Babies: 3 - 6 Months

If pedi told you to do this...WWYD?

DS is in the 98th percentile for his weight.  He does not STTN, and is up anywhere from 2-3 times to eat.  He also eats around the clock (I nurse on demand and it equals out to be about every two hours...sometimes sooner...sometimes later...but generally he eats about 10 times per day).  Pedi said that I should no longer feed him in the middle of the night.  Here's my dilemma...

When he wakes up in the middle of the night, I nurse him and he's asleep again within 10 minutes.  If I don't nurse him, he's up fussing and fighting and chewing his arm off like he's starving.  We do not use pacifiers.  WWYD?  Stop feeding him and let him cry?  Or keep feeding him?  Just wondering what others' thoughts are...

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Re: If pedi told you to do this...WWYD?

  • Will he not take a paci, or are you opposed to them? I only ask because that was my first thought and what I do when DS does this. And it works (for him at least).
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  • I think in the moment it's easier to just feed him and get him right back to sleep, but in the long run you'll be happier if you start to ween the night feedings.
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  • imageSFBayMrs:
    Will he not take a paci, or are you opposed to them? I only ask because that was my first thought and what I do when DS does this. And it works (for him at least).

    A little of both.  DS #1 had real bad nipple confusion, so I really didn't want to go that route with DS #2.  That being said...we tried the paci on three occasions with no luck at all.  DS will also not take a bottle.  While my breastfeeding supply is awesome...the "side effects" aren't so much.  :(

  • It sounds like he's using eating as comfort, which really isn't good for a number of reasons (and you may subconsciously be using it for your comfort as well). I would suggest getting him on a schedule (using his cues to form it of course), and start weening out the feedings at night. My niece used to eat for comfort, then when she got on a schedule she didn't anymore, and she was much happier.
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  • imagewaterlily2k2:
    It sounds like he's using eating as comfort, which really isn't good for a number of reasons (and you may subconsciously be using it for your comfort as well). I would suggest getting him on a schedule (using his cues to form it of course), and start weening out the feedings at night. My niece used to eat for comfort, then when she got on a schedule she didn't anymore, and she was much happier.

    No offense, but I disagree

    "Many moms feel guilty for nursing their baby to sleep. Nursing your baby to sleep is not a bad thing to do! It's very normal and developmentally appropriate for babies to nurse to sleep and to wake 1-3 times during the night for the first year or so. Some babies don't do this, but they are the exception, not the rule. Many children, if given the choice, prefer to nurse to sleep through the second year and beyond. Nursing is obviously designed to comfort baby and to help baby sleep, and I've never seen a convincing reason why mothers shouldn't use this wonderful "tool" that we've been given. "

    ~Kellymom

    I would check out this website: https://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/comfortnursing.html

    IMHO, I would keep feeding him... if he's hungry, he's hungry... I believe I also read somewhere else that it is not normal for babies to STTN until they are much older and it is really a common misconception that they should... If you don't mind waking up, I would keep at it... When DS is ready to STTN, he will...

    ETA: sorry for the last minute edit.... post went through before I meant it to

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  • Your situation sounds exactly like mine.  I agree it is just so easy to feed him and have him go back to sleep so that I can go back to sleep.  What I'm trying to do gradually shorten his night time feedings by 1 minute increments and feed him more during the day (although it sounds like you are feeding him as much as he wants during the day).  If I try to stop him when "time" is up and he's not ready I let him keep eating because he won't go back to bed any other way.  I'm hoping that eventually his stomach will get conditioned to the shorter feedings and eventually not need it at all.  I can relate exactly and its tough.

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  • I would feed him.  And honestly, I'd consider getting a new pedi.  That may sound dramatic, but the growth curve is a curve for a reason.  Some babies are small and some babies are big, most babies fall in the middle.


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  • I would say put up with the inconvenience of listening to him fuss right now and he will eventually learn to put himself back to sleep.  It will take a few nights, but he'll get the hang of it.  It doesn't seem to be an issue of really needing to feed if he's in the 98th %ile.  Stay strong if you do decide to do it otherwise the work that you had put in will be for nothing if you give in after a couple nights.  Good luck!
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  • I would start gradually with feeding every other time he wakes. I have no doubt he probably is hungry. Overnight is a long time for a lot of babies. I just think cold turkey on all the feedings might be too much to deal with.

    I have a good solid sleeper so when she wakes I know she's hungry and she will shriek like the world is ending at 2am if I don't feed her.

