Success after IF

Not on same page about sleep - input please?

DH and I had a disagreement about DS's sleep this morning...its been building ever since our @#$@ pedi told us at 4 months that he should be STTN and doesn't need to eat overnight anymore.  and that he let his kids CIO.  I've managed to hold DH off and get him to work with me by sending him in to calm DS before a certain time (when Iknew that he shouldn't be really hungry).  and its worked pretty well...we are down to 1-2 wakings a night.  And he has STTN a few times over the last few weeks. 

The problem is that I am not comfortable leaving DS overnight until he is either STTN consistently or willing to take a bottle (he will only take them at daycare, no where else)...and DH is getting very impatient to have a whole night with me free to be "his old Abby" (ie, drunk and carefree...). 

And to be honest, I don't want to end up with a two year old that still wakes multiple times a night...but I can't stand to hear him cry...  And it seems like he's been getting better with our efforts...

Right now, he goes to sleep around 7:3-8 (goes down really easily).  He had been tending to stay sleeping until somewhere around 2-4 when he wakes up...at that point, I assume that he's going to be hungry, I know I am!   So I have been just going in, nursing him and then he goes right back to sleep until 5:30-6 (we normally start our day on weekdays around 6-6:30, so its not a big deal to us when he gets up then.)  On the weekends, he will usually go back to sleep after eating at that point and will sleep until 7:45 or so.

What should I be doing to start night weaning?  Should I start limiting the amount of time I let him nurse?  (and should I even be doing that if I've been struggling with supply?  I'm on domperidone now to make sure I can pump enough during the day... and once my supply bounced back up, was when he started STTN occasionally again...so I can't help but think that when he doesn't STTN, its because he's hungry.  

I really need to get a few books to read (like the NCSS - i'm open to suggestions!).  

Re: Not on same page about sleep - input please?

  • I don't have any personal experience with BFing as H was a FF baby. However I do know that BF babies tend to STTN later than FF babies since BM digests faster. That being said, night waking can become a habit so he could be waking from habit vs. hunger. I know a lot of women who BF and are looking for their LO's to STTN, they only send in DH to comfort them. GL! I hope that you are able get back to your "old self". (I don't think I will ever be my "old self", I will always be a mom now.)
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  • imagemrsolsenk12:
    (I don't think I will ever be my "old self", I will always be a mom now.)
      yeah.. i think that is the case with me too...and DH isn't dealing with it well...I know I need to make more of an effort to get out of the house with him, but I just feel so cheated on time with DS when that happens...ugh. 
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  • We also didn't really push STTN.  We decided we were ok with 1 night waking, and then we just aimed to push back the time they ate.  We did do a little CIO in there, but for the most part, it was as if they heard us decide that they weren't getting fed before a certain time, and didn't wake up!  First it was 4, then 4:30, then 5... but now that they are generally sleeping through til at least 5, we will feed them on the off-chance they wake up before then.

    It really wasn't til about 7 months or so that we were really ready to try any kind of sleep training.

    I also agree about the "old self" thing.  Some things will just never be the same. 

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  • I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts.  Jones sounds like Andrew as to his sleep pattern.  I'd love to keep pushing back that night feed, but am not really sure how.  Last night he ate 7 oz when he woke up at 1, so I know he was hungry! 

    We'll figure this out...and I hope your DH hangs in there too - it's not going to last forever!

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  • I think Ferber says that it's normal to need/want to eat at least once until 5-6 months, so I'd disagree with your pedi on that point (minor, I know, but I say it in case anyone with a 4 month old is reading!).

    We never pushed Will to stop  eating his one middle of the night feeding until after that point. Then we started shrinking the amounts for that feeding; we did not cut it out entirely - it's tough to go cold turkey! I was pumping, so we had bottles, but we went from 4oz to 3.5oz to 3 to 2.5 to 2 and kept it at 2 until he just decided it wasn't worth it to wake up in the middle of the night for that bottle. Now he prefers his sleep. :) Maybe you could decrease the time he feeds in the middle of the night? The idea is to get his stomach out of the habit of needing to eat. He'll probably eat more during the day to make up for it, so you're not starving him.

