If your DH has a PhD, MD or some other higher degree please help!

KnockMeUp

I need advice from others who have supported their DH in getting a PhD or MD.

What did/do you do when you 

1. hate where you live but it's where you DH's school or post doc or residency is?

2. are sick of feeling so lonely becuase you keep moving from friends that you have made and family?

3.  are so over being poor?

We moved across the country for his grad school which took 6 years (normal for his field, biophysics) and just moved again for his post doc which will be 2-3 years.  He will have to do another post doc for an additional 2-3 years and we will move again.  Then he hopes to get a faculty position at some university which will require moving again.

What would you do?  Tell him to find a job that he doesn't like but that's closer to family and in the midwest which is where I want to raise my family?  I want him to be happy and he is right where we are.  But I'm not happy and I want to be....help, I need advice if you are going through this too.

 

GypsyEsq

Ugh - I am so sorry.  I cannot answer your question but holy adorable siggy!  "Twin love" - sigh.  Perfection.

amberleeb

1. Well I cried a lot at first then I realized because of his schooling I would be able to be a SAHM or SAHW someday.

2. I worked and every ounce of vacation I got I went home to see my family and friends.

3. I never really felt poor since I was working too, we were just on a major budget.

My DH is from WI and came to MN for Dental School and that is where we met.  Then we moved to VA for a year for a residency, then to Montana for 3 years since he joined the Air Force to help pay for School and Residency,  now he only has 8 months left with the Air Force and he wants to go back to School again for 2 more years to become an Endodontist.  Not sure how I feel about that one.  I just want to move back home to MN.  I told him I would support him as along as his school did not affect me being a SAHM and that we move back to MN before this little one starts school.

Best of luck it is so hard but we just have to think what our DH education will do for us and our children in the future. 

itsmevkb

I am lucky in that my husband does not need to do thing like a post doc or residency.  I am also lucky in that although there was no school in Milwaukee to offer a PhD in his field, he was accepted at Madison.  The commute was hard over the years but not too terrible and heck, it certainly was better than moving.

Our situation is that he's now ABD and looking for a job as a professor.  There are colleges around us but none are hiring right now and so he'll come home everyday and ask me "how do you feel about moving to......" and I'll honestly answer him, I don't want to move.  I really struggle with this being his dream - getting a job as a college professor - and my own dream of raising our kids here in Milwaukee where I grew up, where my family and where I have a job. 

And on that note, my job pays well and I am on track to one day take over the head position which means good pay and I already have decent benefits.  I am not at this point in my life willing to give up all that I have worked for to start over.  My job has supported our family since we got married and will continue to since the starting salary for a professor is not enough for me to be able to quit and stay home.  Sooooo, although I sometimes wish I were the kind of woman who would just pick up and move, the simple fact is I'm not.  I dread when and if my husband is offered a job out of state.

I feel for you, I really do.  I have a friend who went through what you are going through and after the first post doc finished and her husband was looking for a second she said she couldn't take it anymore.  She wanted to stay in Nashville where they had moved and she told him to find a job there.  It wasn't exactly what he wanted but he did it for her sake and the sake of their family/marriage. 

I think you just need to be honest with your dh and really let him know your feelings.  Once you got married and had kids it became about all of you, not just him, so I think that needs to be taken into account.

Sorry this got so long!

epphd

hehe.  DH and I both have Ph.D.s so I can totally relate.

We moved to CT for both of our postdocs, but really it was DH who led the way.  He applied in 3 labs at Yale and 1 at Stanford. That we would be at Yale was pretty much a foregone conclusion, but I went with it because he was much more agressive about pursuing academia than I was.  I could have done a postdoc anywhere. 

That said, we both HATED CT.  HATE.  As in, I think I have PTSD from living there. To make matters worse, my postdoc was a disaster.  And on top of that, we dealt with IF and IVF the entire time.  And, we were BROKE.

