How does your stance on the death penalty compare to your stance on abortion?

numeria11

So jumping off of Kitiara's post on gay rights vs. pro-choice I wanted to ask you guys a question I have gotten before about my stance on the death penalty (anti) and my choice in the abortion debate (pro-choice). 

 If you are anti- choice but pro-death penalty how do you reconcile the two views?  How are you ok with killing one person but not another?

Or similarly if you are pro-choice and anti-death penalty how do you reconcile the two views?  Again how are you ok with killing one person but not another?

Or if you're some other combo how have you gotten there?

 The second question in each of those scenariios is one I have often heard so I just wanted to see what other people say.

robinsokj

I an pro choice and don't consider a fetus to have personhood

catycate

I am pro choice and anti death penalty because I think that the death penalty is an expensive, archaic punishment that hasn't been proven to deter crime. For me personally, abortion HAS been proven to deter a child before I was ready to have one (I was ten times more careful for the rest of my single days after I went through my choice.). The death penalty is also doled out unfairly, and often to people who are incompetent to even stand trial.

PolishWonder

robinsokj:

I an pro choice and don't consider a fetus to have personhood

100% what Robin said. I'm pro-choice and anti-death penalty.

mollybloom

I am pro-choice. Fiercely pro-choice.

My view on the death penbalty is muddled and colored from personal experience. My high school best friend participated in the murder of her sister. It was a strange murder that she did with her mother and Santeria was involved and a botched exorcism (shiz nobody knew she was into). Prior to that in 1998, I was pro-death penalty. Knowing a murderer, I wanted her punished, but not dead.

 So I guess I am now anti-death penalty, but if someone harmed my child...I would want to kill them. I don't know, maybe it is not a black and white thinng for me.

mollybloom

car seat:

mollybloom:

I am pro-choice. Fiercely pro-choice.

My view on the death penbalty is muddled and colored from personal experience. My high school best friend participated in the murder of her sister. It was a strange murder that she did with her mother and Santeria was involved and a botched exorcism (shiz nobody knew she was into). Prior to that in 1998, I was pro-death penalty. Knowing a murderer, I wanted her punished, but not dead.

 So I guess I am now anti-death penalty, but if someone harmed my child...I would want to kill them. I don't know, maybe it is not a black and white thinng for me.

Oh my God.  How old were all of you when this happened?  That's really sad. 

 

It happened in January of 1998, I turned 20 two months earlier. Yeah, it sucked. She took a plea bargain for manslaughter two. She has since gotten out, got married, got divorced, got engaged, got pregnant. It makes my stomach turn that she is pregnant. We haven,t spoken since she got out of prison. 

Venus04d

Pro choice and anti death penalty. I do not believe that a fetus is a "person" yet and I believe a woman called upon to mother should have the choice to refrain. I am anti death penalty, because I do not believe it deters crime, it's more expensive than time spent in jail, our judicial system sometimes makes mistakes and death is irreversible, and it's an entirely outdated practice.

 

mollybloom

car seat:

mollybloom:

It happened in January of 1998, I turned 20 two months earlier. Yeah, it sucked. She took a plea bargain for manslaughter two. She has since gotten out, got married, got divorced, got engaged, got pregnant. It makes my stomach turn that she is pregnant. We haven,t spoken since she got out of prison. 

I'm really sorry.  Was she still your best friend at the time?  I can't even imagine. 

I don't think I'd be able to speak to her again, either.  I hope she's had a lot of help since thishappened.  Is her mom still in prison?

She was still my best friend at the time. It kind of wrecked my head for a while. Trust became a big thing for me.

I know that she did intensive therapy in prison but I have no idea if she has kept it up since getting released. Her mother was found to be incompetent and has been in an institution since it happened.  

klondikebar

I don't really like the idea of the death penalty, but if a person confessed to killing someone I loved, I'd volunteer to hit the button, so there's that.

robinsokj

My cousin and his wife were brutally murdered when I was in high school. 

https://www.indystar.com/article/99999999/NEWS06/101215007/StarFiles-Mathias-ax-murders-1996.

