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August 2011 Moms
amdraza
member
Circumcision (flame-free) Debate
amdraza
member
Okay, I promise that I am not trying to start drama. I just haven't heard much out there contrary to having your son circumsized. So..... I though that I would open up some discussion on the topic. I was very suprised to read that only about 5% of men in England are circumsized.
I still plan to get my son (if that's what we have) circumsized, but I'd like to hear some other views on the subject. So far this article highlights a few negatives https://www.babble.com/pregnancy/giving-birth/uncircumcised-baby-boy-infant-circumcision/, but I just find it hard to believe that your child would be scarred for life, since it is done at such a young age. And about sex not being as plessurable, I find that hard to believe too, because every guy I have been with has been circumsized and has no problem "enjoying" themselves.
Is there anything else that I am missing?
DS#1- Born August 2011
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Circumcision (flame-free) Debate
Such a tough topic - I think we're right in the middle of a cultural shift in what is "normal" and that eventually circumcision may not be the norm.
Right now, I feel like the challenge for me is will my son (if I have a son) be angry that we didn't do this in the future? Despite that it isn't really necessary - but still, most boys in the U.S. are circumcised, and vanity, unfortunately, does play a role in people's self esteem. So that would be my one concern about not circumcising.
I think I would feel guilty about going through with it though - to do something medically unnecessary simply because it is a social norm, despite that there are risks attached and that it must be horribly painful. I don't have my cat declawed b/c I find it cruel (even though our couches would benefit!), so I think I'd be a hypocrite if I then turned around and circumcised my son.
These are the thoughts that go around in my head on this topic, and if we do find out we have a boy - DH and I will need to have a discussion about this. I haven't felt the need to do so yet, with only a 50% chance that this will be a concern.
It's funny that you posted this... it's my "Question of the day" status on facebook
I'm all for making your own decisions, but so far the only reason I've seen for deciding to have it done (on my fb) is because uncircumcised looks funny
We will have Boo Boo (DH has decided that's babe's name -and he is Yogi- for awhile thanks to a preview last night) done, but looks had nothing to do with our decision.
IMO if there is any thought that you have a boy & MAY want it done .. do it when they are little.
I could not imagine them doing it later in life when its more sensitive and they have more of any idea about whats goig to happen. JMO. I have a 7 yr old who has had it done (day 2 of being alive) and he is fine and not scarred for life. Heck, he prob doesnt even know it was a choice for me! I say do what makes you feel comfortable and what you think you want the long run outcome to be.
I think that both sides of your concerns are valid.
I personally have a hard time getting over the fact that I have never seen an uncircumcised penis, and if I did (unfortunately) I would think that it is weird. I would hate for my son to be different then everyone else when it comes to a body part that plays such an important role in self esteem.
But the fact that it is just a social norm and isn't medically necessary is a good point to consider.
DS#1- Born August 2011
I'm pretty open, but I read the first few paragraphs and already have decided the author makes no sense.
How is Peter choosing to be circumsized as an adult rather than an infant proving her point that circumcision shouldn't be done in infants? Because it can be done when they're an adult?
Maybe I am misreading it, but a man who didn't have a circumcision and chose to have one as an adult due to problems doesn't convince me that it shouldn't be done.
I think this is a good topic for everyone to research, though. We plan on circumcising our son, not for religious reasons, but because it is what the men in both of our families have done.
ETA: I went ahead and finished reading it. Her argument is basically that they can decide for themselves as an adult... I'd have like to see more research and less personal opinions. But, this boils down to one's personal opinion.
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It is a medically unnecessary procedure. There are cultures that practice female circumcision, a procedure that most Americans find morally reprehensible. I can't imagine cutting my daughter's labia, clitoral hood, or clitoris. I would find it equally disturbing to cut the skin off of my son's penis.
if we could all just say no - we are not going to circumcize our sons, then this would be such an easy decision! Suddenly the norm would be that no boys of this generation are circumcized, so we wouldn't feel pressured to do so for vanity sake. but so many of us are scared that our sons won't look like other boys - so the trend continues. sigh.
I have to agree. While it's similar, it's not the same. Anything I've read regarding female circumcision details the pain women experience throughout their lives as a result. I've never known a circumcised man to experience pain as a result.
I also left the decision up to my husband. We agreed to have it done if we're having a boy.
One thing to think about is that while circumcision was the "norm" when most of us were born and growing up, it's really not anymore. Here's a quote from a New York Times article from August 17, 2010 titled, "US Circumcision Rates on the Decline..."
"The slide portrays a precipitous drop in circumcision, to just 32.5 percent in 2009 from 56 percent in 2006. The numbers are based on calculations made by SDI Health, a company in Plymouth Meeting, Pa., that analyzes health care data; they do not include procedures outside hospitals (like most Jewish ritual circumcisions) or not reimbursed by insurance."
I only point this out for those who are primarily circumcising because they don't want their son to be different from his peers. If this is accurate, only a third of little boys born now are being circumcised. I do think this rate varies greatly by region of the country and, obviously, by religion and culture.
