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Special Needs
CaptainSerious
member
Blown away by class visit...in a bad way
CaptainSerious
member
My 3rd grade son has dyslexia and we are unhappy at how his IEP is currently being implemented. As one alternative, we were offered the opportunity to move him into a special program class that has 10 students with similar language learning disabilities, all 3rd-5th graders. I went today to check it out.
It was awful. There was a teacher and two paraprofessionals. The teacher talked in a derogatory way about the kids to the paras--in front of all the kids while she lead class! The three most outrageous were:
- When a student raised his hand hoping to give an answer to an exercise, she looked at the para and said, "Oh, no. I'm afraid. Did he have his hand up?"
- When a new student to the class, who was clearly learning English as a Second Language, gave the same unintelligible one-word answer to a question several times, she didn't ask her if she knew the word in English or to try to describe it in another way, she just rolled her eyes and said to us (who were observing her class), "I just can't understand her."
- When each child was asked for an example and she wrote their answers on the board, she realized she was one short. Rather than figuring out who hadn't given an answer and addressing them, she just shrugged and said, "Well, that's okay. I won't get every kid every time."
I mean if someone were writing a satire about the terrible state of special education, this would be the teacher/class. They didn't work with the kids until they understood a concept, they just coaxed the correct answer out of them and moved on. If a child didn't get the concept at the beginning of the lesson, they certainly didn't get it by the end. They never explained anything in more than one way, they didn't use manipulative's, they didn't break the kids up into groups based on their skill levels, and they talked at the children rather than explaining things to them.
The kicker is, this was all while I, and two child study team members, were there observing. If this is how they are when someone's watching, I can't imagine how bad it is when they are alone, especially at the end of the day when everyone's tired and cranky.
Clearly, my son will never attend that class. But this is really bothering me, and I'm wondering if I should make a point of telling them just how awful this class was. If I didn't have a vested interest, I'd probably say something just to feel like I did what I could, but I am fighting for changes in my older son's IEP implementation and, as soon as that's settled, about to fight the fact that they said my younger son's not eligible for services (the reason they gave simply isn't legal). I don't want to rock the boat any more than I have to, but those poor kids. Some of them clearly understand they are being picked on by their teacher, and none of them are getting any of the extra help they were promised. It just kills me....
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Blown away by class visit...in a bad way
Oh my.
I was shocked, because neither one seemed to have a reaction--to the point that I thought I might be overreacting. As the day goes on, though, it just bothers me more and more.
Afterward, when I talked with M's child study team manager from his current school (who was one of the two people in the classroom), he literally raised an eyebrow when I told him that the way the teacher spoke about the children left me unsettled, but he didn't give any other response. He did tell me during that conversation (which spanned several topics), that he believed my son would be better served in his current placement with the changes we are discussing and that he shared many of my other concerns about this program's suitability for my son.
hmm. Is the study team manager from the same district? I can see why he probably kept his mouth shut.
I would write a polite letter to the teacher's supervisor/principal and voice your concerns, how you felt unsettled, you're unsure if this is standard practice and not an educational expert but....etc. etc.......Maybe word it as an "uniformed observer" without making any judgements.(if possible) I would cc the child study team members. More than likely they are not in a position to make waves.
I can totally see how you don't want to make waves either, but jeez, how awful. My heart is so sad for those children. You could wait until your son's situation is settled and signed on the dotted line and then go for it.
I'm very bothered by this!
Auntie, I know you have responded to some of my other posts, and I haven't always provided all the answers to your questions, mostly because they are so in-depth and time wouldn't allow. I appreciate your insight and view on things, and always read your posts, but just am not always in a place/time when I can reply. Sometimes when I get the chance, it's so long after, I decide not to resurrect the post. That being said, I will try to go point by point, here.
It was awful. There was a teacher and two paraprofessionals. The teacher talked in a derogatory way about the kids to the paras--in front of all the kids while she lead class! The three most outrageous were:
- When a student raised his hand hoping to give an answer to an exercise, she looked at the para and said, "Oh, no. I'm afraid. Did he have his hand up?"
These classes form a sort of tight, family-like atmosphere with teasing, chiding and lots of mock horror. I could totally see DS's teacher saying such a thing to be funny.
I actually did think this was possibly the case, but there was no shared humor. No one laughed, no one made jokes, and there was no levity in the classroom. In fact, there seemed to be very little interaction between the children, even when they were all working ?independently? and talking through their work. It?s only a few weeks into the school year, but I didn?t get a ?family? vibe at all. The teacher did not address these remarks to the children, and the children did not respond to them.
In fact, looking back, I almost feel that the teacher was trying to justify herself to us. In this case, it seems like she wanted us to know before she called on him that she did not expect him to have the correct answer, so we didn?t think she thought he knew it if he fell flat on his face. When her prediction came true and he had a lot of time with the question, she was therefore vindicated, because she didn?t expect him to know it anyway. At least that?s the closest I can get to an explanation.
