Two things:
1. What is wrong with saying you don't want to go back to work after having the summer off? I love teaching, but I would not go on FB and post about how I am so excited to go back and leave my two girls in day care. Get over it.
2. This is a debate between teachers and non-teachers, which makes it pointless. You will have NO idea what my job is like until you have done it. Just like I have no idea about yours. Saying that you work your butt off is not saying that you work harder than someone else.
Oh, and one more redundant thing. I work 10-12 hours a day, plus some on weekends. I get paid for 7 hours a day M-F. Do other professions do the same? Sure. But I'm not talking about those.
That being said, I get tired of teachers who b!tch and b!tch about how
little they get paid-do something else then. You knew it going into it. But enjoy those summers!! ;-)
The only thing that bothers me about teachers complaining about going back to work is that I would do anything to be one of them. Of course I don't want to leave DS during the day, but I desperately need a job, and I have a degree in education. When my teacher friends complain on facebook, I just want to say, "can I have your job then?". But I do understand that being a teacher is not just a 40 hour/week job, it's more like 60+. I know that other professions work just as hard.
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I guess I'm not technically a "teacher" because I don't work in a school, but I am a preschool teacher in a daycare center. We don't get any time off to plan cirriculum, or prevent burn out. I would enjoy a couple months off here and there to get stuff set up and take time for myself. But preschool is only taught at daycare centers, not in schools, so I guess this is my only option because I love preschoolers!
I can see your point to an extent, but I assume you chose your job and your choice was to not be a teacher...whereas teachers choose to be teachers. So if you want the "great hours" of a teacher, you could always become one.
Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
I guess I'm not technically a "teacher" because I don't work in a school, but I am a preschool teacher in a daycare center. We don't get any time off to plan cirriculum, or prevent burn out. I would enjoy a couple months off here and there to get stuff set up and take time for myself. But preschool is only taught at daycare centers, not in schools, so I guess this is my only option because I love preschoolers!
We have 3 preschool classes at my k-8 school. There is a Head Start class, a regular half day preschool, and a special needs preschool.
I'm a teacher, and I love my job. Do I love my time off, yes of course, but it isn't as much as most people think. I'm not going to argue whose job is harder, who is smarter. I chose this job, and I'm great at it. I have enough post graduate credit hours to be a practicing physician, and I have the debt to prove it. But, I don't see many doctors having to buy their own copy paper, or (and this is my favorite) buy their own toilet paper because the schools ran out of money last year.
I have a class of 45 kindergartners this year. That is 45 4 and 5 year old. It is unlike anything I have ever seen. If you had to spend 35 hours a week in a classroom with 45 kids, you would need the occasional day off also.
Brandi~I don't have much to say other than you sound like a petulant brat.
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Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
My point REALLY went way over your head.
Do I think getting a degree in English is easy peasy? No. Do I think it's so difficult that she had a right to treat a student as though he were stupid for asking a question? Absolutely not. Her degree doesn't make her better than anyone. THAT WAS MY POINT.
It is sad when a good teacher loses her job due to our economy. It isn't sad when a teacher who berated students does though.
I don't think I missed the part where you blatantly ridiculed getting a degree "IN ENGLISH."
I have a Master's in Teaching and a business degree.
I taught for a while, and now I work full time in a corporate job. I can speak for both.
Let me tell you - teaching was 1000x harder than what I do now. It is physically and emotionally draining, and you need a break. Plus, I get paid over twice as much for the job I do, then I ever did with teaching. I have better benefits as well. Much, much, much better.
People who think teachers are overpaid and/or don't have to work to earn it have no idea what they are talking about.
Yeah, most of my teacher friends have to have summer jobs. Imagine that for a second. Going to school for four years, being forced to go to school for another 2 to get your masters, and then flipping burgers during the summer so you can pay your mortgage. It's not uncommon.
Go work at a school for a year and then you can judge.
"I ridiculed it because she thought it made her completely entitled to looking down on people.? She specifically said that.
" This is the best part, lol. But somehow it's ok for you to look down on someone with a job at kohls; since you were lovin' that you will make twice her salary. Oh and btw,I was a permanent sub for a year and while most teachers might be more compassionate than me I couldn't stand the question "is this going to be on the exam"? It was always from the kids who just wanted to get by and didn't want to take the time to learn anything. All they wanted was basically the questions to the test so that they could pass. I totally see why she was annoyed.
Spoken like someone who is not a teacher! Sorry but every time a school vaca rolled around, I was so worn out that I needed it very badly! Having the summer off keeps teachers from burning out. Also, when I was teaching, I was doing work all summer long, planning curriculum, doing trainings, setting up my classroom, collarborating with other teachers, and reaching out to parents. Its not as much of a vaca as you think.
I don't feel bad for us either, but we do NEED it.
Guess it depends on the teacher but my SIL is one and admits to not doing anything over the summer. Plus, the mediocre salary comment is nothing compared to say a CPS worker that works 12 months and gets paid way less. My friend was one and got paid 30k a year where SIL gets paid 46k which really is for only working 9 months out of the year. Sorry, but still no sympathy!
agreed! I respect teachers and am thankful that someone ones to do that job but as a social worker I don't feel their job is any harder then mine. Yes so you spend some of your income to purchase school supplies. Well guess what? I spend some of mine too because sometimes families have needs and there just isn't a resource. It's not something that I have to do or am forced to do but I do it because how could I go to bed at night and know that a senior is sitting there without life saving medications or purchase a couple uniforms for a child so that they can attend school or help a family who is $100 short of their rent due to circumstances beyond their control so they don't have to sleep in their van. We all make choices in our careers. I am glad for the choice I made.