 

After that I was very pro death penalty.  Since then I've changed my mind b/c there is far too much wrong with the system. 

mollybloom

robinsokj:

My cousin and his wife were brutally murdered when I was in high school. 

https://www.indystar.com/article/99999999/NEWS06/101215007/StarFiles-Mathias-ax-murders-1996.

 

After that I was very pro death penalty.  Since then I've changed my mind b/c there is far too much wrong with the system. 

That is horrible. I am so sorry. 

delg23

robinsokj:

I an pro choice and don't consider a fetus to have personhood

this. Though I go back and forth on the death penalty. I think at the very least it should be REALLY rare. 

esthergreenwood14

In a perfect world, I would be anti choice and pro death penalty.  Of course in a perfect world there would never be an unwanted/medically unsafe pregnancy and there would be no crime. Our world is far from perfect and full of human beings who make mistakes.  It is also full of bad things that happen without reason or explanation. That said, I am 100% pro choice and 100% anti death penalty.  

esthergreenwood14

Also @ Molly and Robin, I am so sorry for your personal experiences with this.  I can not even imagine. 

wife1014

I never answer these questions and always stay out of these conversations but here goes.

I am pro-choice.  I don't have any instance where I'm not pro-choice.  I don't care what anyone does with their body, their fetus.  I would never feel the desire to take that right away from anyone at anytime.

I am anti death penalty.  I think if a person has committed a crime which would result in the death penalty, they should live all their days in a solitary prison cell.  I think killing them off makes it easier for them and only hurts their families. 

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

scoutkate

I am pro-choice.  I don't really have a clear stance on the death penalty. 

michaels_girl

SookieFrackhouse68:

I am pro-choice.

I am not sure where I stand on the death penalty. I tend to lean towards "no" because our system is so flawed, biased, racist, etc. But in those clear-cut cases where the crime was particularly brutal, I can't bring myself to care about this person's life.

I know that sounds awful, but just being honest.

Same.  But you said it a lot nicer than I was going to.  The system we have is too flawed for the death penalty, but some people do need killin'.  The Petit home invasion in Conneticut comes to mind as folks for whom I'd flip the switch.

ATMmom324

I am anti death penalty because I believe a life sitting in prison rotting is worse then a quick painless death.  Also the cases where the person was found innocent scare me.  The whole anti choice thing is a bit more gray for me.  I believe every woman has the choice but I personally couldn't ever have an abortion.  

catsinawindow

I'm pro-death penalty and pro-choice.  So pretty much I'm for killing all around, lol.  Joking, joking, no one stab me, please.

grr_aargh

I am a strident believer in bodily autonomy in this case.  

This makes me pro-choice - the natural rights of the mother supersede those of the fetus until viability.  This also makes me anti-death penalty - while we can imprison criminals, we do not readily agree to other incursions on murderer's bodily autonomy. We don't implant them with chips or sell their kidneys, both of which would be useful - but wrong (you hear that, China?).  As such, to violate their bodily autonomy in the greatest way - by removing their life - is a violation of the same principal that makes me pro-choice.  Convenient, eh?

 In the meantime, there are a variety of OTHER things that come along with being anti-choice and pro-death-penalty that I also do not agree with.  But I reconcile them with the above belief.  

catsinawindow

Venus04d:

Pro choice and anti death penalty. I do not believe that a fetus is a "person" yet and I believe a woman called upon to mother should have the choice to refrain. I am anti death penalty, because I do not believe it deters crime, it's more expensive than time spent in jail, our judicial system sometimes makes mistakes and death is irreversible, and it's an entirely outdated practice.

 

I've seen a few people say this here, but have never heard this before.  Do you have a linky/reference that shows this?  Keeping prisoners in jail is so darned expensive, I can't imagine how the death penalty could possibly be more expensive then all those combined years.

grr_aargh

For the record, I am also anti-death penalty not because of what it does to the prisoner, but what it feeds in us.  This is not about our baser nature. 

 

 

Count Choculitis

catycate:

I am pro choice and anti death penalty because I think that the death penalty is an expensive, archaic punishment that hasn't been proven to deter crime. For me personally, abortion HAS been proven to deter a child before I was ready to have one (I was ten times more careful for the rest of my single days after I went through my choice.). The death penalty is also doled out unfairly, and often to people who are incompetent to even stand trial.

