I have to get this off my chest

MayorMcCheese000

I think that unless you do not have insurance or you are in fact dirt poor, that it is a TRAGEDY to not get your child braces if they require them. I really do not understand, as a parent, how you could be happy sending your teenager off into adulthood with a jacked up grill, which probably greatly impacts their fragile self-esteem. I am paying for braces for SD right now and it is seriously not that expensive and they have really flexible payment plans if you need them.

Consider this a flameful, a pabst, a confession, whateva, I just had to get that off my chest!

belle204

Alrighty then. Thanks for sharing. ;-)

Andrewsgal

Sorry but the quote we got for braces for DH was over $6000 because they also had to pull a tooth. We have dental innsurrance but it is not covered. We do have it, but he does not want braces. That being said there are a whole lot of people that can not afford an extra $300 a month for their kids teeth to be straigh especially those that are living pay check to paycheck. I have several friends who both parents work they are by no means dirt poor but would have a really hard time coming up with an extra 200-300 a month. Braces is a luxery not a must.

MelandJeff

100% agree

MayorMcCheese000

Andrewsgal:

Sorry but the quote we got for braces for DH was over $6000 because they also had to pull a tooth. We have dental innsurrance but it is not covered. We do have it, but he does not want braces. That being said there are a whole lot of people that can not afford an extra $300 a month for their kids teeth to be straigh especially those that are living pay check to paycheck. I have several friends who both parents work they are by no means dirt poor but would have a really hard time coming up with an extra 200-300 a month. Braces is a luxery not a must.

See I don't think it is a luxury, I think it is a thing you MUST do for your childen, even if that means picking up a part time job to pay for it. Adult braces also are more expensive than kid braces I believe. But seriously, they will let you pay $100 for years until it is paid off. I just think it is so horrible to see an otherwise beautiful young person be ashamed of their mouth or be afraid to smile and lose that self confidence.

eta: And most insurance does not cover ortho for adults (like in your case) but still does for children up to age 18 or something...so it's different.

AngelaSue

I agree with you. I'm a dental assistant so teeth is always the first thing I notice about people and I always feel bad when I see high schoolers and their teeth are all messed up, even college age kids. Makes me sad. My parents invested money in giving me a beautiful smile and I'm thankful for that, especially because growing up money was always tight for my parents.

goodheartedmommy

I agree with you. Like it or not, a mouth full of awful teeth is going to be nothing but a hindrance in the corporate world. My teeth aren't perfect any more, but they're still pretty darn straight. Most dental insurance sucks, so you're always going to pay quite a bit out of pocket, but I think most parents can swing it. My parents did, and money wasn't just growing on a money tree in their back yard. I do think it's really sad for those that just can't afford them. Forget health insurance, dental coverage is a JOKE! 

Goose51504

Agreed!

jessicaclare

I agree. A few imperfections are one thing, but for children that have really bad teeth, they are a must, not a luxury. Like it or not, first impressions count in the working world. Having reasonably nice looking teeth is an important part of a first impression. Is that vain? Maybe, but that doesn't make it untrue.

ridesbuttons

This post makes me sad.  There are so many families who can barely afford food and rent.  Let's make those people feel that much worse because they simply cannot find an extra $100 forever to straighten their kids' teeth.

In a perfect world, dental care and braces would  be free and available to every child.  That would be ideal.

MayorMcCheese000

ridesbuttons:

This post makes me sad.  There are so many families who can barely afford food and rent.  Let's make those people feel that much worse because they simply cannot find an extra $100 forever to straighten their kids' teeth.

In a perfect world, dental care and braces would  be free and available to every child.  That would be ideal.

Well I think people that can't afford food or rent wold probably fall under the "dirt poor" category and were excluded from my post as you can see. I am more so referring to the people who can afford it, or could afford it with some minor adjustments or sacrifices and still choose not to.

sunandsand

Not every place will let you make payments.  When BIL (a teen) went to get them they wanted half of 4k up front. His mom works but she just couldnt swing it. 

