North Dakota Babies

"Babywise" Book

I had never heard of this book before, but this article does not give me a good first impression!

Just FYI.

Has anyone heard of this or even read the book?

Re: "Babywise" Book

  • On Becoming Babywise? Yes my SIL used it and swears by it....
  • Yep, it's one I have recommended regularly on here.

    ETA:  It's all a matter of how you choose to parent your child.  I follow a lot of what is recommended in Babywise, but I'll tell you that if she's hungry before their recommended 2.5-3 hr timeframe, she's been fed.  I would never look at the clock & say "sorry S, you just ate 1.5 hrs ago, wait it out."  But to each their own.

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  • I'm no fan of CIO & feeding schedules (yet anyway, that could change) but my understanding is that they updated this book & the newer version doesn't recommend using those methods on newborns anymore.
  • This isn't answer really but... I was recently talking to a friend from HS (K), who is also a new mom.  We were talking about meeting up with a third friend - we were all really close in HS - I'll call her C. Well, K **refuses* to let her son near C becasue C uses the babywise method on her two children.  Her youngest and K's baby are maybe a month apart.  K said it is child abuse to only feed your child every four hours at such a young age and C should be arrested.  Tongue Tied So, yes, I gather it is a bit controversial. I haven't read it myself. 

     

     

     

     

  • My sister was dead set on using it with her son, & I was sick about it after reading info on it. After the first couple of weeks, she quit when her son was a screaming mess. Our hospital actually sent us home with a pamphlet warning against the dangers of using "Babywise". I was shocked to see that it's a big enough deal that the hospital would send home literature about it. The AAP has even come out with a statement against it.
  • Yeah I've heard nothing but bad things about it, I guess it is about the opposite of Attachment Parenting which is what I do. I'd rather nurture my baby then train them.
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    ~Kimberly & Eric~ April 21, 2008 ~Tensing Pen ~ Negril, Jamaica ~ My Blog: One Sunset at a Time
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  • imageeamaines:

    Yep, it's one I have recommended regularly on here.

    ETA:  It's all a matter of how you choose to parent your child.  I follow a lot of what is recommended in Babywise, but I'll tell you that if she's hungry before their recommended 2.5-3 hr timeframe, she's been fed.  I would never look at the clock & say "sorry S, you just ate 1.5 hrs ago, wait it out."  But to each their own.

    That is exactly what I think is so crazy about the book. How can you expect an infant to eat on a fixed schedule or withhold a feeding? I do like the eat, play, sleep routine & I think it's good to establish routines. It sounds like it's working for you. My sister now loosely follows the book, mostly just following the pattern like you do, but it was heartbreaking when she was following it rigidly. I think it's like anything else. You had to make modifications to make it work for you and YOUR baby. They are all different, & no book is going to adequately tell you what is best for YOUR child.
  • imageeamaines:

    "sorry S, you just ate 1.5 hrs ago, wait it out."  But to each their own.

    My SIL does that. We all get to hear a baby crying because its starving and everyone tells her so and she just says, "he has to wait x amount of hours."
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    ~Kimberly & Eric~ April 21, 2008 ~Tensing Pen ~ Negril, Jamaica ~ My Blog: One Sunset at a Time
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  • imagedani_girl08:
    imageeamaines:

    Yep, it's one I have recommended regularly on here.

    ETA:  It's all a matter of how you choose to parent your child.  I follow a lot of what is recommended in Babywise, but I'll tell you that if she's hungry before their recommended 2.5-3 hr timeframe, she's been fed.  I would never look at the clock & say "sorry S, you just ate 1.5 hrs ago, wait it out."  But to each their own.

      loosely follows the book, mostly just following the pattern like you do, but it was heartbreaking when she was following it rigidly.

    I will admit, I did follow it quite well until I had a personal meltdown b/c she wasn't hungry 2.5 hrs after her last feeding & I was like "you are supposed to be hungry."  That's what the book says.  After that day, we were on a loose schedule & that works for us-she did sleep a 9 hour night when she was only 8 weeks old Stick out tongue

  • I read it and it made me sick.

    It basically looks like they went back and added 'if your baby is really hungry, you need to feed him' as a disclaimer in several parts of the book. So the book says only feed them on your parent led schedule. Also put them to bed and wake them up on your parent led schedule. Crying for 10-15 minutes is totally acceptable (they never said to wait until at least 4 months for any sleep training)

    The rest of the book seems to just be bashing attachment parenting. And if I didn't already know what AP was, I wouldn't recognize it from their description.