Dear Catycate:

The death penalty isn't for deterring crime - it's for good old fashioned vengeance, which is why I like it so much. 

I love this not-so-parallel logic you're using here: the death penalty hasn't been shown to deter crime, but abortion has been shown to deter a child from being born to a woman who doesn't totally want it.  Well that makes perfect sense!  

After all, the humanity of a fetus is determined by how much its wanted, not by it's physical or human characteristics and most importantly -- its soul.  "Pro-choice" is a mindless euphemism for "selfish."  Its not just "your body," and "your choice."  Once a child is conceived he becomes by nature and by necessity his own body, with his own set of rights.  

I'd be surprised if you've put more than a fleeting amount of thought into any issue in your life.    

Kitiara5512

I see why the death penalty is preferred in many cases. But in the words of Gandalf the Grey "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

I am pro-choice. I believe the life of the mother is as sacred as, if not more than, that of the unborn child. To always support the life of the unborn child, the mother may as well not exist as anything other than an incubator.

If I am not coherent, I have not yet had coffee or soda today.

 

 

OP: Thank you, I just wanted to start off some talking today. Logic had nothing to do with my post.

DeerHunter79

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

grr_aargh

lisagde:

Venus04d:

Pro choice and anti death penalty. I do not believe that a fetus is a "person" yet and I believe a woman called upon to mother should have the choice to refrain. I am anti death penalty, because I do not believe it deters crime, it's more expensive than time spent in jail, our judicial system sometimes makes mistakes and death is irreversible, and it's an entirely outdated practice.

 

I've seen a few people say this here, but have never heard this before.  Do you have a linky/reference that shows this?  Keeping prisoners in jail is so darned expensive, I can't imagine how the death penalty could possibly be more expensive then all those combined years.

Off the cuff: https://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

The cost of the death penalty includes the cost of appeals and other legal moves.  The cost of keeping a prisoner alive for life is often significantly lower. 

RedWingsFan

Venus04d:

Pro choice and anti death penalty. I do not believe that a fetus is a "person" yet and I believe a woman called upon to mother should have the choice to refrain. I am anti death penalty, because I do not believe it deters crime, it's more expensive than time spent in jail, our judicial system sometimes makes mistakes and death is irreversible, and it's an entirely outdated practice.

 

This.  I am also pro-choice because while I thought of my two early losses as babies, I know that not everyone feels that way and every woman should be able to make the choice for herself whether or not she wants to be a parent or continue on with a pregnancy, no matter the circumstances.

grr_aargh

DeerHunter79:

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

But here's where our pesky Constitution gets in the way. . .

 

This is what I mean about the death penalty encouraging our baser selves.   

 

penguingrrl

I am anti death penalty because I don't think it's a state's right to take someone's life. I'm pro choice because I feel the mother's body trumps the fetus's rights.

anneimal98

Pro-choice, anti-death penalty. Its not my place to make life or death decisions for other people.

RedWingsFan

Count Choculitis:

catycate:

I am pro choice and anti death penalty because I think that the death penalty is an expensive, archaic punishment that hasn't been proven to deter crime. For me personally, abortion HAS been proven to deter a child before I was ready to have one (I was ten times more careful for the rest of my single days after I went through my choice.). The death penalty is also doled out unfairly, and often to people who are incompetent to even stand trial.

Dear Catycate:

The death penalty isn't for deterring crime - it's for good old fashioned vengeance, which is why I like it so much. 

I love this not-so-parallel logic you're using here: the death penalty hasn't been shown to deter crime, but abortion has been shown to deter a child from being born to a woman who doesn't totally want it.  Well that makes perfect sense!  

After all, the humanity of a fetus is determined by how much its wanted, not by it's physical or human characteristics and most importantly -- its soul.  "Pro-choice" is a mindless euphemism for "selfish."  Its not just "your body," and "your choice."  Once a child is conceived he becomes by nature and by necessity his own body, with his own set of rights.  

I'd be surprised if you've put more than a fleeting amount of thought into any issue in your life.    

Wow.  Way to beat down a woman who had to make that difficult choice.  People who are pro-choice are not skipping down the street yelling "Abortions for everyone!!!  Screw that fetus!" 