From miscarriages, a diagnosis of a bicornuate uterus, and fibroid removal surgery...It's been quite the journey but it was all well worth it.
Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
Dude, I haven't done a scantron test since a regents exam in high school. And FWIW, engineering and science majors don't just have to "memorize facts" - in fact, a lot of our tests were open books, or provided the formulas. What makes an intelligent engineer is in knowing how to figure out problems and applying the correct solution - which is incredibly difficult. I should scan one of my old Probability and Stochastic Processes tests and see if anyone here could even figure out what was going on.
I respect the work of most teachers. However, I grew up in NYC - where teachers pretty much are just babysitters all day, get paid as much as I did starting out, get tenure for incredible job security, get a pension - a PENSION! And a significant one! - and certainly don't even work a 40 hour week. 8:30 - 3pm, not including their prep period and lunch period. I worked as a sub, and pretty much every teacher got in at 8am, prepared their classroom for the day, used their prep period to do all their grading, and that was that. Sorry, but that was a pretty sweet job. Wish I knew that when I went for my degree!
My MIL even got paid overtime for attending training classes that took place outside the school day, since the union contract demanded it. $100 an hour. She retired safely into a six-figure income, and gets about $70k a year JUST from her pension, and she was not in a NY school her whole career.
So yeah, when she or my mother would complain about returning to work, I'd roll my eyes.
Anytime I hear someone complain about anything related to teachers, I feel compelled to ask: didn't you have the choice to become a teacher also?
People complain about their jobs from time to time regardless of what industry they're in. I'm sure you are guilty of having complained about your job before.
Frankly, your attitude towards teachers is appalling.
Apparently my thoughts here were not communicated clearly. First of all, I need to say: I am a teacher! Second, what I was trying to say was when I hear people getting on the "oh teachers have it so easy, they get off early, they have all summer off" tirade, then I say to them, "So why don't you teach? I mean if we have it so good then why didn't you make the choice to become a teacher? I love my job, but it should be known that most days I am hear 2 - 3 hours after my contract ends. A lot of nights I take work home. The last two weeks, while I was on my summer "vacation" I spent in my classroom getting things ready. I spent 2 weeks in June at a reading academy, which I chose to attend for no extra compensation from my district. Yes, it's a charmed life we life what with having all of our vacations dictated for us, getting 20 minutes to eat lunch, and only having sporadic restroom breaks. Last year I taught from 10 until 3 with no breaks. We are the only profession not required to ensure a 15 minute break every 4 hours. My point was that instead of complaining about how great teachers have it, people should hush up because we all had the choice of what profession we chose and each of them have advantages and disadvantages.
Don't most people complain about going back to work after a vacation? Isn't everyone entitled to feel sad that their time is going to be spent working again? I'll be sad to leave DD this year, but I love going to work. Remember, we send our kids to someone else so we can take care of yours. I know if you work you send your kids away, too. My point is that we're not just teaching. I've been a nurse, counselor, entertainer, advocate, moral coach, investigator, custodian and many others during my short career so far.
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Anytime I hear someone complain about anything related to teachers, I feel compelled to ask: didn't you have the choice to become a teacher also?
People complain about their jobs from time to time regardless of what industry they're in. I'm sure you are guilty of having complained about your job before.
Frankly, your attitude towards teachers is appalling.
Apparently my thoughts here were not communicated clearly. First of all, I need to say: I am a teacher! Second, what I was trying to say was when I hear people getting on the "oh teachers have it so easy, they get off early, they have all summer off" tirade, then I say to them, "So why don't you teach? I mean if we have it so good then why didn't you make the choice to become a teacher? I love my job, but it should be known that most days I am hear 2 - 3 hours after my contract ends. A lot of nights I take work home. The last two weeks, while I was on my summer "vacation" I spent in my classroom getting things ready. I spent 2 weeks in June at a reading academy, which I chose to attend for no extra compensation from my district. Yes, it's a charmed life we life what with having all of our vacations dictated for us, getting 20 minutes to eat lunch, and only having sporadic restroom breaks. Last year I taught from 10 until 3 with no breaks. We are the only profession not required to ensure a 15 minute break every 4 hours. My point was that instead of complaining about how great teachers have it, people should hush up because we all had the choice of what profession we chose and each of them have advantages and disadvantages.
Most jobs hat require a college degree require you to work late, or take work home. I'd rather take work home, actually, than be forced to stay late at my job, but that's how it goes.
15 minute breaks? LOL - I'm lucky if I can get away from my desk to go pump. And yeah, with the exceptions of Fridays for me, most people in my company eat a sandwich while working. I'm getting fed up with my job, so I've recently been eating outside while meeting my DH, but the higher ups want us working towards deadlines. And there are ALWAYS deadlines.
I didn't become a teacher because it seems like 50% of college graduates are teachers. I wanted a job. If I would have been guaranteed a job teaching in NY when I graduated, I would have done that major in a heartbeat. When I subbed (which isn't the same), I had a great time, and actually got paid great money considering I worked 4.5 hours a day - got $125 per day.
I think it irritates people when teachers complain about going back to work because most people don't have a two month span to rejuvenate. Most people would love a chance to relax for an extended period of time, even if one had to take the occasional refresher course. Then again, most teachers I know rent beach houses with their families over the summer, or go on road trips across the US - people with only two weeks of vacation a year can never do this, especially since they are usually forced to take vacation when their kids are off from school.
