public stuff a few days ago, just to name a few.

LancyJo, I just want to say that I agree very strongly with the first three points you made in this post. Not that I didn't agree with the fourth, it just wasn't an opinion. :-)

 

lancyjo

HattieLove:

Lena122:

I think that regardless of how much backpedaling she does now, she has made it clear what she thinks of working mothers and daycares. To the best of my knowledge, no one else on this board agrees with her and yet several people were legitimately hurt by her (not just slightly offended, but legitimately hurt). For that, I think she need to just GBCB already so that we can all move on.

Seriously, this happened like 3 weeks ago right? That's like freaking 20 years in TB time. 

I kind of feel like she hasn't done much backpedaling. She didn't really take back anything she said or apologize to working moms. That's what's weird to me.

And I was just saying how this has been so long in internet-time! But it keeps being brought up by various events. And there's been follow-up mini-dramas, like the car seat stuff yesterday, and the nursing in public stuff a few days ago, just to name a few.

LancyJo, I just want to say that I agree very strongly with the first three points you made in this post. Not that I didn't agree with the fourth, it just wasn't an opinion. :-)

 

Thanks Hattie. :] I have to admit that I think you've got a very old soul for someone so young. You're my baby sister's age, but light years more mature and wise.

Lena122

I guess you're right, she really hasn't apologized. Maybe I meant "justifying." She keeps trying to justify what she said and make it seem like it wasn't that bad when in reality it was really hurtful.

HattieLove

lancyjo:

HattieLove:

Lena122:

I think that regardless of how much backpedaling she does now, she has made it clear what she thinks of working mothers and daycares. To the best of my knowledge, no one else on this board agrees with her and yet several people were legitimately hurt by her (not just slightly offended, but legitimately hurt). For that, I think she need to just GBCB already so that we can all move on.

Seriously, this happened like 3 weeks ago right? That's like freaking 20 years in TB time. 

I kind of feel like she hasn't done much backpedaling. She didn't really take back anything she said or apologize to working moms. That's what's weird to me.

And I was just saying how this has been so long in internet-time! But it keeps being brought up by various events. And there's been follow-up mini-dramas, like the car seat stuff yesterday, and the nursing in public stuff a few days ago, just to name a few.

LancyJo, I just want to say that I agree very strongly with the first three points you made in this post. Not that I didn't agree with the fourth, it just wasn't an opinion. :-)

 

Thanks Hattie. :] I have to admit that I think you've got a very old soul for someone so young. You're my baby sister's age, but light years more mature and wise.

Thank you so much! :-D 

sooner1981

lancyjo:

Here's the message she sent me. [see 1 for why I feel it's ok to post this] "In response to what you said here: "She basically told me that I was a terrible person for working, that it was my fault I was on antidepressants, and that my issues are affecting my family."

I don't think any of the mothers on this board are terrible if they work, stay at home, buy brand new carseats, buy used carseats, take their kids to Europe every 3 years or don't, etc. None of that does or doesn't make bad mother.

I am truly sorry that what I said affected you so deeply that you ended up in tears, I certainly wasn't out to make anyone cry. I remember you stated in that FFFC thread that you were on antidepressants at least in part because you had been so depressed about going back to work and being away from your daughter. I was confused why, if the pain/guilt of being away from your DD while at work was affecting you so negatively and so deeply, you would not simply stop working and be home with your DD instead IF you were working more out of just the plain desire to work outside the home for whatever reason than to pay the bills. It doesn't seem worth the tradeoff to me, to be THAT upset about working, yet still doing it even when you don't have to. Even the gain of whatever form that may be the result of working doesn't seem worth how much you are paying for it. I was on antidepressants for most of my life. I've been off of them for about 2 years now. I know that while I was dealing with depression, my family really was affected by it and that only made me more depressed. I hope that if I could have done anything at all to lessen the depression, I would have tried it. I'm pretty sure you don't give a flip about any of this, but I truly am sorry that I made what you're dealing with suck even worse by saying what I said. "

Addressing the part where NL pretends that she doesn't care what choices we all make as mothers, because nothing makes a person a good or bad mother:  First, you said crystal clear in the FFFC post (and then backed it up several additional times in response to posters asking you to clarify) that you do, indeed, think moms who work outside the home when their families might still be able to pay the bills (and apparently buy used car seats from unknown strangers) without their income don't love their kiddos as much as you and probably suffer more mental health issues.  Second, I think buying a used carseat from an unknown person when you are an able-bodied adult who could go out and make $40 to buy a brand-new, safety-tested carseat from Walmart does, actually, make you a bad mother.  Or at least a mother that probably shouldn't be judging too hard the parenting choices made by other mothers on this board.  I bet your kiddo would get a lot more beneift out of you leaving her for 4 hours some random day to go make $40 to buy a new car seat, than she would benefit from your "OMG I AM THE GREATEST MOM IN THE WORLD" routine for those same 4 hours.

Also, an "apology" that only states that you are "so sorry that your words affected Lancy" is not an apology.  Not even close.  My mom taught my brother and I when we were little that an apology has to apologize for your actual actions/words in order to be genuine.  If I called you an ignorant a-hole, and then, in order to save face with others, said "Gee, if NL got sad when I called her an ignorant a-hole, I guess I apologize for her sadness, that was certainly not my intent in making that statement," that doesn't really sound that genuine, does it? 

