Lack of Discipline...

RnMom2Be

It seems to me like kids are completely out of control these days, and I wonder if the whole "positive discipline" or lack of discipline is to blame? Since when are kids the boss? We have a very spirited 3 YO son who needs definite consequences for negative actions....including time-outs, loss of privilages and the occassional swat on the butt. I allow DS to see that I am angry. DS is for the most part well-behaved due in part to consistant discipline. I have friends that constantly try to "reason" with their toddlers and preschoolers. Result?....kids that are nuts! In my house if you do the crime, you do the time and then we talk about it. Kids needs to have a little fear of adults.....this includes teachers...who are no longer able to discipline kids in their classrooms.....but that is a whole different can of worms!

buckeyebrat

Eh, everyone has their own opinion, but the way I do things in this house may not work for others. My older DS, who is now almost 13 is very well behaved and respects all elders. I am very proud of him and my parenting ("I", b/c basically I raised him alone). I never wanted to spank him, and tried other methods beforehand, BUT if he needed a swat, he got one. With DS 2, him being only 18 months, I will not spank, but as he gets older, and knowingly misbehaves, he will be punished. If that calls for a spanking on his little rear end, then that's what will happen.

EastCoastBride

fredalina:

Positive discipline =/= no discipline.

I agree.

Every child is different.  Yes, there are a ton of parents out there who don't discipline their kids at all.  But it's not a positive discipline issue.

My son is pretty easy going and I'm actually pretty amazed at how well he responds to reason.  I don't swat him, we don't do timeouts.  But he does deal w/ consequences - having toys taken away, getting no treat, etc.  I do raise my voice at times. 

All in all, I feel it' smore positive discipline than anything else, and he's a very well behaved boy.

momofmanyinthemitten

You ought to check out the parenting books on this list. They all support positive discipline, showing examples of how to use it and how it has worked. I see the positive effects of it in my house daily.

MrsCodeMonkey

I agree with you regarding lack of discipline, but I don't think spanking is the solution. Consequences along with modeling proper behavior and enforcing boundaries would go a long way. I'm going to focus on teaching DD how to problem solve and be respectful. We'll see what happens. Every kid is different so it's tough to narrow down what works or not until you try it. 

I did grow up in a household with corporal punishment. It was not this country. Yes, I excelled in school and "behaved," but I have some anxiety issues due to it. I don't want my DD to deal with it too. I used to shake when someone raised their voice...umm...not cool. That's probably oversharing. Anyhow, I worked through this and I've overcome most of these issues.  

mollybloom

 

I grew up in a house where the rod was never spared. We were all hit for every transgression we made. I was not traumatized by it, I am not afraid of my dad, we have a great relationship. And, when I was hit for something, I learned not to do it again.

That being said, we will not be spanking DD. A little swat on the hand if it is a matter of personal safety, but nothing more. There are ways to discipline that don't involve spanking.

I agree with the OP that many parents do not want to give their children any consequences for bad behavior and the kids learn that they can do whatever they want and nothing will happen. I saw the result of this all the time when I taught.

kcisthebombdotcom

We utilize positive discipline in our household and my kids are not the boss and not out of control. On the contrary, I have had total strangers come up to me on numerous occasions and compliment me on how well behaved my 2.5 year old is. He is polite and listens well. He even does things (like pick up after himself) without me having to tell him what to do. It isn't like my son was always a perfect angel either--he has sensory processing disorder so by nature he is hyperactive and spirited. Positive discipline has truly been a godsend.

Positive discipline does not promote kids being the boss and it does promote consequences for poor behavior. It just does not promote things like time outs or spanking, which research suggests are not good long-term fixes for behavior.

I would really suggest you read some research so you know what you're talking about. I'd even bet you'd find some way to keep your spirited child to listen to you better so you'd need to use timeouts/spankings less. If you're teaching your child the right way, you don't have to have them fear you to get your child to behave the way you want them to behave.