This post has just turned into an argument over whose job is harder. Yes, everyone works hard and no one else can understand it. Resorted to a horrible idiom - the grass is always greener.
I'm used to my career being unappreciated by one and all - I sue people for a living.
Eh, my sister makes six figures, has a company car, a company cell phone, and gets bonuses. This year she is going on an all expenses paid Baltic Cruise, and last year she went to Ireland. All this for selling 110% of her quota. I give 110% of myself for my job all year, too, but I am not eligible for anything like those perks...I get my summers off. A couple of years ago, she missed her quota by $5000, and missed out on the company reward. I didn't begrudge her complaints for missing one of her job's perks. All jobs have their perks and drawbacks, and I think we all complain when those perks draw to a close.
I know this will proly get flamed, but whatever...
I am SO sick of all my teacher friends b!tching about how they have to go back to work. You just got off 2+ freaking months!!! Plus, you get off a ton during the year!!
I'm sorry I do not feel sorry for you. I understand you have a tough/important job but so do a lot of other people. I dont want to hear your constant complaints on facebook! Put on your big girl/boy panties and SUCK IT UP! I would kill for summers off!!!
Vent over... flame away
I don't know what tons of extra time you think we have during Sept.- June. I barely have time to make any appointments for Dr. or any house maintence because if I am able to take off I have to spend tons of time leaving sub materials, which isn't worth it to take off.
Everything has to be planned around the school year, like my wedding and pregnancy. If I didn't have my LO during the summer I wouldn't have had paid maternity leave. And whoever said something about vacations during peak season was right. I'd much rather vacation in the spring or summer when I could actually afford a nicer vacation.
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So because you teach, you know all teachers are completely cool and not crappy people? Funny. You guys hang tight.
I once had a teacher in HS ask a friend if he had any more "stupid" questions because he asked "Will this be on our final?" Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life. What REALLY gave me pleasure is when I ran into her at her new place of work last year. Kohl's. At the jewelry counter. Plus knowing when I graduate I'll make twice what she makes.
Once a teacher wrote "Duh" on my paper because I misplaced a positive sign while balancing an equation.
At teacher at my high school told my brother he was a loser because he wasn't sure if college was for him. And when he retaliated she said "Go ahead and try to sue me, I have tenure." She was later fired for doing coke with a couple students and God knows what else.
I have lots more stories. But my main point is-there are teachers like those I mentioned because, like some people here, they think they are the only hard-working under appreciated people on Earth. Try having someone call you every name in the book when you wipe their ass or try to strangle you for bathing them. For trying to HELP them while they are sick. Everyone complains about their job but it doesn't give them the right to look down on other people who have to work too.
Sorry you have to tie shoes, though.
Wow! I do not want to have your child in my classroom. I certainly would not look forward to dealing with a parent that has such a disdain for my profession and clearly does not value education. I am very sorry you had bad experiences with some teachers, there are bad eggs in every single profession.
Could your attitude have possibly had an effect on how you were treated? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and need to learn that actions have consequences. It seems there may have been a self-fulfilling prophecy at play here. You expected to be treated like crap, so that is how you were treated.
Lucky for you, most teachers are dedicated and professional, so they will be able to overlook a deplorable parent with obvious bias and just teach the child to the best of their ability. They will just have to add respect to the list of moral behaviors that now need to be taught my educators since some parents can't seem to accomplish that task anymore.
I know this will proly get flamed, but whatever...
I am SO sick of all my teacher friends b!tching about how they have to go back to work. You just got off 2+ freaking months!!! Plus, you get off a ton during the year!!
I'm sorry I do not feel sorry for you. I understand you have a tough/important job but so do a lot of other people. I dont want to hear your constant complaints on facebook! Put on your big girl/boy panties and SUCK IT UP! I would kill for summers off!!!
Vent over... flame away
I don't know what tons of extra time you think we have during Sept.- June. I barely have time to make any appointments for Dr. or any house maintence because if I am able to take off I have to spend tons of time leaving sub materials, which isn't worth it to take off.
Everything has to be planned around the school year, like my wedding and pregnancy. If I didn't have my LO during the summer I wouldn't have had paid maternity leave. And whoever said something about vacations during peak season was right. I'd much rather vacation in the spring or summer when I could actually afford a nicer vacation.
She's referring to winter break, spring break, easter break, three days for Thanksgiving, every government holiday plus some.
Let's assume teachers work a full eight hour day, even though the school day isn't that long, but they also have to do prep work, etc (included in the schools I subbed at, plus a paid lunch). Let's also assume that non-teachers work a 40 hour week - again, most people work more.
Hours teachers work, assuming a 180 day school year = 1440. Hours non-teachers work = 2000 (taking away vacation time).
So non-teachers work an extra 70 days, equating to 14 WEEKS, not to mention the not-included vacation time usually has to be taken when the kids are out of school during the year - so there's rarely time to allow for a nice long family vacation.
Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
Dude, I haven't done a scantron test since a regents exam in high school. And FWIW, engineering and science majors don't just have to "memorize facts" - in fact, a lot of our tests were open books, or provided the formulas. What makes an intelligent engineer is in knowing how to figure out problems and applying the correct solution - which is incredibly difficult. I should scan one of my old Probability and Stochastic Processes tests and see if anyone here could even figure out what was going on.
