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Pre-School and Daycare
Aimathy
member
Question about "red-shirting"
Aimathy
member
I know this topic has been discussed on this board a few times, but I was hoping that a few of you could give me some advice. I'm hearing alot about families "red-shirting" their children for Kindergarten. From what I've heard, most families do it for an academic or maturity advantage, though I've read some articles that a few sports minded families have done it so their kids can be the oldest in their age division (yikes).
My daughter is born in July (8th) and our school system's cut off is October 1st. I really never thought much about red-shirting her. She does very well socially for her age and although she is just starting preschool this year, I think she does well academically as well. So really, I don't have huge fears about her being "behind". (I know she's also not a late Aug or Sept baby that is even closer to the cut off.) My fear though, is that if MANY families DO red-shirt, then she WILL be a "baby" compared to most of them. Back in the day, most parents that waited only did so if they thought their child would struggle academically or maturity wise...now, if they're doing it so their kid is actually "ahead"....well, it throws off the balance. KWIM? She would then be a newly 5 year old in a kindergarten class with many almost 6 year olds, which can be a huge difference. I guess I'm just seeking opinions or advice on the topic, or to hear stories of what you did (or plan to do) for your own child, if they are in this situation. Thanks!!!
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Re: Question about "red-shirting"
I think it's really hard when your DC's bday is about 3 mos from the cut off. DS's bday is 3.5 mos from the cut off ... he was not the youngest and there were no kids who were over 12 mos older than him in the same class. His bday was w/in 6 mos of a majority of the class, one way or the other. He did fine academically and socially. Since he wasn't the youngest, there were still some kids that were engaging in parallel play at the beginning of the year and the teacher was ok with that. i will say that the kids that had the largest social advantage had older siblings, which is something you can never change for your first or only.
but, I would pay attention to what the norm is in your district and the curriculum at your school. If it seems more geared for 1st graders/6 y/o's, I might consider holding back. If it seems like traditionally KG curriculum, with a good amount of focus on social growth, I'd give it a shot. You can repeat KG and many kids do without any negative consequences.
DS1 will be 5 this Saturday and is currently going to prek-4's. Next year will be Kindergarden and he'll be 6. The only reason why is because his birthday is Sept. 3rd, and the cut off is Sept.1st. That's the only reason. He's more then ready for Kinder but it's where his birthday falls.
DS2, on the other hand, turned 3 in July and could've gone to prek-3's this year, but he is not ready. His vocabulary still has to develop more, and he's not potty trained yet. So, next year he'll go to prek-4's, while big brother is in Kindergarden.
i used to teach K and i'm against red shirting unless there is a REAL need - which is rare.... i'm talking a child (usually a boy) who is VERY behind socially... and again, it's rare that a child is THAT far behind that I would recommend it.
My twins were born June 15th and the cut off is Sept 1st - so they will be on the younger side, and they are boys which usually = less mature - and i have ZERO plans to red shirt them. I simply don't believe in it.
I think it's sad when parents feel pressure to do it simply b/c they know lots of others are doing it. Especially when those parents struggle to pay for daycare, and are looking forward to kindergarten to ease some of that cost... it puts those with $ at an "advantage" in some ways.... though some studies have said it all evens out eventually.
I agree with a lot of what Goldie is saying. I worked with kindergarten classrooms 1/2 time for 3 years and I rarely saw kids who couldn't adjust to kindergarten. The ones who could have used another year "home" were pretty obvious and in our district, home was not a better option for them.
I get kind of fired up when people say that all kids should wait a year because, I, too, worry that my son will be EVEN younger when all of the other borderline kids are waiting a year. I fully plan to send my son at 4 (turns 5 end of Oct). He is academically ready for k now, has 2 years of preschool coming up to work on the social, and to be perfectly honest, I don't think daycare is a better option for him to "develop" as he won't qualify for any preschools and I have to go back to work. The only thing that would change my mind (at this point) is if his food allergies get worse and he can't manage at school (or I can't deal).
Anyway, I digress. Basically, it seems to be more common in certain areas and we definitely have district out here where it is all about the advantages in the long term.
DD's birthday is mid-August, so she'll turn 5 right before she enters Kindergarten.
Redshirting isn't all that common here. For this I'm thankful.