Manateearmz

::clutches pearls::

Spanking? No, she will never be spanked or "swatted".  

afc1189

Discipline= teaching. Yes I agree with the fact there is most certainly a lack of discipline and limits set for many children. I also do not think that children need to fear adults, respect- absolutely. But I find a lack of discipline in your post as well- you're teaching your child that it's okay to hit others for behavior you don't like.

 There is such a fear about our society and future generations turning into menaces due to a lack of punishment/spanking.. but we can very well argue on the other half of that given the research that surrounds spanking.

Here's a link to some of Murray Straus' work. https://nospank.net/straus-a.htm  

delg23

MrsCodeMonkey:

I agree with you regarding lack of discipline, but I don't think spanking is the solution. Consequences along with modeling proper behavior and enforcing boundaries would go a long way. I'm going to focus on teaching DD how to problem solve and be respectful. We'll see what happens. Every kid is different so it's tough to narrow down what works or not until you try it. 

I did grow up in a household with corporal punishment. It was not this country. Yes, I excelled in school and "behaved," but I have some anxiety issues due to it. I don't want my DD to deal with it too. I used to shake when someone raised their voice...umm...not cool. That's probably oversharing. Anyhow, I worked through this and I've overcome most of these issues.  

I agree w/ this. I do think some of the parenting methods of today are a bit ineffective, but I don't think spanking is necessary. Does positive discipline allow for time outs? Time out works great for us. I also use positive reinforcement w/ words not gifts. I don't think it is damaging to tell your kid they are being bad. I don't know if that falls under "positive discipline" but I have definitely heard some compassionate parenting ideals I find absurd. I should really read one of those books simply to figure out why I don't like them...I just know they probably won't appeal to me. I read happiest toddler on the block and found it useless. I love books w/ a disclaimer that if it isn't working it is because you are just doing it wrong.  

I am for balance. and each kid is different.

SGC29

Not your kids not your problem. We take a more "soft" approach in our disciplining and it has worked for us. I don't really care if someone thinks it is ineffective. It is our choice and if if is working for us, that is all that matters.

Wufroggy79

You should check out the book Lost at School, written by Dr. Ross Greene.  It is all about how traditional old school discipline methods are failing our most ill behaved kids at school.  Interesting read.

klondikebar

It's not the different approaches to discipline that create problems, it's the parents who do nothing about the bad behavior.

Bennett714

kielpinskim:

You ought to check out the parenting books on this list. They all support positive discipline, showing examples of how to use it and how it has worked. I see the positive effects of it in my house daily.

Good list! Thanks for the link. There are a few books included that I hadn't read before.  

delg23

KC_13:

We utilize positive discipline in our household and my kids are not the boss and not out of control. On the contrary, I have had total strangers come up to me on numerous occasions and compliment me on how well behaved my 2.5 year old is. He is polite and listens well. He even does things (like pick up after himself) without me having to tell him what to do. It isn't like my son was always a perfect angel either--he has sensory processing disorder so by nature he is hyperactive and spirited. Positive discipline has truly been a godsend.

Positive discipline does not promote kids being the boss and it does promote consequences for poor behavior. It just does not promote things like time outs or spanking, which research suggests are not good long-term fixes for behavior.

I would really suggest you read some research so you know what you're talking about. I'd even bet you'd find some way to keep your spirited child to listen to you better so you'd need to use timeouts/spankings less. If you're teaching your child the right way, you don't have to have them fear you to get your child to behave the way you want them to behave.

So if you don't do time out...what do you do? Give me a brief synopsis.  

2lovelyboys

I 100% completely agree with you!  People say kids shouldn't be afraid of their parents, teachers, etc.  I think to some degree, they certainly should be.  I hate that people say kids need explanations.....sometimes yes, but sometimes it's BECAUSE I SAID SO and that's it!!

Manateearmz

KlondikeBar:

It's not the different approaches to discipline that create problems, it's the parents who do nothing about the bad behavior.