  • I have a tiny baby who STTN so I honestly don't think his size has anything to do with whether he needs to eat at night or not.  If he wasn't eating so often during the day I would try to up those and shorten the night feedings, but it sounds like he actually does need to eat at night.  Some babies just eat around the clock.  If it was me I would keep feeding him overnight for at least a while longer.  

    An anecdotal story:   One of my good friends has three children.  Her first two were above 90% in weight until 6 months, when her pedi told her she really should stop feeding them at night and make them sleep through.  At that point they both started drastically dropping on the growth curve.  Her daughter ended up around 20% by a year and her son dropped down to 1%.  At that point pedi told her to start feeding them a bottle at bedtime and encourage them to eat as much as she could get them to during the day to get them to start gaining weight.  With number three she ignored the advice and kept feeding her LO overnight.  He has consistently been at 90% and dropped the overnight feeding on his own at roughly a year.  He is also the healthiest of the bunch.  

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  • I think eating 10 times a day is a little too much and kind of agree with your pedi that you need to start eliminating some of them.  The night ones are the easiest to pick because you eventually want him to STTN (at some point) anyway, so I'd start with eliminating those first too. 

    however, if he only goes 2 hours between feedings, it's a lot to ask for him to go from eating 10 times a day, every 2 hours (and i'm assuming you get to go 3 hours at night) to eating 8 times a day, but having a really long stretch at night.  

    In general, I think I'd try to get him to eat more/longer during the day so that he's going ~3 hours between feedings and drop 1 night feeding first.  once he's good with that, then start trying to drop at least one more night feeding so that you're only getting up once.  

     

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  • The paci is my bff when it comes to dd at night. But if you don't use them then I would let him cry. Trust me on this one. DS still wakes up at night for a bottle some times (he doesn't get one) but if you can get your LO used to STTN now, then do it. GL!!!
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  • Check out kellymom and 4 month sleep regression. It is totally normal for them to eat at night because typically, during the day, they are too interested in their surroundings to get a solid meal in. My almost four month old went through a phase where she woke up several times a night and each time she ate A TON. I let her eat when she wants, regardless of what the pedi says. She is not using me for comfort, she is really hungry.

    https://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html

    Around five months I will start sleep training, but right now, there are so many developmental things going on, I want to give her all the nourishment I can. 

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  • I would never let a 4 month old CIO. I would just continue feeding him when he wakes at night to eat. And I wouldn't let my dr. make me feel like I needed to change my nursing habits, unless I was the one looking for a change. If so, after 6 months old, I might consider trying to gradually stretch out the time between feedings at night. Ferber actually has a chapter on this in his book - the idea is that you try to go 15 minutes longer each night, so if LO usually eats at 1 and 4, the first night you'd try to soothe him just by rocking, etc until feeding him at 1:15 and 4:15. Then the next night you'd do 1:30 and 4:30. Eventually the second feeding moves into the morning and presto, one night feeding gone! FWIW, we nurse on demand and DD was 95% for both height and weight at her 4 month checkup. I changed nothing about how we fed her or how she slept - I kept waking up 2, 3, sometimes 4 times a night and nursing her back to sleep. She started rolling over, then sitting up and now is crawling, and with all that activity, at her 6 mo appt. she was down to the 80th% for weight... BF babies grow super fast the first 4-6 months, then start to "slow down" in comparison to FF babies.
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  • imagedairygirl19:

    I would start gradually with feeding every other time he wakes. I have no doubt he probably is hungry. Overnight is a long time for a lot of babies. I just think cold turkey on all the feedings might be too much to deal with.

    I have a good solid sleeper so when she wakes I know she's hungry and she will shriek like the world is ending at 2am if I don't feed her.

    I have a world is ending screamer too.  It is a very distinct cry. I truly believe he does think the world is going to end.  LOL!   

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  • As far as I'm concerned, if my kid is hungry, I'm going to feed him.
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  • imageAsOctoberFalls:
    As far as I'm concerned, if my kid is hungry, I'm going to feed him.

    Agreed.  I think you should go with your intuition on this, not a doctor's advice.  IMO If a baby is showing all signs of being hungry, he needs to eat.  I EBF and my almost 6 month old still is waking up to eat at night.  I'd focus more on the daytime feedings to see what you can do to wean those down a bit. 