    That all being said, I can imagine it's very difficult to be on a different page from  your DH on this issue. (((hugs)))

  • imagenjdcgirl:

    I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts.  Jones sounds like Andrew as to his sleep pattern.  I'd love to keep pushing back that night feed, but am not really sure how.  Last night he ate 7 oz when he woke up at 1, so I know he was hungry! 

    We'll figure this out...and I hope your DH hangs in there too - it's not going to last forever!

    I think you may want to wait longer with Andrew, but ask your pedi. At 3 months (adjusted), eating one bottle in the middle of the night is great!! :) 

    And wow - 7 oz!! Will has never eaten that much! Andrew is such a great eater! :) 

  • Once I was sure that she was waking out of habit and not hunger (one night she woke up, latched on, and barely ate anything), I started sending DH in for any waking before about 2:00am.  He could get her quiet and back to sleep, but the second she saw me, it was all "BOOB BOOB BOOB!!"  It was a rough few nights for him, but in the end it really helped break that habit so that we could get some decent sleep.

    After 2:00 I figure that it's legit that she could be hungry after sleeping for 6+ hours, so I usually bring her into bed and nurse her.

    At this point, if we can get her down and sleeping well at 8:00 (about 80% of the time), then she'll sleep until somewhere between 4:00 and 6:00.

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  • Personally, I think he's too young to night wean. H continued to nurse at least once a night until I weaned him fully at eight months. And I think he needed it--he was never one to nurse for comfort. But that's just my personal opinion and plenty of people disagree with me (although my pedi wasn't one of them, fwiw...she told me to continue to nurse him at night as long as he seemed to need it).

    I think it sounds like he's doing really well in the sleep dept for a six-month old breastfed baby, but only you can decide what is best for him and for you.

    I will say that if you decide to sleep train I think it's VITALLY important that both parents be on board. It can be tough, and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go through that without my husband's support.

    Good luck!

  • imagecjsbdl:

    Personally, I think he's too young to night wean. H continued to nurse at least once a night until I weaned him fully at eight months. And I think he needed it--he was never one to nurse for comfort. But that's just my personal opinion and plenty of people disagree with me (although my pedi wasn't one of them, fwiw...she told me to continue to nurse him at night as long as he seemed to need it).

    I think it sounds like he's doing really well in the sleep dept for a six-month old breastfed baby, but only you can decide what is best for him and for you.

    I will say that if you decide to sleep train I think it's VITALLY important that both parents be on board. It can be tough, and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go through that without my husband's support.

    Good luck!

    Ditto all this. Elizabeth woke to nurse once overnight until she was 11-12 months. She would drain one side completely and never just latch and fall back to sleep, so I figured she was hungry. But like cjsbdl, that's just my personal opinion and experience! But at six months, she was definitely still nursing at least once overnight, sometimes more. But I also wasn't willing to do CIO, so I nursed a lot longer at night than many others. :)

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  • grr...I could beat my pedi for putting this in DH's head!  sounds like Jones is completely normal.  When he wakes up, he usually drains both sides before he's happy to go back to sleep, so I really just feel like he's hungry.  ok, thanks ladies, I feel renewed and justified in my thoughts on this...now to work out a plan with DH that he will be happy with.  (And I guess I should really focus on getting some more time out with him...its just so freaking tough since Jones just refuses to take a bottle!! AUGH!!) 

    THANK YOU!!!!  

  • imagekme930:

    I think Ferber says that it's normal to need/want to eat at least once until 5-6 months, so I'd disagree with your pedi on that point (minor, I know, but I say it in case anyone with a 4 month old is reading!).

    We never pushed Will to stop  eating his one middle of the night feeding until after that point. Then we started shrinking the amounts for that feeding; we did not cut it out entirely - it's tough to go cold turkey! I was pumping, so we had bottles, but we went from 4oz to 3.5oz to 3 to 2.5 to 2 and kept it at 2 until he just decided it wasn't worth it to wake up in the middle of the night for that bottle. Now he prefers his sleep. :) Maybe you could decrease the time he feeds in the middle of the night? The idea is to get his stomach out of the habit of needing to eat. He'll probably eat more during the day to make up for it, so you're not starving him.

