September 2012 Moms
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Update on the GA republican that compared us to farm animals

https://www.msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/31/at-11th-hour-georgia-passes-women-as-livestock-bill/

I'm livid. I really love my city, I love the people, but I hate this state and the government here.

A quick recap if you don't want to read the article:

After an emotional 14-hour workday that included fist-fights between lobbyists and a walk-out by women Democrats, the Georgia House passed a Senate-approved bill Thursday night that criminalizes abortion after 20 weeks.

The bill, which does not contain rape or incest exemptions, is expected to receive a signature from Republican Gov. Nathan Deal.

Commonly referred to as the ?fetal pain bill? by Georgian Republicans and as the ?women as livestock bill? by everyone else, HB 954 garnered national attention this month when state Rep. Terry England (R-Auburn) compared pregnant women carrying stillborn fetuses to the cows and pigs on his farm. According to Rep. England and his warped thought process, if farmers have to ?deliver calves, dead or alive,? then a woman carrying a dead fetus, or one not expected to survive, should have to carry it to term.

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Re: Update on the GA republican that compared us to farm animals

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    Holy sh!t. 
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    I cannot stand BS like this!!  Hypocrisy at its finest.

    Typically, I vote fiscally conservative, but that does not make me a Republican!

    Sorry, politicans (Republicans), you can't be both FOR limited government and believe government has any business making a laws about anyone's medical decisions.

    I'd agree with you on crazy Georgia politicians (having formerly lived in Forsyth county), but I live in Kansas now...its not any better :-( 

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    Oh. Wow. 
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    imageJennifer Ruth:

    I cannot stand BS like this!!  Hypocrisy at its finest.

    Typically, I vote fiscally conservative, but that does not make me a Republican!

    Sorry, politicans (Republicans), you can't be both FOR limited government and believe government has any business making a laws about anyone's medical decisions.

    I'd agree with you on crazy Georgia politicians (having formerly lived in Forsyth county), but I live in Kansas now...its not any better :-( 

    I'm from Forsyth Co! I graduated from Forsyth Central HS, lived out by pools mill off of 20. Small world  :)

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    Ridiculous!  I hope that gets overturned in court.
    imageimageimageimageimage 9/07 m/c baby boy @ 18wks, 4/09 m/c @ 4.5wks
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    This is effing insane.

    If your issue is abortions, fine - but leave pregnant women who suffer miscarriages, late term losses, and stillbirths out of it. A pregnant woman whose baby dies in utero is not the same as a f#%king farm animal nor is she the same from someone who willingly submits to a late-term abortion in an abortion clinic.

    Grrr.

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    imageAB&TB:
    Ridiculous!  I hope that gets overturned in court.

    This. There is no way that bill can stand..it's absolutely ridiculous.  

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    imagedmfan897:

    imageAB&TB:
    Ridiculous!  I hope that gets overturned in court.

    This. There is no way that bill can stand..it's absolutely ridiculous.  

    The governor already said he'll sign it. 

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    doesn't this directly go against roe v. wade?

    I'm not a politician by any means but that is outrageous!!

                           
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    imageauroraloo:
    imagescarlette+noir:
    imagedmfan897:

    imageAB&TB:
    Ridiculous!  I hope that gets overturned in court.

    This. There is no way that bill can stand..it's absolutely ridiculous.  

    The governor already said he'll sign it. 

    Even if the governor signs it, the court can overturn it if is unconstitutional by Georgia (which is unlikely) or if it goes to the supreme court.

    I'm hoping our female representatives will try to fight it at the court level. Considering they staged a walkout and actually shamed the men as they filed out, I'm pretty sure they won't let this one go. 

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    Ugh. It sickens me (though doesn't surprise me) to read this about my home state (born and raised in Middle Ga, then lived in Atlanta for a few years).

    The only small silver lining I've found is that according to several articles I read yesterday, Georgia's law clearly states 20 weeks AFTER conception, which actually makes you 22 weeks pregnant. That's at least 2 weeks better than some of the other states. 

