Baptism vs Infant Dedication (family struggle)

nerdbaby

Of course, isn't it always?

So, background:

I'm Christian, no denomination, I just decided in high school (after a lot of thought and reflection and argument and such) that I believed in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and I would say the "doctrine" I subscribe to is to follow Christ's teachings in the New Testament and attend a church that does the same.  Hubs is from a Catholic family, complete with Uncle Somebody who's a Catholic priest.  It came up today that his family (MIL especially) is expecting a Catholic baptism, want baby to wear the family baptism gown, have Uncle Somebody to do the ceremony in the family church, etc etc etc.

So to keep things simple, here's the troubling equation:

I struggle with the concept of baptism for babies because I believe it's a choice you make at a certain age of maturity (different for everyone). I don't believe in baby purgatory and shudder at the whole thought behind it.

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DH doesn't care if we baptize baby.  He doesn't care if we go to church ever. He had no opinion prior to today, other than "whatever you want" since between the two of us I am the one who has an active spiritual life. 

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Now that his mom has brought it up, his stance has changed to "but it's important to my mom so can't we just do it." And for him it would be just that, but for me it's more. 

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I mentioned the infant dedication service that my church encourages for parents to give a personal testimony and introduce their child to the congregation, no ritual, no "baby may not make it to heaven without this" scariness, just a statement of intent to raise your child in the faith.  Response to this from MIL was "Well that's the same as a baptism, why not just do the whole thing?"

[Well if it's the same, then infant dedication at the church I regularly attend it is! All are welcome to attend. Cake served promptly after.]

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Marriage is about compromise, putting others needs before your own, giving giving giving, yaddy yaddy yadda...

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Is this a time to compromise or is this a stand your ground time? I wish it was as simple as re-watching the SATC when Miranda and Steve basically have the same argument.. but Miranda didn't believe in anything, and this is real life, so yeah.... 

Thoughts?  Also open to different views on baptism if we have any Catholics in the house.

Medic99

I am biased because I believe that baptism is a choice when the person is old enough to comprehend the significance of what is taking place. I am sorry you are dealing with the struggle of family pressure. Personally for me this would be a stand your ground time. If your DH isn't active in his church and it is the "same thing" , then why not dedicate the baby where you are active?! That is just my opinion and I hope this works out for the best for your family.

happyhoopla

My background: Grew up going to a bunch of different churchs (baptist, episcopal, presbyterian, etc) and my husband grew up catholic, but not very devoted. When we got engaged, we joined a presbyterian church.

My thought is that I would want to leave as many options open to my kid as possible. From what I understand, if your child ends up wanting to join the catholic church later on (not sure if this is ok with you or not), it would be much simpler to participate in the church if she was baptised in the church as an infant. Baptising her now doesn't lock her into the church, but it allows for opportunities and will make your IL's feel good. Most churches that do infant baptism later do confirmation classes where kids actually take ownership of their choice to join the church. In my church, we believe that people are "saved" simply by the grace of God (so no infant purgatory), but we baptize babies more as a symbol of their belonging to our church community.

You need to do what you're comfortable with, but if I was in your situation, I would just do it. It'll make your IL's happy and won't hurt anyone. Good luck!

AmberMH08

i think you should do both because they are important to tradition and to your faith and introduction into your church as well...

im not religious but ...i think its all ritual and means something to parents more than god... no god is going to send all babies that are not saved in a particular way to hell... kind of like babtising the dead is pointless... its all in the way u live your life and babies had the chance to live yet so there is nothing to judge to send them to hell...

myheromyworld89

I also believe that baptism is what you do when you've make a conscience choice to live that life.  However I can see where your MIL is coming from in that, God forbid, something happen to your baby, she was raised to believe that the child won't make it to heaven (or whatever it is that catholics believe).  I'm not so much seeing it as a comprimise with your husband, as much as with you MIL.  Do they actively attend church? If so, I think maybe you should consider a comprimse.  Something along the lines of doing both.  Do a dedication first and his parents must be present at that if they want you to also do a baptism.  But I do not think that you should forfeit doing a dedication at your church altogether.  That is part of you belief system and your church is where your child will be regularly attending, I think it's important that you not budge on that part of it.

