Can I get some insight? NBR and very long

jamiemsmith

Ok... yesterday all of those storms rolled through and our dogs were worried to death when I finally got home yesterday afternoon. I didn't really have time to sit down and reassure them as I usually have to after storms. I fed them and started getting A's bath ready. Well I hear growling (one of our dogs, Piper, guards her food) so I made sure I separated the bowls and showed Sloan her bowl. I go back and start undressing A and I hear the dogs fighting.

Now they're both females and I know female fights can end in death. So I immediately freaked out. They've fought like this only once before and I ended up getting bit because I tried to stop them. So I knew I couldn't just stick my hands in there to pull them apart. Don't worry A was in another room and safe.

I threw water on them, clapped and yelled, Nothing worked. Finally, I decided to try to pull on Sloan's hind quarters. She had Piper by the scruff and when I pulled her she wouldn't let go. I ended up twisting her collar until she let go, but my pulling had caused Sloan to rip a gash into Piper's ear. I was a shaking mess and both dogs were freaked out. I separated them and they both laid down and I thought they were going to pass out. It was terrible.

Piper's ear was visibly split and was pouring blood. DH was on his way home and I told him as soon as he got there he had to take her to the emergency vet. She got stitches and the poor thing was drugged out of her mind. Well she's acting a little better and all of her wounds will heal. Sloan had one cut on her shoulder area that was very shallow, I cleaned it and she will be fine. She's done worse on the fence outside.

I don't know what to do. I don't know if we should rehome one of them or just go to a behavioralist. I love both of them dearly, but they aren't big fans of each other. They've had dominance issues since Sloan grew out of puppyhood. We have always watched them closely and I remove any stimulus they might fight over. Apparently I will have to start feeding them in separate rooms. I don't want this to happen again. I won't let anything happen to A, though they've never shown aggression towards him. I'm just a mess.

Before you say to go to the pet's board, I really don't know them, so I don't really value their opinions. I have to run, but please leave any insight or advice you might have. I just want all of our animals and us to stay safe and be happy.

If you made it through this, thanks. Oh and we didn't get to enjoy A's 1/2 birthday cake because of all of this. Ugh.

PunkyBooster

Well I am a petsie, and I think you may get some very valuable insight over there.

With that said, how scary! Female-female combos are the worst in my house (I foster). With that said, what is done is done SO my suggestions are:

1. call a behaviorist. It is worth a try. See what kind of program he or she can put your dogs on to help them try to live in harmony. 

2. ALWAYS feed separately. Our dogs get fed in crates, with the doors closed. Food is a VERY precious resource for dogs and they WILL fight for it. Same goes for any treats, rawhides, and some toys.

3. See what the behaviorist says. It may be that your only option is to rehome one of them. I'm NOT an advocate for re-homing but when the dog's lives are compromised, then it may be the best idea. I do think you should explore a behaviorist first. 

What kinds of dogs are these? Do they play together at all? Do they LIKE each other at all? 

And you, of course, know this, but dog aggression =/= human aggression. With that said, although my dog doesn't really guard her food or toys and she loves DS as if she gave birth to him herself, he will not be allowed near the kitchen during her meal time. You just never know. And he needs to be taught to respect all dogs- not just mine- so I plan to teach him to treat our dog the same way he would treat a random dog on the street. Because that random dog may not tolerate a kiss or a hug or toddling up to it. KWIM?

Anyway, tangent. I wish you luck. 

QueenBee320

I'm sorry that happened! That's really scary! I hate to say it but I would rehome one or both of them (probably both) for A's safety.  You wouldn't want to risk a fight breaking out with him nearby especially when he starts to be mobile.  Or even worse one of them snapping at him.  Is there a friend or family member who might take one of them so you could still see her? 

izzourclue

You have not created a home where you are in charge.  That's why this happened.  No dog should be allowed to guard food.  Also "reassuring" them when they are nervous just reinforces their fears.  Get some help learning how to be a pack leader.  Until then, physical separation unless being supervised is warranted.  Start with a disciplined walk with both dogs everyday and take care of this food guarding issue.  Your child will eventually get bit if you continue to allow this dangerous behavior.  Good luck

LILBIT1221

My kids act like this sometimes. I just beat the shiit outta them.

 

I kid I kid.

I have nothing to add here.

HappyDaze12

BostonKisses2:

I would try the behavioralist before trying to rehome one of them - they should be able to give you some things to try to help with the aggression, especially since you noted that it's been going on since both dogs were adults.

Could some of this be caused by the storm anxiety?  There are treatments that you can get for dogs to help with storm anxiety.  I'm not saying that they necessarily need medication, but they do have special blankets out there that comfort the dogs during a storm.

I guess as a last resort rehoming one of the dogs would be a possibility, and that would be if the behavioralist can't do anything to help you all out.

I'm sorry that this happened to you last night. 

Pretty much all of this. I was also thinking they were probably on edge due to the storm. I hope you are able to get to a place where you are not worried about this anymore!

FirstBabyMomma

I'm so sorry this is happening- not the kind of stress you need right now.

I've never been to a behaviourist, but if you can afford it, I think that would be the best. A good one would definitely be able to help. If I was in this position (because we have no behaviourists around here...we've looked into it for my mom's nutso dog), I would try separating their food bowls for a few weeks to see if that helps at all and would try to start spending time with each dog individually. Maybe some individual one-on-one attention might calm them down more. But I know that would be really hard with the baby, etc.

