Parenting

dogs 'n kids

So, this is a classic debate: dog vs. kid and there is no swaying one side to the other.  I've witnessed the debates for some time now.  So, without throwing the poster under the bus, I am C&Ping this comment from another board:

We don?t tolerate roughness with the dog.  DS was taught early to be gentle and the two times he was overexcited and too rough he did get time outs.  Unlike a now MIA poster, if my dog growls as my son, my child gets corrected, not the dog.  And so far all is well in toddler and old dog land. 

 

I don?t think the dog is a big fan of DS, but she recognizes his importance in the pack and to her pack leaders.   Good on her for being responsible and working on training and teaching both the kid and the dog but, really?  No correcting the dog for growling at the kid?  If my dog growls at anybody he gets 'corrected'.  Growling is not ok in my book.
promised myself I'd retire when I turned gold, and yet here I am

Re: dogs 'n kids

  • If a dog growls at a child the dog needs to be corrected because the dog is trying to put itself above the child in the ranks.
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  • I think it really depends on the situation.  If the dog growls just because the kid is there?  Yes, correct the dog, but if the dog growls because the kid is pulling its ears or poking it in the eye?  The child should definitely be corrected first.  I would likely say "no growling" to the dog as well, but it's really the only way for the dog to communicate its displeasure short of biting, kwim?
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  • imagehikerbeth:
    I think it really depends on the situation.  If the dog growls just because the kid is there?  Yes, correct the dog, but if the dog growls because the kid is pulling its ears or poking it in the eye?  The child should definitely be corrected first.  I would likely say "no growling" to the dog as well, but it's really the only way for the dog to communicate its displeasure short of biting, kwim?

    This exactly. You need more information before you judge the poster.  

  • imagehikerbeth:
    I think it really depends on the situation.  If the dog growls just because the kid is there?  Yes, correct the dog, but if the dog growls because the kid is pulling its ears or poking it in the eye?  The child should definitely be corrected first.  I would likely say "no growling" to the dog as well, but it's really the only way for the dog to communicate its displeasure short of biting, kwim?

    this 100%

    Josh-10/1/87, Brittany 3/9/91, Mandi 7/26/92, Michelle 9/11/06 image I'M GRAPE JELLY- ALWAYS AROUND & ALWAYS THE SAME If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me. For I must be traveling on now. Because there are too many places I've got to see. -Allen Collins & Ronnie VanZant My favorite verse!
  • imagehikerbeth:
    I think it really depends on the situation.  If the dog growls just because the kid is there?  Yes, correct the dog, but if the dog growls because the kid is pulling its ears or poking it in the eye?  The child should definitely be corrected first.  I would likely say "no growling" to the dog as well, but it's really the only way for the dog to communicate its displeasure short of biting, kwim?

    I have to agree with this.

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  • Ditto hiker.

    My dogs don't growl/snap for no reason. I'll say "Oscar, be nice" but that's the extent of it. If my dogs were growling for no reason, there would be bigger concerns on our hands. My kids have been expected from early on to be respectful of all animals. I have friends who let their kids pull ears and tails because the dog is so laid back--that just is asking for trouble. Kids MUST learn respect towards animals. To be completely honest, if one of my dogs bit one of my kids, my first instinct would be that a child provoked him.

     

  • I would maybe compare this scenario with two kids.  One kid bites the other kid.  The bitten kid hits the biter.

    They both get disciplined.  No biting.  No hitting.  The hitter doesn't get off scot free just because he was bitten.  He may be less wrong, but he is still wrong.

    For me, same goes for the dog.  Growling is not ok.  The dog needs to be reminded of this.  Move away from the kid if he is being rough.  And that is what we do with our dog.  The dog needs to be reminded of where he stands in the pack.  And the dog needs to be reminded of manners if he is growling.

     

    promised myself I'd retire when I turned gold, and yet here I am
  • Okay, I agree that a dog needs to know where they are in the pack, BUT a dog lacks and will always lack the ability to communicate. We can teach our children to use their words, but growling is and will always be a dogs way to warn us. I think it is completely unfair to expect an animal to just sit there and take it. Comparing animals and children is like comparing apples and oranges. They're completely different.
  • Yeah, I don't want to get into a debate.  Growling is communicating and in and of itself, not harmful. 

    I'm just surprised that (by the way it is worded) the OP says nothing to the dog. 

    promised myself I'd retire when I turned gold, and yet here I am
  • I think it just depends on your dog.  My dog has never (in 8 years) been aggressive towards a person without reaon.  If she were to growl it would be because she was hurt or scared, so I don't see why I would correct my dog. 

    One time my girls were rough housing near our dog and dd1 pushed dd2 on top of the dog and the dog nipped her finger.  I found no reason to correct the dog because she only nipped since she was startled. 

    My dog is also a small breed and if she were a much larger dog I would maybe feel differently.  I worry more about children hurting her than her hurting them. 

     

  • I would correct the dog too, without even thinking about it actually.  If I hear a growl, I correct it -- it's my natural instinct too and there isn't much room in that process for thought.  It's instant.  It's usually an "Excuse me! (exaggerated tone) No Cooper!"  The kid would get corrected as well.