Asquared

I'm with you. Baptism is a public statement of faith- I've never met a baby with a firm grasp on faith.  Put your foot down (in a nice Christian way, of course) and tell them that you'll be doing the dedication and explain that it's a parent's promise and you plain and simply believe that YOUR child will get baptised when he/she is ready to chose it for themselves.  My dh's family is presbyterian, so quite similar, but I've asked my husband if he even wanted to go through "confirmation" and since he said no, he wasn't interested in anything spiritual until college when he really became a Christian- there was no argument luckily!   I'm sure it also helps that in-laws are 3000 miles away.

FormerlyKrista555

This is not about MIL. It is about you and your DH and what you want to do. She needs to butt out.  The end.

rebbieW

I think baptism means what you want it to mean. If it's done in the Catholic church, there's no reason for you to focus on purgatory, etc. You can just look at it as an introduction to God/church/the congregation. Later, when baby is old enough, you can ask if s/he wants to be baptised of her own volition, at which point it will take on the meaning you identify with.

Just FYI, DH was raised as a protestant minister's kid, I was raised Catholic and neither of us follow a faith now. Kids were not baptised.

mamak85

I'm Christian, no denomination, also. This is a very touchy subject. DH parents love to stick their hands in everything we decide. If they don't like it, they try to tell us what and what not to do. If I where in your shoes I would only do the dedication because it's what you believe, and if hubby don't really care what kind you have then it shouldn't be an Issue. I would have baby dressed in the family gown for the dedication that way baby has some piece from hubby's side involved in the dedication. But that's it. Don't let them tell you what they think needs to happen. Because you give 1in they take a foot. This is you and your hubby's child not their''s . They had their moment. Sorry if I sound harsh,but after you deal with what I deal with. You will understand...

eav2c

Even as a Catholic, I get 100% where you are coming from. While we might disagree on specific logistics, I firmly believe that if you, as the parent, feel uncomfortable about something that you shouldn't be forced to do it just because of one side of a families particular religious affiliation... nor should you have to do it to "please" people. I also don't think that MIL should have any say in the decision whatsoever. A child can be baptized later in life, should you guys decide to do that (or should your LO decide that). I was baptized in later elementary school and had the ability to attend different Christian churches with my parents as they practiced separately. I didn't have to be baptized but I was old enough to follow my own spiritual direction.

I think an infant dedication ceremony sounds wonderful. Baptisms are wonderful, too. I think this needs to be part compromise for you and DH but not for MIL. Why does DH have such strong convictions to now baptize? Discuss his views... discuss yours. Above all, I wouldn't budge on this topic if it's only to appease MIL. I adore my MIL but if she pressed this issue upon me, I wouldn't hesitate to kindly express that DH and I will do what is best for our family situation. Just discuss the issue and take time to think about it. It isn't something that needs to be rushed into! GL!

morethancottoncandy

This is not a hill I'd billing willing to die on.  I think you should compromise and do both ceremonies.  At the end of the day, its just a small ceremony.  It's not locking your baby into the Catholic religion, but leaves the option open to him/her as an adult. 

I see so many women on here locked in some sort of strange power struggle with their MIL's and honestly it seems to me to be more about the balance of power than anything else.  Pick your battles. 

celestialnyte

We are doing both a dedication and a baptism. I was raised Catholic, however no longer attend a Catholic church - I work at a UCC church. MH doesn't attend church at all, but was raised Christian.I am baptizing because I know its important to MY side of the family, and we're dedicating because its important to HIS side of the family.

IMO, if you have both religions in the house, you should do both. Yes, MIL is butting in, but if your LO would like to go to church w/ MIL one day, or decide that's the religion they would like to participate in, having them baptized will make it easier for them to do so. Whatever they choose when they're older, they would already have taken their first steps there. And MIL, I'm sure, will be speaking to your LO about her religion, etc.