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  • imageMrs.Purdue:

    I think eating 10 times a day is a little too much and kind of agree with your pedi that you need to start eliminating some of them.  The night ones are the easiest to pick because you eventually want him to STTN (at some point) anyway, so I'd start with eliminating those first too. 

    however, if he only goes 2 hours between feedings, it's a lot to ask for him to go from eating 10 times a day, every 2 hours (and i'm assuming you get to go 3 hours at night) to eating 8 times a day, but having a really long stretch at night.  

    In general, I think I'd try to get him to eat more/longer during the day so that he's going ~3 hours between feedings and drop 1 night feeding first.  once he's good with that, then start trying to drop at least one more night feeding so that you're only getting up once.  

     

    This exactly. 10 feedings a day is a lot!

    My DD will be 4 months this week and she is on the smaller side. She is only eating 4-5 times a day currently.

    She has been eating every 3-4 hours since she was 2 weeks old.

    At his age, he should definitely be able to go a bit longer between feedings.

    GL!

     

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  • At 4 months, I would feed him when he's hungry and find a new pedi. 
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  • It is normal for breastfed babies to still need to eat through the night, as referenced by the kellymom site. I would caution you on cutting out the night feedings--if he's truly hungry he needs them. 

    My older sister tried getting her LO to STTN for a month and a half..it was a huge struggle and he eventually stopped waking up to eat after a month and a half of her not feeding him the 2-3 times he would wake up at night. Sounds good, but at his 4 month checkup he had not gained ANY weight from 2 to 4 months. He was almost diagnosed with failure to thrive. She still feels extremely guilty about it and now lets him eat whenever he wakes up at night--he has a lot of catching up to do now. 

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  • Is your pedi implying that you need to put a 4 month old baby on a diet?!?! That's ludicrous!! If he weren't hungry, he would suck a few times then go back to sleep. If he's eating for 10 minutes, then he's hungry.
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  • imageAsOctoberFalls:
    As far as I'm concerned, if my kid is hungry, I'm going to feed him.
    This! My LO doesn't sttn yet, he wakes every 2 1/2 hours to eat. Which I have no problem with. He hates the pacifier, so that's not an option. When he's ready he will sttn. Until then, I love the 2 am getting up to change a diaper and smile and giggle and nurse back to sleep. you have to do what works for you! As far as your pedi, I'd go with your gut feeling. If you don't like your doctor get a new one!

  • imageSean+Lyss:
    The paci is my bff when it comes to dd at night. But if you don't use them then I would let him cry. Trust me on this one. DS still wakes up at night for a bottle some times (he doesn't get one) but if you can get your LO used to STTN now, then do it. GL!!!

    I disagree and think that he's way too young to cry. I also think if he wakes up and is hungry you should feed him. If he's soothed back to sleep by other means, then it sounds like he's not hungry and obviously then doesn't need to eat.

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  • image11kacey:

    Check out kellymom and 4 month sleep regression.

    https://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html

    I normally like Kellymom, but this article says, "Why don't bottle feeding babies wake up as much at 4 months? Because by this time, mom has often handed the bottle off to baby to feed himself...".  

    Seriously?!  Ugh.

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  • My pedi told me that at LO's 2 month check up and I found a new pedi.

    Seriously, nursing on cue is wonderful. Don't let him cry! If night feedings are becoming an issue (to YOU and your family, not to some stupid doctor), then I might start trying other comfort measures before nursing. Sounds like, right now, that's not working.

    My LO eats around the clock still (she is also a big baby, gotta love them!). At night, I let her try to settle herself before offering the breast. She has very clear cues to when she wants to nurse, whether for food or comfort, so I respond to them. She's getting better at settling herself and cutting back on night nursing all on her own, just because I give her that chance. I do NOT let her get upset.

    I think you're doing just the right thing! You know what your baby needs. Don't let this person shake your confidence. If you don't have a problem nursing your baby at night, then you just snuggle up and nurse him. You're doing great!

     

  • DS is 21 pounds at 4 months.  He also wakes up twice to eat.  He screws around during the day and doesn't focus enough to really finish a feeding.  He's only 4 months old - I say keep nursing him. 
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  • imageMrs.Purdue:

    I think eating 10 times a day is a little too much and kind of agree with your pedi that you need to start eliminating some of them.  The night ones are the easiest to pick because you eventually want him to STTN (at some point) anyway, so I'd start with eliminating those first too. 

    however, if he only goes 2 hours between feedings, it's a lot to ask for him to go from eating 10 times a day, every 2 hours (and i'm assuming you get to go 3 hours at night) to eating 8 times a day, but having a really long stretch at night.  