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    imageauroraloo:
    imagescarlette+noir:
    imagedmfan897:

    imageAB&TB:
    Ridiculous!  I hope that gets overturned in court.

    This. There is no way that bill can stand..it's absolutely ridiculous.  

    The governor already said he'll sign it. 

    Even if the governor signs it, the court can overturn it if is unconstitutional by Georgia (which is unlikely) or if it goes to the supreme court.

    Bingo. Just appalling though..I'm sick of men making health decisions for women! 

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    crap.  okay.  so the whole comparing us to cows is REALLY stupid among other descriptive words I can't use on thebump... however... I agree 100% with no abortions after 20 wks (yes I am prolife and I do not agree with any abortion at any stage unless it is 100% certain the mother will die).  I do not think that a woman should carry a dead child in her womb, I had a miscarriage and had a d/c, obviously this sort of thinking is INSANE.  But, when it comes to anything else, I personally am against an aboriton being done even on a child who the doctors are sure will not survive - really, because most of the abortions that are done to terminate these children is not humane and not pain-free (unless the child is given pain medication obviously but I have never been able to find numbers of unborn children given pain meds when doing this sort of procedure). Usually late-term abortions are done by 'intact dilation and extraction', 'Instillation abortion' or 'dilation and evacuation'.  You can google those yourself.

    I could go on and on, but I had to say something, because I know this is a POV not many people will speak up for.

    I know I will get flamed, I know it - abortion is not a popular thing to discuss on thebump and even more unpopular is the pro-life stance on it.  I have known women who have had to make these sorts of decisions (and I could be the next one in the situation) and I never pointed a finger and I never will, nor will I judge, but this is my personal feeling on this issue.  And I want to be clear that my personal opinion is not twisted into some sort of attack on women.

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    imagescarlette+noir:
    imageJennifer Ruth:

    I cannot stand BS like this!!  Hypocrisy at its finest.

    Typically, I vote fiscally conservative, but that does not make me a Republican!

    Sorry, politicans (Republicans), you can't be both FOR limited government and believe government has any business making a laws about anyone's medical decisions.

    I'd agree with you on crazy Georgia politicians (having formerly lived in Forsyth county), but I live in Kansas now...its not any better :-( 

    I'm from Forsyth Co! I graduated from Forsyth Central HS, lived out by pools mill off of 20. Small world  :)

    We only lived there a few years when I was working in Alpharetta.  We lived just north of Central HS and just south of Sawnee Mountain.  I miss living there sometimes; I loved it. 

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    imageJennifer Ruth:
    imagescarlette+noir:
    imageJennifer Ruth:

    I cannot stand BS like this!!  Hypocrisy at its finest.

    Typically, I vote fiscally conservative, but that does not make me a Republican!

    Sorry, politicans (Republicans), you can't be both FOR limited government and believe government has any business making a laws about anyone's medical decisions.

    I'd agree with you on crazy Georgia politicians (having formerly lived in Forsyth county), but I live in Kansas now...its not any better :-( 

    I'm from Forsyth Co! I graduated from Forsyth Central HS, lived out by pools mill off of 20. Small world  :)

    We only lived there a few years when I was working in Alpharetta.  We lived just north of Central HS and just south of Sawnee Mountain.  I miss living there sometimes; I loved it. 

    Yeah that's not to far from my mom's house. She's about 2 miles from the west side of sawanee mountain. My husband and I actually work in Alpharetta too, so this really is a small world :)

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    Serious question...

    What the fluck does this mean?????

    The Georgia ?fetal pain? bill  also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. 

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    imageJennifer Ruth:

    Serious question...

    What the fluck does this mean?????

    The Georgia ?fetal pain? bill  also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. 

    Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.    If the abortion is performed so that the fetus emerges alive, then the child will suffer a slow and torturous death as it surely suffocates due to having no lung function.   If you terminate the pregnancy in the womb, it's usually instantaneous.   

    Also, the idiot needs to realize that a dead baby in your body is a parasite that your body will attack and you can become very effing sick if you carry it to term.   