Even being raised Catholic, I still have a really hard time with the 'doom and gloom' part of a baby being in purgatory forever if they're not baptized. However, it is what that religion believes, and it would seem easier to me to baptize and then educate your child on both religions so they have  firm foundation in both, then NOT and have MIL make comments about it. 

IMHO.

allisonmarie22

I say this is definitely a time to compromise. My husband is a Presbyterian and they "baptize" at birth with the sprinkle on the forehead. The church his parents go to is the church where he was baptized and his father was baptized. It means a LOT to him and his family that our babies be baptized there.  My husband doesn't ask for much, so we are doing it.

However, I am Baptist and I don't really believe in the purpose or validity (really) of baby baptism. I'm of the same belief as you that it is a personal choice that should be made by an individual when they are old enough to understand their commitment to Christ and his commitment to them. 

Anyhoo...we attend a Baptist church where we live in GA, but on our first trip to MD after the babies are born we will be baptizing them in my husband's church. I'm going along with it, but they will also be allowed to choose baptism when they are older at the church we attend at home. 

I don't feel there is anything wrong with that. It's a compromise we came to that allows everyone to still feel like their beliefs, feelings and desires are respected.  

Good Luck!!

zappatini

My husband and are I are Catholic (but admittedly not holy rollers nor do we religiously go to church due to travel schedules for work) and will baptize our child.  Our belief has always been that baptism was an early choice by parents to raise the child as a Catholic.  That's the commitment cause its a catholic sacrament.  If you don't plan to do that then I think this would be a waste of time for you to commit to right now. Are you signed up as members with a Catholic Church? If not, this could be a hassle too as we had to deal with getting married out of state from our home parish and the visiting parishes were a total pain. What I found was that the Catholic Church, can be difficult and a lot of time to work thru.  For instance, if you were not married in a Catholic Church you may have some additional hoops to jump thru.  They also do interviews and stuff to make sure your practices and beliefs are in line with canon law and if a priest isn't buying it that particular priest/church may deny the sacrament.  We had to deal with this when we got married in a Catholic Church and we had both been raised Catholic and gone thru all the sacraments thru confirmation.  We finally got everything to go thru but had to have a higher level priest that we knew personally come in and do our ceremony at that church. If your husband's Uncle is local he can probably help you through a lot of the politics to get it to happen but I couldn't believe how uncooperative the churches were being with us.

morethancottoncandy

zappatini:

What I found was that the Catholic Church, can be difficult and a lot of time to work thru.  For instance, if you were not married in a Catholic Church you may have some additional hoops to jump thru.  They also do interviews and stuff to make sure your practices and beliefs are in line with canon law and if a priest isn't buying it that particular priest/church may deny the sacrament.  We had to deal with this when we got married in a Catholic Church and we had both been raised Catholic and gone thru all the sacraments thru confirmation.  We finally got everything to go thru but had to have a higher level priest that we knew personally come in and do our ceremony at that church. If your husband's Uncle is local he can probably help you through a lot of the politics to get it to happen but I couldn't believe how uncooperative the churches were being with us.

It really depends on the church.  My sister, who was previously divorced and remarried in Vegas (so, definitely not the Catholic church) had both her children batptized in the Catholic church and they weren't required to jump through rings of fire to do it.  They just had to do an hour long class. NBD.

kg_08

I'm with you on baptism being a choice later .... am outward symbol of a person's inward change and commitment to Jesus. If you don't believe in baby baptism, then DON'T do it! If your MIL thinks that baby dedication and baptism are the same thing then make her come to your church for the dedication. Do not compromise your beliefs to make someone else happy. It's a serious matter.

nmeirose

zappatini:

