May I Barge In With A Question?

StrawberryAlarmClock

I have always vehemently supported marriage equality but I'm listening to John Waters on Fresh Air and he made a point that opened my eyes. He said that marriage is a "quirky hetero" tradition that he does not want for himself. I know that he is a unique individual and there are plenty of straight playboys/girls who don't want to settle down, but it reminded me of another NPR interview. A male couple pointed out that many same sex couples try to fit hetero wedding traditions (that date back to property exchange) and they think that, instead, they should forge their own new path. As a straight woman, I never looked at it that way. I never knew to. I guess I always figured what's good for the goose is good for the gander, KWIM? I can now see that one can be pro gay marriage and yet not necessarily want it for oneself. I don't know what I'm asking for- your thoughts, I guess. I, personally, think it's ludicrous that there is even debate over mariage equality. However, supporting people doesn't necessarily mean I should/would/could assign my opinions and desires to others. Ok. I'll shut up now and listen if you want to share. How do you feel? Do you think "white weddings" are a hetero thing and same sex couples should create their own new traditions? (I'm referring to traditions like the cake smash & poufy dress- not the rights & responsibilities of marriage) ETA: I remember who the couple was! The men who started the It Gets Better campagn you ladies told me about for my student.

2brides

I know hetero couples who have been together for years and have no desire to marry and I know gay couples who've been together for years who have no desire to do so even if it becomes a federal law. Every couple regardless of sexual orientation has the right to decide what is best for them. It is like children. I have lots of friends (straight and gay) who have no desire to have children, yet they fully support our decision to do so.

And as for traditions, I think every couple (regardless of sexual orientation) should have the wedding that best reflects them as a couple. We didn't do a cake smash or a poufy dress (or a garter/bouquet toss.) Not because they are a "hetero" tradition, but because they didn't reflect us as a couple. I think hetero couples who do those things simply because they are tradition, need to think about how they want their wedding to reflect them and not get caught in what they think they should do.

We did incorporate some other elements into our wedding (wishing stones, candle lighting) that aren't often seen in weddings, not because we wanted to create a new tradition, but we liked what they represented.

lnelson20

My personal belief is that marriage has evolved over time and has had different meanings/definitions over the years and that there is no reason that the LGBT community should have to come up with a different/alternative tradition. To me, getting married (and the legal right to do so) is about commemorating the lifelong commitment my wife and I have made to each other and our wedding (with the cake and the big white dress, etc.) was about celebrating that commitment in front of our friends and family--the people who support our relationship/commitment. That matters to me, but it is not for everyone (gay or not). 

StrawberryAlarmClock

2brides:

I know hetero couples who have been together for years and have no desire to marry and I know gay couples who've been together for years who have no desire to do so even if it becomes a federal law. Every couple regardless of sexual orientation has the right to decide what is best for them. It is like children. I have lots of friends (straight and gay) who have no desire to have children, yet they fully support our decision to do so.

And as for traditions, I think every couple (regardless of sexual orientation) should have the wedding that best reflects them as a couple. We didn't do a cash smash or a poufy dress (or a garter/bouquet toss.) Not because they are a "hetero" tradition, but because they didn't reflect us as a couple. I think hetero couples who do those things simply because they are tradition, need to think about how they want their wedding to reflect them and not get caught in what they think they should do.

We did incorporate some other elements into our wedding (wishing stones, candle lighting) that aren't often seen in weddings, not because we wanted to create a new tradition, but we liked what they represented.

Yeah, I'm regretting the word choice "playboy". I used it because JW's interview had me in the "bachelor" mindset. You're completely right about long-term commitments without the paperwork. As for your wishing stones & candles, I'm UU and Iove both of those practices.

Kershnic

I assume the man you're talking about is Dan Savage.  He also wrote a really excellent book called The Commitment (I think), which is about his own personal struggle with whether to get married or have a formal wedding and a lot of the societal stuff around these issues.  He is a gay parent and a strong advocate for the gay community, even if he is sometimes more vocal and risque than some would prefer.  

I have certainly heard of the attitude you're describing, although I believe it is becoming less common among younger LGBT people.  Marriage is not for everyone!  Elizabeth Gilbert also has a book on it from a straight woman's perspective.  It should still be an option for thoise of us who want it!

 For me, rituals and traditions are important. I've always envisioned a traditional wedding with a poofy white dress and an overpriced cake and my childhood church (which happens to be UU).  Having that was an important symbol for me that my relationship and lifelong committment was as significant and special and happy as my friends and relative's straight weddings.  My feelings might be colored by the fact that I'm bisexual and think I could have fallen in love with and married a man, but I don't really think so because DW felt just as passionately about the wedding as I did.  And she looked pretty cute in her big white overpriced dress! 

StrawberryAlarmClock

Your take on it makes sense. Duh. Everyone is different no matter what their orientation. I guess the reason i brought it up here is that being a "majority" pigeonhole (straight), 99% of the time the culture is the one that "works" for me so when I heard Savage explain that just because straight people want something and the LGBT community is long overdue to have it does NOT mean it would look the same as what we have. You guys are giving me my second duh moment of the day: Why wouldn't it? LOL So your point that every single individual has their preference is valid and well put. I think that groups of people with non-mainstream takes on life are starting to (rightly) point out, "hey, you may think you're being polite and respectful but here's an aspect of our culture that never occurred to you so really what you're doing is coming across as rude and na?ve." So, when I heard that, I figured it was yet another thing I was being na?ve about. ::sigh:: I'm talking in circles and don't know how to explain what's in my head :-P

butterflygrooves

I agree that everybody has their own tastes and their wedding should reflect those tastes, not necessarily sticking to the "traditional hetero" wedding. 

DW and I chose to have an outdoor reception for our domestic partnership (no ceremony), we hired a caterer with a huge BBQ to feed our guests BBQ/soul food, and we wore 50's attire.  Not something I see many hetero couples doing but it was fun.

For our eventual legal wedding (even if I'm 99 at the time) I plan to wear a Kate Middleton-esque wedding gown, and it will be a very formal event.  I am not planning it that way because it's a hetero tradition, I want the big, formal white wedding for me.

geeeegers

M and I were legally married in Boston (traveled from CA) because it was really important to us to have that title. However, we have discussed this issue a lot with both straight and gay friends and we like Mexico's (and many other places) protocol.

In a lot of places only a church can "marry" you. It is a religious ceremony and title. The state/government issues you a civil union with all of the rights, etc. I wish it were that way here... anyone two people could apply for a civil union, gay or straight, and if you want a church to marry you then you can have that ceremony, too.

We had a very traditional wedding and we wouldn't change a thing about it.