October 2011 Moms
jonnygurl76
member
"Sometimes I am two people. Johnny is the nice one. Cash causes all the trouble. They fight." - Johnny Cash
Can I ask an honest question? re: FF vs. BF
jonnygurl76
member
I keep reading that the BFers make the FFers feel guilty for FFing. I can honestly say I have never seen this on our board, am I missing something? Can someone direct me to the links?
Seriously, the only way you fail with what/how you feed your babies is if you don't feed them at all. And no one is doing this (that we are aware of).
"Sometimes I am two people. Johnny is the nice one. Cash causes all the trouble. They fight." - Johnny Cash
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Re: Can I ask an honest question? re: FF vs. BF
I haven't seen it. I got flamed once because I only feed dd cheetos...hey, she's fed ain't she? lol
Seriously though, whenever SAHM, FF, CIO, Attachment Parenting comes up, the people who do the opposite get all riled. The reason being that by chosing to do things the opposite of how I do it, you think that I'm doing wrong de facto. You breastfeed? Well obviously that means that you think formula is second rate, which means that you think I treat my kid second rate which means you think I'm a terrible mother which means I must now yell at you over the internet that just because you breastfeed, it doesn't mean you love your child more...get it?
Women compare themselves to each other ALL. THE. TIME, and becoming a mother only makes it worse. We think that everyone is judging everything we do..mostly cause its true..but we also don't realize that just as insecure as we may feel about some of our choices, they may feel the same way.
We all really care about doing what is best for our baby, whether or not everyone agrees with it is their problem. If women could just feel confident about their decsions, and not worry about what the next mom thinks, all of the defensiveness will go away.
I BF, and I think it's odd when someone FF gets asked why FF/did they try BF/etc.
I don't know if it's happened on this board or another board, so no links. I get people want to be helpful, but I could see how it could be taken as an insult (especially if I had hard time trying to BF). So I've never seen blatant rudeness, but frequently getting asked why you FF would be frustrating.
I agree with PP, I haven't seen in on this board. In fact, I've felt really supported and have seen others get a lot of support on this whole BF/FF issue on this board. When I've commented on people being insensitive (like on the UO thread today), I'm really talking about people in general.
My apologies if it ever seemed like I was complaining about people here. Thanks to all for being understanding and providing a place to vent/discuss.
I don't think there have been any in-your-face judgmental posts about formula feeding, but we do get a lot of UOs about looking down on women who won't try, etc. Even if a mom did try (and try and try and try, as many on here have done), that still can feel judge-y to them, especially since that's not the way it comes up IRL. When you talk about formula feeding, the people around you don't assume you tried and couldn't for the bazillion reasons that it happens, they assume you just skipped to formula because it's "easier" (which it honestly doesn't seem to be, and it's certainly not cheaper!). Most of the time, in any situation, people (complete strangers even) immediately ask me if I'm breastfeeding. If I wasn't and had been through hell over it, that would be really hard to hear and answer over and over. It would certainly make me sensitive to any comments about BF vs FF.
Our society really needs to get a few things straight about feeding babies. "Breast is best" does NOT mean "formula is bad". And as long as the baby is well fed, it's really not anyone's business WHAT they're fed.
BFP #1: July 12, 2010 Natural M/C: July 26, 2010
BFP #2: January 30 ,2011 Born: September 29, 2011
BFP #3: January 5, 2013 Born: August 25, 2013
Well said, especially the above selection. It's just really hard sometimes as a FF mom to feel the compulsion to explain your circumstance because you'd much rather be breastfeeding, and the guilt that accompanies that can be suffocating at times. I just posted this in the UO thread (before I saw this post) but Danes, I definitely didn't feel hurt by your OP or feel you were trying to stir the pot. I took it more like you were trying to say something along the lines of, "isn't it great that there's better options now for those who can't or choose not to BF." I appreciate that you're sensitive to the sensitivities of FF moms. As a FF mom, I can say that It's hard not to be overly sensitive / defensive when you feel (usually from real life interactions outside this board) that the world is giving you the stink eye for not being a card-carrying, gold-medal-wearing BF mom. I think on this board, at least for the large majority of us, we all understand we're all doing what we can to ensure the health and happiness of our babies.
I agree with/feel the same as crystal. I think in Danes thread earlier some comment in a response was made about how a FF'd baby tured out "OK." That comment just kind of set me off. I know those kind of subtle comments have been said before.
I know that girls on this board do not intentionally put down FFing, but the combination of me being overly sensitive to the issue (for reasons that crystal highlighted) and then the subtle (probably inadvertent) comments just make me feel horrible.
ok, now i have a better understanding of how people feel after reading all of your responses. i was confused if it was our board/IRL/another board etc.....
i don't personally want to make anyone feel as though they have to defend themselves while having a convo about how we feed our babies. just feed your babies and do what is best for your families.