Ohhhh I knew I liked you.

mesmom2011

KlondikeBar:

It's not the different approaches to discipline that create problems, it's the parents who do nothing about the bad behavior.

I agree!  Allowing your child to do whatever they like at all times and giving them everything they want is the easy way out and does not teach them how to behave.  It takes far more effort to teach your child what they should do and how to respectfully interact with others.  Some people choose to do that by using time out, others choose positive discipline.  I'm not sure exactly what will be done in our home, but I certainly see the benefits of positive parenting techniques and I think it is unfair to say that parents who use positive parenting will have children who are out of control.     

judahsmommy1

I don't know that my son has ever seen me "angry." I honestly don't know that I've ever been truly "angry" with my son so I guess that makes sense. I use time outs on occasion and immediate loss of privileges. (He just turned two and can't really understand the "no tv for a week young man!" type of consequence.) Those aren't my "go to" discipline options though. My son is and always has been extremely independent. He held his head up the day he was born and it was a definite foreshadowing of his personality! Is my son "spirited"... I think yes, and I think of it as a very positive thing. Since "spirited" is so often a negative term for children I tend to think of my son as energetic, curious, exuberant, and independent.

You may think that I try to "reason" with my son. And that makes me laugh. I absolutely explain things to him. We were at a car dealership the other day and he was climbing on something tall. After I got him down I had him knock on the floor to see how hard it was and we talked about how it would hurt if he felt. He decided to try knocking his head against the ground.  His job right now is to learn and my job is to "discipline" or teach him. He IS learning. And he's learning a lot more than just to do what mommy says. (Although that's important to.) He's learning that big cars can't see him and they might hurt him. He's learning that stoves are hot and cause ouchies. He's learning (his words) "Bike! Helmet! head? ouchies.... ouchies sad!" 95% of the time that I give my child an instruction I stop to explain why to him. The result is a child who is not only obedient, but understands what I'm asking him to do. My child isn't afraid of me, (although he is afraid of a time out.) He trusts me. And that makes the discipline that I do more effective.

Also, why are you so angry? He's doing things that are developmentally expected. Anger isn't necessary for effective discipline and can actually hinder what you're trying to do. If I'm scared or sad or frustrated my son sees that and I tell him. It helps him to understand his emotions better. Anger is often a front for a completely different emotion. It might help to try to figure out what you're actually feeling and communicate that to your children instead. When my son realized that I was scared when he tried to touch the stove that made a MUCH bigger impression on him than it would have if I was just angry. It helped him understand that he was in danger. Anger is about control... other emotions are about very different things that are much more educational. Just something to think about. 

kcisthebombdotcom

delg23:

KC_13:

We utilize positive discipline in our household and my kids are not the boss and not out of control. On the contrary, I have had total strangers come up to me on numerous occasions and compliment me on how well behaved my 2.5 year old is. He is polite and listens well. He even does things (like pick up after himself) without me having to tell him what to do. It isn't like my son was always a perfect angel either--he has sensory processing disorder so by nature he is hyperactive and spirited. Positive discipline has truly been a godsend.

Positive discipline does not promote kids being the boss and it does promote consequences for poor behavior. It just does not promote things like time outs or spanking, which research suggests are not good long-term fixes for behavior.

I would really suggest you read some research so you know what you're talking about. I'd even bet you'd find some way to keep your spirited child to listen to you better so you'd need to use timeouts/spankings less. If you're teaching your child the right way, you don't have to have them fear you to get your child to behave the way you want them to behave.

So if you don't do time out...what do you do? Give me a brief synopsis.  

We use natural or logical consequences in most cases. You throw your toys or can't play nicely with them--the toy goes away. You don't want to eat dinner--you go to bed hungry or you don't get strawberries for dessert while your sibling who ate dinner does. You want to throw food all over the place--you're going to help clean it up.