It's one thing if a kid is truly delayed, it's another when it's done for academic and athletic advantage, IMHO.
I have had the same concerns about DD. Her birthday is Sept. 26 and the cutoff is Sept 30. I feel like she will be ready for K when she is 4(almost 5) but I am not sure how I feel about my 4 yr old in a K class with kids are 6 or close to 6.5yr. That is a large age gap at that age IMO. We will wait and make the decision when the time comes.
Redshirting bothers me for a lot of reasons and I think some parents are abusing it. It seems to me that more parents are redshirting than are not. A mom in my old playgroup help her son out of K this year and he turned 5 in April. He will be 6y4m when he starts K which I think it a little ridiculous. She was not ready for him to go to K and her DH was on board for athletic reasons. DH's co-worker's DS turned 5 in May and he is waiting another year before starting K also because his mom feels like all day K is too much for a 5yr old. Where do we draw the line of who can wait and who has to go??
I think you can't just see a few posts here and worry about everyone doing it. We are going to b/c our kids SHOULD have been born in late October and instead were born 2 days before our state's cut off (Sep 1). If it were only my girl involved I don't know if I would red-shirt. I just get the feeling this will be a good thing for her twin and so that we are leaning towards it.
If I were in your shoes I would probably ask for district stats. It will give you a better idea of what age her peers will be (in our state head start is really common so the entering age is higher than the neighboring state where pre-k's are expensive and there is less government help). Also I would consult with your child's pre-k teachers. A lot of our final decision for the twins will be based on how our pre-school teacher feels they are doing and how they will possibly transition into that high pressure environment.
Seriously, it's Kindergarten!!!! It's not even required in my state. I think it's sad that we live in a society that is so consumed with "achieving" that kids can not be kids. I think it's ridiculous that parents think their child will be ahead in school if you hold them back???? I can see if you have a child that is extremely behind in several areas that it would be better to wait a year to send them, but I also think parents underestimate how well kids adapt and how quick they learn at this age. I taught prek for several years and in my experience by the end of the year almost all of the kiddos were more than ready for Kindergarten.
There is no way we can possibly guarantee our children a successful experience all the time - that is life. There will always be someone smarter, faster, prettier, etc. It's more important to teach our kids how to cope with adversity rather than let them sit out of life until they can be the smartest or most athletic. And just fyi to all the parents holding their kid back for athletic reasons, a lot of school districts have imposed age limits on competing at the high school level. So while they may be older, bigger, stronger than the other kids in Jr. High they may have to sit their senior year out because they are too old.
And another thing - I think kids should be 5 by the first day of school. I don't agree with October cut off dates.
::stepping off my soapbox::
Many people that hold their kids back are not just thinking about kindergarten, they are thinking way down the road to middle school and HS and even college. Unless you have a child that is struggling in some manner, you have no clue what it is like. I totally agree with you on not holding kids back just because of sports but if a child is really having a hard time socially - it will effect everything. A child that is not anywhere close to their peers socially will have a hard time adjusting. The PreK that my DD goes to now (and the younger will go to) spends just as much if not more time on the social side of things than the education as at that youjng age, it has a huge effect on how kids do and yes, the 1st impression in school which for many kids is kindergarten can effect a lot later in life.
I agree with you here as well. I grew up in MI which has a Dec 1st cut off so some of the kids are 4 1/2 when they start and 17 1/2 when they go off to college. Way to young in my mind. I really do agree with the Aug or Sept 1 cut offs so they go along with the school year. I still disagree with you on the overall topic of holding kids back for academic or social reasons as I do feel that kids can benefit from an extra year in a structured preK, preschool or daycare setting and that extra can be a huge gift to some kids. For sports - never. I have a friend who is in CA whose son has a lot of behaviroal issues (diagnosed with ODD) and he is an Oct birthday with a Dec 1 cut off. She wanted to hold him back due to his behaviro issues but the PreK he was in last year was not able to take him again due to the way the grant of the program is written so she really didn't have a choice and he started kindy a few weeks ago and he is really struggling and she may end up having to pull him out or having him repeat kindy. He is just not able to handle it.