My husband and are I are Catholic (but admittedly not holy rollers nor do we religiously go to church due to travel schedules for work) and will baptize our child.  Our belief has always been that baptism was an early choice by parents to raise the child as a Catholic.  That's the commitment cause its a catholic sacrament.  If you don't plan to do that then I think this would be a waste of time for you to commit to right now. Are you signed up as members with a Catholic Church? If not, this could be a hassle too as we had to deal with getting married out of state from our home parish and the visiting parishes were a total pain. What I found was that the Catholic Church, can be difficult and a lot of time to work thru.  For instance, if you were not married in a Catholic Church you may have some additional hoops to jump thru.  They also do interviews and stuff to make sure your practices and beliefs are in line with canon law and if a priest isn't buying it that particular priest/church may deny the sacrament.  We had to deal with this when we got married in a Catholic Church and we had both been raised Catholic and gone thru all the sacraments thru confirmation.  We finally got everything to go thru but had to have a higher level priest that we knew personally come in and do our ceremony at that church. If your husband's Uncle is local he can probably help you through a lot of the politics to get it to happen but I couldn't believe how uncooperative the churches were being with us.

This.  It is not as easy as just going in and saying "I want to baptise my child catholic".  Most catholic churches will not baptise a baby if the parents were not married in the church, because baptism is supposed to mean that you are going to raise that child catholic.  I think that people who are saying 'just do both' like it is so easy have not had to deal with the catholic church specifically- maybe it is easier with different sects of protestantism.

I was raised cathlic but converted to presbyterianism.  My husb and I had a slight disagreement about what church we were going to go to and baptise the baby in after we moved this summer, however I was the one who feels strongly about my faith and I am the one who goes to church regularly and actually gets something out of it.  So I said to him, sorry, I get to decide this one, because I am vested in this decision much more than you.  His parents have no say whatsoever, as they should not, since we will be the ones raising this child in a certain faith.  So our baby will be baptised in my church. 

My biggest problem with doing both is that when you marry or baptise in the catholic church, you have to vow that you will raise the child catholic.  If you don't plan to do that (and it does not sound like you do), you're lying before God.  Call me crazy, but I think that is worse than telling your MIL that you are not going to baptise your child catholic. 

Anyway good luck and I say, stand your ground!  Compromise does not always mean giving in on everything- it means that when something is very important to one spouse and not the other, the other should recognize that and be amenable to it. 

cmbarrytx

In the Catholic Church, baptism is, in part, a promise on the part of the parents as well as a sacrament to address original sin.  The choice and/or commitment of the child/individual comes at Confirmation, which generally happens at high school age for most children.

 You should absolutely do what you think is best, but I do think that part of the issue is a difference in terminology as opposed to doctrine.  I don't mean to ignore the real issues, which are absolutely real and there.  I just don't think they are as big as you might think.  Of course, many Catholics are woefully ignorant about their own religion and don't explain it well, so that could exacerbate the problem.

Middlesnpoddles

OP what church do you go to?  Just curious..

I'm sorry you're having to go through this.. it's a tough call.  

It sounds like he's just doing it to please his mother.. and in that case, I would stand your ground and do what YOU want because you are the mother, not your MIL.   

LittleApple

FormerlyKrista555:

This is not about MIL. It is about you and your DH and what you want to do. She needs to butt out.  The end.

100% this

This is about YOUR child, not hers.  

anna12

Can you call the Uncle that is a priest and talk to him about your concerns as well as beliefs? It may be that once you lay things out to him, he may not even feel that a Catholic baptism is appropriate (saving you some family headache) or he may be able to offer another option. Having him in on the conversation--even though the final decision is obviously a very private one between you and DH--might show that you are willing to consider it, at the very least.

MrsMandaK

nmeirose:

My biggest problem with doing both is that when you marry or baptise in the catholic church, you have to vow that you will raise the child catholic.  If you don't plan to do that (and it does not sound like you do), you're lying before God.  Call me crazy, but I think that is worse than telling your MIL that you are not going to baptise your child catholic. 

I agree with this completely. As a Catholic myself, I think it's very important to baptise my children, but I think it's silly to promise something you don't intend to follow through with (raising your child to be Catholic).