- When a new student to the class, who was clearly learning English as a Second Language, gave the same unintelligible one-word answer to a question several times, she didn't ask her if she knew the word in English or to try to describe it in another way, she just rolled her eyes and said to us (who were observing her class), "I just can't understand her."
This child should not be in her class. ELL and LD are not that same thing and are not served by the same teaching strategies.
Perhaps not, but there were at least two children with ESL needs in the class. The district only provided ESL for half a day, and the rest of the time the children are mainstreamed. If the child has a LD, then the portion of the day they are not in ESL, they are in their other placement. It is this precise set-up that made us put my son into a private school when he first came (he was adopted from Peru in 2010 and we didn?t know at the time that he also had a learning disability), because we didn?t want him to be lost for the half a day that he didn?t have ESL.
- When each child was asked for an example and she wrote their answers on the board, she realized she was one short. Rather than figuring out who hadn't given an answer and addressing them, she just shrugged and said, "Well, that's okay. I won't get every kid every time."
Sounds like she felt your judgement. Some teachers don't do well with an audience. So, one kid didn't give an answer, should she have interupted the flow of the class to sort it out? Do you not think she has a pretty good idea and a reason for not pursueing this?
I don?t know how she could have felt my judgment. This was the first thing she said that made me raise an eyebrow (they were not listed in order above, but in the order that I remembered them). Yes, clearly, I was there to observe her class, but she is the one who suggested we do so, and I imagine she?s used to it, because our district has a policy of all teachers being observed several times a week by random supervisors (including supervisors from other schools that they don?t know).
As for interrupting the flow of the class, it was a time called ?morning meeting.? The kids all were given several different kinds of questions to work on, and when time was up, they went over their answers. Each child said their math fact, and some of them didn?t have them and put one together with the teacher/para when they were called. They did this with at least three or four students. The teacher wasn?t sure who didn?t provide one, because she had to count them (she wrote them on the board) to find out if she had an answer from each child. What would the harm had been to work with the final child the way they did with the others? That child was just never called on to provide his/her answer. In fact, he/she may have had one ready to go.
I mean if someone were writing a satire about the terrible state of special education, this would be the teacher/class. They didn't work with the kids until they understood a concept, they just coaxed the correct answer out of them and moved on. If a child didn't get the concept at the beginning of the lesson, they certainly didn't get it by the end. They never explained anything in more than one way, they didn't use manipulatives, they didn't break the kids up into groups based on their skill levels, and they talked at the children rather than explaining things to them.
Were they doing math, perhaps? There are certain math curricula that are designed to introduce concepts without gaining 100% understanding in a class. Everyday Math comes to mind. It's totally inappropriate for kids with math learning disabilities but many district math coordinators love it.
Most kids with LD also have some degree of ADHD as well. For this group, the use of manipulatives can do more harm than good. Manipulative can be a fun approch for some kids, but I had a ban of math manipulatives written into DS's IEP at this age.
10 kids kind of is a small group. Talk vs explain. Not sure I get this.
The ?morning meeting? was mostly math and the next thing they worked on was language arts (subject/predicate), so I saw them work with both. This was the second day they were working to identify the subject and predicate of a sentence. The class is specifically designed for children with language-based learning difficulties, but when it was clear that several of the students didn?t understand what a predicate was, or even what an ?action? was (because the teacher described the predicate as everything starting from the ?action? to the end of the sentence), the teacher (nor the paras) never stopped to try to explain it in a different way. They never explained what an action was, even though several of the kids couldn?t pick it out; if the children couldn?t find the ?action? (verb), they wouldn?t be able to identify the predicate. So those children who didn?t understand never were given any chance to get the concept.
As far as maipulatives being distracting for some children, I understand that. But there were surely children in that classroom who did not have ADHD (again, this class is specifically for children with language-based needs), who could have benefited from a tangible representation of what they were trying to do. My son certainly would have. I don?t think this has to be an ?all or nothing? situation, and I?m not sure why it wasn?t available for any of the students.
The kicker is, this was all while I, and two child study team members, were there observing. If this is how they are when someone's watching, I can't imagine how bad it is when they are alone, especially at the end of the day when everyone's tired and cranky.
You have a point, of course she could be a way better teacher when she doing feel as if she being watched. DS's intermediate resource teacher was like this, so was his high school band teacher (though he eventually got used to me and allowed me in his classroom/closet during school hours- an honor no other parent enjoyed, btw). What I saw in both of these people was a honed in focus on students and a sincere wish that they wouldn't be interupted by parents or adminstrators. Kids liked them, and they held to high standards and delivered with a style that bordered on insult comic- but they got results.
I'm no expert in observing classrooms. When DS was your son's age, I sent his psychologist to observe. He was able to parse this better than I could be at the time.
Again, the teacher invited us and is used to being observed. It?s part of the district?s standard operating procedure and happens on a near-daily basis, so if she has difficulty working up to her potential while being observed, then that?s a problem in its own right.