And NO - scientifically, once a "child" is conceived, it is a ball of cells that CAN NOT survive outside of it's mother's womb until 24ish weeks, so it is NOT a person.  Your own fetus may feel like a baby to you (see my other post), but not everyone feels that way.

Also, I think you suck.

DeerHunter79

grr_aargh:

DeerHunter79:

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

But here's where our pesky Constitution gets in the way. . .

 

This is what I mean about the death penalty encouraging our baser selves.   

 

Darn Constitution!!  I will never understand why "the people" think that a killer for example deserves rights and if put to death they deserve it in a humane way?  What about the victim?  Were they treated in a humane way when you commited the crime??  I do agree that the system has flaws and that at times innocent people are convicted of crimes and in those cases I don't agree with the death penalty but like I said if you are without a doubt guilty I don't give a *** about your life

MJHershey

All I will say is that I get rage-y when "pro-lifers" bomb and kill clinics.

 

DeerHunter79

IrishCoffee7:

DeerHunter79:

grr_aargh:

DeerHunter79:

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

But here's where our pesky Constitution gets in the way. . .

 

This is what I mean about the death penalty encouraging our baser selves.   

 

Darn Constitution!!  I will never understand why "the people" think that a killer for example deserves rights and if put to death they deserve it in a humane way?  What about the victim?  Were they treated in a humane way when you commited the crime??  I do agree that the system has flaws and that at times innocent people are convicted of crimes and in those cases I don't agree with the death penalty but like I said if you are without a doubt guilty I don't give a *** about your life

So are you God?  Can you tell when the system has worked and when it hasn't?  Do you see what you just said?  "If the system failed them I'm anti death penalty"  No?

OK then no death penalty.

WE DON'T KNOW when it has failed.  Sometimes ever, or at least for decades.

 

Here is what I mean....and what my stance is on this subject

A person that has admitted to a crime that is violent and/or as taken a life (especially if done towards a child) doesnt deserve to live in my eyes.  I see that people are saying that it is more expensive to put a person to death than it is to have them serve a life sentence true?  I dont know??  I do know that a lot of prisons have over crowding and quite a few people get shorter sentences when I think that they should have to serve the entire thing.  Yes, I agree that some crimes that people go to prison for are not so serious in some eyes but a crime is a crime and overcrowding is an issue as well.  In general I think that the entire prison system is a joke and people in prison are given too many "things to do" and can see why some dont think its really that big of a deal to go.  I mean you have a roof over your head, you are fed and given things to do that some criminals dont have access to in the real world.  I am saying that I think that prison needs to start being more punishment in some ways and I feel like much of it is a joke.  So I think that the death penalty is a way to get rid of scum (I am horrible I know) and help with some of the overcrowding we have as well. 

grr_aargh

DeerHunter79:

grr_aargh:

DeerHunter79:

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

But here's where our pesky Constitution gets in the way. . .

 

This is what I mean about the death penalty encouraging our baser selves.   

 

Darn Constitution!!  I will never understand why "the people" think that a killer for example deserves rights and if put to death they deserve it in a humane way?  What about the victim?  Were they treated in a humane way when you commited the crime??  I do agree that the system has flaws and that at times innocent people are convicted of crimes and in those cases I don't agree with the death penalty but like I said if you are without a doubt guilty I don't give a *** about your life

Again, as I said, the death penalty certainly appeals to our baser selves.  I would like to be more than my baser self.

Do I occasionally feel all "EFF them let them fry!!".  Absolutely.  My baser self would like to see their flesh ripped off by bears in a public square.  However, I'm not a fan of my baser self most days - that's the same part of me that says hit people you disagree with, take the crap you want regardless of the consequences, and beat animals that make you mad.  The baser self is so, so, so much less than what we are meant to be.

Ever heard that classic line "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"?  

DragonflyBelle

I am pro-life because of my history of infertility and my 3rd trimester loss. I am  anti death penalty because my uncle was brutally murdered....that one might seem backwards to some people, but I feel like he should have to live with his crime and rot in jail...lethal injection is too quick and painless for what he did to my uncle. I guess I hope he dies a slow and agonizing death one day.