    They basically say if you're AP your baby will have frequent night wakings until age 2 at least and will be a codependent mess. all BS, if you ask me.

    If it wasn't a library book I would have thrown it out. I wish I hadn't read it. There was a section where it described three children and their distinct crying patterns before they fell asleep. I almost started crying when I read it.

    Also, for a book about getting baby to STTN they don't spend time on how to put your LO down, they only talk about the feeding schedule. it's wacko.

    Can you tell I didn't like it? haha 

    Siggy Deleted Due to Internet Stalking. Mama to Q, born July 2010
  • I literally finished the book last week.  A friend of mine that swears by it gave it to me as a gift.  Honestly I have no problems with the newest edition of it BECAUSE it doesn't state anything (or very much) as an absolute.  It repeatedly says over and over again that these are suggestions/guidelines and you need to find what works for you.  For me, AP sounds like hell (based on the descriptions I've heard from certain people) and if I felt like I had to do it I would have not had children.  Also if I felt like I had to do AP hard core to have successful breast feeding then I probably wouldn't even try to breast feed.  Sounds extreme but when someone tells you there's only one right way to do it it doesn't make you want to adopt anything they are saying, which is what one woman that is a La Leche League member did at an all day breast feeding thing I went to a few weeks ago.

    One thing that the Babywise book tells you about the first two weeks that is identical to the AP & La Leche League recs is that in those first two weeks turn the clock towards the wall and feed as needed. Then it suggests that you monitor the feedings and see where you're at to see if you can find a pattern in them and discourages snacking, saying it will not add to your milk supply and possibly decrease it.  It also suggests if you're trying to "schedule" feeding then to work towards it gradually (like 10 min at a time) and if it doesn't work then take a break and try again later.  To me part of the idea was trying to find your baby's cues not just feeding at every hint of discomfort (whether food related or not) which is the impression I've gotten about AP and strongly disagree with.

    The issue of colic is brought up in the book, either as a whole chapter or close to it.  Their point is that if you constantly offer a baby with a stomach problem food, it is the food that is irritating their stomach and you need to give the belly time to rest.  Reminded me a lot of what people are told when they have an intestinal bug and can't keep food or water in their system, so on the surface it makes sense.  Now how practical it is, I have no idea honestly.  But I can see with an issue like colic trying anything for a few days to try to give the baby and yourself some relief.

    My guess is that just like AP, people take Babywise to the extreme, such as was suggested by waiting to feed a baby (which may have been in a growth spurt) because it wasn't "time".  I know that a huge part of my dislike of AP comes from the extremism that I've observed.  Anything in extremes is bad, which I think most people can agree with.  When I mentioned to my friend who's a pediatrician that I was reading Babywise it didn't raise a red flag to her (she's also a member of the AAP) except to tell me to use it as a guide and not take any one source literally (which included AP related books because I did ask her).  Then again she knows me well enough (almost 20 years now) to know that I pull from different sources and then form opinions.

    At this point I need to work my way through the new edition of La Leche League book "The womanly art of breastfeeding" which I got free at the all day breast feeding thing I went to.   I started it already and like the tone of the book and feel like if I can take parts from it and the Babywise book that I'll be more confident as a new mom.  I'm also working on Happiest Baby on the Block (actually reading it first b/c its a library book).  I know we all have limited time these days but if you're going to spend time reading one book you might as well read another to get a different opinion.

  • imageBlondeBeachBride08:

    They basically say if you're AP your baby will have frequent night wakings until age 2 at least and will be a codependent mess. all BS, if you ask me.

    Honestly the people I know that have done hard core AP do have kids that are a co-dependent mess.  Obviously this isn't the only issue as there's little discipline in these kids lives also.  But that was actually what turned me away from AP, not Babywise or anything else.  I couldn't deal with a 4 year old that had to have what they wanted immediately (usually food related) or have a massive tantrum and then be so full from snacks that they didn't want dinner.  Her mom literally said, "well that's how she breast fed so why should I expect her patterns to be any different?"  A friend of mine that's a teacher is also against AP because of the extreme forms she's observed in older kids.  There's definitely more to it than just AP ideals in all cases. 

    They recommended starting to get baby to sleep through the night (5 hours was the length they gave) at ~ 6 weeks in the edition I read, which is the newest.  So it looks like if you're going to read it, don't get an old one from the library, get a new one from the bookstore.  Then again I feel the same way with any pregnancy books because the info does get outdated quickly in some cases. 