Just remember: if you have to rehome one of the dogs, you are not doing anyone a disservice. Of all the reasons to rehome, that is the best one because people's (and the other dog's) safety is at stake.

Good luck!

 

PunkyBooster

Yes, kick up the NILIF in your house too.

I use it on all the foster dogs and my own dog and it really helps them know what to expect and to see me as leader. 

Remember even the empty bowls need to be picked up and put away. They are YOUR bowls. YOUR food. You control it. They need to work for it- and separately. Don't set them up to fail again! 

I do need more details about what kinds of dogs they are and whether they ever get along. 

 

Jenny SB

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

Are both females spayed?  Hormones can play a large part in aggression.  However, if they are not spayed and you do that now, it may not help that much with the aggression they have towards each other because they already have a behavior pattern.  I still think they should be fixed for other reasons, but I digress...

Keep in mind that this is probably a difficult time for your dogs as they try to adjust to a new baby in the house and their new roles.  They aren't the babies anymore, and the attention they receive is different.  Not to mention all the new smells, noises, and things. 

 Aggression between dogs in a household can be a very difficult thing to handle.  It's my personal opinion that no matter what you do, you can never fully trust that the aggression will never happen again.  Many people have success with behavioral training and medication, but it does require that you are consistent and vigilant.

I'm not sure that I would be comfortable with the potential aggression and a child in the house, but you have to assess what you think you are capable of and how your dogs would respond to behavior modification.

FWIW, I am an RVT (registered vet tech) and my pets are very much a part of my family.  However, my rule is:  if they don't get along, the aggressor can't stay.  I have only had to enforce this rule once, and I tried to keep an aggressive dog completely separate from other animals in the house.  It required hyper-vigilance and it wasn't fair to the dog.  And a fight still happened.  Needless to say, this was before I had a baby.  There's no way I could or would do that now.

 I hope you are able to figure out a solution. 

Copernicus08

We had fighting dogs (a male and a female though) when I was pregnant and then again shortly after DS was born and it was because of my anxiety and lack of leadership from DH and I as "pack leaders" that caused it. I was ready to rehome them because I just couldn't deal with it, but DH convinced me to try a behaviorist (NOT an obedience trainer, but a real life dog behaviorist) and it was the BEST money we ever spent on our animals.

In addition to the other suggestions about being the pack leader (which DOES NOT mean being mean or dominant to your dogs -- it means that you show them calm, assertive energy all the time and correct them IMMEDIATELY when they exhibit a behavior that is unacceptable -- the behaviorist will teach you how to do this) and feeding separately (we crate our hounds in their individual crates for feeding times), and getting in good walks, one invaluable thing we learned from the behaviorist is how to reintroduce the dogs to each other after a fight happens. There is the breaking up of the fight, the calming down of the dogs, and the re-introduction to each other that is KEY! 

Please, please, PLEASE try a behaviorist before you re-home either of the dogs. I know you're in TN, but you could try contacting the behaviorist we used to see if she has any connections in your area. Christine Nolan of yourdogandyou.com studies under Linn Boyke, who was directly mentored by Cesar Millan (The Dog Whisperer)  and Christine was SO AMAZING with our dogs from the moment she stepped into our home. 

If you have questions or want more info, please feel free to email me: emily0608 (at) gmail (dot) com.  

Copernicus08

Also, I noticed you said something about "reassuring" your dogs about the impending storms. Mention this to the behaviorist -- often times, "reassuring" actually promotes the worried/anxious behavior that your dogs exhibit and an anxious dog is a dog with negative energy. A behaviorist can work with you and your dogs to desensitize them to thunder/storms/loud noises/whatever it is they don't like. Petting and calming and paying ANY attention to their anxious behavior actually encourages them to continue that behavior which is a bad thing. 

PunkyBooster

I HATE Cesear Milan. I'm much more in the Victoria Stillwell camp. But I think Cesear is an idiot, untrained, uneducated, and downright violent. I would break his nose if he came within 10 feet of my dog.

jamiemsmith

Thank you for all of your responses. I am much more of a fan of Victoria Stilwell than Cesar Milan, I actually dislike his take on things, and yes I have read his books.

Punky, they are a Weimaraner and a hound mix. Both are spayed. They played and got along when I introduced the weim to the house in 2007. When Sloan (weim) became more of an adult the dominant relationship switched and things have been rocky since. Piper (hound mix) is getting older now, and doesn't like to play as much. They haven't really been playful with each other in over a year and a half. If you have any other advice please let me know, you are one of the petsies (sp?) whose insight I prefer.

When I said reassuring, I meant I didn't get to play with them that afternoon to get things back to normal after the storm. I will certainly look into the behaviorist PP mentioned.

I will keep feedings separated from now on. I usually pick up the bowls, but Piper didn't eat that morning, so I left it out. My mistake. I do believe they were both on edge as the storm was really bad at my home. Plants knocked over, trees knocked down...etc.

I do need to be more of an assertive leader, but my DH is the one they respect. I think I need to get both dogs to the behaviorist and if they cannot help, rehoming will be my last resort.