I want to wear a sign that explains to everyone who may judge me, if even for a second, that my babies were born premature, for 10 days of their lives they were fed through a tube in their nose. I had to use a pump to get my milk to come in and to bulid my supply. I had to pump every 2 hours around the clock and still my milk didn't come in for over a week. When it did it was barely enough to feed 1 baby let alone 2. I saw a lactation consultant for 6 weeks. I used a supplemental nursing system for 6 weeks while my babies sucking grew stronger. I took supplements, made lactation cookies, and ate oatmeal every day. I still don't make enough milk for 2 babies. I still nurse them & I still pump. But they get formula 50% of the time. I hate that my body can't make enough breast milk to feed my babies, it makes me sad and makes me feel like a failure. I think once people know my story the judging stops, but I cant tell every passer by who sees me make a bottle in public my story. And I would guess that a majority of FF moms have a story.
Yes, these are all my issues, but when you read comments like "FF mothers should not bed share. They can use a cosleeper, but it's not safe for them to bedshare." it's another reminder of my failure and seems a little judgemental - even though the poster didn't mean it it be. Or when you read a post talking about the (and I'm paraphrasing here) nasty ingredients in formula, it reminds me that I can't give my babies what's best 100% of the time and again I feel guilty for something that wasn't really a choice.
For the moms who BFing came easy, I truly don't think they can understand the pain and guilt that comes to those of us who wanted so badly and tried so hard, but in the end it just didn't work. And sometimes comments about EBF come across as judgemental, but again, that's my issue that I need to work out for myself.
Sorry, that got really long!
This whole post has given me the warm and fuzzies. The fact that everyone can set their differences aside and be supportive of one another is such a great thing to see.
Thank you so much for bringing a calm to a very stressful/drama filled day.
And P.S I know I don't comment frequently but its not my fault I swear...I have a drama baby. (Who I love with all of my heart and soul of course but is still full of drama.)
I didn't see the other post yet as I am just now getting on for the day, but I agree with everything crystal has said. It has more to do with how I put myself down, than what anyone actually says. For the first 2 weeks (or more) after I realized I could not keep up my supply or get DS to latch and switched to formula, anytime someone would ask if I were BF, I would cry. It was like a switch went off in my head that said "they think your horrible if your not BF." Obvioulsy this was an overreaction on my part, but I've gotten better about it. If someone asks me now, I just say no, it didn't work for us. The above highlighted are exactly how I feel.
To all my beautiful FF mamas - just remember, the judgment goes both ways. It seems that with feeding your children you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. *A woman in my breastfeeding class was there because bother her mother and her sister told her breastfeeding was disgusting, so she had no resources.
*I've heard stories of SO's not wanting women to breastfeeding because it'll make their breasts saggy.
*Breastfeeding mothers are asked how long they plan on keeping it up and told they'll never be able to provide their children with all the nutrition they need.
*And you formula feeders don't have to worry about that whole NIP debate. No one cares when you feed your babies in restaurants!
I think part of the reason the women on this board are so fantastic and supportive is because we all get it. There are some choices you make for your children where there is no right answer. Or there is an obvious right answer - healthy nutrition in whatever form works best. (because aside from jpeezy's cheetos it's not like any of us are giving our babies kool-aid in their bottles.)
And FWIW - the reason things like corn syrup are the first ingredient in formulas is because babies need a lot of easily burnable fuel. Breastmilk is really high in "sugar" too, which is why it's described as sweet. It's not like it's being stored in their system. It runs through them.
I just wanted to add a couple thoughts. First, I think this conversation is really important and it's good for ALL of us mommies to hear about. My mother made a point of telling me about her difficulties breastfeeding my brother before I had Lily, and it helped me feel less anxious about whether I would be able to or not. It helped me realize that these things happen and it's not always in our control. She also said she kept trying for far too long and it was affecting her mental state; a frustrated BF baby with a depressed mommy is not going to be better off. But I also wanted to respond to Crystal's statement that for "some women, this is just not true". Just because it didn't work with this baby, doesn't mean it won't in future. My mom tried again with me (I don't know that I would've had the strength to do that after struggling the first time!) and she said that breastfeeding was like a dream with me. I'm not saying that the moms who are FF this time HAVE to try again or anything like that; I'm just saying it can be different. And we should all keep that in mind, because those who are proudly EBF this time might not have the same experience next time.
BFP #1: July 12, 2010 Natural M/C: July 26, 2010
BFP #2: January 30 ,2011 Born: September 29, 2011
BFP #3: January 5, 2013 Born: August 25, 2013
Another "guilty" FF mom here. I agree with all the other posters that so many people IRL have asked me why I'm not bf'ing, and given me the guilt trip about it. Do you know how hard/awkward it is to have to explain to all your coworkers and acquaintances that it's because you have flat nipples, and your baby couldn't latch despite using an SNS and a nipple shield, and that you tried everything but couldn't keep your supply up with pumping?
