People who ruin it for the rest of us.... — The Bump
Natural Birth

People who ruin it for the rest of us....

My sister shared this from her FB feed....

?5 weeks until my due date. Hope all goes well since I'm planning a home birth and now I have no midwife. A little nervous but I think I'll be fine. Pray for me ya'll. Hoping to have a smooth and speedier recovery than my first one.

Yes she is planning a homebirth without a MW or any professional.  Just her and her husband.  This is precisely why people think women who are having homebirths are crazy.

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Re: People who ruin it for the rest of us....

  • Oy. Not something I would do. How comfortable is her husband with this? Mine would never get behind that.
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  • That's crazy, and you're exactly right - she IS making a difficult battle even harder for the rest of us.

    Hopefully someone will call her on it?  I mean - the knowledge of a trained midwife cannot be replaced by "prayers" - and this mommy-to-be probably doesn't even know how to resuscitate a baby if need be...

     I understand your frustration, totally.

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  • I don't know her really, but it sounds like her husband is at least "ok" with it.  There were a lot of people who made posts about how she should think it through.  Lucky for me she has a completely public profile and I was able to post this: 

    I'm sorry to butt in, but I am having a home birth with a MW, so i understand completely what you want from your birth. However having an unassisted birth is not the way to do it. When it comes down to active bleeding cayenne capsules aren't going to cut it. true a HB MW will not have all the equipment a hospital offers, but she CAN give pitocin for Posppartum hemmorhage, she CAN start an IV for fluids, she will have oxygen. How are you going to monitor your baby's heartbeat incase of distress during labor? Do you have proper equipment for that? Do you know the signs of a prolapsed cord? What are your plans for shoulder dystocia? The MW is not just there to deliver, she is their to monitor for complications before and after delivery. Yes, a hospital may only be 5 minutes away, but who is going to be the one managing everything during that chaotic period? Our closest hospital is literally two blocks away. I'm an RN but still wouldn't consider myself remotely adequately prepared to deal with neonatal distress. If the issue is financial talk to your MW about setting up a payment plan. I know most MW are more than willing to work with parents. Honestly if it came down to not being able to afford our HB I would much rather have the baby in a hospital than have an unassisted birth at home. I hope you don't take this as offensive, but you really need to think about what you are doing and the safety of your child.

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  • That was an excellent response.  I hope she listens. 
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  • What on earth is she trying to prove? 

    Dumb.

    ETA: why would you post that on her public profile?  To embarrass her?  More likely she will dig her heels in being called out like that in public.  I'd remove it and send it as a private message.

    promised myself I'd retire when I turned gold, and yet here I am
  • and any following posts she makes are basically how she expects negativity since homebirth in the united states isn't popular but how it's common in other countries.  Totally ignoring the fact that she is talking about an unassisted birth....didn't respond to ANY of my points or any points pp mentioned about setting up a payment plan with a MW...what a moron
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  • imagelaurasuzanne2006:

    I don't know her really, but it sounds like her husband is at least "ok" with it.  There were a lot of people who made posts about how she should think it through.  Lucky for me she has a completely public profile and I was able to post this: 

    I'm sorry to butt in, but I am having a home birth with a MW, so i understand completely what you want from your birth. However having an unassisted birth is not the way to do it. When it comes down to active bleeding cayenne capsules aren't going to cut it. true a HB MW will not have all the equipment a hospital offers, but she CAN give pitocin for Posppartum hemmorhage, she CAN start an IV for fluids, she will have oxygen. How are you going to monitor your baby's heartbeat incase of distress during labor? Do you have proper equipment for that? Do you know the signs of a prolapsed cord? What are your plans for shoulder dystocia? The MW is not just there to deliver, she is their to monitor for complications before and after delivery. Yes, a hospital may only be 5 minutes away, but who is going to be the one managing everything during that chaotic period? Our closest hospital is literally two blocks away. I'm an RN but still wouldn't consider myself remotely adequately prepared to deal with neonatal distress. If the issue is financial talk to your MW about setting up a payment plan. I know most MW are more than willing to work with parents. Honestly if it came down to not being able to afford our HB I would much rather have the baby in a hospital than have an unassisted birth at home. I hope you don't take this as offensive, but you really need to think about what you are doing and the safety of your child.

    I can't believe you posted this on someone's FB page.  How would you feel if someone did this to you about your choice to have a home birth?  What is it to you if she is having a UC?  You don't even know her, correct?

    I had a HB and I don't think people who have a UC are ruining it for the rest of us. It's not a choice I would make but it is their right to have one.

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  • ^^^ I have to disagree with:

    people who have a UC are ruining it for the rest of us. It's not a choice I would make but it is their right to have one

    There is just no justifiable reason to make a decision with forethought to have an unassisted childbirth save for some grand ego of the mother to be.  None.

    And it does, like it or not, lump all homebirthers into this fringe group of (adjective here) women.

    But I totally agree that calling her out publicly is a bad move, as I already stated.