I?m certainly not an expert, either, but I don?t have the benefit of having anyone experienced enough who also knows my son?s potential and difficulties to be able to do this for me, so I have to do it myself. That being said, the child study team manager from my son?s current school agreed with many of my observations (not specifically about the teacher?s comments, but about how the class was taught), and voiced many of my same concerns (before I did), and also agrees that the program is not suitable for my son. The child study team manager of that school was also shocked to hear that manipulatives and multi-sensory methods were not being used.
Clearly, my son will never attend that class. But this is really bothering me, and I'm wondering if I should make a point of telling them just how awful this class was. If I didn't have a vested interest, I'd probably say something just to feel like I did what I could, but I am fighting for changes in my older son's IEP implementation and, as soon as that's settled, about to fight the fact that they said my younger son's not eligible for services (the reason they gave simply isn't legal). I don't want to rock the boat any more than I have to, but those poor kids. Some of them clearly understand they are being picked on by their teacher, and none of them are getting any of the extra help they were promised. It just kills me....
You should keep you mouth shut. You don't have a horse in the race.
The other parents may appreciate her style as toughening kids up for the transition to middle school. You would have been appalled by DS's resource teacher, I know I was put off by her on 4th grade BTSN. But DS did really well in her care for 3 years. She made sure he got ESY delivered at hom each summer, she dithered more over his IEPs to make sure they'd get him what he needed and when he had his triennial transitioning to middle school her reports of the BASC and Vineland were nearly identical to mine. She really "got" him. The school psych and DS private psych both remarked on how unusual it was for a mother and a teacher to be reporting exactly the same strengths and weaknesses.
I don?t entirely get this train of thought. I don?t see what reporting what I saw on a factual basis would have any negative effect to those children if their parents are aware of the current dynamics and are okay with it. I just think it should be a choice, and right now, I?m not sure it is.
And not to be inflammatory, but the reasoning here seems similar to the reasoning for not calling cps when you suspect abuse but don?t have the facts. The whole point is to allow the authorities to investigate. If there?s nothing going on, then nothing bad will come of it; but if there is something sketchy going on, it would hopefully come to light.
I have a concern about your language. It's all about fight. In an ideal situation, parents and schools are a team.
To be honest, I do feel embattled with the district right now. They are not providing what my son?s IEP calls for. They created a legal document and then decided not to honor it, in hopes that I wouldn?t be astute or involved enough to discover it.
That being said, I absolutely love my son?s current teachers and really appreciate his child study team manager. All three of them are telling me to take this to the next level (to the county), so it?s not something that I?m just making up in my head. In fact, it was his teacher that brought her concerns, which matched mine, to me in the first place. We were content to see how things would go in his current placement for a while without asking for any changes, but she?s the one who told us that she?s afraid he?ll need at least a special education teacher to support him in the mainstream class. That?s what we asked for in the IEP meeting, specifically, and were denied.
How bad is your son's dyslexia? It's a concern because it doesn't just impact reading, but also writing which is the bigger deal breaking at the high school and college level. New Jersey has some excellent private LD/reading schools. Lewis of Princeton and Cambridge in Hopewell are both fabulous. DS went to Lewis for 2 1/2 years; it was super expensive but changed his life.
I don?t know of an objective scale to compare his dyslexia, but my understanding is he?s pretty bad. For him, it?s not just reading and writing, but also math. He has no concept of time, can?t count money, and doesn?t understand basic math facts. He can calculate addition and subtraction, but has no idea why it works or how math facts are built. In addition he has close to no working memory and a limited vocabulary since English is his second language, so he has a lot to overcome.
I am aware of several of the schools, but they are all at least an hour away from our home. My husband and I both work full time, and our offices are both an hour away from home, in opposite directions. We considered placing him in one of the language based learning disability schools, but I just don?t see how it could work if we also want to give him a balanced lifestyle, complete with sports, socialization, and downtime.
As for you second son, have the notified you in writing why they won't offer services? Has there been an IEE done?
Yes, I do have their denial in writing, as a result of our eligibility conference. I don?t know what an IEE is, but he was evaluated all throughout the summer and then denied. Their reasoning is that since he?s only been exposed to English for six months, and he hasn?t had formal schooling in the US, they can?t determine his need, because the tests they gave him were not normed for Spanish-speaking students. All the tests were given bilingually, which in my son?s case meant basically in Spanish (except for speech, because they wanted to see if he has the same issues in both languages, which he does).
They?ve approved him for speech, but are providing such a small amount, it?s less than he was getting in Peru, and they have denied eligibility for everything else. We understand holding off on the educational stuff for a little while, but we want them to start PT, which his report indicates he clearly needs. They said they can?t talk to us about PT, because he isn?t eligible for special services, and that just doesn?t sit right with me?especially because lack of English language and no formal US schooling is not a legal reason to deny him.
You should absolutely report them. Imagine how they treat those kids when no one is observing. If your child was in a class like that, you would want someone to be notified and the problem to be taken care of.
I am horrified at the way some of these "teachers" behave toward children with special needs. There must be a consequence for these vicious and rotten people. When adults who observe the behavior don't do something, these people will continue to get away with it.