  • There is another way of looking at this.  It is the side that the "dog experts" will explain.  A growl is a dog's way of communicating.  It is their way of saying "Leave me alone" or "that hurts" or "I'm scared" or "I don't like this."  For an adult with children, the message the adult should take from a dog who is growling - for any reason - is this "Intervene RIGHT NOW and separate the child and the dog."

    A normal, typical, healthy, etc. dog will growl in warning before biting. A dog who is punished for growling will eventually learn to stop growling and, if pushed to a limit, will just bite with no warning. I don't know about the rest of you, but if any dog that my child is around is feeling scared, mad, cornered, whatever - no matter if the dog is at fault or the child is at fault - I sure as heck want that growl warning so that I have at least a few seconds to intervene.  People who believe their dog will never bite are living in a dream world and an accident that just hasn't happened yet.  Dogs behave like dogs, not humans.  Even the most loving, wonderful, child-friendly family dog has a limit.  Most of us are lucky enough not to ever see that limit reached, but it's important to remember, always, that the possibility is there.

    What I teach my children is that if the dog growls (any dog - our dogs, another dog, etc.), they are to back up and move away IMMEDIATELY.  Move away and tell me what happened.  This is not something that has happened frequently in our house.  When it does happen, we identify why, and we reiterate with the kids what their responsibilities are.  If a dog is frequently growling at a child, then the adults in the home need to acknowledge that that particular dog and that particular child are not compatible.

     

  • I try to remember not to correct the growl because it is the way a dog warns that something is upsetting her.  I do what happymomma does -- tell the kids to back up from a growling dog and find an adult. 
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  • imagehappy_momma:

    There is another way of looking at this.  It is the side that the "dog experts" will explain.  A growl is a dog's way of communicating.  It is their way of saying "Leave me alone" or "that hurts" or "I'm scared" or "I don't like this."  For an adult with children, the message the adult should take from a dog who is growling - for any reason - is this "Intervene RIGHT NOW and separate the child and the dog."

    A normal, typical, healthy, etc. dog will growl in warning before biting. A dog who is punished for growling will eventually learn to stop growling and, if pushed to a limit, will just bite with no warning. I don't know about the rest of you, but if any dog that my child is around is feeling scared, mad, cornered, whatever - no matter if the dog is at fault or the child is at fault - I sure as heck want that growl warning so that I have at least a few seconds to intervene.  People who believe their dog will never bite are living in a dream world and an accident that just hasn't happened yet.  Dogs behave like dogs, not humans.  Even the most loving, wonderful, child-friendly family dog has a limit.  Most of us are lucky enough not to ever see that limit reached, but it's important to remember, always, that the possibility is there.

    What I teach my children is that if the dog growls (any dog - our dogs, another dog, etc.), they are to back up and move away IMMEDIATELY.  Move away and tell me what happened.  This is not something that has happened frequently in our house.  When it does happen, we identify why, and we reiterate with the kids what their responsibilities are.  If a dog is frequently growling at a child, then the adults in the home need to acknowledge that that particular dog and that particular child are not compatible.

     

    I agree my dog's only form off communication is to growl or bark. She will only growl at the kids when she has had enough and is telling them to back off. Therefore I tell my kids to leave her alone and get out of her face. Taking away the dog's voice will only result in a dog whose only defense tactic is to bite, I sure as hell would rather her growl then bite.  

  • imagehappy_momma:

    There is another way of looking at this.  It is the side that the "dog experts" will explain.  A growl is a dog's way of communicating.  It is their way of saying "Leave me alone" or "that hurts" or "I'm scared" or "I don't like this."  For an adult with children, the message the adult should take from a dog who is growling - for any reason - is this "Intervene RIGHT NOW and separate the child and the dog."

    A normal, typical, healthy, etc. dog will growl in warning before biting. A dog who is punished for growling will eventually learn to stop growling and, if pushed to a limit, will just bite with no warning. I don't know about the rest of you, but if any dog that my child is around is feeling scared, mad, cornered, whatever - no matter if the dog is at fault or the child is at fault - I sure as heck want that growl warning so that I have at least a few seconds to intervene.  People who believe their dog will never bite are living in a dream world and an accident that just hasn't happened yet.  Dogs behave like dogs, not humans.  Even the most loving, wonderful, child-friendly family dog has a limit.  Most of us are lucky enough not to ever see that limit reached, but it's important to remember, always, that the possibility is there.

    What I teach my children is that if the dog growls (any dog - our dogs, another dog, etc.), they are to back up and move away IMMEDIATELY.  Move away and tell me what happened.  This is not something that has happened frequently in our house.  When it does happen, we identify why, and we reiterate with the kids what their responsibilities are.  If a dog is frequently growling at a child, then the adults in the home need to acknowledge that that particular dog and that particular child are not compatible.

     

    You put into words what my initial thought was to OP's I-dont-tolerate-growling comment. Very well put.  

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