Purrrfect433

Ahhh, so they can just feel bad about being "dirt poor".

r9stedt

I agree........

 

That being said, if I am in the same financial position I am right now when L requires braces, I don't know how I will do it.

Am I dirt poor?  No.   Do I have insurance?  Yes.   Do I have to save every penny just to make ends meet?   Very, very much so.   Do I think exH will help me pay for braces? Doubtful, as he won't even help me pay for daycare. 

I hope that I will not have a car payment by that point in my life, so I will be able to swing it then.  

I don't think it is a black and white thing like you make it.    

MayorMcCheese000

sunandsand:

Not every place will let you make payments.  When BIL (a teen) went to get them they wanted half of 4k up front. His mom works but she just couldnt swing it. 

But I guess that is my point, is $2000 that hard to come up with? Could she have sold something, adjusted her withholdings, saved $84 a month for 2 years and THEN gotten them for him? Probably, she just decided not too. I guess the real discrepancy then is just how you view braces, as a luxury or as a necessity. I view them as a necessity which means I would do whatever it would take to get them for DC, other people see it differently and that is ok.

MayorMcCheese000

Purrrfect433:

Ahhh, so they can just feel bad about being "dirt poor".

Yeah, I do think if you are at the point that you can't pay your rent or buy food, you probably should feel bad about that.

 

MayorMcCheese000

I am post-whoring my own post

The caveat for this was when it was time to get SD going for her braces, BM resisted. We could not understand why the hell she would not want DD to have braces?!?! (Her teeth are REALLY crooked.) Come to find out, it was as simple as she did not want to pay for it. This is a chick that takes college classes for fun (working on a 10 year associates degree at this point,) takes Yoga classes, takes art classes etc. She was not willing to make any financial adjustments that would impact her lifestyle so SD could have braces. I think that is gross and tragic. BTW, DH and I are fully paying for them.

r9stedt

MayorMcCheese000:

But I guess that is my point, is $2000 that hard to come up with? Could she have sold something, adjusted her withholdings, saved $84 a month for 2 years and THEN gotten them for him? Probably, she just decided not too. I guess the real discrepancy then is just how you view braces, as a luxury or as a necessity. I view them as a necessity which means I would do whatever it would take to get them for DC, other people see it differently and that is ok.

YES!   $2000 is hard to come up with!   I don't have something to sell that is worth $2000!   Other than my car, and I am upside down in that, so i wouldn't be able to do that, same goes with my house.     Please, if you can tell me where I can save an extra $84 a month on my 22k salary, and $122 child support, I would love it.   LOVE it.   If I picked up a part time job, then I would be spending more in daycare.    

AggieCouple

I find the whole concept of perfect teeth pretty ridiculous.  Who do we know are born with perfect teeth?  Almost no one.  

What exactly *are* "perfect" teeth, anyway?  It's an arbitrary concept of beauty concocted by lobbying dentists to make them one of the richest professions in the Western World.  In our natural state, there is no such thing as perfect teeth.  I know plenty of people with imperfect teeth with beautiful smiles.

I most definitely do not have "perfect" teeth, and H thinks I'm beautiful anyway.  He has told me since we started dating that his favorite thing about me is my smile.  Who else's opinion of my teeth matters, then?   Since dating someone who loved my smile despite their less-than-wonderful teeth, I smile bigger and you know what?  I like myself a lot more in pictures since the day I started dating H.

I think indirectly telling your child they must live up to an arbitrary standard of physical beauty is much more detrimental to their self-esteem than telling them they are beautiful no matter what their teeth look like.  To me, it's  equivalent to telling your daughter she needs to be size 0 (a media-confirmed standard of beauty).  Braces, for vanity, are a form of unnecessary self-mutilation.  Having metal brackets in your teeth for 4 years than a metal rod inserted into your gums for the rest of your life is simply not natural.

I think if my child, when old enough to make this decision for herself/himself, REALLY wanted to go through unnecessary pain and discomfort for the sake of vanity, I might consider it because in that case, it might really be affecting their self-esteem. Or, if it might present some sort of physical complications in the future (like cross bites can lead to TMJ), then yes, maybe.  