    In general, I think I'd try to get him to eat more/longer during the day so that he's going ~3 hours between feedings and drop 1 night feeding first.  once he's good with that, then start trying to drop at least one more night feeding so that you're only getting up once.  

     

     

    I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. My LO still eats 10ish times a day. It's a bf'd vs. formula fed thing. If I feed my LO anymore but less times she spits it all back up and ends up super crabby. I'm not sure at 4 mos. her LO should be waking up that many times, but 10xs a day is NBD to me.

  • My DS was in the 98th percentile at his 2 month checkup and my pedi told me to wean him from 1 or 2 of his night feedings and I did not listen to her because I felt that he was indeed hungry as he was eating vs soothing by sucking.  For the first 3 months (after putting him to bed at 9p) he would wake at midnight, 2a, 4a and 6a to breastfeed but he dropped the midnight feeding at around 3 months old.  2 weeks ago he dropped the 2a feeding on his own and at his 4 month checkup he was in the 94th percentile.  Even though he went down she still told me to drop the 4am feeding but for me I feel like I will let him drop the 4am feeding on his own time and not based on what the pedi is telling me.

    I also take into consideration that he was born at 9 pounds and that you cannot overfeed a breastfed baby.  I take the pedi's advice often but I also am his mom who is there with him much more than the pedi is so I weigh her advice with my observations.  The pedi also told me she would rather me wait until 6 months to feed him solids bc she thinks he'll gain more weight, I'm ok with that bc I am in no rush to start solids but it annoys me that she is so focused with his weight since he is a baby that is still inactive.

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  • I just finished reading Good Night, Sleep Tight by the Sleep Lady. It's a very highly rec'ed book about getting kids to sleep through the night. It sounds to me like he's using nursing more as a comfort to get back to sleep, rather than being hungry (due to the fact that he falls asleep in 10 minutes, so he couldn't have been that hungry in the first place). The fact that he's "chewing his arm off" does not necessarily mean he's hungry, as babies chew on their hands to comfort themselves if they don't have pacis or other things to suck on.

    The Sleep Lady advocates never using nursing as a way to put your kid to sleep, as he will never learn to comfort himself and get himself back to sleep without you needing to help him. We have been using this with our daughter (3.5 months old now), and she is getting great at sleeping through the night. We use a paci to comfort her if she needs it before falling asleep. She is now to the point of sleeping 8-10 hour stretches, and puts herself back to sleep if she wakes up.

    I have also read the No-Cry Sleep Solution (another highly rec'ed book) and they have a similar philosophy as the Sleep Lady. Never use nursing to put to sleep, but rather feed on awakening when they will be up for awhile. Can you try and introduce a paci and stay by his crib patting, shushing, and holding until he falls asleep? He needs to learn how to comfort himself and put himself back to sleep, and if you continually nurse, you are contributing to his "habit" (for lack of a better word.)

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  • as someone who feeds on demand i would feed when he wakes I sometimes just rub my little guys back to see if he will fall back to sleep but he usually always wants a feed they will sleep longer in time my guy is often on a two times wake up
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  • So because DS is in (and has always be in) the 99th percentile I'm supposed to ignore his need for food? That's ridiculous. FWIW, he's almost 6 months and eats 30 oz a day on a GOOD day. Now tell me he needs a diet... That's ridiculous. We're just now starting to get some of his bottles up to 6 oz, usually he can only eat 4 at a time. Not all babies are the same and they shouldn't all be treated the same. 
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  • Another question- is your doc using the cdc growth chart (based on FF babies) or the WHO growth chart (based on BF'ed babies)?

    My 2 cents: if your kid is hungry, feed him. I hate the scare tactics used by some of the "sleep experts" saying that nursing to sleep is detrimental and your child will never learn to soothe themselves. That is simply untrue. DD is capable of putting herself back to sleep, but for the 1-2 feedings at night, she is hungry! So I feed her. When she wakes in between sleep cycles, she goes right back to sleep on her own. She wants nothing to do with pacis either. Nursing to sleep is a natural, easy, and comforting way to put your baby to sleep. No need to change that unless it isn't working for you.

    And to the PP that said if he nurses for only 10mins that means he's not really hungry, my DD can completely drain a boob in 5mins flat.