I agree with holding your child back if they are struggling as I stated in my original response. I do not agree holding them back because you want them to be the smartest, oldest, or most athletic in their class. I am sorry if that wasn't clear. I do think that there are parents that think their child is behind socially so they hold them back and do not give them a chance. For a lot of kids prek and kindergarten are the first structured and social experiences, so parents should expect some transition. I am not talking about diagnosed behavior/social issues.
Totally agree.
We redshirted our oldest dd. Her b-day was 2 weeks from the cutoff. There was only one other kid in her class that had been redshirted and I think that may have been a special situation and not intentional or for an advantage of any kind.
My younger dd is also a summer b-day but at this time (she's 4) we're planning to send her on time. I think it just depends on the child and I wouldn't worry too much about what other people are doing. I don't think redshirting is as popular as it seems on here.
We redshirted because my dd has a genetic disorder that can cause learning disablities. She's also extremely small for her age and just needed that extra year. (I don't think holding back just for size is a good idea, but it was another factor in our decision.)
This is us also. DD is 8/22 and the cut off is 9/1. Redshirting is not popular here HOWEVER, there are girls that are 355 days older than my DD. Her BFF is 9/2 and turning 7. I do see some difference between my 6 year old and those that are almost 7. It could just be personality but they seem to be getting into the older girl stuff- Hannah Montana, Justin Bieber, Big time rust, etc. It's not a big deal but it is happening. Mine is in 1st grade. And she has done excellent in KG and 1st- highest reading group!
DS1 is after the cut off (9/21) and I am happy for that also.
This is a personal choice and only you know your child best so do not follow others or worry about what they are doing. I did "red-shirt" my oldest as he is starting kindy this fall at 5 and will be 6 in Nov. As of now, I am so happy I did. I really didn't do it for now. I did for later on. I knew that even if I sent him last year that he would have did perfectly fine both academically and socially. I still believe that now. Howeve, I feel he has matured more and has more self-confidence. He is only 9 days from the cut-off so I felt with what I said above and him being a boy made my decision. I have many teachers in my family and teacher friends and they pretty much all said that Kindy was not the issue but it was the latter grades that can put them behind. Who knows what the future holds but right now, I'm happy in my decison. My other little one who is 3 is a Summer baby so I plan to send him on time, however, right now he is delayed so who knows but I have time to think about that. Good luck.
I agonized over this decision and decided to red shirt my oldest.
I'm sorry that the decision other parents are making for their kids causes concern for you in regards to how the over all mix in the class room effects your daughter but ultimately we all have to do what we think is right for our individual children.
In our case when we went to the kindy open house in the spring (April) every single one of the 15 kids in that class room was already 5 and several of them were already loosing teeth. My child was obviously VERY young compared to them. When the teacher asked them to introduce themselves every single one of them said they were 5 years old and my child still wouldn't turn 5 for another 3 months.
If you have concerns I suggest talking directly with the K teachers to get a feel for the reality of the class room. They see first hand how many are much older (red shirted), how many are much younger (not red shirted) and how many fall in the middle.
Ours was a huge swing vote in the direction of red shirting for us. As a mother she red shirted her own son not because of the challenges of K or any of that other random stuff about size or sports but because she felt it would help him have the greatest chance of not needing to be held back around 2nd grade and being able to make good decisions as an adolescent.
She also referenced the boy factor. I think it's more common to red shirt boys than girls so some of your fears/concerns about her female peer group may be unfounded.
In asking around I found a staggering number of late summer birthday kids who ended up being held back in 1st or 2nd grade when they started K at late 4 or early 5. I'd much rather hold mine back now than have him deal with the humiliation of "failing" a grade and loosing a group of friends he'd been with for 2-3 years. That's the kind of thing that some kids don't recover well from.
When we made the decision it was not lightly. If it had been our younger one I would have sent him without a second thought - just a totally different personality and one that would have handled being the youngest much better.
And as others have said our decision had little to do with how he would fare in kindy but much more so with how he would fare long term in elementary and more so middle school.
And it had NOTHING to do with how he'll stack up to his peers. I could care less if he's an outstanding academic or athlete (he's not athletic at all). It's about HIM and how he's going to handle his course load and how it will shape his attitude towards school and learning.
It's not a ploy to give him an advantage over other children, it's about giving him the chance to have a positive and appropriate academic and social experience.