I respect the work of most teachers. However, I grew up in NYC - where teachers pretty much are just babysitters all day, get paid as much as I did starting out, get tenure for incredible job security, get a pension - a PENSION! And a significant one! - and certainly don't even work a 40 hour week. 8:30 - 3pm, not including their prep period and lunch period. I worked as a sub, and pretty much every teacher got in at 8am, prepared their classroom for the day, used their prep period to do all their grading, and that was that. Sorry, but that was a pretty sweet job. Wish I knew that when I went for my degree!
My MIL even got paid overtime for attending training classes that took place outside the school day, since the union contract demanded it. $100 an hour. She retired safely into a six-figure income, and gets about $70k a year JUST from her pension, and she was not in a NY school her whole career.
So yeah, when she or my mother would complain about returning to work, I'd roll my eyes.
Sorry, I am calling BS on this one. I am a teacher and I am not going to deny the benefits. I am also not going to say that I spend ridiculous amounts of my salary on my job, or dedicate hours to planning. I did that the first few years of teaching, but have redefined my priorities and realized that it is a job. If my family members can come home from their jobs without bringing work home, so can I. I do not feel the need to be a teaching martyr. I use my time at school very wisely, that does not make me lazy.
What offends me about your post is the perpetuation of the myth of lazy and overpaid teachers. I have a hard time believing you worked as a sub since you declared that teachers are simply babysitters. Anybody who has walked into the school sees the amazing things teachers accomplish on a daily basis. I have brought my friends and siblings who work in other professions into my classroom. They each reacted the same way, like a deer in the headlights. Engaging 25 students of different abilities, language capabilities, and motivations is really a skill. It is evident with non-teachers try to make presentations to a class. An educated person does not necessarily make a good teacher.
As for your money stats, $100 an hour is simply not true or possible. I also highly doubt the six figure salary, although the cost of living in NY is higher than the rest of the country so it might be right after a teacher reaches seniority. As for things like insurance, it depends on the district. Some districts definitely have impressive insurance, most do not. When people attack teachers, they generally try to find the richest district in the state and use that as the standard. I think if most people took a look at averages across the states, the job would not seem so out of line with other professions.
As for job security, I have taught for 8 years and been laid off 10 times. Give me a break. I have gone back to school on three different occasions to earn a different certification in order to keep my job. The requirements and protected areas keep changing, so I keep doling out cash and updating my certifications just to keep my job.
Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
Dude, I haven't done a scantron test since a regents exam in high school. And FWIW, engineering and science majors don't just have to "memorize facts" - in fact, a lot of our tests were open books, or provided the formulas. What makes an intelligent engineer is in knowing how to figure out problems and applying the correct solution - which is incredibly difficult. I should scan one of my old Probability and Stochastic Processes tests and see if anyone here could even figure out what was going on.
I respect the work of most teachers. However, I grew up in NYC - where teachers pretty much are just babysitters all day, get paid as much as I did starting out, get tenure for incredible job security, get a pension - a PENSION! And a significant one! - and certainly don't even work a 40 hour week. 8:30 - 3pm, not including their prep period and lunch period. I worked as a sub, and pretty much every teacher got in at 8am, prepared their classroom for the day, used their prep period to do all their grading, and that was that. Sorry, but that was a pretty sweet job. Wish I knew that when I went for my degree!
My MIL even got paid overtime for attending training classes that took place outside the school day, since the union contract demanded it. $100 an hour. She retired safely into a six-figure income, and gets about $70k a year JUST from her pension, and she was not in a NY school her whole career.
So yeah, when she or my mother would complain about returning to work, I'd roll my eyes.
Sorry, I am calling BS on this one. I am a teacher and I am not going to deny the benefits. I am also not going to say that I spend ridiculous amounts of my salary on my job, or dedicate hours to planning. I did that the first few years of teaching, but have redefined my priorities and realized that it is a job. If my family members can come home from their jobs without bringing work home, so can I. I do not feel the need to be a teaching martyr. I use my time at school very wisely, that does not make me lazy.
What offends me about your post is the perpetuation of the myth of lazy and overpaid teachers. I have a hard time believing you worked as a sub since you declared that teachers are simply babysitters. Anybody who has walked into the school sees the amazing things teachers accomplish on a daily basis. I have brought my friends and siblings who work in other professions into my classroom. They each reacted the same way, like a deer in the headlights. Engaging 25 students of different abilities, language capabilities, and motivations is really a skill. It is evident with non-teachers try to make presentations to a class. An educated person does not necessarily make a good teacher.
As for your money stats, $100 an hour is simply not true or possible. I also highly doubt the six figure salary, although the cost of living in NY is higher than the rest of the country so it might be right after a teacher reaches seniority. As for things like insurance, it depends on the district. Some districts definitely have impressive insurance, most do not. When people attack teachers, they generally try to find the richest district in the state and use that as the standard. I think if most people took a look at averages across the states, the job would not seem so out of line with other professions.
As for job security, I have taught for 8 years and been laid off 10 times. Give me a break. I have gone back to school on three different occasions to earn a different certifications in order to keep my job. The requirements and protected areas keep changing, so I keep doling out cash and updating my certifications just to keep my job.
Well, let's do some math.
180 days in a year for a teacher = 1440 hours worked, assuming they get paid for an eight hour day (they work less, so you can almost assume that they get paid more hourly). I have been told by my MIL herself that she makes six figures, so on the absolute lowest end, that would be $100,000. Let's round that to equalling $70 per hour. When she went to conferences/training outside what the union has in their contract, it's doubletime. When her pension was figured out, I think it took her highest paying years into account. Obviously not all teachers make this - but there's a reason why teachers there are loathe to retire.