There were times I was resentful. There were times I was angry. But we are married.  We are a team.  And on the balance, it paid off because DH had a great experience in a good lab, got done what he needed to get done, and was motivated by wanting to get the eff out of New Haven so that was strategic about looking for faculty positions.

When the time came to apply, he only considered places we both wanted to live.  It was a gamble, but he worked his ass off to be competitive and got job offers at two top schools.  We moved here and have been 100% happy with it.

It is hard being a postdoc.  It is hard being miserable.  And it is hard being the cause of someone else's misery.  But it's part of academia and it's not forever.  Power through and be part of the team.  Sometimes in marriage you have to sacrifice for your spouse- there will be ample opportunity to cash in on it later

IMO, he's put in the bulk of the effort to be strategically positioned - let him go the rest of the way.  To ask him to quit now could permanently damage his upward mobility later on.

Hang in there - feel free to PM if you ever want to vent.  I've so been where you are!

dusk42

It really depends on what your end goal is - be happy sooner with a career adjustment or later with the dream career.  

 

DH and I both have PhDs, but we both hated academia and just wanted jobs that would allow us to be financially comfortable and not require the excessive hours that we had to keep in grad school.  So we got the hell out of academia in general - no postdocs, a non-traditional field for me (editing) and industry for him.  We both have flexible jobs that allow us to spend a lot of time with Avi and do fun things like music, storytime, etc.  It was a big mental adjustment for me to find a job off the tenure track, but I hated my PI so much.  

 

If your (his and your) goal is for him to be tenure track faculty, then you have to figure out how to survive and not wreck your marriage.

sliz

DH is an assistant professor currently. We met in graduate school doing our Ph.D.s (mine is biology, his is mechanical engineering). I finished first and did a post-doc in bioengineering while he finished. We were in Boston, had no kids and lived in a 1 bd which suited us just fine at the time but we knew we wanted to have kids, live in a house with a yard, not be poor post-docs forever etc. and we could not do that in Boston. DH's lifelong dream was to be a professor (he went to grad school so he could do that, I went because I liked school/biology but not with a specific career in mind).....

He ended up getting an assistant professorship at a university in a place where we have NO family or friends (PM me and I will give details but don't want to put that on the board). It is also not a renowned university but he was to be one of the founding professors of his department so he thought it would be a really cool opportunity to do neat stuff and how could he NOT get tenure right? Plus it is a major metropolitan area and we could afford a nice house on just his salary. And given that there were two universities in the immediate area, he was assured that I would be able to find either a research scientist/lecturer position (I wasn't willing to drive an hour to the big name university for my field knowing we wanted to start a family).

Fast forward 3.5 years - I am now a SAHM - We never expected having trouble conceiving or losing our first babies. I never could find a permanent lectureship/research scientist position and was unwilling to continue as a post-doc indefinitely - I could teach as an adjunct with no benefits earning about $500 a month to teach 80 VERY unprepared students with no TA - not worth it - so knowing I wanted to be a mom soon I took some putzy job at his university just crunching numbers/doing stats etc for student affairs. I quit when I got pregnant with Asha about a year ago cause it wasn't worth risking the pregnancy and I didn't want her in daycare (the university here does not have a faculty/staff daycare) away from me.

DH loves/hates his job - he overall likes what he does but his students are belligerent (constantly override his authority in the classroom). He has no support from his dean/chair or superiors and is belittled all the time. The university bureacracy is a joke and he everyday is worried about getting tenure at literally one of the lowest ranked universities in the country. We grossly underestimated the importance of having friends/ family nearby esp with a baby....and DH says if he knew it would be like this he would never have been a professor...he works ALL the time and our fights are about his not helping at home or even watching the baby so I can do the chores.....plus there is always the resentment of my career deadending....the only pro about his schedule is relatively flexible

academic careers are hard on the family....and it is getting harder andharder to get a faculty job - hundreds of applicants for one opening esp in biology - i have friends who got their phds in 2001 and are still post-docs....but in the end you both have to be happy/content for it to work or come to some understanding so you don't resent him...ie he only looks for faculty jobs where u would be okay with living if u support him in his post-doc---which might last more than 6 yrs...and u need a plan in case he doesn't get a faculty offer...

sorry this is so long - its a lot to think about

 

 

KnockMeUp

Thank you all so much for you help and advice.  DH and I have a lot to try and figure out.  Thanks again, it means a lot to me that you all shared your experiences! 