    There are a lot of things that animals can do that we can't....eating feces is one of them.   Withstanding the elements for an extended period of time...  just because a cow can carry a effing dead calf to term doesn't mean human women can.  This sh!t pisses me off to no freaking end. 

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    @black.kat

    The difference is that pro-choice people aren't trying to make any decisions for you. You are welcome to have any opinion you want, but that doesn't mean there should be legislation forcing that opinion on others, whose circumstances you can't know.

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    Forcing a woman to carry a dead baby to term is absolutely terrible. *shudders*



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    imageMrsAB1316:
    imageJennifer Ruth:

    Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.    If the abortion is performed so that the fetus emerges alive, then the child will suffer a slow and torturous death as it surely suffocates due to having no lung function.   If you terminate the pregnancy in the womb, it's usually instantaneous.   

     

    "crazycakes prolifers" Ha!  Never heard that one before!  Creative...  a fetus, unless defined as dead, is a living child.  Children that are born at 25wk premature is a living child... why wouldn't one that is in the womb?  Just the difference of environment, NOT a difference in the child.  The majority of prolifers care very much for the woman, the child and her extended family and friends - I can say with 100% certainty, since I am one.  But that whole story about how prolife people don't care about women or the child after he/she is born is what pro-choice people, such as yourself, like to stick to, no matter how many times we prove you wrong.

    Look up how the different late-term abortions happen - they do not all happen instantaneously, nor are they without pain to the unborn child (unless they give the child some sort of pain medication before, which I haven't heard of them doing, if someone can tell me for fact and point me in the direction to learn about it, I would appreciate that).

    The problem with this arguement is that when a doctor tells a family their baby has issues that will cause them not to survive outside the womb, or will live shortly and in pain, people tend to think that terminating is a logical and loving decision.  The thing is, as stated above, the abortions are not humane and not without pain for the child, so it defeats the purpose to say this is the best decision for the baby.  Also, there is the question of whether the child is in pain within the womb or if that will only happen once he/she is born.  If the child is monitored and shown not to be in distress, then why take the life that he/she has to live in the womb.  Personally for me - I will repeat - personally for me, if I was in this situation, I would give my child life in my womb, give birth, have the child recieve pain medication needed so to not be in pain for however long he/she is to live.  For ME, that is a more humane, loving decision rather than burning his/her lungs with saline solution, shooting medication into his/her heart (esp if he/she is not in pain in the womb) to make it stop then carry the baby dead in my womb until I deliver - or worse (and this choice is the worst, but done in this country - hint "dr. tiller"), induce labor, have the "doctor" turn the baby breech, birth him/her all but the head, have the "doctor" pierce the bottom of the skull and drain the brain and crush the skull and finish the birth process.  Those are the choices of 'induced termination' at 20+ weeks.  Those are the choices that some say is the loving decision for unborn children who don't check off every box on the "healthy baby checklist".

    I love how people like to paint pro-lifers as people who don't care about women or children, when it couldn't be further from the truth.  It is a matter of education and being open-minded about the real choices and what those real choices look like stripped down to what those choices are like for the unborn child.

    Shall we keep going?

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    imageterri.m.reid@gmail.com:

    @black.kat

    The difference is that pro-choice people aren't trying to make any decisions for you. You are welcome to have any opinion you want, but that doesn't mean there should be legislation forcing that opinion on others, whose circumstances you can't know.

    I understand that.  However, the decision that is at stake here is the life of another human being.  We step in all of the time to save the lives of people (out of the womb of course) in this country and other countries and it is the right thing to do, to save lives of those being threatened... yet, when the lives are hidden away in the womb, it is "forcing that 'opinion' on others"?

    I have my opinion, but my opinion is backed by science and realty, you cannot argue that an unborn child (in this case 20+ wks) is any less human than a child born premature at 25+ weeks and feels less pain, can you?

    This is where the matter of 'opinion' points its finger at pro-choice - it is a matter of personal opinion when a baby is a baby worth life or when a fetus is just a pregnancy and at the mercy of the 'choice' of the mother.  Those are opinions, not facts.