If we have a boy we will not be circumcising, primarily because I don't like the idea of doing an unnecessary surgical procedure on a newborn. However, I certainly don't judge anyone who choses to do this - there are many, many arguments for and against.
Here's a link to the official American Academy of Pediatrics policy on circumcision. Essentially, they say that while there are potential benefits, they are not strong enough to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.
https://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/3/686
Holy cow! I had not heard of female circumcision, so I looked it up. Comparing it to male circumcision really does give you a different outlook.
These are the kind of oppsing views that I find very interresting.
DS#1- Born August 2011
THank you for this information. Very useful. If only 1/3 of boys out there, or even only 2/3 are being circumcized - I think this totally throws out my only doubts about NOT doing so and I will be arguing not to go through with it if we have a boy.
I'm in grad school for international development, and have read a fair amount of literature on female genital mutilation. My conclusion is that if you are circumcising for cultural, religious or social reasons, there is no moral or ethical difference between circumcision and the ritual cutting of your daughter's labia, clitoral hood or clitoris. So if you are okay with one and not the other, it would be worth examining why you have those feelings.
To provide a balanced viewpoint here, there is a fundamental difference between female genital mutilation and circumcision from a medical perspective, in that circumcision has been affirmatively shown to decrease the spread of serious STDs, including HIV/AIDs. There is a good explanation of the existing research on the CDC website: https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm. In contrast, female genital mutilation endangers the health of the baby, can cause permanent physical disfigurement and has no medical benefits whatsoever.
Personally, we are not going to circumcise. My husband is not circumcised. I am fundamentally opposed to female genital mutilation and therefore cannot justify the procedure on cultural or social grounds. In terms of the medical benefits, I believe that any increased risk of STDs may be overcome by proactive and clear sexual education throughout childhood.
Obviously under current laws it is everyone's personal choice, but I encourage women to think very carefully and read as much as possible about the positives and negatives before deciding. Circumcising because you think it's "weird" to see an uncircumcised penis is not a valid reason.
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DS1 born 08.02.11
DS2 born 12.05.13
We will not be circumcising our son.
It's medically unnecessary. Rates of circumcision are going down, some studies show that well under 50% of boys born in the US are now getting circumcised. So the cosmetic argument doesn't hold for me either. If your son will be uncircumcised, he will not be out of the norm, he will BE the norm. (Not that I think that following social norms should be the primary driving factor behind medical decisions.)
Good post-I love the discussion. We did talk about this already, and our son will be circumsized. I knew DH would say yes without thinking about it, so I brought several articles that I had printed out to him. We had an actual discussion after he read them, and then I told him that I am leaning towards circumcision. He is as well=decision made.
https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision
https://www.medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons/article.htm
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To be fair, I said that (unfortunately) I think it would look weird. I am very aware that it is probably vein and biased of me to think that way, but I am just being honest.
DS#1- Born August 2011
This! DH and I talked about this and we both came to the table with very different research. DH's take was that he isn't circumsized and never felt any different than any of his friends growing up. We didn't talk specifics but he has several friends that are circumsized. I came to the table with some pros and cons of doing it that I had researched and he pretty much shutdown all the pros I could have come up with saying that caring for a boy with an uncircumsized penis could not be any more complicated than caring for a boy with a circumsized penis assuming there are no other problems with the child. I don't normally cave to DH but he felt strongly on this so I'm gonna have to go with him.
Sorry, that was not actually directed at you specifically - you'd be surprised how many people (men and women) have said things like that to me when I've gotten in discussions about this. I think it's great that you brought up the topic, because in the United States especially I think more information needs to be spread about it - I love living here, but this country is pretty darn insulated a lot of the time.
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DS1 born 08.02.11
DS2 born 12.05.13
Like a few other posters my H and I decussed it and I said he can decide because he is the man. I dont have a penis so I dont know what its like or how I would feel if was or wasn't done. He said we are doing it. He is fine, not scarred for life, preformed sexually JUST fine.
On a side note my parents did not get a circumcision for my little brother. I remember when he was little coming home from the summer camp sleep over saying all the other boys made fun of him. However he is now 21 years old and as far as I know has no issues. He has had a few girlfriends and I am 100% sure he is not a virgin. So he is doing just fine I think.
While male circumcision is not medically necessary, I find it a stretch to say its as "equally disturbing" as female circumcision - a process that most people around the WORLD find morally reprehensible and have very different impacts on the sex organs of the two sexes.
We will be circumcising for religious reasons, but also because my dh was not as a child, and ended up having to be when he was a teenager, which was a very very painful process. If there is any chance it would be more likely for our child we want to avoid that
Since its not covered by insurance, we probably won't just to save $200.
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Totally just kidding here but I do think that a reason there is a shift happening is because insurance stopped covering the procedure and a lot of people don't want to shell out the money.