So you're right, I estimated too little. It's $140/hour. And I'll assume you never set foot in a NY public school - they're usually madhouses. I subbed for a class whose room was right next to the cop who would sit in the front hall - because the cop was often needed to keep the class in order, what with kids running rampant, throwing things, blatantly ignoring the teacher. I feel BAD for those teachers... but even they admit that no one learns anything in those classes. They might be able to teach for two hours a day, while the rest of it is crowd control.
She's referring to winter break My DH gets almost the same break as me. I'm only off for 1 week, not 2 during this time, spring break, easter break we don't get both. It's still just a 1 week period., three days for Thanksgiving one of these is a make up for working conference nights, unpaid, every government holiday plus some No, we aren't off all gov't holidays. I work many days the mail doesn't come.
Let's
assume teachers work a full eight hour day, even though the school day
isn't that long, but they also have to do prep work, etc (included in
the schools I subbed at, plus a paid lunch). Let's also assume that
non-teachers work a 40 hour week - again, most people work more.
Hours teachers work, assuming a 180 day school year = 1440.
Plus the amount of time we have to be there before & after the kids
leave, in-service days. Usually 3 days before school starts & 1
day after it ends. Hours non-teachers work = 2000 (taking away vacation time).
So
non-teachers work an extra 70 days, equating to 14 WEEKS, not to
mention the not-included vacation time usually has to be taken when the
kids are out of school during the year - so there's rarely time to allow
for a nice long family vacation My DH works then, too. We won't be taking long trips..
I'm
sorry to seem like I'm nitpicking here (Oh, something else I do in my
job), but yes we get the summer off. Our other vacation times aren't
that different to someone with a decent salaried job.
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She's referring to winter break My DH gets almost the same break as me. I'm only off for 1 week, not 2 during this time, spring break, easter break we don't get both. It's still just a 1 week period., three days for Thanksgiving one of these is a make up for working conference nights, unpaid, every government holiday plus some No, we aren't off all gov't holidays. I work many days the mail doesn't come.
Let's
assume teachers work a full eight hour day, even though the school day
isn't that long, but they also have to do prep work, etc (included in
the schools I subbed at, plus a paid lunch). Let's also assume that
non-teachers work a 40 hour week - again, most people work more.
Hours teachers work, assuming a 180 day school year = 1440.
Plus the amount of time we have to be there before & after the kids
leave, in-service days. Usually 3 days before school starts & 1
day after it ends. Hours non-teachers work = 2000 (taking away vacation time).
So
non-teachers work an extra 70 days, equating to 14 WEEKS, not to
mention the not-included vacation time usually has to be taken when the
kids are out of school during the year - so there's rarely time to allow
for a nice long family vacation My DH works then, too. We won't be taking long trips..
I'm
sorry to seem like I'm nitpicking here (Oh, something else I do in my
job), but yes we get the summer off. Our other vacation times aren't
that different to someone with a decent salaried job.
From the 2009 - 2010 NYC public school calendar (omitting the days teachers have to show up when kids do not):
9/28 (Monday) - Yom Kippur 10/12 (Monday) - Columbus Day 11/11 (Wednesday) - Veterans Day Two days for Thanksgiving, though I think it's a half day that Wednesday before 12/24 through 1/1 - Winter recess 1/18 (Monday)- MLK day 2/15 - 2/19 - Midwinter recess 3/29 - 4/6 - spring break 5/31(Monday) - Memorial Day
I get off Memorial, one day at Christmas and New Years, and one day at Thanksgiving.
Teachers here get four long weekends, another random day off, and three full week plus off (almost two weeks at Christmas, depending on when it lands) during the school year, aside from summer break.
Then she boasted about having a BS. IN ENGLISH. She thought she was super intelligent because she learned to interpret poetry. I told her she was probably just too dumb to learn science or something so she decided to read for the rest of her life.
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
Dude, I haven't done a scantron test since a regents exam in high school. And FWIW, engineering and science majors don't just have to "memorize facts" - in fact, a lot of our tests were open books, or provided the formulas. What makes an intelligent engineer is in knowing how to figure out problems and applying the correct solution - which is incredibly difficult. I should scan one of my old Probability and Stochastic Processes tests and see if anyone here could even figure out what was going on.
I respect the work of most teachers. However, I grew up in NYC - where teachers pretty much are just babysitters all day, get paid as much as I did starting out, get tenure for incredible job security, get a pension - a PENSION! And a significant one! - and certainly don't even work a 40 hour week. 8:30 - 3pm, not including their prep period and lunch period. I worked as a sub, and pretty much every teacher got in at 8am, prepared their classroom for the day, used their prep period to do all their grading, and that was that. Sorry, but that was a pretty sweet job. Wish I knew that when I went for my degree!
My MIL even got paid overtime for attending training classes that took place outside the school day, since the union contract demanded it. $100 an hour. She retired safely into a six-figure income, and gets about $70k a year JUST from her pension, and she was not in a NY school her whole career.
So yeah, when she or my mother would complain about returning to work, I'd roll my eyes.
Sorry, I am calling BS on this one. I am a teacher and I am not going to deny the benefits. I am also not going to say that I spend ridiculous amounts of my salary on my job, or dedicate hours to planning. I did that the first few years of teaching, but have redefined my priorities and realized that it is a job. If my family members can come home from their jobs without bringing work home, so can I. I do not feel the need to be a teaching martyr. I use my time at school very wisely, that does not make me lazy.