MrsMandaK

Oh, and FTR, this is what the Catholic Church officially says about unbaptized children in the catechism:

The Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus? tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism. (CCC 1261)

kdjudd

I have the same beliefs that you do. I have also had problems with my family in regards to religious ceremonies and beliefs. Honestly, this is a time where you need to stand your ground. The baby dedication ceremony sounds lovely and you can invite all of your family to attend. Your MIL needs to respect your beliefs and your choice to raise your child with those same beliefs.  

TravelSnob

FWIW - the Catholic church no longer believes in purgatory (limbo) for unbaptized children.  The Pope changed that in (I think) 2007.  Click here if you want more info.

The baptism as some have said, is a promise to raise your child in the Catholic faith.  If neither you nor your husband have any intentions of doing so then baptizing your child Catholic would be pointless.  Ask your husband if he intends to bring your child to Catholic church once a month.  If it's really important to him to baptize the child then he should want to make a commitment to teach the child about his religion. 

If you're worried about making a choice for the child, well in the Catholic church that choice is made during confirmation, when they chose to be a part of the church.

Not all churches have the same restrictions.  When I contacted my parish regarding baptism, the secretary told me that it didn't matter what the parents of the child were baptized as, as long as at least one godparent was baptized.  You did have to do 2-1hour prep classes before the baptismal.

pugznploons

I do think you need to clarify with the uncle what baptism in their church means.  If it is just a ceremony, fine, but if you are committing somehow to raising the child in the catholic church, then you really have no business doing it unless you plan to do just that. 

I think it makes the most sense to do what the church you attend regularly does.  If that's a dedication find a way to make that special for the ILs, have the baby wear the gown, have a small luncheon at your house afterwards to celebrate. 

My dh was baptized as an infant and we attended a non denom church for several months before pursuing membership and finding out he would have to be rebaptized as an adult to become a member.  We stopped attending promptly as we don't believe in rebaptism.  He was baptised and then confirmed, that should be enough.

This comes down to doing what you and your husband want, the ILs have NO SAY in this.  It is about how you plan to raise your child and what kind of congregation you belong to and plan to raise them in. 

 

SWBs Wifey

DH wanted to baptize  (he's from a Lutheran background) and I didn't because I don't promise to raise my children with any specific faith.  Should they show an interest in choosing a religion [WHENEVER] then I will support that.  *I* don't feel like it's my job to give them religion.  It's my job to raise them with valuable morals and an open mind about people of other religious philosophies.  Here was our decision:  We decided NOT to baptize because once done, it can't be UNdone.  Should something ever happen and I feel like my babies need to be baptized, then we can go for it then without regrets.    Does that make sense?

hmartinez0809

Well in your case I would just do both. Make every side happy. I am bummed that your MIL is butting in like this. You are married and you are allowed to do the things you feel you should do. I think she is in the wrong. I too am Christian and we will be dedicating our baby girl. My family is Catholic and believes in baptism. But they would NEVER say that we need to baptize because they know it's not their place to make choices. 

courtfsu

You have gotten some great advice here and I was really pleased to read a lot of the posts:)  I agree that it has to be something you feel comfortable with.  The only thing I would add is look to God's word on the matter.  At no time in the Bible did they baptise babies/young children and yet it says that "theirs is the Kingdom of God."

I know it's a tough thing for Catholics to get their head around and they are so steeped in tradition and rituals and have a hard time acknowledging that it is God's grace that saves us and the choice to accept that grace.  It's not what we do that matters, it's what He has done.

Good luck.

coromble

I have the exact same beliefs as you do, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this . Honestly, I do not think you would do this if it is against your faith.  For one thing, the baptism and dedication are in conflict with each other, so if you do both, you will be watering down the significance of both. 

 I would try talking with your husband again and try to get him to understand your side, as well as listen to his side.  once the two of you reach an agreement together, then he should be the one to inform his mother.  Thats the way we have handled these kind of disagreements in the past and it seems to work well.  It's really a decision that is only up to you and hubby....

