Question about frosties

nuttycoconut

I received a call from my RE today that the 2 embryos they thought would make it to freeze did not meet the lab requirements. On day 3 (saturday) we had 10 "perfect" 8-cell embryos and another that was doing "well". The same thing happened after IVF #1, but we had about 14 "perfect" embryos.  After reading this board I realize that frozen embryos are not a guarantee but I have to say I'm quite upset that we don't have any once again. Are there any questions I should ask my RE about this? I am not very well versed on lab requirements for embryos so if any of you can shed some light on this I'd love to hear it. We are terrified we will have to go through this entire thing again (obviously a bit anxious after our losses) and are wondering if we want a lab with different standards. Thank you! 

OOPMedsProgram

Wow ten perfect 8 cell embryos on day three is amazing! How many did they retrieve? I have heard that criteria for freezing embryos at some clinic are strict. I would ask specifically what criteria does the clinic use to determine which embryos they will freeze? The reasons why yours didn't make it to freeze could be different than others reasons.

AngnShaun

OOPMedsProgram:

Wow ten perfect 8 cell embryos on day three is amazing! How many did they retrieve? I have heard that criteria for freezing embryos at some clinic are strict. I would ask specifically what criteria does the clinic use to determine which embryos they will freeze? The reasons why yours didn't make it to freeze could be different than others reasons.

 

thats a good point.  BUT at some point id be getting pissed off to have such good embies and nothing to freeze. 

hootie123

You can see my history in my siggy - I've never had anything to freeze and its broke my heart every single time.  Frosties are not a guarantee - and every clinic has different standards for what and why they freeze what they do.   GL - hopefully you won't need to worry about it.  

sekura

Ticker Warning!

 

My clinic requires that they make it to blastocyst by day 6; but that's all I know.

delino

I think I would ask why they won't freeze some on day 3 if they are doing well at that point.  Just because an embryo can't make it to a blast in the lab doesn't mean it won't thrive in your womb.

nuttycoconut

Thanks. I'll definitely ask what the requirements are. The RE said they didn't even know which ones to transfer since they were great so they decided the day of transfer (yesterday). So I had at least 4 blasts yesterday, possibly more. I guess they wait until day 6 to freeze but that seems uncommon after reading that some of you freeze on day 3. This is so frustrating. I wish I could just be hopeful and happy but that phone call brought me down. 

nuttycoconut

sekura:

Ticker Warning!

 

My clinic requires that they make it to blastocyst by day 6; but that's all I know.

 

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with such a strict clinic!  

BzeetyD

sekura:

Ticker Warning!

 

My clinic requires that they make it to blastocyst by day 6; but that's all I know.

This is true for us as well.

Edwina.McDunnough

delino:

I think I would ask why they won't freeze some on day 3 if they are doing well at that point.  Just because an embryo can't make it to a blast in the lab doesn't mean it won't thrive in your womb.

Many REs believe that embryos that won't make it to blast in vitro will not do so in the uterus, and that freezing embryos that are of poor quality and/or have poor chances of surviving the thaw is not only is a waste of resources but a waste of unnecessary FET cycles including FET cycles that may never make it to transfer. One could argue that freezing very early embryos is not a benevolent practice. Labs that have poorer quality standards than "in the ute" should probably be avoided from the onset. It's up to you whether having hope on cd3 is more important than having a reality check on cd5, but the bottom line is that looks don't equate with genetic integrity, especially regarding cleavage stage embryos.

My advice is to get the embryology/fert report and see how the embryos progress each day. It's very common for many or most to arrest between d3 and d5, so don't be alarmed, and strict freezing criteria only make the chances of cryo smaller. AF has good information on grading and the points they are using to assess the embryos, however your clinic may use a different scale.

Ask what their criteria of cryo is and if they vitrify. Some clinics will allow lower graded blasts to freeze if they are being vitrified since they are more likely to survive with this method. 

If you prefer to give every embryo every chance and are willing to pay the cryo fees and go through multiple FETs, some of which may be cancelled, then I would ask if freezing everything regardless of grading is an option for you.

GL and I hope you get some answers, but you are correct that having extra to freeze is the exception not the norm. 

maggie2324

Only about 30% of people have anything to freeze at my clinic. They freeze good quality blastocysts only unless the patient requests something different.

For us, we had 13 fertilize with 5 looking good on day 5. We transferred 2 and froze 3. Out of the remaining 8, only 1 other made it to blast by day 6 but it was too poor quality to freeze. They do vitrify.

I am surprised with your numbers that you didn't have any to freeze. I would talk to your RE about egg/sperm quality issues or any other reason for it. The numbers don't make sense as typically around 30% should be good quality. If you have more than over 9+ embryos then at least 3+ should make it to transfer/freeze statistically.

nuttycoconut

Thank you Maggie and edwina.