But just so my kids can have someone else's idea of a perfect smile?  NO WAY.

 

*getting off my soapbox* 

summerbrideDC

Purrrfect433:

Ahhh, so they can just feel bad about being "dirt poor".

This. The "you're going to be judged by your teeth" sentiments, whether true or not, are going to be hurtful to people who would do anything to be able to fix their kids' teeth, but are too impoverished to do anything about it.  

I know it isn't the intent of the post or comments and perhaps someone that needy isn't online on a message board, either, but I think it would be incredibly hurtful to see those sorts of comments if you were truly unable to provide braces for your child, knowing that people are going to judge them as they go forward in life. 

I do agree w/ you that IF you can really afford it, and chose not to provide it, you're a pretty selfish parent.  But I think there is a very grey area around what "can afford" it means to different people.  

MayorMcCheese000

Aggie, I don't to quote you b/c it is so long... and I do somewhat get what you are saying but if your kids teeth looked like this, would you feel them same? Just curious.........

AggieCouple

I would let my child make that decision for himself/herself.  I would not tell him/her directly or indirectly through my actions, that I thought his/her smile was ugly enough to go through years of pain, and possibly surgery, to be corrected.  It just seems cruel to make that statement to your child.

 

ready2go

AggieCouple:

I would let my child make that decision for himself/herself.  I would not tell him/her directly or indirectly through my actions, that I thought his/her smile was ugly enough to go through years of pain, and possibly surgery, to be corrected.  It just seems cruel to make that statement to your child.

 

have you had braces?  It was a pretty big NON-event in my life in terms of pain and discomfort.  I don't remember any pain...I'm sure there was SOME but not enough to even have remotely traumatized me

AggieCouple

ready2go:

have you had braces?  It was a pretty big NON-event in my life in terms of pain and discomfort.  I don't remember any pain...I'm sure there was SOME but not enough to even have remotely traumatized me

 No, to be honest, I have not.  But H and his sisters did, and they do remember pain, and H said if given a choice, he would have opted not to have them.  

I'm watching my nieces and nephews go through it right now.  My niece had to have multiple surgeries, and basically had her lower jaw reshaped by slow, painful degrees.  Pretty horrific.  The entire time, she was begging her mom NOT to do it.  I must admit, her personal experience has really made me reevaluate the whole issue and probably shapes my current opinion.  

If it was minor, I would assume the pain isn't a big deal.  But if it *is* minor, I would definitely hesitate to do it unless pressed by THEM.

I'm glad you had a positive experience, but as I've said, I'm not against it if they wanted it for themselves.  But it's simply not a decision I would make for them.  

Yodajo

One thing to consider is that braces are not always just about esthetics.  Orthodontics correct more than just crooked teeth.  Bad occlusion (or "bite"), jaw constriction, etc are health issues that can have complications down the road like headaches, back pain, etc and should be addressed, if possible. 

Purrrfect433

MayorMcCheese000:

Purrrfect433:

Ahhh, so they can just feel bad about being "dirt poor".

Yeah, I do think if you are at the point that you can't pay your rent or buy food, you probably should feel bad about that.

 

  Normally, you absolutely tickle me with your irreverence. You are coming off as a terribly elitist snob in this post, though. I am both broke AND a bleeding heart-liberal, so take my opinion for what it's worth. However, I think you could have made your point about braces without being so dis-compassionate towards people living in poverty.

MrsBNDO

One of my dear friends is an orthodontist and while in school, the students (who are already dentists) have to work at the school clinic.  They perform routine orthodontia care (including braces) for free or vastly, vastly reduced prices to those in need.  All the students are supervised of course, so it's not like anyone is getting sub-standard care; especially if someone is fortunate enough to live near a top-tier school like Michigan.  My point is that if a family cannot afford braces, at least there are a few options out there.  While I don't think it's a tragedy to not outfit a child with braces, in my home, if my boys need them, they will get them no matter what.