 One other though, is there a pastor or elder at your church who knows you better that you could go to for advice?? 

MapleStar

Total off board lurker here, but this issue is rearing it's head in our household as well and I was searching thebump for 'catholic posts' to see if there was anything new out there.

My situation is very, very similar - right down to the Uncle Somebody Priest.  DH's family is Catholic while I was raised a Baptist.  Neither of us go to church regularly.  I did go to a Catholic college, and had to take relgion (obviously Catholic Based) classes, so I have been exposed to Catholism in some degree outside my relationship with DH.  I also have made a point of reading the part of the Catechism that deals with Baptism since it keeps coming up.

Everybody else gave you some pretty good advice, so I won't repeat everything I agree/disagree with.  I will say that my main concern was that by baptizing DD now, it would make any decision she makes later essentially pointless since it has already been done.  I was assured by Uncle Priest that if she decided to get baptized again in a different denomination that it would be fine, no big deal, totally her choice.   As I said earlier, I read the Catechism - so I pointed out section 1272, which says "given once and for all, baptism cannot be repeated".  Needless to say I asked for clarification since Uncle Priest and the Catechism were essentially telling me opposite things.  Uncle Priest was caught off guard that I'd actually read it and agreed that you can only be baptized once, so if you are baptized in the Catholic church as an infant it is the one that counts; nothing else will ever be a true baptism.  This combined with a few other things we discussed left me feeling that he was just trying to pull the wool over my eyes, belittle my beliefs and tell me what I wanted to hear so that I would agree to the baptism.  That meeting didn't end well.

Also that bit you said about compromise, while it is true, it should be a compromise between you and DH not you and your MIL.  You are entitled to your beliefs and shouldn't have to compromise them to make your MIL happy.  If it was because DH felt really strongly about it, that would be one thing - but sounds like he has only changed his tune to make MIL happy not because HE really believes it (this is my DH too).

Anyways, I advise unequivocally standing your ground, because the issue won't go away.  DD is 18months now and everytime a new baby comes into the family we seem to have to rehash this whole thing because DH can't grow a spine and just be clear that we aren't doing it.  Also, just beware that if you agree they might use it as a foot hold to try and get a say in what else you should do - and that can be a slippery slope.

Wow, that was a novel - sorry.  Best of luck to you though.

singingirl96

morethancottoncandy:

This is not a hill I'd billing willing to die on.  I think you should compromise and do both ceremonies.  At the end of the day, its just a small ceremony.  It's not locking your baby into the Catholic religion, but leaves the option open to him/her as an adult. 

I see so many women on here locked in some sort of strange power struggle with their MIL's and honestly it seems to me to be more about the balance of power than anything else.  Pick your battles. 

 

I have to agree.  

I'm in the exact situation.  My MIL is the most catholic person I know and I am from a protestant faith.  She has been a thorn on my side from day 1 (11years)... but I plan on being flexible and picking my battles.  I'm letting them them do their ceremony.  Making MIL happy, ultimately makes my hubby happy, and this means a lot to their side of the family.  I don't believe it means anything more than a little bit of water sprinkled in the head... so I'm letting it go.  Its not like they are doing a Satan worshiping ceremony... I'd have to put my foot down if that was the case.  But our God is still the same and I think we all could use as many prayers and blessings we can get!

I plan on doing a dedication as well because it is important to my side of the family.  When my baby is old enough to make his/her own choice, than they can decide which way they want to go.  I know I was brought up being force fed religion and I think that has hurt me more than it has helped me.  Having him exposed to other faiths is also important.

That's my 2 cents!

MaryS001

I believe that infant baptism is about a parent's promise to the child and to the church to raise him or her surrounded by love and a faith community.  The child will, of course, eventually make their own decision about faith, but a baptism at this young age represents a parent's commitment to their baby.  

 Of course, this is a highly personal matter, but perhaps viewing the situation from this perspective could be helpful.  Good luck!