Violent behavior is the exception to this rule since if he's hitting towards his younger sister that's significantly smaller, he can do harm. In that case, we will remove him from the situation to give him a chance to cool off and regain control of his emotions, but it's not like we sit him in the corner for precisely 2 minutes or anything.

kcisthebombdotcom

KlondikeBar:

It's not the different approaches to discipline that create problems, it's the parents who do nothing about the bad behavior.

I absolutely agree.

I notice parents do lots of empty threats as well. I work at a restaurant on the weekends, and I'll notice parents threaten their kids with no dessert as a consequence. Well the kid keeps misbehaving, and when dessert comes the child is chowing down because his parents don't want him to whine and embarass them.

[Deleted User]

Lol

delg23

KC_13:

delg23:

KC_13:

We utilize positive discipline in our household and my kids are not the boss and not out of control. On the contrary, I have had total strangers come up to me on numerous occasions and compliment me on how well behaved my 2.5 year old is. He is polite and listens well. He even does things (like pick up after himself) without me having to tell him what to do. It isn't like my son was always a perfect angel either--he has sensory processing disorder so by nature he is hyperactive and spirited. Positive discipline has truly been a godsend.

Positive discipline does not promote kids being the boss and it does promote consequences for poor behavior. It just does not promote things like time outs or spanking, which research suggests are not good long-term fixes for behavior.

I would really suggest you read some research so you know what you're talking about. I'd even bet you'd find some way to keep your spirited child to listen to you better so you'd need to use timeouts/spankings less. If you're teaching your child the right way, you don't have to have them fear you to get your child to behave the way you want them to behave.

So if you don't do time out...what do you do? Give me a brief synopsis.  

We use natural or logical consequences in most cases. You throw your toys or can't play nicely with them--the toy goes away. You don't want to eat dinner--you go to bed hungry or you don't get strawberries for dessert while your sibling who ate dinner does. You want to throw food all over the place--you're going to help clean it up.

Violent behavior is the exception to this rule since if he's hitting towards his younger sister that's significantly smaller, he can do harm. In that case, we will remove him from the situation to give him a chance to cool off and regain control of his emotions, but it's not like we sit him in the corner for precisely 2 minutes or anything.

Oh. What I do isn't much different. I only started time out due to hitting. I don't time it. I just wait until he is chill and remove him. It worked. He doesn't hit any more. The whole "that isn't nice" or "that hurts, your brother is sad" didn't work.  Thanks for your response.  

LuckyDad

RnMom2Be:

It seems to me like kids are completely out of control these days, and I wonder if the whole "positive discipline" or lack of discipline is to blame? Since when are kids the boss? We have a very spirited 3 YO son who needs definite consequences for negative actions....including time-outs, loss of privilages and the occassional swat on the butt. I allow DS to see that I am angry. DS is for the most part well-behaved due in part to consistant discipline. I have friends that constantly try to "reason" with their toddlers and preschoolers. Result?....kids that are nuts! In my house if you do the crime, you do the time and then we talk about it. Kids needs to have a little fear of adults.....this includes teachers...who are no longer able to discipline kids in their classrooms.....but that is a whole different can of worms!

I understand your frustration, but think the cause is a lot different than you think. Most of the kids that are nuts probably don't so much have positive discipline as no and absentee discipline. Parents who are too tired from working two jobs or fighting with each other or frankly just don't give two poos about their kid. Our neighbors have a 6 or 7 year old and clearly have given up trying to control her behavior. Managing a child and really teaching them is a full time job in itself, and I know it's far easier to pop open a beer/pour a glass of wine and plop in front of the television after work and let the child run wild.

I'm not up on the latest theories, but my understanding is you are still supposed to use time outs and take away privileges when reasoning doesn't work?

Sherbet Lemon

KlondikeBar:

It's not the different approaches to discipline that create problems, it's the parents who do nothing about the bad behavior.

This, X1000. 

And, (anecdotal evidence time), the kids I teach whose parents use logical consequences are almost always the better behaved kids in the class.