ShannonSky

It's not totally related, but one of my closest friends and I have similar situations with our DHs and talk about it frequently. Both of our DH's work in the defense community and love what they do. There is defense work outside of this area, but the opportunities are not the same. My friend and I would both much prefer to live closer to family. It's tough...the way we've handled it is by making our own families. We try and rely on our friends, and if we're staying in town for a holiday, we make sure to invite any other friends that are staying around. DH is still telling me that someday he'll be able to work remotely and we'll move somewhere else, but he pretty much said we'd only be here a couple years when we first moved down here and...we're still here. I wish I had more advice than that. *hugs* It's hard. 

chocolatechip06

DH is finishing his PhD.  We were living in Boston the past 5 years for that.  He should be defending by the end of the year.  We are back in Toronto now where he will be doing a post doc for another 2 years.  I have told him that once this post doc is done that he needs to find a job-not another post doc.  He is an allied health professional as well, so PhD aside he should be able to find a job in his field.

He let me pick where we are now living (20 minutes from my parents) in the suburbs, rather than downtown next to the university since we went to Boston for his school.

I would tell him what you want and see if you can come up with a compromise.  You both need to be happy in your everyday lives.

DavezWife

I met Davez after he had finished med school, so I can't say anything about the hard times. But I will say that the other side is nice. We're tighter with money now that we've pissed it all away on IF treatments and such, and our house value has tanked (as has everyone elses) but the financial freedom it provides, the JOB OPPS and security it gives us... well, it's very nice.

Having known him for 10 years now, I can honestly say I'm GLAD I didn't know him when he was studying and doing his residencies.... blech. My heart goes out to you all. But keep your eye on the prize.... school may be for 5-10 yrs, but it'll last a lifetime!

crystalgirl

1. I just reminded myself that it was temporary.  Not much else you can do!

2. New places are always tough, but try to find some ways to meet people.  Even if you don't make long-lasting friendships, you'll have people to hang out with and stay social.

3. This had only started to get difficult for me... We were married in college and moved directly from college for grad school.  So, it was a long time of being poor, but it was the only thing we had known, really.  It does start to wear on you, of course.

Just for reference, DH did his PhD and post-doc in the same place; we were there 8 years.  Then we moved for his permanent job and have been here for 4 years.  I'd really try to see if he can do his post-doc (and hopefully find his job) in the region of the country where you want to live.  We still hope to return to Texas, but for DH, there aren't a lot of options there without taking a step down career-wise.  It's where we'd both like to be, but we're trying to make the best of things.  We do like where we live at this point, and a few of our grad school friends have also relocated here, so that helps.

I would not put pressure on him to take a job he doesn't like, though.  I just don't see how anything positive can come of that, even if he goes along with it.  He has put a lot of work into this and also made sacrifices.  I don't think it's fair to then not allow him to get the reward (the job he wants) for his efforts.  Doing a PhD is a huge, emotional, crazy thing -- this not just from the spouse of someone with a PhD but also from someone trying to finish one herself.   

It will get so much better, and you are almost there!  Hang in there.

MayDayGirl

OH my gosh I cannot even imagine! I thought 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency has sucked!  We only have about 1/2 year left and then it's done! 

 

I am so sorry...I cannot imagine having to support your DH through so much!

 

I wish I had more to offer!

AlissaCell701

Well, my DH doesn't have a Phd or an MD, but he does have a job that he works very long crazy hours (he works for an NFL/MLB/team) .He is working when everyone is playing. He works VERY long hours, lots of weekends, holidays, XMASS, New Years, SuperBowl (that was last year) ect. He hasn't had 2 days off in a row since Memorial Day weekend! 