    And honestly these kids could have been brought up with any extreme ideas in parenting and had the same problems.   Including Babywise.

  • imagedani_girl08:
      They are all different, & no book is going to adequately tell you what is best for YOUR child.

    ITA with THIS! Exactly and 100%.  

    Not to say that books aren't good resources, but the aren't manuals to be followed to the letter either. 

    can you tell I'm salty at someone IRL on this topic? LOL

  • imagesillybiochemist:

     To me part of the idea was trying to find your baby's cues not just feeding at every hint of discomfort (whether food related or not) which is the impression I've gotten about AP and strongly disagree with.

    I can assure you that shoving a boob in a baby's mouth at the first hint of discomfort is NOT AP. AP is about responding to the baby's cues, but I am not going to argue that with someone that doesn't even have a child yet.

    I read a TON of books while I was pregnant and the way I parent I can honestly say I never got from a book. I was more of an attachment parenter then anything else before I even knew what AP was. I just happened to stumble  upon some  AP info one day a realized that my core parenting methods we very much AP-like. I suggest you parent your child based on your own methods and not some book.

    imagesillybiochemist:

    Honestly the people I know that have done hard core AP do have kids that are a co-dependent mess. 

    And honestly these kids could have been brought up with any extreme ideas in parenting and had the same problems.   Including Babywise.

    Yes there are extremes to any method, but you already must have it in your head that all AP is extreme. Sounds like you have already catogorzed AP all together. All I can say you should really wait until you are actually have a child before you determine how you will parent.

     

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    ~Kimberly & Eric~ April 21, 2008 ~Tensing Pen ~ Negril, Jamaica ~ My Blog: One Sunset at a Time
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  • imagelindeenwedding:
    [ All I can say you should really wait until you are actually have a child before you determine how you will parent.

     

    I completely agree!


  • They recommended starting to get baby to sleep through the night (5 hours was the length they gave) at ~ 6 weeks in the edition I read, which is the newest.  So it looks like if you're going to read it, don't get an old one from the library, get a new one from the bookstore.  Then again I feel the same way with any pregnancy books because the info does get outdated quickly in some cases. 

    The one from the library is the current version. It still belongs in the garbage, IMO.

    We're not all going to agree about stuff like this but what Babywise tells you about AP is total crrap.  

    Siggy Deleted Due to Internet Stalking. Mama to Q, born July 2010
  • I agree with Kimberly.  I was pulled to AP because it fits me and my personality.  If there were no books on it, I would still parent the same way because that is who I am.  I am aware that this may be the reason Kash is still not STTN but I personally feel that it is just as important to night time parent as it is to during the day.  He is 15 months old and we still don't have a schedule around here.  A routine, but no schedule.

    As for all children belonging to AP moms being co-dependent, I don't know that this isn't the case for the baby trained children as well.  I have several friends (and sisters) that have children that were trained from birth that act this way.  I think most children in a certain age range are all about the instant gratification.  And if over nurturing my kid is the worst thing I do to him, I am okay with that.

    I personally believe that I will see the results of my parenting style when Kash is older and I am okay with that too.  I also personally feel that the "peace" I would have now from training is not worth the cost of what it would later do to his personality/temperament.

    Having said all of this, I think it is important to parent the way that comes natural to you whether it is "AP" or "Babywise".  There were weak moments when I would attempt to take the advice of others and "try" training and would eventually give it up because it didn't feel right.  Always go with your gut.

  • imagelindeenwedding:
     

    I can assure you that shoving a boob in a baby's mouth at the first hint of discomfort is NOT AP. AP is about responding to the baby's cues, but I am not going to argue that with someone that doesn't even have a child yet.

    Honestly this was how a La Leche League member described the process as she was giving a 30 min seminar on AP.  Didn't endear me much to her and her method of parenting but if it works for her then great.  I was also taken aback that she described it this way because I thought it pulled out some of the more commonly criticized issues of AP.  She wasn't a great spokes person of the technique honestly.

     

    imagelindeenwedding:
     

    Yes there are extremes to any method, but you already must have it in your head that all AP is extreme. Sounds like you have already catogorzed AP all together. All I can say you should really wait until you are actually have a child before you determine how you will parent.

     

    I'm more against the extreme of any parenting technique because I don't think it takes into account the child's personality and temperament. 