Kitiara5512

lisagde:

Venus04d:

Pro choice and anti death penalty. I do not believe that a fetus is a "person" yet and I believe a woman called upon to mother should have the choice to refrain. I am anti death penalty, because I do not believe it deters crime, it's more expensive than time spent in jail, our judicial system sometimes makes mistakes and death is irreversible, and it's an entirely outdated practice.

 

I've seen a few people say this here, but have never heard this before.  Do you have a linky/reference that shows this?  Keeping prisoners in jail is so darned expensive, I can't imagine how the death penalty could possibly be more expensive then all those combined years.

I think its the cost of appeals and stuff like that. Either way, they wind up in prison for a long asss time. Sorry, no linky, as I have no research done to support that and am taking a guess.

IncogNeato

I'm pro-choice and consider a fetus a pre-person rather than a person, and I am anti-DP because it serves no purpose and is a horrible example to people. The DP is supposed to be a deterrent to crime, but it isn't. It isn't effective, it costs a ton of money, and serves no purpose other than vengeance, while many families of victims end up finding that it doesn't make them feel any better when the criminal is killed, anyway. So what's the point? We don't have a good reason for it at all.

I also think that the government using death as a punishment is a shady use of power. 

DeerHunter79

IrishCoffee7:

DeerHunter79:

IrishCoffee7:

DeerHunter79:

grr_aargh:

DeerHunter79:

100% Pro choice!  The death thing is something that I am not sure about.  I do think that if you are proven guilty of sex crimes towards children or really anything horrible towards children you deserve to die a horrible death.  I think that as far as the cost goes for putting someone to death it could be done much cheaper and if without a doubt you are guilty you don't deserve a humane death.  BUT I dont think it could be more of a punishment to serve life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole.  BUT I do think that they give people in prison too many rights I say no TV, no weights, NO FUN!  You want something to do??  Read a book in your cell

But here's where our pesky Constitution gets in the way. . .

 

This is what I mean about the death penalty encouraging our baser selves.   

 

Darn Constitution!!  I will never understand why "the people" think that a killer for example deserves rights and if put to death they deserve it in a humane way?  What about the victim?  Were they treated in a humane way when you commited the crime??  I do agree that the system has flaws and that at times innocent people are convicted of crimes and in those cases I don't agree with the death penalty but like I said if you are without a doubt guilty I don't give a *** about your life

So are you God?  Can you tell when the system has worked and when it hasn't?  Do you see what you just said?  "If the system failed them I'm anti death penalty"  No?

OK then no death penalty.

WE DON'T KNOW when it has failed.  Sometimes ever, or at least for decades.

 

Here is what I mean....and what my stance is on this subject

A person that has admitted to a crime that is violent and/or as taken a life (especially if done towards a child) doesnt deserve to live in my eyes.  I see that people are saying that it is more expensive to put a person to death than it is to have them serve a life sentence true?  I dont know??  I do know that a lot of prisons have over crowding and quite a few people get shorter sentences when I think that they should have to serve the entire thing.  Yes, I agree that some crimes that people go to prison for are not so serious in some eyes but a crime is a crime and overcrowding is an issue as well.  In general I think that the entire prison system is a joke and people in prison are given too many "things to do" and can see why some dont think its really that big of a deal to go.  I mean you have a roof over your head, you are fed and given things to do that some criminals dont have access to in the real world.  I am saying that I think that prison needs to start being more punishment in some ways and I feel like much of it is a joke.  So I think that the death penalty is a way to get rid of scum (I am horrible I know) and help with some of the overcrowding we have as well. 

Your entire statement is full of assumptions and misconceptions. 

We can just agree to disagree.  And for the PP that said if I have ever heard of the if everyone was eye for an eye the whole world would be blind yes, I have.  But I tell you think if everyone hurts (I am not talking about hurt feeling blah, blah blah) I am talking sexually or abuse like I would want them DEAD and tortured period.  I am can't hardly say that in that case I believe it but otherwise I dont.

RayRay007

I am pro-choice and anti-death penalty. I don't see a fetus as a person. And I don't see the death penalty doing any good for society. I think those that are prolife and pro dealth penalty reconcile it by saying the fetus is a poor innocent person and the bad bad man deserves to die.