What offends me about your post is the perpetuation of the myth of lazy and overpaid teachers. I have a hard time believing you worked as a sub since you declared that teachers are simply babysitters. Anybody who has walked into the school sees the amazing things teachers accomplish on a daily basis. I have brought my friends and siblings who work in other professions into my classroom. They each reacted the same way, like a deer in the headlights. Engaging 25 students of different abilities, language capabilities, and motivations is really a skill. It is evident with non-teachers try to make presentations to a class. An educated person does not necessarily make a good teacher.
As for your money stats, $100 an hour is simply not true or possible. I also highly doubt the six figure salary, although the cost of living in NY is higher than the rest of the country so it might be right after a teacher reaches seniority. As for things like insurance, it depends on the district. Some districts definitely have impressive insurance, most do not. When people attack teachers, they generally try to find the richest district in the state and use that as the standard. I think if most people took a look at averages across the states, the job would not seem so out of line with other professions.
As for job security, I have taught for 8 years and been laid off 10 times. Give me a break. I have gone back to school on three different occasions to earn a different certifications in order to keep my job. The requirements and protected areas keep changing, so I keep doling out cash and updating my certifications just to keep my job.
Well, let's do some math.
180 days in a year for a teacher = 1440 hours worked, assuming they get paid for an eight hour day (they work less, so you can almost assume that they get paid more hourly). I have been told by my MIL herself that she makes six figures, so on the absolute lowest end, that would be $100,000. Let's round that to equalling $70 per hour. When she went to conferences/training outside what the union has in their contract, it's doubletime. When her pension was figured out, I think it took her highest paying years into account. Obviously not all teachers make this - but there's a reason why teachers there are loathe to retire.
So you're right, I estimated too little. It's $140/hour. And I'll assume you never set foot in a NY public school - they're usually madhouses. I subbed for a class whose room was right next to the cop who would sit in the front hall - because the cop was often needed to keep the class in order, what with kids running rampant, throwing things, blatantly ignoring the teacher. I feel BAD for those teachers... but even they admit that no one learns anything in those classes. They might be able to teach for two hours a day, while the rest of it is crowd control.
However, that is not how overtime works in teaching. We do not get paid time and a half or double time. There is a set workshop rate. For a new teacher, it is slightly more than their hourly wage. For a teacher with seniority, it is significantly less. In my district, it is $28 an hour. That is on the high end in my area. I have teacher friends in other states, and their workshop pay works exactly the same way. I am certain NYC teachers make $30-45 for workshop pay, nowhere near even your low number. IF your MIL made $100,000, I am also certain she has at least a Masters +30, or a doctorate, and has taught for 15-20 years. If that is the case, I do not feel paying a person with a doctorate and experience $100,000 is out of line.
As for the calculations of hourly pay, we are paid for 6 hours of work a day. However, those 6 hours are used actually working. There are no water, bathroom, or smoke breaks. Many times there are no lunch breaks either, mine is spent planning with co-workers. Some teachers keep students in their classroom during that time. We do not socialize with co-workers during school hours, time together is spent working. You will not find a teacher on The Bump from September to June. I think if most people took an honest look and subtracted the amount of time wasted in an office setting, the days would be about equal.
It seems you found the calendar for NYC schools. If you are interested, you can take a look at the contract, so you will be more informed when making statements. It is the last contract from 2009, but if anything, I am sure gains have been lost with any new contract. Teachers are making sacrifices like every other profession
It seems you found the calendar for NYC schools. If you are interested, you can take a look at the contract, so you will be more informed when making statements. It is the last contract from 2009, but if anything, I am sure gains have been lost with any new contract. Teachers are making sacrifices like every other profession
I know the contract - I hear about it all the time from my mother who is still employed as a NYC teacher. Their benefits are still awesome in comparison to what most non-teacher, non-executives have. The mere fact of having a PENSION is incredible in this day and age. I chose that calendar because I attended NYC schools when I was younger, and it was easy to find online.
My MIL worked for Yonkers. I can actually search for her salary online, it's public information - she was around $112k per year.
112k a year after working 20 years, yes, isn't spectacular. But couple that with job security, sometimes a buyout if you are retirement age, and a pension that isn't offset by SS, while having all the vacation perks... I wish I gave it more thought when I was in high school.
I've had plenty of teachers who will spend 30 minutes talking about a concept and then not even bother putting it on the exam. And even if it was a dumb question, she was completely out of line and unprofessional in pointing it out in front of his classmates.
Just because it's not on the exam doesn't mean it's not important to know. We have lots of standards that have to be taught but you can't possibly test on them all. Students would be in class forever.
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The sad thing is, there are SO many crappy teachers because they are underpaid and the only real benefit is summers and holidays off. Our education system needs to change drastically in the US.
I sent the salary link lookup by teacher to my husband. He looked up his old spanish teacher from high school, whom he thought was just "okay."
$144,000 the year he retired. Which explains taxes in NY.
She was a rude, ugly biitch with a clearly gay husband and that's why she treated everyone like crap.
My eyes could not possibly roll back any farther in my head...