And I agree that when you assumed you'd be able to bf, looked forward to bf'ing, tried really hard to bf, and went through a sort of grieving process when you realized it wouldn't work out -- it is easy to be sensitive or offended by comments. I appreciate any ladies on this board who do bf but are still supportive of those of us who couldn't
sometimes i think we need to stop and redirect our energy and just have a conversation like this---this is good for all of us, FFers and BFers. it helps us to understand where each other is coming from.
i think it was *blueyedwife* that said it--but BFers get the side eye also. with DD my MIL asked me EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. that she called or saw me if i was still BFing for the entire year that i BF her. she asked DH "how long is she going to keep that up?" and "is she ever going to let her learn to drink from a cup?" DH finally had to tell her that the way we choose to feed our child isn't up for discussion and she got the point because she hasn't made a single comment about it this time with DS.
i have also been called "crunchy", and been told "oh, you are one of those moms"...ummm, a mom that feeds her baby? and i have heard that my child wouldn't take to drinking "real" milk and that her nutrition would suffer.....guess what? she drinks 2 gallons a week and her nutrition is just fine.
100% agree. Love this statement.
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omg...you just made me laugh!!
Then my job is done here!
We are having brunch next week. I'll take pics for you!
Yes, I had these exact issues. It is awkward and I often leave the flat nipple part out, but it is a huge factor in DS latching issues. He was also what they called "tongue tied" (thanks to me, it's hereditary), which means that thin piece of skin uner his tongue went all the way to the tip. This meant he couldn't stick his tongue out of his mouth. We had it snipped, but he just couldn't figure out how to use it correctly. These are things I don't feel like telling every single person, so I simply don't. I don't need to explain myself to strangers.
I'm so sorry if anything I said today re formula offended or upset anyone. Clearly, there are emotions at play here that I didn't understand. Thank you for this thread.
I haven't seen much on the board that upsets me over not being able to BF but I couldn't believe how judgemental people could be IRL. I started a new job at the beginning of January and one of my co-workers has diarrhea of the mouth about everything undoubtedly. She was bragging about how she was still BFing her 18 month old and how he has never been sick. She then turned to me and said "How long do you plan to BF your LO?" I quietly said that I was not breastfeeding. She proceeded to tell me how Breast was best... like I didn't know. I have since stayed away from her because I don't feel like I need to explain myself to her but I will explain it on here just to get it off my chest (bad pun). When my DS was born he would not latch, we tried everything. I finally got him to latch on day 3 but he would only stay on for a minute and even then he would only latch about once a day. I was determinted to give him the nutrients from BFing so I pumped and pumped and pumped. It literally felt like all I did was pump. My supply was very low I could only get him about 2ozs each time I pumped. Then I received the scariest news of my life, one of the newborn screening tests came back abnormal. The Doctor said to watch for seizures and lethargy (sp). I did not sleep for 3 days because I was afraid for my DS. We retested and the results were even more alarming so they sent us to a specialist at the Childrens Hospital. In the meantime with the stress my supply was so low that I was about to give up and it was seeming as though DS was spitting up more of the BM than the formula. We decided to stop pumping the day before we went to the Childrens Hospital. They retested DS and were still finding the same issue. The problem was a protien deffiency (sp) that could be life threatening but was so rare (only 25 known cases in the US) that they needed to keep testing him, and now they wanted to test me too. With the last test he was normal... My test on the other hand showed that I, in fact, did have the protien deffiency. My BM was causing his test to come back probable. The Dr also said that him spitting it up and my supply being low could all have been signs that I was not ment to BF. Everything happens for a reason. Formula is expensive but I would pay any amount to keep my DS healthy, and for me that is with Formula.
Proud FF Momma!
Word!? I'll hit ya up
I'm sorry too if I offended anyone with my UO post today. I certainly don't want to make anyone feel bad.
I think one of the reasons that I take note when people on boards want to stop BFing after having normal problems at the beginning is because I feel like so many women WISH they only had the normal problems. Like a PP said, I think a lot of women who FF have a story about how much they put into making BFing work. It must be hard to feel that you have to defend yourself every time someone brings it up. I imagine it brings up all those feelings again, not to mention that it's just annoying to have to tell the same story over and over. I'll admit that I probably do take for granted that BFing has been relatively easy for me and I haven't considered very much how I would feel if I had to switch. And I'm glad for this thread because it's made me really think about it.
New Years eve morning we went to brunch at my aunt's house, and I saw my cousin who had an October baby as well. A couple of my relatives asked me if I was BFing...which caught me off guard a little. I wasn't expecting to have to answer that. I'm glad that I was able to give the easy answer that yes, I am. But what if I'd had to explain to relatives I'm not so close to about the problems I'd had BFing and the measures I'd taken to try to make it work? It would have been awkward and exhausting. So, lesson learned. I'm not mentioning BFing to any moms unless I know their situation.
And with that, I think I'm done talking about the "vs." issue altogether. We're all trying our best. Well, except jpeazy.
This thread is
With my first, I about died in the hospital. My milk never came in. I couldn't even try to get my son to latch until he was 21 days old. I pumped every 2 hours for 3 weeks...and NOTHING. So I gave up.
#2, I was hell bent on doing it. I read the books again, I was READY. Then he never latched properly even after 3 LCs and countless hours of trying. I pumped for a month and nursed when we could...then my supply dried up. Nothing in like 3 days time.
In the end they all end up drinking kool aid and eating potato chips.