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    Bump burp.  Pardon me.
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    imageblack.kat:
    imageMrsAB1316:
    imageJennifer Ruth:

    Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.    If the abortion is performed so that the fetus emerges alive, then the child will suffer a slow and torturous death as it surely suffocates due to having no lung function.   If you terminate the pregnancy in the womb, it's usually instantaneous.   

     

    "crazycakes prolifers" Ha!  Never heard that one before!  Creative...  a fetus, unless defined as dead, is a living child.  Children that are born at 25wk premature is a living child... why wouldn't one that is in the womb?  Just the difference of environment, NOT a difference in the child.  The majority of prolifers care very much for the woman, the child and her extended family and friends - I can say with 100% certainty, since I am one.  But that whole story about how prolife people don't care about women or the child after he/she is born is what pro-choice people, such as yourself, like to stick to, no matter how many times we prove you wrong.

    Wow, I was referring to the Diickwad governor of Georgia and the wording of that law.  Not all Pro-Lifers are crazy, but there certainly are some that could benefit from years of therapy and medication.   I wasn't referring to you personally, or all pro-lifers.   And, regardless of the view on abortion, the fact that the douchecanoe wants a woman to carry a dead child inside of her for MONTHS is cruel and inhumane to the mother.    

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    @black.kat

    #1. You assume I haven't done research on prolife websites. You would be incorrect. I have seen the pictures and read the descriptions of what happens. I felt that I couldn't make an informed decision without doing that. I cried, but didn't change my mind.

    #2. There are lots of women who get abortions for lots of reasons. I don't judge any of them because I can't know the full story. I don't believe that abortions should be used as a form of birth control, but I also KNOW that at least a reasonable amount of those aborted babies would have been born into a life of a lot of pain. Not only those who were aborted for medical reasons, but for socio-economic reasons, drugs, apathy, etc.

    Read Freakonomics by Steven Levit. An amazing book, largely about other topics, but there is a section in on abortion that is based on fact, statistics, and reality.

     

    And now I'm off to bed. And hopefully won't check this futile thread tomorrow. Again, I'm not trying to change your mind. You are welcome to get as few abortions as you'd like and to judge/worry about anyone you'd like. But you aren't going to change my mind either.

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    imageMrsAB1316:
    imageblack.kat:

    "crazycakes prolifers" Ha!  Never heard that one before!  Creative...  a fetus, unless defined as dead, is a living child.  Children that are born at 25wk premature is a living child... why wouldn't one that is in the womb?  Just the difference of environment, NOT a difference in the child.  The majority of prolifers care very much for the woman, the child and her extended family and friends - I can say with 100% certainty, since I am one.  But that whole story about how prolife people don't care about women or the child after he/she is born is what pro-choice people, such as yourself, like to stick to, no matter how many times we prove you wrong.

     

    Wow, I was talking about the insensitive Diickwad that is the GA governor, not you.   Not all prolifers are crazy but there certainly are some that are.  

    You stated Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.  I took that comment to say "crazycake prolifers" in general.  You didn't say him specifically, and I re-read it to make sure.

    Yes some are crazy, just as there are crazy pro-choice people, but just because they exists doesn't mean that both groups should be linked with the crazies and that is what your line seemed to say.  I hear that crap all the time, that we don't care about living children or women, it is so OLD and wrong!!!

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    imageblack.kat:

    You stated Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.  I took that comment to say "crazycake prolifers" in general.  You didn't say him specifically, and I re-read it to make sure.

    Yes some are crazy, just as there are crazy pro-choice people, but just because they exists doesn't mean that both groups should be linked with the crazies and that is what your line seemed to say.  I hear that crap all the time, that we don't care about living children or women, it is so OLD and wrong!!!