And, to Jaime S.: You are right, I wasn't being fair to Science majors. What Brandi said (that an English major only majored in English because she was too stupid to major in Science) is what hit a sore spot with me, because we happen to hear that opinion all the freaking time. In my attempt to argue that English majors are just as intelligent as other majors, I wrongly put down another major. Honestly, though, many (not all) of those majors DID party all the time in my dorms, and they were the same a-holes who made comments like Brandi did, implying that English was some kind of Mickey Mouse major. (The #1 response to "I'm an English major" is "What're ya gonna do? Teach?!!" followed by mocking snickers/laughter. It gets old.) Really, I WAS working twice as hard as most of them (perhaps just because I took my major more seriously than they did, but I'd still love to see one of them tackle a syllabus for a Literary Theory course! hehe). Maybe I just lived with a-holes.
I'll admit that I've never done well in science classes. But I'm great at and passionate about reading, writing, research, critical thinking, etc. So doesn't it make sense that I major in English and be the one to teach our kids how to write an argumentative essay, or put their thoughts into intelligent, comprehensible written English? (A skill that, incidentally, they will need to know in order to do well in any major, including science, business, etc.). English majors don't choose English because they're too stupid in something that the rest of the world sees as more useful. They happen to think that literature and the various studies surrounding it (like I said, history, women's studies, communication, etc.) are just as, if not more, important in our society.
Anyway, I do respect science majors for the work they do. I, however, could not respect the ones I lived with who just relied on "open book" or memorizing crap to get by (and they all had scantron tests at my school, hehe), who mocked my major just because I'd be making $100K less than them a year or because they mistook it for majoring in "dabbling in poetry." Like I said, I guess I just took my major and my work more seriously than those specific kids. Because I'm a smart cookie. And an English major. And the two are not mutually exclusive. So, I apologize if I belittled Science majors in my defense of English majors.
She was a rude, ugly biitch with a clearly gay husband and that's why she treated everyone like crap.
My eyes could not possibly roll back any farther in my head...
And, to Jaime S.: You are right, I wasn't being fair to Science majors. What Brandi said (that an English major only majored in English because she was too stupid to major in Science) is what hit a sore spot with me, because we happen to hear that opinion all the freaking time. In my attempt to argue that English majors are just as intelligent as other majors, I wrongly put down another major. Honestly, though, many (not all) of those majors DID party all the time in my dorms, and they were the same a-holes who made comments like Brandi did, implying that English was some kind of Mickey Mouse major. (The #1 response to "I'm an English major" is "What're ya gonna do? Teach?!!" followed by mocking snickers/laughter. It gets old.) Really, I WAS working twice as hard as most of them (perhaps just because I took my major more seriously than they did, but I'd still love to see one of them tackle a syllabus for a Literary Theory course! hehe). Maybe I just lived with a-holes.
I'll admit that I've never done well in science classes. But I'm great at and passionate about reading, writing, research, critical thinking, etc. So doesn't it make sense that I major in English and be the one to teach our kids how to write an argumentative essay, or put their thoughts into intelligent, comprehensible written English? (A skill that, incidentally, they will need to know in order to do well in any major, including science, business, etc.). English majors don't choose English because they're too stupid in something that the rest of the world sees as more useful. They happen to think that literature and the various studies surrounding it (like I said, history, women's studies, communication, etc.) are just as, if not more, important in our society.
Anyway, I do respect science majors for the work they do. I, however, could not respect the ones I lived with who just relied on "open book" or memorizing crap to get by (and they all had scantron tests at my school, hehe), who mocked my major just because I'd be making $100K less than them a year or because they mistook it for majoring in "dabbling in poetry." Like I said, I guess I just took my major and my work more seriously than those specific kids. Because I'm a smart cookie. And an English major. And the two are not mutually exclusive. So, I apologize if I belittled Science majors in my defense of English majors.
Thanks for the post, and I really like your bolded line. And I hear you on the frustrations - I think you get that sort of slacker in almost every major. In my school, business tended to be the "fall back" major, but that might be because a lot of engineering credits transferred over.
I spent some time during my lunch to look up teacher salaries in NY, I think more people should go there, the salaries are astronomical apparently. $136k for an art teacher, where I know they get paid crap where I live now..
The sad thing is, there are SO many crappy teachers because they are underpaid and the only real benefit is summers and holidays off. Our education system needs to change drastically in the US.
I sent the salary link lookup by teacher to my husband. He looked up his old spanish teacher from high school, whom he thought was just "okay."
$144,000 the year he retired. Which explains taxes in NY.
Edit: His MUSIC teacher... $131,000
I have read your posts and silently chuckled to myself about how grossly misinformed you are. I'm not going to get into the "my job is harder than your job debate" or the "my education is better than your education debate."
I am curious about your edited comment about MUSIC teachers. Why the capitals?
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Re: Can I do my FFFC early?
Are you fvcking kidding me? Brandi, I usually give you the benefit of the doubt because I never witnessed all the other crap that others hate you for (something about baby killers). But this just pisses me off.
You think all we do as English majors is interpret poetry??? I spent night after night in college reading not just poetry and novels, but thousands of pages of literary research, world history, psychology, religious studies, women's studies, world politics, theory, linguistics, etc., etc. Meanwhile, all the science majors, business majors, etc., went out and partied. Many of them just had to memorize facts in order to pass scantron tests. I had to write 20 page papers stating and defending independent theses on not just works of fiction and poetry, but feminist essays, war journals, philosophical treaties, and more. I had NO life. You have NO idea how much work it takes to get a BA in English. And don't even get me started on graduate school.
It's @ssholes like you that make teaching a miserable job sometimes. I hate students like you. Try having someone call YOU every name in the book when all you're trying to do is educate them and prepare them for college.
And to find pleasure in the fact that she's now stuck working at Kohl's? That's awful and sad. Too many good teachers are losing their jobs in this economy. You are completely insensitive.