    That all being said, I can imagine it's very difficult to be on a different page from  your DH on this issue. (((hugs)))

    I agree. For me, it was a help to distinguish between night time hunger and the NEED to eat. Because like you said, we are hungry at 3am, but that doesn't mean we get up and eat then. We don't need the calories overnight, even though a burger would be tasty. I saw it the same way with Anna (and this was confirmed when she would take boob but not a bottle at 3am...which I know is complicated with Jones, but for us confirmed that she wasn't hungry enough to take the bottle, she just wanted the interaction and comfort). I would try to reduce the amount of time you nurse him and see how it goes (and after you finish with Jones, you can pump if you are worried about your supply). Hopefully, his stomach will adjust to eating less overnight and it won't wake him up as often. Whatever youndo... good luck. It is SO HARD when mom and dad are not on the same page. But maybe you can agree on baby steps towards the goal of STTN?
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  • imageMouseygail:

    .now to work out a plan with DH that he will be happy with.  (And I guess I should really focus on getting some more time out with him...its just so freaking tough since Jones just refuses to take a bottle!! AUGH!!) 

    THANK YOU!!!!  

    FWIW, I think you have plenty of company with this issue. My husband was not one who ever pushed me to leave Henry, etc, (in fact, quite the opposite, he's usually happier for us to all stay home), but it's a pretty common problem for men to have trouble adjusting to the lifestyle change.

    I don't think there's anything at all wrong with leaving LO overnight at six months, but it's really tough when they're BF. Henry stays overnight with MIL, but we didn't do it until he was 11 months old and he'd been long weaned by then.

  • You need to do what is right for you and your baby. Don't feel pressured one way or another.

    I was not ready to not feed my LOs overnight until about a month ago. Logically I knew they didn't need to eat, but feeding them worked for us. Then the night wakings got so bad that it no longer worked for us (like 5 waking a night per child). We did a little bit of CIO (only up to 10 mins total of crying before one of us went in) and now they are both STTN consistently, for the first.time.ever!

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  • I am by no means a sleep guru & DD doesn't STTN consistently either (but I really do think she's hungry b/c she only still eats 4 oz @ a time & is still just a little over 10lbs, probably close to 11 by now - she was a teeny thing when she was born so she's a little behind weight-wise), but I read in Baby Whisperer that sometimes parents think their kids are hungry when all they really want to do is suck something. IDK if you use a paci, but have you tried offering that instead of your boob during the night wakings? I would try it without picking him up, but if he fights it & cries more, then i'd say just feed him. I am not a CIO'er right now & not sure if I'll ever be able to do it (although I think dH would do it if I said ok) b/c, like you, I hate hearing her cry, so hopefully you can figure something out. Let me know how it goes & gl sweetie!
  • I think your DH need to chill a little bit.  Jones will only be this little for an incredibly short period of time, and you can be drunk and carefree later on.  Well, maybe drunk, but never carefree again...I don't think carefree is possible when you have kids.

    Breastfed babies often wake up at night to nurse...I nursed Caroline over night until after she was a year old.  She did just like Jones, she'd wake up, nurse and go right back to sleep.  It took no time, and it was easy peasy and we all went right back to sleep.

    My supply certainly suffered when Caroline started STTN, so I'd be very hesitant to night wean if you are having supply troubles. 

    You can't let him push you into leaving Jones overnight before you are ready...you'll have a miserable time, miss him and be worried all night about him...but once you get ready, you'll have a great time.

    Tell him to relax and give you a few more months...he can last that long, surely ;)

     

     

  • B just started sleeping through the night 3 weeks ago. We did no sleep training but I did try to keep to a schedule for her. When she fussed, I went to her. When she needed to be fed, I fed her. Sometimes she was up 2 or 3 times at night, but would go back to sleep after eating or being snuggled. I stopped BF at 3 months but she would only take the bottle from me at night. I just figured it was such a short time she would need this that I just soaked it all up. DH was on the same page with me. Our pediatrician kept asking if we were going to "sleep train" and I would say no.

    FWIW now she sleeps soundly through the night, doesn't cry when she wakes up (usually sings to herself until we come in) and we have a happy baby. So the fact we didn't sleep train didn't affect her negatively in any way. So do what you think is right. I'd stick to your guns. DH often got his panties in a bunch too b/c we weren't doing the same things as before and everything was different.  This is what I said to him "It will never be the same again hun. I thank God for that every day I wake up".