Total score: 6 pregnancies, 5 losses, 2 amazing blessings that I'm thankful for every single day.
Very well said.
I think it's a tough decision for most parents. I cannot imagine holding a kid back for the sports aspect of things. but as far as academics... it's not an easy decision. we're debating it for ds. his bday is a couple of weeks before the sept 30th/oct 1st cutoff. he's in prek this year. we repeated prek 3. even in prek 3 he was much "younger" than his classmates. his teacher thought he may benefit from the extra year of preschool, so when we moved, we opted to put him in prek3 again. curriculum here is more of a kindie curriculum, in nyc it was tougher. my prek4 dd was getting homework at night.... she was fine with it. does great academically, but is shy. shyness she has to deal with . she's 5 1/2. I'm not going to hold back a jan baby b/c she's shy. she'll be shy every start to every year. my son doesn't have the attention span and listening skills my dd did at his age. we're not firm on holding him back (he could start kindie next year)... I don't know how he'll develop over the next year. but I'm not tossing the option out yet. my dh was a late aug bday. started school at age 4 and had a rough time socially... now he has a phd from an Ivy... he did fine older... but he had a lot of anxiety as a young kid and it has stuck with him. he's pretty adamant about giving ds that extra year to mature.
my mom and I had this discussion. she is of the mindset that kids adapt. then I asked her if my niece would be ready now to go (she turns 5 the day after ds turns 4 this month... but her cutoff is sept 1st)... no... no way is she ready. so then why would you think my son, who would turn five in the same month would be any more ready? oh. it's very child specific. I agree , talk to the teachers in your school district. talk to the preschool teacher (if dc has one). find out the curriculum and don't worry about the other kids. there are always oldest and youngest. but age alone isn't the issue. kids development and maturity is. and a young almost 5 y/o is much different than another mature almost 5 y/o. you don't want a kid who will be disruptive to the class b/c he cannot sit still either.
My bday was one day before the cut off. I was very small (I'm not even 5ft tall as an adult), I was behind in kindergarden and 1st grd. I graduated in the top 10% of my class.
Ds1 bday is about a month before cut off. He was behind a little until about mid 1st grade. Socially he was a little immature. We had to really work with him most of 1st grd. He caught up though. He is in 11th grade and has a 4.0 gpa and is very well adjusted socially.
I think as most posters agree if there is major issue it's one thing. But just so your kid is ahead is another. I also think a lot of it is coddling. Your childrenl may have some issues adjusting at first. But life is an adjustment.
edit to clarify
My dss was red shirted by the ex so he'd be the biggest in his class for sports (sigh). My dh regrets it because for a lot of his elementary years, my dss was bored. It's also a bit tiresome to always have to explain that dss is a grade behind.
Ds has a similar birthday (Oct 26), so unless they change the cutoff to Sep. 1, I plan on sending ds to school on time. Unless he's way behind, which I can't see at this point, I don't see the need to hold him back.
I was thinking this same thing. My brother had a July birthday, and it was tough for him to be able to play sports as a freshman in high school when he had newly turned 14, and a lot of other kids were 15 or even close to 16. After not making the freshman team, he was pretty defeated when going to try out again for JV or Varsity teams.
I am not sure why people think that taking athletics into consideration is "crazy" or "yikes!" Athletics were a huge part of my high school and college experience.
This! My birthday is Aug. 3 so I started kindergarten right after turning 5. I was a very social kid and I didn't have any learning disabilities/issues. The 1st couple of years I was fine. When I reached the 2nd grade, I started struggling and only barely passed. The teacher recommended to my parents that they hold me back a year but I begged them not to because by that point I had made a lot of friends and I did not want to be held back. As the years went on, I continued to struggle in school. No matter how hard I tried, it was never good enough. In high school, I failed Freshman english so I had to take it as an elective during my sophomore year to make it up and it was so much easier. The stuff that I had so much difficulty with the year before suddenly made sense to me and "clicked". I barely passed high school.
My DS will turn 5 August 17th and the cutoff is August 31st in our state. He also does have some developmental delays which have improved greatly in the last year but at this point we are leaning torward holding him back a year. I don't want him to have to struggle as much as I did.