We have moved once from Boston to Miami and we could be moving again at the end of this season to Tampa. There are very few teams and when positons come up (which is rare) we sort of have to take it.  It's horrible. He is never home and when he is; he can be grumpy cause he is tired and doesn't really want to do anything but crash on the TV. Which I totally get and I try and make sure eveyrthing is done for him. Food shopping, laundry, iorning ect. SO that he doesn't have to think about anything and just enjoyh being home.  And now add a 3 month old who was born at the during his busiest time (August when football and baseball are all going on at the same time) he hasn't honestly gotten to spend a ton of time with him.

I have been in your exact postion. When I didn't have children it was sooo much worse. I spent many nights alone, cause I didn't know anyone and it was sooo hard to meet people. Now with Jake I have been going out joining playgroups, attending as many mommy and me classes that I can and Jake just keeps me busy. 

I also knew though what I was getting into when I married him, I knew he wouldn't always be with the team in MA and we would have to move. I always thought we could go back to MA sometime. I now realize that that will prob never happen. I don't have any real adivce for you except that I know how you feel and can understand how frustrated you are.  

perry7285

my thoughts:

DH is a post-doc in theoretical chemistry and i'm a grad student in theoretical chemistry. the job market is rough for theory jobs, so we will basically end up living in whatever city we can both get a job in--the decision will kind of be made for us if we both get an offer in a particular city. if there's no city that offers a job for both of us and only one gets to follow their career choice--well, that will be a really tough position! but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

for now, we're both doing what we like to do, and the only problem is that we're poor and financial worries are a HUGE source of stress for us. i often wish that one or both of us was content to take some boring, unfulfilling, high-paying job so that we wouldn't have to worry about money. but the fact of the matter is that both feel fulfilled by the jobs that we're doing now, which unfortunately have low salaries. i guess my mentality is that neither one of us would be happy giving up theoretical chemistry--really, DH wouldn't be DH if he was content to follow a career that he found unfulfilling, and i love him for who he is. so that's the mentality that i follow to stay content with all of the stresses of having a scientist husband.

i know this is all really hard. hugs and best of luck to you and your family. 

kjcullen

Sorry that you are going through this... I can completely relate. My DH and I are both veterinarians- but I graduated 10 years ago. He went back to school just before we got married, so our entire married life has been school, then internship, and now another internship and hopefully residency.

 I have accepted that him persuing his goals of further training is going to make him happy- If I asked him to stop he'd probably resent me and our marriage would suffer. But it took me a while to get to that point.

I am also sick of being poor- I make decent money- but since he gets paid dirt- we have to live off of my salary which means I will never be a SAHM. And his school debt is huge. And we are hours from any family.

It is really hard to balance work and family. On one hand you need to be happy together- and if you can achieve that as a couple- you can be happy where ever you live- because if you are miserable in your marriage then it doesn't matter how close your family is near by. I hope you can find the perfect balance.

Is there things locally that you can do to get involved, feel more like you belong?

itsmevkb

crystalgirl:

He has put a lot of work into this and also made sacrifices.  I don't think it's fair to then not allow him to get the reward (the job he wants) for his efforts. 

 I hear this argument a lot, mainly from my in-laws, and I have to respectfully disagree.  Has my husband made sacrifices? Yes.  Have I and our kids made sacrifices?  You bet!  The question is for how much longer are we expected to sacrifice for the sake of him getting the job he wants?  If his dream job means moving someplace I will not be happy then I'm sorry, it shouldn't be his dream job.  I shouldn't be expected to sacrifice my happiness for that of my husband and I hope like heck he would never ask me to do that.

Also, I think this sort of thinking diminishes the work the other spouse is doing.  What makes my husband's career more important than my own?  I have worked long and hard to get where I am in my career so does all that just go out the window because my husband gets a PhD?

I guess I'm really working through my own issues here but I just bristle when people seem to think that women should still have to sacrifice everything for their husbands.  It's not like we are still living in 1950.