I agree with this. We don't know what we're having yet, but if we do have a boy, we will decide not to circumcise. MH is not circumcised and never had to deal with any issues growing up. Yeah, he got the questions in the high school locker room. He answered that it wasn't any different, and the questions ended there. It definitely did not affect his self-esteem down the road, since he's quite the confident guy, so I don't really see that being one of the deciding factors IMO.
Yes they numb the penis before the circumcision. I have seen them done and the babies didn't even cry through it. I also take care of the babies after they are done. If a baby is fussy after it is done we will give them tylenol but the majority of babies don't need it.
https://mgmbill.org/statistics.htm
Statistics by region. Doesn't surprise me that Nebraska is in the high end. I live in CO now, and it's not as high. These stats are from 2009, so it's possible that they've dropped further.
When I lived in Britain it was the circumcized boys who were made fun of and seen as the ones with a 'weird' looking penis. Which just goes to show it's all about culture and societal pressures. My very Jewish friends had a little boy and had a bris where the boy was circumcized 'spiritually' and left his penis intact.
When I lived in Britain it was the circumcized boys who were made fun of and seen as the ones with a 'weird' looking penis. Which just goes to show it's all about culture and societal pressures. My very Jewish friends had a little boy and had a bris where the boy was circumcized 'spiritually' and left his penis intact.
IDK. H and I didn't really even discuss it -- H isn't circumcised (TMI, sorry), and we see no reason to circumcise our son.
I grew up around lots of newborns, and I remember that during those first few days until the wound heals, it's very painful for them to pee... So when H brought up the topic, I had no problem with it because
a) my husband has no problem with cleanliness, so that isn't an issue (therefore, I trust that he will be able to teach L to groom appropriately);
b) I don't want to see my baby in pain for something I consider medically unnecessary;
c) my husband has never had a complex about the fact that he isn't circumcised so I don't worry that my son will have a complex. I feel like my husband is going to be an excellent role model in terms of teaching L what it means to have self confidence and being comfortable with his body.
*shrugs* This isn't really a soapbox topic for me. It's just what works for our family.
It's an interesting debate that hubby and I have discussed at length. I had assumed we would since DH is Jewish, but he is actually against it. He did say, however, (and he's watched some circumcisions as a med student) that if you're going to do it you should do so early on. For me (and this is just my opinion) I went back and forth. In the end, we likely will not as we see it as elective. I also will not pierce my daughter's ears when she's a baby. Again, my opinion only - everyone has their views. I know for a while circumcision was thought to help prevent certain health issues, but this has seemed to be dying down lately.
And of course, our first child was a girl and we don't know what this one is until tomorrow ...so our discussions could be completely moot
That circ rate by state was interesting, thanks! We are in CA and I definitely feel like circ as a norm is on it's way out. We circ'd our boy and I am now leaning toward regretting it. He has had little issues since day one with it. The skin has healed a little off, and while the dr isn't concerned it's not quite right. And the tip is soooo sensitive! Poor thing has a red spot on it most of the time, and he's PTed! Just recently he went through a few weeks of pain while peeing, to the point where we took him to the dr thinking it was a UTI. She said it's pretty common in circ'd boys to get irritated penis' because it's tender skin. The tip would actually scab over in between peeing, poor guy. Like I said he's in undies other than sleeping so it's not like diapers are to blame. I left the decision up to DH last time but if we are having a boy this time I will not. We will need to really talk about it, because there are many reasons not to and not many to do it.
Because it's a medically unnecessary, cosmetic permanent surgery to an infant, I find it appalling* and I could not do it to my own (hypothetical) son(s). Fortunately, the fact that it's not recommended by the AAP, not covered by health insurance, and completely NOT the norm in our area (and fast becoming not the norm in our country, certainly not the norm in the world), my H is also opposed and would never want it done either. Not to mention that I'm passionate enough about it that we had had the conversation long before marriage and kids...
As an aside, my 12 yo nephew is not circ'd and also my aunt chose to not circ her son 14 years ago (so, this isn't really a totally recent movement to see how unnecessary it is)...but anyway, there is a rare (very rare) condition that requires a male to be circ'd that you wouldn't know about until they are older (my cousin was 5 when his was discovered). So, he had to be circ'd at age 5. He's 14 now, and I assure you, he was not traumatized. Does he remember it? Yes. Would my aunt have circ'd another son after the experience? Absolutely not. Knowing all this, and having seen my 5 (at the time) yo cousin go through it, will I circ my (hypothetical) son(s)? Absolutely not.
I really don't understand what's wrong with the argument that they can decide for themselves, once adults, if they want it done.
*appaling for ME and my family.
actually, this isn't really a true statement. It used to be so standard (in the US) but lately people have been reconsidering and the most current estimates show that less than half American boys are now having it done.
Yep. There are conflicting sources out there, but a lot of the data points to circ rates dropping to as low as 32% in the US a few years ago (and steadily dropping still).
https://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/us-circumcision-rate-falls-to-33.html
and thanks - this was new information for me today too
I've learned a lot, and feel better about going into this decision if we do have a boy.