    I am sure that YOU personally care about all people, but I have spoken with and debated with many of the insane ones who will actually say that they don't care what happens to the kid once it's on the outside as long as it makes it on the outside.    Perhaps that's just been my experience.  And, in all honesty, I don't have a problem with pro-life people.  I have a problem with any group of people trying to shove their beliefs down someone else's throat.   You don't want to have an abortion, fine.  It doesn't affect me.  You do want one??  Again, fine...it doesn't affect me.   I personally wouldn't have an abortion...but I shouldn't keep someone else from making that CHOICE.  

     

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    imageterri.m.reid@gmail.com:

    @black.kat

    #1. You assume I haven't done research on prolife websites. You would be incorrect. I have seen the pictures and read the descriptions of what happens. I felt that I couldn't make an informed decision without doing that. I cried, but didn't change my mind.

    #2. There are lots of women who get abortions for lots of reasons. I don't judge any of them because I can't know the full story. I don't believe that abortions should be used as a form of birth control, but I also KNOW that at least a reasonable amount of those aborted babies would have been born into a life of a lot of pain. Not only those who were aborted for medical reasons, but for socio-economic reasons, drugs, apathy, etc.

    Read Freakonomics by Steven Levit. An amazing book, largely about other topics, but there is a section in on abortion that is based on fact, statistics, and reality.

     

    And now I'm off to bed. And hopefully won't check this futile thread tomorrow. Again, I'm not trying to change your mind. You are welcome to get as few abortions as you'd like and to judge/worry about anyone you'd like. But you aren't going to change my mind either.

    I am not judging anyone, but that seems to always be the thing that people like to lean back on, that I am (or prolife people are) judging these women in these situations - we are NOT.  I can't say it enough, because people don't want to admit that we do actually care about the woman, about her unborn child, about her husband or partner, about her family and they ignore the attempts made to prove how much we care.

    All abortions, for any reason, are a form of birth control.  It is a simple, but heartbreaking truth.

    I could really disect your #2 - but you said you are off to bed.  If you are interested in hearing how science and prolife programs can completely invalidate why you wrote, please message me, but I doubt you will.

    And my focus isn't to change your mind, believe it or not (just another assumption like the judgement thing).  Only you can change your mind once you are at the point where you can validate your old way of thinking.

    Like I said, I know what I have to say isn't popular, and I don't make many friends this way believe it or not.  But I like to push what people have settled on choosing and I am interested to see if what is said by others can push me in a different direction.

    Thank you for your permission to let me not get abortions and judge/worry others, though, that was thoughtful!  I don't get abortions and I try not to judge, but I do worry about others esp those unborn little ones.  I am glad you find that acceptable!

     

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    imageMrsAB1316:
    imageblack.kat:

    You stated Just another example that crazycakes prolifers care more about a fetus than a living child.  I took that comment to say "crazycake prolifers" in general.  You didn't say him specifically, and I re-read it to make sure.

    Yes some are crazy, just as there are crazy pro-choice people, but just because they exists doesn't mean that both groups should be linked with the crazies and that is what your line seemed to say.  I hear that crap all the time, that we don't care about living children or women, it is so OLD and wrong!!!

    I am sure that YOU personally care about all people, but I have spoken with and debated with many of the insane ones who will actually say that they don't care what happens to the kid once it's on the outside as long as it makes it on the outside.    Perhaps that's just been my experience.  And, in all honesty, I don't have a problem with pro-life people.  I have a problem with any group of people trying to shove their beliefs down someone else's throat.   You don't want to have an abortion, fine.  It doesn't affect me.  You do want one??  Again, fine...it doesn't affect me.   I personally wouldn't have an abortion...but I shouldn't keep someone else from making that CHOICE.  


    Those insane people you have debated in the past that said they do not care about the child once he is born are NOT pro-life people and please next time talking to them, tell them that.  They are not part of the pro-life movement.  And it isn't just your experience, I run into them as well, more times than I like, when I am volunteering in this area of my life.  They don't get 'it' and they are exausting, because they just make more work for us who are in this type of work for the long-haul.  One man I have been able to work with 1x - a sidewalk counselor at an aboriton clinic is the god-father to 2 different babies he helped save by talking with the mothers as they went into the planned parenthood to abort.  He is in their life for the rest of his - these are true pro-life people.  You have to be willing to be there and be responsible for the lives that you save, otherwise, what is the point.