AggieCouple

You know, I'm going to take everything I said back.  Not that I don't feel this way right now, and I do feel strongly about it, but I have changed my mind about parenting issues MANY times, after I had gotten to the point where making a decision regarding said issue was actually relevant.

Example: I was always emphatic about NOT paying for my kids' college tuition, because that's how my parents did it.  But, I changed my mind pretty quickly once I actually *had* kids and the thought of their struggling financially later, or being in debt over it, was simply not appealing.  H still laughs about it, how I made a complete 180 the day ML was born.

Since I have no children at an age where braces may be needed, I don't feel qualified to voice an opinion on this matter. 

r9stedt

Purrrfect433:

  Normally, you absolutely tickle me with your irreverence. You are coming off as a terribly elitist snob in this post, though. I am both broke AND a bleeding heart-liberal, so take my opinion for what it's worth. However, I think you could have made your point about braces without being so dis-compassionate towards people living in poverty.

agree.  Except I am not a bleeding heart liberal! 

Carol*Brady

I think it's a must but DH's parents didn't...they paid his way through UVA & U of Michigan totally but didn't fork out the $ for braces.  They have a dentist phobia so never brought their kids unless they had an issue.  Now DH is 35 & we could spend the money but there is probably no point.  DH is happily married & very successful in his career--and his self-esteem is just fine.  He had a rough teen years I am sure but I think the red hair, skinny, freckles & horrible skin had more to do w/ it than the teeth.  That being said, I've had friend's comment that he's hot (& of course I think so)...so even w/ jacked up teeth, you can turn out fine )  That all being said, my girls will get them if needed & see a dermatologist!

Halo79RN

another high and mighty nestie preaching perfection & an ideal world post.  

 

I get your frustration with the BM wanting to spend her money on other things.  I get that.... but to make a general assumption that anyone and everyone can and should slap braces on their child's teeth  unless "dirt poor" is just sooooo far from reality... especially in this economy.  

my parents struggled to do it for me, not for cosmetics, but b/c I had a serious jaw issue.  If my kids' teeth are grossly deformed or they have jaw issues, I'll do everything in my power.  But just crooked teeth ?  depends on our financial situation.  dh never had braces or orthodontic care.... in time , as he grew, his teeth fell into alignment (mind you he never was super crooked, but crooked for a time).   and I do think it's wrong to assume every parent should or is in the financial situation to make it happen just b/c they look like they could or aren't "dirt poor".   most of the time it's the "dirt poor" who get the benefits of free services... the upper middle class who can afford it... and the lower middle class who is stuck either sacrificing things they shouldn't have or having to go without.  

 

MayorMcCheese000

Purrrfect433:

MayorMcCheese000:

Purrrfect433:

Ahhh, so they can just feel bad about being "dirt poor".

Yeah, I do think if you are at the point that you can't pay your rent or buy food, you probably should feel bad about that.

 

  Normally, you absolutely tickle me with your irreverence. You are coming off as a terribly elitist snob in this post, though. I am both broke AND a bleeding heart-liberal, so take my opinion for what it's worth. However, I think you could have made your point about braces without being so dis-compassionate towards people living in poverty.

Nope you and r9 are right, it was a bad choice of words and it was coming from a place of frustration with BM. She is always crying "poor" yet still seems to always manage to find the $ to take ridiculous classes and put her wants first. I should of just said "really poor" or "truly poor." I am not always good at expressing myself on a message board and sometimes I just gotta say sorry when sorry is due.

Purrrfect433

On the behalf of the poor and huddled, unwashed masses, I accept your apology

shouldbworkin

Eh, it's not really something I feel so strongly about.  I had a crap a$$ dentist as a kid who said I didn't need braces b/c my teeth were straight (wrong!).  I ended up being referred to an ortho at 27 y/o b/c I had pain from my bite being off.  I was lucky and only needed them for one year, with insurance.  But, it was worth it and I will get them for my kids even if it's just for costmetic purposes (although, DD will need them for the same reason I did and DS has a cross bite, so I think we're in for them regardless).  I do think they make a difference later on in life, but that's just based on my experiences.