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  • i get what you are saying, it may have been better to send a PM.  At the same time why would she publically post that she was doing that.  And not that it makes it more justifiable but there were many people before me that made comments on her public post.  At the same time i did feel it was important to point out that this isn't what it means to have a homebirth.  And honestly i don't feel she has a "right" to risk the safety of her child.  Frankly I don't know all the laws in this regard but if something were to happen to her child I have a hard time believing she would have no legal ramifications for planning a birth with no medical attention whatsoever.
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  • imageridesbuttons:

    ^^^ I have to disagree with:

    people who have a UC are ruining it for the rest of us. It's not a choice I would make but it is their right to have one

    There is just no justifiable reason to make a decision with forethought to have an unassisted childbirth save for some grand ego of the mother to be.  None.

    And it does, like it or not, lump all homebirthers into this fringe group of (adjective here) women.

    But I totally agree that calling her out publicly is a bad move, as I already stated.

    You disagree with what?  That it's a woman's right to have a UC?  Well it is.  A woman has the legal right in the US to have an unassisted birth and I wouldn't have it any other way. 

    Saying a UC is all about ego is just as bad as the people who say that a home birth or a VBAC or a natural birth is all about ego.  It's a ridiculous oversimplification of the choices women make and why they make them.  

    If you believe in a woman's autonomy and that she should have the right to birth where she wants and with whom she wants, shouldn't that logically extend to her right to an unassisted birth?  Or do we only believe in that when we happen to agree with the woman's choice?

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  • Legal or not (and I don't even know if it is, frankly) having an unassisted childbirth serves no purpose at all.  It is at least 2 human lives at stake.  What is it if not ego?  There is no reason for it, it doesn't make a thing healthier or better or anything.
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  • imagelaurasuzanne2006:
    i get what you are saying, it may have been better to send a PM.  At the same time why would she publically post that she was doing that.  And not that it makes it more justifiable but there were many people before me that made comments on her public post.  At the same time i did feel it was important to point out that this isn't what it means to have a homebirth.  And honestly i don't feel she has a "right" to risk the safety of her child.  Frankly I don't know all the laws in this regard but if something were to happen to her child I have a hard time believing she would have no legal ramifications for planning a birth with no medical attention whatsoever.

    It's not about whether she has the right to risk the safety of her child or not.  It's about who decides what is and is not an acceptable level of risk.  Because all childbirth puts the baby at some degree of risk.  And in fact, some of the things that NB folks advocate put the baby at more risk that the alternative--VBAC for example.  So the issue is who gets to choose?  The pregnant woman, who has the most invested in her baby's health and her own body?  Or the government, which has far less invested?  Either a pregnant woman has the same rights to her own bodily autonomy as every other American, or she doesn't.  And if she doesn't, that bodes poorly for the natural childbirth movement.

    And who is really "ruining" things for the rest of us?  I would argue it's the lobbying groups that spend time and money derailing legislation to legalize DEMs in state after state or to allow more autonomy to legal midwives, the groups who refuse to integrate midwifery and OOH birth into our medical system, the insurance companies who refuse to cover OOH services, the hospital bureaucrats who are more concerned about lawsuits than patient wellbeing, etc.  The people with the money and power who are actively working to suppress midwifery and women's access to choices in childbirth.  Not the fraction of a percent of American women who choose UC. 

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  • Iris, I once again totally agree with you. I personally would never willingly choose a UC because of the risk, but I do not want to restrict other women from doing so.
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  • imageiris427:

    It's not about whether she has the right to risk the safety of her child or not.  It's about who decides what is and is not an acceptable level of risk.  Because all childbirth puts the baby at some degree of risk.  And in fact, some of the things that NB folks advocate put the baby at more risk that the alternative--VBAC for example.  So the issue is who gets to choose?  The pregnant woman, who has the most invested in her baby's health and her own body? Or the government, which has far less invested?  Either a pregnant woman has the same rights to her own bodily autonomy as every other American, or she doesn't.  And if she doesn't, that bodes poorly for the natural childbirth movement.

    And who is really "ruining" things for the rest of us?  I would argue it's the lobbying groups that spend time and money derailing legislation to legalize DEMs in state after state or to allow more autonomy to legal midwives, the groups who refuse to integrate midwifery and OOH birth into our medical system, the insurance companies who refuse to cover OOH services, the hospital bureaucrats who are more concerned about lawsuits than patient wellbeing, etc.  The people with the money and power who are actively working to suppress midwifery and women's access to choices in childbirth.  Not the fraction of a percent of American women who choose UC. 

    Yes  times a thousand! Iris, as usual right on and a delight to read!

    You guys, I understand your pain but how is it that you can't see that what you are doing is the same thing that has been done to us so many times? Even if her risks are higher, it is her choice! And thank god for that! Next thing you know you'd have people barge into your houses and take you to a hospital by force to have your babies. Fetus's rights and such.

    Just the other day, on the "my ob said what" site there was an entry by a woman who was forced to have a cesarean (a cesarean, not an induction) under the threat that, if she didn't the hospital would call child protective services and take her baby away. Why? Because she was planning a homebirth and she was post-term. So she went to the hospital to check on her fluid and the baby's general well being and they not only kept her from leaving, but forced her to have a c-section. After all, she would be risking the safety of the child. Now, I am sorry, but that just stinks.