    That being said, you basically quoted one of my personal faves that pro-choice people like to throw our way... "don't like abortion? don't have one."  gee, if it was just that simple.  it is sort of like what they said in the past.... "don't like slavery?  don't own a slave"  it made sense back when there was slavery, because a lot of people believed that there was nothing wrong with slavery and it wasn't against the law AND that blacks weren't actual human beings (see any similarities to the unborn to slaves? you should)!  so then because it was legal, then it made it right and okay to do, then the same applies to abortion now.   Also what is at stake in an abortion is not something most people should ignore and turn a blind eye to, the planned killing of an unborn human child.  The logic behind telling me to ignore the fact that a human life hangs in the balance of a choice, is about as logical as Hitler saying, "don't like killing Jews?  don't kill one" and people who KNEW he was killing innocent people by the thousands should just turn a blind eye, because what he did, was also legal.

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    imagembm1983:

    I guess i don't get the babies feel pain argument. Of course babies feel pain, but how is it unacceptable for an unborn to feel pain during a late term abortion, but yet completely acceptable for a baby to be circumcised? 

    not really comparing the life or death of the fetus, just the acceptable ratio of pain between an unborn baby and a born baby.

    Hopefully i'm making sense and i'm not trying to insight a riot either. Just honestly love to hear the differences of opinion. I love having open discussions on hard topics, it's how we all learn from each other.

    in this post you tried to (I don't know) challenge my point of both unborn and born children feeling pain by trying to relate the invasive life-ending procedure of an abortion to a circumcision... and then you yourself made your own comparison invalid to your challenge (or whatever it was).  so I am a little confused.

    but.... I too like the open discussion that allows room for everyone (including myself) to hear or learn something new, yet I have to be honest, I really haven't heard anything new or what I haven't debated yet.

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    Oh blackcat, I was wondering if you were going to step in as the "champion of the unborn", and I see you didn't disappoint. 

    If I let you into my ute, can I dictate your parenting choices too??

     

    I remember getting into this with you back in January, as I have had first hand experience with ending my child's life to stop his suffering, and  you decided to take the opportunity to judge and belittle from your ivory tower of inexperience. 

    I will give you a virtual high five for limiting the judgey tone/language in this post (compared to your previous diatribe). But still doesn't change the fact that you are trying to push your view down my throat. If you have a terminal/suffering child and choose to take it to term, I'm not going to enter into posts like this to constantly remind you how inhumane your choice is. And yet, that is exactly what you are doing here: telling women how inhumane their choice is. 

    I don't know if you are aware, but carrying a terminal child is not without health risks to the mother. But, eff the mother's health, right? As long as a terminal baby dies in god's time, that's all that matters. 


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    Just thought I'd say I'm with Black.Kat on all points.  Didn't want to just leave you to the wolves...
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    imageintheflowers:

    I'm not interested in getting into a huge debate with the anti-choice crowd because the whole thing just disgusts me. 

    Confused So that makes you and yours what .... anti-life? 

    That said, while I'm against abortion in most cases, it does sadden me that there can't be compassionate exceptions made for women in truly heart wrenching situations where the baby has passed or will soon.  I do NOT agree that a woman should be forced to carry a dead or dying child, just because of the date of her pregnancy.  

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    imageBethevans85:
    Just thought I'd say I'm with Black.Kat on all points.  Didn't want to just leave you to the wolves...

    We're farm animals, not wolves. Duh. Wink

    Seriously though I'm with Anita. This disgusts me far too much to be eloquent today.  

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    black.cat:

    You do realize there is more at stake here than just the lives of those "precious little ones," right? This is how we women will lose our rights as humans.

    First, state governments are trying to pretend a ruling by the Supreme court doesn't exist. They are moving in against abortion. I predict within the next 4 years we will hear bills that bar any abortions after 8 weeks, then followed by those that bar any after 4, and so on until the states have made abortion illegal.