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  • I would continue feeding him overnight.  LO still wakes usu twice a night to eat and eats heartily so I know it is out of hunger.  His first stretch is 6-7 hrs though.  I'm not sure I can expect him to go 10 hrs at this age. We do try to use a paci first before feeding him but this only delays him for ~1hr and then he is up again and I usu feed then.  You could try a paci first and see how he does.  It only takes us 1-2min to give the paci and get back to bed.

    Are you sure he's getting a full feeding during the day?  10 feedings sounds like a lot to me and perhaps he isn't getting enough in.  My LO is very distractible at the moment and it is a challenge to get him to stay on the boob. 

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  • imagemrsfriend:

    DS is in the 98th percentile for his weight.  He does not STTN, and is up anywhere from 2-3 times to eat.  He also eats around the clock (I nurse on demand and it equals out to be about every two hours...sometimes sooner...sometimes later...but generally he eats about 10 times per day).  Pedi said that I should no longer feed him in the middle of the night.  Here's my dilemma...

    When he wakes up in the middle of the night, I nurse him and he's asleep again within 10 minutes.  If I don't nurse him, he's up fussing and fighting and chewing his arm off like he's starving.  We do not use pacifiers.  WWYD?  Stop feeding him and let him cry?  Or keep feeding him?  Just wondering what others' thoughts are...

    First, nice name choice Wink

    My Braeden is in the 99th percentile and he gets 6 bottles during the day (5-6oz) and one around 3-4 am (4 oz).

    I do agree with PP's that if your baby is hungry, feed him! Every baby is different and I don't think 10 times is a lot for someone who is BFing. Maybe you could try to wean one of the night feedings for now, but continue with the others. When DS wakes in the middle of the night I give him a couple minutes, then try paci, then try rocking, then feeding is last. Maybe you can do the same, minus the paci of course since you do not use them. Whatever you decide to do, I would not leave him to cry.

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  • Does he nap well in the day? If he's eating every 2 hours or less, it sounds like he doesn't have long naps?

    How long is he awake before you put him down for a nap?

    ETA: Also, I didn't read the other comments, but do you use a paci? When DD was little and woke in the night, I have her a paci first and it worked most of the time.

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  • At today's appointment my pedi told me the same thing, and my DD is right smack dab in the middle of those growth curves.

    I started to try to explain to her that she used to sleep 5 hours at the beginning of the night, then 3 hours each time after that. And that the waking up after 2.5 is just a recent thing (the past couple of days). I also told her that I've tried allowing her to fuss a little to see if she'll soothe herself to sleep, and I've also tried helping her back to sleep by soothing her and it won't work. She'll get more and more worked up until she's screaming bloody murder. And still the pedi said to let her cry because she's old enough to figure out how to soothe herself. I completely disagree with the doctor. I know my baby best, I know how she acts throughout the day and night and what is normal for her. I'm not taking her advice.

    This conversation along with a couple others we had today have me seriously reconsidering who will be my DD's pediatrician. Unfortunately I live in a very rural area and my choices are limited, but if I don't get a better vibe from her by the next appointment I'll be interviewing new pediatricians. In the meantime, even though I'm a FTM, I'm very confident in my decisions, my research, and my support network, and feel comfortable not following the pedi's UNSOLICITED advice in this case.

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  • DD also does not take a pacifier at all, although we have tried to give her one. Around 4 months old, she started waking in the middle of the night for food (or so we thought). And then around 5 months old, her daytime naps decreased a lot and her sleeping overnight increased immediately. Now I think she was just not tired enough overnight to stay asleep. Nowadays she sleeps less during the day and we get 10 hours straight overnight... mommy is very happy!

    Sometimes eating will soothe them back to sleep, but they may not necessarily be hungry. At least that was the situation in our case. Good luck figuring it all out!

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  • J is in the 99th percentile across the board and I asked the same question at his 4 month appt. My pedi said to feed him. He's a big dude and it takes a lot of calories to keep his little engine running. If he's still doing it at 6 months we'll make a plan. I would never let him CIO at this age.

    I can't imagine my guy taking only BM....maybe you should introduce something heavier? Sounds like he migtht be ready.

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  • imageAsOctoberFalls:
    As far as I'm concerned, if my kid is hungry, I'm going to feed him.

     

    this. I don't care if my doc thinks otherwise! Baby's gotta eat when a baby's gotta eat! 

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