An apology would have been if you had said, "Gee, Lancy, now that I think about it, I realize that my comments were ignorant.  After reading about how other families work, I have realized that just because I have made certain lifestyle choices for my family, the choices I have made aren't necessarily what works best for everyone.  Now that I see that, I really feel bad about what I said, and I hope that you will forgive my ignorant comments."  That is a sincere apology (if you mean it, of course). 

People throw around these kinds of "insincere" apologies all the time-- "I'm sorry that you felt hurt when I called you a slutt...," instead of, "I'm sorry I called you a slutt, and now I realize I was wrong to do so."  It is the "blame the victim" mentality of "I wasn't really wrong, but I am sorry if you are so emotionally thin-skinned that you couldn't handle my honest assessment of you."  Super annoying...

FYI--my mom was a working mom when we were little, so I have no idea how she was actually able to convey any wisdom at all to my family.  Must have been a fluke! 

lancyjo

sooner1981:

lancyjo:

Here's the message she sent me. [see 1 for why I feel it's ok to post this] "In response to what you said here: "She basically told me that I was a terrible person for working, that it was my fault I was on antidepressants, and that my issues are affecting my family."

I don't think any of the mothers on this board are terrible if they work, stay at home, buy brand new carseats, buy used carseats, take their kids to Europe every 3 years or don't, etc. None of that does or doesn't make bad mother.

I am truly sorry that what I said affected you so deeply that you ended up in tears, I certainly wasn't out to make anyone cry. I remember you stated in that FFFC thread that you were on antidepressants at least in part because you had been so depressed about going back to work and being away from your daughter. I was confused why, if the pain/guilt of being away from your DD while at work was affecting you so negatively and so deeply, you would not simply stop working and be home with your DD instead IF you were working more out of just the plain desire to work outside the home for whatever reason than to pay the bills. It doesn't seem worth the tradeoff to me, to be THAT upset about working, yet still doing it even when you don't have to. Even the gain of whatever form that may be the result of working doesn't seem worth how much you are paying for it. I was on antidepressants for most of my life. I've been off of them for about 2 years now. I know that while I was dealing with depression, my family really was affected by it and that only made me more depressed. I hope that if I could have done anything at all to lessen the depression, I would have tried it. I'm pretty sure you don't give a flip about any of this, but I truly am sorry that I made what you're dealing with suck even worse by saying what I said. "

Addressing the part where NL pretends that she doesn't care what choices we all make as mothers, because nothing makes a person a good or bad mother:  First, you said crystal clear in the FFFC post (and then backed it up several additional times in response to posters asking you to clarify) that you do, indeed, think moms who work outside the home when their families might still be able to pay the bills (and apparently buy used car seats from unknown strangers) without their income don't love their kiddos as much as you and probably suffer more mental health issues.  Second, I think buying a used carseat from an unknown person when you are an able-bodied adult who could go out and make $40 to buy a brand-new, safety-tested carseat from Walmart does, actually, make you a bad mother.  Or at least a mother that probably shouldn't be judging too hard the parenting choices made by other mothers on this board.  I bet your kiddo would get a lot more beneift out of you leaving her for 4 hours some random day to go make $40 to buy a new car seat, than she would benefit from your "OMG I AM THE GREATEST MOM IN THE WORLD" routine for those same 4 hours.

Also, an "apology" that only states that you are "so sorry that your words affected Lancy" is not an apology.  Not even close.  My mom taught my brother and I when we were little that an apology has to apologize for your actual actions/words in order to be genuine.  If I called you an ignorant a-hole, and then, in order to save face with others, said "Gee, if NL got sad when I called her an ignorant a-hole, I guess I apologize for her sadness, that was certainly not my intent in making that statement," that doesn't really sound that genuine, does it? 

An apology would have been if you had said, "Gee, Lancy, now that I think about it, I realize that my comments were ignorant.  After reading about how other families work, I have realized that just because I have made certain lifestyle choices for my family, the choices I have made aren't necessarily what works best for everyone.  Now that I see that, I really feel bad about what I said, and I hope that you will forgive my ignorant comments."  That is a sincere apology (if you mean it, of course). 

People throw around these kinds of "insincere" apologies all the time-- "I'm sorry that you felt hurt when I called you a slutt...," instead of, "I'm sorry I called you a slutt, and now I realize I was wrong to do so."  It is the "blame the victim" mentality of "I wasn't really wrong, but I am sorry if you are so emotionally thin-skinned that you couldn't handle my honest assessment of you."  Super annoying...

FYI--my mom was a working mom when we were little, so I have no idea how she was actually able to convey any wisdom at all to my family.  Must have been a fluke! 

NatesLady1309

Clearly, there is nothing I can say that would TRULY make a difference to any of you. Sooooo... moving on now. The end.

livinginashoe

 

And also this

 

noryang

NatesLady1309:

Clearly, there is nothing I can say that would TRULY make a difference to any of you. Sooooo... moving on now. The end.

I don't necessarily agree with the name calling etc but I think the fundamental problem right now is your ...failure to commit. You have not really committed to a public meal culpa. Nor have you committed to defending your position unapologetically.

Just like you cannot understand for a second why anyone would want to work (personally I like the idea if being a positive role model for my daughter by exemplifying independence, is cal responsibility, initiative, etc) many of the board members really can't understand where you are coming from. FWIW the body of your posts read a bit like you have a subservient and very old fashioned relationship with your husband. This many not be the case at all. But it is how it reads a lot of the time.