    Second, once again, the states are trying to limit our access to drugs that not only prevent pregnancy, but also help to battle diseases like endo, help to relieve the effects of PMDD (something I suffer from, and let me tell you, it's almost worse than chronic depression) and severe menstrual pain, among many others.

    Third, we already have very limited benefits as far as becoming new mothers. We are charged an arm and a leg to give birth in a hospital, where in some states you are legally required to be. We are guaranteed NO paid leave to care for a new child. Some women are guaranteed 12 weeks without pay, but not all. These are all the wonderful effects of living in a society where companies are placed before the individuals who fill their ranks. 

    And my last point for now, since I really need to get some work done: we are a part of a culture that openly mocks and insults women. Even though this is the 21st century, our husbands, fathers, brothers, politicians, as well as the media are teaching young and old men that it's okay to belittle women. Jokes like this:

    image

    are common, and generate plenty of laughs. Just look at your facebook feed, at primetime television. Listen to what politicians like Terry England say about women.

    Then, I want you to think if this is really just about protecting dem' babies, or if this is all really part of a systemic campaign against women.

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    I find this to be very upsetting.  Unbelievable!!!  Talk about going backwards in time.  
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    imagedamabo80:

    Oh blackcat, I was wondering if you were going to step in as the "champion of the unborn", and I see you didn't disappoint. 

    If I let you into my ute, can I dictate your parenting choices too??

     

    I remember getting into this with you back in January, as I have had first hand experience with ending my child's life to stop his suffering, and  you decided to take the opportunity to judge and belittle from your ivory tower of inexperience. 

    I will give you a virtual high five for limiting the judgey tone/language in this post (compared to your previous diatribe). But still doesn't change the fact that you are trying to push your view down my throat. If you have a terminal/suffering child and choose to take it to term, I'm not going to enter into posts like this to constantly remind you how inhumane your choice is. And yet, that is exactly what you are doing here: telling women how inhumane their choice is. 

    I don't know if you are aware, but carrying a terminal child is not without health risks to the mother. But, eff the mother's health, right? As long as a terminal baby dies in god's time, that's all that matters. 

    Yes

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    Yikes.  Hopefully somebody can fight it in court....  There are so many other problems in our government -- why must they tackle something they have no business in?!
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    I don't have a lot of time to respond to everything, I can later tonight, but I have a busy day, but I wanted to take a quick moment to tie up some obvious misunderstandings or misreadings of what I have said.

    I understand that when on a board on not face to face we can all read things with the tone that we choose or react to - we all do that.

    I find it interesting how someone thinks that I have a certain "tone" which is judgemental and then uses that excuse to make side comments "champion of the unborn?"  or "protecting dem babies". Unless, that tone wasn't sarcastic either right.  So lets cut through that bs - don't talk to me about my tone when you obviously do the exact same thing.

    The number one thing I want to write is about people assuming that I am not thinking about the mothers... um how many posts did I specifically say that abortion is about the mother, the child, her husband and her family.  Even though some want to say that the number one person that is involved in this is the mother, she is not - it affects all of her loved ones.  If you read into that, like I don't care about the mother, then I am sorry for you, but that is not what I said.  If you were able to see a glimpse of the work that is done in the pro-life community and stop believing all of the verbal regurgitation that is said about pro-lifers you would see how completely wrong it is to say that we forget about the woman or don't care about women.  I am a broken record, I have said this in numerous posts, but it is conveniently being ignored, so you can try and use it against me, I won't let you because your assumption is a lie.  So stop.