    I don't do all that publicly calling out people who have elective c-sections or scheduled inductions and all that... if I can respect those choices, I can respect her choice to have an UC.

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  • Yup, totally agree with Iris.  It's HER choice and that's that.  UC is not illegal...in some states it's more "legal" than homebirth as certified midwives aren't allowed to attend births.  Just about everything you said in your argument I've heard used against women who are homebirthing with a midwife. It's not a choice I would make myself but I am thankful we live in a country where we are still free enough to make these choices for ourselves.

    You don't get to decide what's right for someone else's birth, just like no one else got to decide what was right for you.  You were completely wrong to post that on her Facebook status.

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  • While a UC is not something I would ever consider doing, I don't judge women who do chose that route. I agree with Iris and I'm pretty sure you just offended the UCers on this board if they're still around.
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  • imageAshfieldMay:
    While a UC is not something I would ever consider doing, I don't judge women who do chose that route. I agree with Iris and I'm pretty sure you just offended the UCers on this board if they're still around.

    This. I am once again impressed by the judgment expressed here. Thanks, Iris. 

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  • imageiris427:
    imageridesbuttons:

    ^^^ I have to disagree with:

    people who have a UC are ruining it for the rest of us. It's not a choice I would make but it is their right to have one

    There is just no justifiable reason to make a decision with forethought to have an unassisted childbirth save for some grand ego of the mother to be.  None.

    And it does, like it or not, lump all homebirthers into this fringe group of (adjective here) women.

    But I totally agree that calling her out publicly is a bad move, as I already stated.

    You disagree with what?  That it's a woman's right to have a UC?  Well it is.  A woman has the legal right in the US to have an unassisted birth and I wouldn't have it any other way. 

    Saying a UC is all about ego is just as bad as the people who say that a home birth or a VBAC or a natural birth is all about ego.  It's a ridiculous oversimplification of the choices women make and why they make them.  

    If you believe in a woman's autonomy and that she should have the right to birth where she wants and with whom she wants, shouldn't that logically extend to her right to an unassisted birth?  Or do we only believe in that when we happen to agree with the woman's choice?

     

    This. 

    I am a midwife's apprentice, a doula, and a cbe. I also support UC (note, I didn't say that I encourage it). I know quite a few women who chose UC for one reason or another. Some reasons given:

    • Had two prior cesareans (once for a breech, once because she couldn't find a VBAC doc/mw) and couldn't find a midwife or doctor to give her a TOL/VBA2C
    • Was literally raped by her prior OB (yep, went to court and all) and then, with her 2nd, her midwife transferred her to the hospital for FTP, dropped her at the door, wouldn't even accompany her. She didn't trust docs (PTSD and vasal vagal response) and had a vasal vagal response to the concept of a mw attended homebirth.
    • A friend of mine is a doctor and her husband is an EMT. They believe that they are prepared and have a transfer plan in place should they need it, both are NRP certified, have access to sutures, pit, and oxygen, should they need it in an emergency.
    • baby #6... first, planned hospital birth, went into labor and had her baby within 1 hour. 2nd, planned homebirth, mw didn't make it in time for her 45 minute labor. 3-6th, same story as #2... the last was 3 weeks overdue and baby came in 3 'pushing' contractions after 2 'labor' contractions that were 7 minutes apart. 

    These are some of the reasons give to me, personally, when women have told me their reasons.

    I may not agree with a scheduled cesarean, especially for myself,and in many situations, it is neither safe nor smart, but I support a scheduled cesarean, and some people have very good reasons for it.

    I may not agree with a planned U/C, especially for myself, and in many situations, it is neither safe nor smart, but I support a planned U/C, and some people have very good reasons for it.

    They are two polar opposites in the birthing continuum and, when I say that I support a woman's choice to birth where, how, and with whom she so chooses, I mean that to the fullest extent.

  • I agree with Iris that it should be a women's choice. It is a slippery slope if you start to limit what a women can choose about her birth.

    OP- I also see where you are coming from. I am sure there are a lot of people out there that see posts like that and then think that is how all home births are. Also I would like to say that I don't see anything wrong with you replying to her post. She posted it on a public page and obviously wanted attention about it.

  • Team Iris here. 

    I agree that women should have choices, UC being one of them.  While I don't feel comfortable doing it at this point, maybe I would after having a few more successful home births.  I don't judge a woman for UC at all.

    And I also agree that it wasn't right to post that on her FB, however, I have a feeling she was looking for those types of responses if she put it out there in the first place.  She had to know people would get judgy about it.

        
  • imagelaurasuzanne2006:
    i get what you are saying, it may have been better to send a PM.  At the same time why would she publically post that she was doing that.  And not that it makes it more justifiable but there were many people before me that made comments on her public post.  At the same time i did feel it was important to point out that this isn't what it means to have a homebirth.  And honestly i don't feel she has a "right" to risk the safety of her child.  Frankly I don't know all the laws in this regard but if something were to happen to her child I have a hard time believing she would have no legal ramifications for planning a birth with no medical attention whatsoever.

    You realize that people say the same thing about women who have home births, right?  People are saying these same things about you and your choices right now.  How does that make you feel?  

        
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