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  • I'd also add that my DD still nurses once at night -- well 4 a.m or so.  I work long hours, we have only two daytime nursing sessions (wake-up and sleepy time at night) and because I often don't get home until 6:30 or 7 we have limited time together.  I think whether or not she needs the calories or not is sort of irrelevant, she wants me, she wants our closeness and it's our time to reconnect.  Is it super ideal?  No.  But it is super special.  And as others have said she's only this age today, tomorrow she's another day older.  I don't know if EBF is something you want to do or not but for me one benefit of EBF has been that continued opportunity for us to spend time together.  Someday it will stop - in fact it might stop when I go out of town for business later this month because I know that she doesn't need it.  But I'm going to miss it all the same.
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  • imageGypsyEsq:
    I think whether or not she needs the calories or not is sort of irrelevant, she wants me, she wants our closeness and it's our time to reconnect.  Is it super ideal?  No.  But it is super special. 

    I feel the same way.  And I'll add that Cal pretty much stopped nursing during the day by about 14 months, so at that point the night-nursing was the only nursing session we had.  That's one reason I wanted to keep up with it, b/c I liked the fact that he was still getting those nutrients/antibodies from me.   Also, I was working FT, so I didn't want to give up that bonding time either.  There were definitely phases where he was waking a lot and wanting to nurse every time, and that was very hard on me, but I kept up with it.  Then again, I'm the freak who decided to nurse until age 2 (per WHO recommendations) and is still nursing once every other day (that's my new rule) in the mornings, at almost 26 months.  I just want to do everything in my power to make sure he is happy and healthy...but I realize my idea of that is different from others', and that's okay!

    But yeah, if you can try to make your DH understand why you're doing what you're doing, hopefully he can relax a little.  Maybe make it a point to go out with him soon, even if it's not his idea of the perfect date.  :)

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  • Ugh, I have no "real" suggestions because I'm in a similar boat. DD has started waking during the night, but not to eat, and I still can't get her to stay in her damn crib!

    Is he eating solids yet? What time do you feed him those? DD eats food around 6pm, then bath at 6:30 and bottle/bed at 7. Sometimes she doesn't even take the bottle and sometimes she'll eat 5 oz. Then she gets a bottle at 6am when she wakes up. She is FF so I'm sure that is a little different.

    As far as CIO, I bought the NCSS book and am trying, really trying, but having no luck. She won't stay in her crib more than 2 hrs and defintely won't soothe herself to sleep or back to sleep. I am sticking with it for a while though because I really like the theory, I just hope I see some results soon. 

    Hang in there and hope you and your DH can come to an arrangment you are both happy with. 

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  • We nursed at night until she dropped the feeding on her own. I wanna say that was around 8mo or so, but honestly, if/when she wakes now, I still feed her (though we weaned at 1yr). It is comforting to her and the surest way to get her to fall back to sleep. She STTN 80% of the time and when she doesn't it is usually due to teeth/milestone...
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  • imageCandT:

    Is he eating solids yet? What time do you feed him those?

      We have a jam packed feeding schedule at night...i can only pump enough during the day to give him two 5 oz bottles which he has at 10 and 2...we just started having daycare add in a solids lunch at 12 last week.  so as soon as we get home (around 5:45) he nurses, then I make dinner, he gets solids during our dinner...and then he generally is ready for bed and nursing again by 7:30-8. 

    I'm sorry that she isn't sleeping well in her crib!!  I hope that the NCSS helps you out soon!!

  • imagedana316:

    I think your DH need to chill a little bit.  Jones will only be this little for an incredibly short period of time, and you can be drunk and carefree later on.  Well, maybe drunk, but never carefree again...I don't think carefree is possible when you have kids.

    This.  It's over.  You will never be "that Abby" again.  I think a lot of guys fight this notion though - and I think even in families where both parents work - dad's life changes a LOT less than mom's.  So they don't get it, to a large extent.  But don't let yourself be pushed into doing something that goes against what you believe to be best for Jones.  You will just end up resentful and there's nothing fun about that!  Tell DH to chill - this is what you BOTH signed up for when you vigorously pursued having a child and were lucky enough to be successful - and for now - this is the way it is.  In the blink of an eye - he (Jones, not DH) will be a big boy and this whole baby thing will be over, forever.   

    ETA: And don't even get me STARTED on your pedi.  There are far more educated baby sleep experts who would tell your pedi - and your DH - that pedi's idea is a real suck-asss one for a 4 month old baby. 

    Wheee!
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