    Yes, I know that we are talking about babies that won't survive out of the womb, yes I know what we are talking about and I am not judging anyone's choice - I never said, shame on those mothers, if you want to make up your own story to what I have said than that is your own conclusion, NOT my words.  If you read correctly I said, the only time I believe in the choice of abortion IS WHEN THE MOTHER'S LIFE IS AT RISK.  Seems like that was ignored.  Please go back and read my posts about late term abortions, it is the way they are done that I am judging, they are horrible ways to kill anyone, much less an unborn child.  THAT is what I stand against... then by default, I don't like a woman's choice to do it, does not mean that is filled with judgement. 

    scarlette - you brought about many ideas about how "women's health care" is being affected by what is going on and how this is a "war on women"... I do have many points to contradict legally and scientifically what you have to say (which by the way... do you guys have a scrip you use?  cause it all sounds the same).  I am not going to get into it unless you really want to - this post was originally about making women go to term with a dead child in the womb and the ban of late term abortions, not about the whole "women's health care" mess.... we can get into it, but I am sure we will just run into brick walls with one another.... so it is up to you.  But I do have to say one thing... you said that "they are moving against abortion" and you couldn't be more right!!!  That is the whole point.  When talking about abortion in this way, a very very small percent of abortions are done in cases of life of the mother, rape, incest... it is less than 3%...  that number does not give validation to the rest of the 98% of abortions done in this country.

    Now I have to go.... thank you to the ladies that showed up to say that support and understand what I am saying.... I know it isn't easy to say you are pro-life on these boards and anywhere else, so thank you!

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    imageblack.kat:
    imageterri.m.reid@gmail.com:

    @black.kat

    The difference is that pro-choice people aren't trying to make any decisions for you. You are welcome to have any opinion you want, but that doesn't mean there should be legislation forcing that opinion on others, whose circumstances you can't know.

    I understand that.  However, the decision that is at stake here is the life of another human being.  We step in all of the time to save the lives of people (out of the womb of course) in this country and other countries and it is the right thing to do, to save lives of those being threatened... yet, when the lives are hidden away in the womb, it is "forcing that 'opinion' on others"?

    I have my opinion, but my opinion is backed by science and realty, you cannot argue that an unborn child (in this case 20+ wks) is any less human than a child born premature at 25+ weeks and feels less pain, can you?

    This is where the matter of 'opinion' points its finger at pro-choice - it is a matter of personal opinion when a baby is a baby worth life or when a fetus is just a pregnancy and at the mercy of the 'choice' of the mother.  Those are opinions, not facts.

    Im on my phone so I don't have the specific studies but most of what I have read states a fetus doesn't feel pain until 24 to 26 weeks which is about the time they are considered medically viable. So yes, there is a huge difference since you want to stand on science. Also, many clinics do offer pain medication to the fetus unless the mother declines. Its my understanding in some areas they are required to offer it. 

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    I don't feel like quoting vague drivel, but here's what I have to say in response to black.cat:

    You're right, the point of this post was about a politician who successfully passed a bill limiting abortion. However, it wasn't to discuss that actual bill, it was to discuss the way this man spoke of women. The outrage is in the fact that he compares us to farm animals. That he has no care for a woman's emotional health. None of us came on here to argue whether the choice to have an abortion should be allowed or not, we voiced disgust over this man's vocal opinions of women.

    You turned this into a battle of anti-choice vs. pro-choice. And instead of presenting any cited facts,  you simply claim you have legal and scientific evidence to counter everything someone who opposes your opinion says. You then claim you have too much to do, or don't feel like taking the time to get into the argument to actually use your citations to give credit to your claims.

    I'm sorry that you are so close-minded on one facet of the debate that you fail to see any bigger pictures, and that you fail to respect what your peers have to say. I hope you never have to go through what danabo has, that you never are put in the position where you have to choose. But at the same time, if that day does come, I hope you are able to choose. Because if it does happen, I honestly believe you will want to have a choice, even if that choice is to continue and let your deity take the baby's life when it sees fit. It is a hopeless feeling to have no choice in matters that effect your body.

    The last thing I hope you will reflect upon is that we are not anti-life. We are pro-choice. The reason choice is important is because no two people have the exact same beliefs. I, for one, am atheist. I do not follow a code set forth by a holy book. I follow morals that I believe help make us decent humans. I do not impose my beliefs, or lack thereof, onto others, and I hope to not have the beliefs and practices of others imposed on myself.

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