    Actually, I have an arm's reach co-sleeper that's literally sitting my bed right now so that the dogs can get used to it being there since that's where we're planning on having the baby sleep for the first few months.  We might have considered a literal co-sleeper in the bed but both DH and I flop in bed so it didn't seem safe for our situation.  I'm also planning on buying a Ergo baby carrier (since I only want to buy one carrier for me and DH) to carry the baby in part for my own convenience of getting stuff done around the house but also for bonding.  Did I mention I'm breastfeeding as long as I can get things going?  Isn't that all part of AP?

    Honestly I have no problem with certain aspects of AP just like I have no problem with certain aspects of Babywise.  I know I let hormones kick in with my first post which I should have edited and I do apologize for. Part of what got me upset about the original article that was posted (not the original post) was that most of the people in the comments of the article had never read the book but wanted to censor it.  Which would upset me if it was a parenting book or not, honestly.  Whereas Morgan's comments were from reading the book and having a different opinion, which I respect.  Honestly I truly thought she had read an older version of the book.  Obviously we read it differently but I'm sure we have the same goal of trying to do what's best for the little one which is all that really matters (assuming it doesn't lead to failure to thrive/similar issues).

    I definitely know I'm a schedule-type of personality.  And if I can't have the kid on some type of schedule (at a reasonable age like 4-6 months not from day 1) it will not be good for my mental health, honestly.  By schedule I don't mean the kid has to eat at X, Y, & Z times but more like I can expect about this many feedings during the day and a feeding at night (like a 5 hr time span, not necessarily 10 hours).  But you're right in saying I won't know what will work for me until it happens.  

  • imagesillybiochemist:

    I'm more against the extreme of any parenting technique because I don't think it takes into account the child's personality and temperament. 

    Actually, I have an arm's reach co-sleeper that's literally sitting my bed right now so that the dogs can get used to it being there since that's where we're planning on having the baby sleep for the first few months.  We might have considered a literal co-sleeper in the bed but both DH and I flop in bed so it didn't seem safe for our situation.  I'm also planning on buying a Ergo baby carrier (since I only want to buy one carrier for me and DH) to carry the baby in part for my own convenience of getting stuff done around the house but also for bonding.  Did I mention I'm breastfeeding as long as I can get things going?  Isn't that all part of AP?

    Honestly I have no problem with certain aspects of AP just like I have no problem with certain aspects of Babywise. 

    If the LLL wasn't a good spokes person about AP then you probably shouldn't rely on what she said to be very credible.

    Yes those are all parts of AP. Which is why I find if funny that people go bashing it but yet have AP tendency themselves. I am not hard core AP in the least bit, nor did I learn AP or any of my parenting practices from a book. I parent based on what is right for my child and my family, and those methods just happen to fall under AP and it sounds like some of what you plan to do does as well.

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    ~Kimberly & Eric~ April 21, 2008 ~Tensing Pen ~ Negril, Jamaica ~ My Blog: One Sunset at a Time
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  • I have heard bad things about Babywise, that is why when I was interviewing a pedi and she recommended it, I ran the other way! I do consider myself AP but I also think people take it to the extreme. I got scared of the AP board when people told a mom basically that she should hold her baba ALL. THE. TIME. And like it, and if she wants to spend time with her husband, the two of them can cuddle with the baby. I think balance is important and it's hard to be an effective parent when you can't even go to the bathroom by yourself, or spend time alone with your spouse.
  • there is actual names for your style of parenting? where the hell have I been??  I actually had to google AP and Babywise, I really need to come out from under this rock that I live once and a while!!

     

  • imageMrsAzull:

    there is actual names for your style of parenting? where the hell have I been??  I actually had to google AP and Babywise, I really need to come out from under this rock that I live once and a while!!

     

    Haha Nicole.  I feel the same way.  I guess my style could be called a mix between Winging It and Whatever The Hell Works.

  • imageMrsAzull:

    there is actual names for your style of parenting? where the hell have I been??  I actually had to google AP and Babywise, I really need to come out from under this rock that I live once and a while!!

     

    Haha Nicole.  I feel the same way.  I guess my style could be called a mix between Winging It and Whatever The Hell Works.

  • imageludyjanboltz:
    imageMrsAzull:

    there is actual names for your style of parenting? where the hell have I been??  I actually had to google AP and Babywise, I really need to come out from under this rock that I live once and a while!!

     

    Haha Nicole.  I feel the same way.  I guess my style could be called a mix between Winging It and Whatever The Hell Works.

    Haha! So true Shannon! 

    image
    ~Kimberly & Eric~ April 21, 2008 ~Tensing Pen ~ Negril, Jamaica ~ My Blog: One Sunset at a Time
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