Sorry you have to wipe butts for a living.
We have 3 preschool classes at my k-8 school. There is a Head Start class, a regular half day preschool, and a special needs preschool.
I'm a teacher, and I love my job. Do I love my time off, yes of course, but it isn't as much as most people think. I'm not going to argue whose job is harder, who is smarter. I chose this job, and I'm great at it.
I have enough post graduate credit hours to be a practicing physician, and I have the debt to prove it. But, I don't see many doctors having to buy their own copy paper, or (and this is my favorite) buy their own toilet paper because the schools ran out of money last year.
I have a class of 45 kindergartners this year. That is 45 4 and 5 year old. It is unlike anything I have ever seen. If you had to spend 35 hours a week in a classroom with 45 kids, you would need the occasional day off also.
Brandi~I don't have much to say other than you sound like a petulant brat.
I don't think I missed the part where you blatantly ridiculed getting a degree "IN ENGLISH."
I have a Master's in Teaching and a business degree.
I taught for a while, and now I work full time in a corporate job. I can speak for both.
Let me tell you - teaching was 1000x harder than what I do now. It is physically and emotionally draining, and you need a break. Plus, I get paid over twice as much for the job I do, then I ever did with teaching. I have better benefits as well. Much, much, much better.
People who think teachers are overpaid and/or don't have to work to earn it have no idea what they are talking about.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Brandi.
Goodnight.
This!
Dude, I haven't done a scantron test since a regents exam in high school. And FWIW, engineering and science majors don't just have to "memorize facts" - in fact, a lot of our tests were open books, or provided the formulas. What makes an intelligent engineer is in knowing how to figure out problems and applying the correct solution - which is incredibly difficult. I should scan one of my old Probability and Stochastic Processes tests and see if anyone here could even figure out what was going on.
I respect the work of most teachers. However, I grew up in NYC - where teachers pretty much are just babysitters all day, get paid as much as I did starting out, get tenure for incredible job security, get a pension - a PENSION! And a significant one! - and certainly don't even work a 40 hour week. 8:30 - 3pm, not including their prep period and lunch period. I worked as a sub, and pretty much every teacher got in at 8am, prepared their classroom for the day, used their prep period to do all their grading, and that was that. Sorry, but that was a pretty sweet job. Wish I knew that when I went for my degree!
My MIL even got paid overtime for attending training classes that took place outside the school day, since the union contract demanded it. $100 an hour. She retired safely into a six-figure income, and gets about $70k a year JUST from her pension, and she was not in a NY school her whole career.
So yeah, when she or my mother would complain about returning to work, I'd roll my eyes.
Apparently my thoughts here were not communicated clearly. First of all, I need to say: I am a teacher! Second, what I was trying to say was when I hear people getting on the "oh teachers have it so easy, they get off early, they have all summer off" tirade, then I say to them, "So why don't you teach? I mean if we have it so good then why didn't you make the choice to become a teacher? I love my job, but it should be known that most days I am hear 2 - 3 hours after my contract ends. A lot of nights I take work home. The last two weeks, while I was on my summer "vacation" I spent in my classroom getting things ready. I spent 2 weeks in June at a reading academy, which I chose to attend for no extra compensation from my district. Yes, it's a charmed life we life what with having all of our vacations dictated for us, getting 20 minutes to eat lunch, and only having sporadic restroom breaks. Last year I taught from 10 until 3 with no breaks. We are the only profession not required to ensure a 15 minute break every 4 hours. My point was that instead of complaining about how great teachers have it, people should hush up because we all had the choice of what profession we chose and each of them have advantages and disadvantages.
Don't most people complain about going back to work after a vacation? Isn't everyone entitled to feel sad that their time is going to be spent working again? I'll be sad to leave DD this year, but I love going to work. Remember, we send our kids to someone else so we can take care of yours. I know if you work you send your kids away, too. My point is that we're not just teaching. I've been a nurse, counselor, entertainer, advocate, moral coach, investigator, custodian and many others during my short career so far.
Most jobs hat require a college degree require you to work late, or take work home. I'd rather take work home, actually, than be forced to stay late at my job, but that's how it goes.
15 minute breaks? LOL - I'm lucky if I can get away from my desk to go pump. And yeah, with the exceptions of Fridays for me, most people in my company eat a sandwich while working. I'm getting fed up with my job, so I've recently been eating outside while meeting my DH, but the higher ups want us working towards deadlines. And there are ALWAYS deadlines.
I didn't become a teacher because it seems like 50% of college graduates are teachers. I wanted a job. If I would have been guaranteed a job teaching in NY when I graduated, I would have done that major in a heartbeat. When I subbed (which isn't the same), I had a great time, and actually got paid great money considering I worked 4.5 hours a day - got $125 per day.
I think it irritates people when teachers complain about going back to work because most people don't have a two month span to rejuvenate. Most people would love a chance to relax for an extended period of time, even if one had to take the occasional refresher course. Then again, most teachers I know rent beach houses with their families over the summer, or go on road trips across the US - people with only two weeks of vacation a year can never do this, especially since they are usually forced to take vacation when their kids are off from school.
This post has just turned into an argument over whose job is harder. Yes, everyone works hard and no one else can understand it. Resorted to a horrible idiom - the grass is always greener.
I'm used to my career being unappreciated by one and all - I sue people for a living.
I don't know what tons of extra time you think we have during Sept.- June. I barely have time to make any appointments for Dr. or any house maintence because if I am able to take off I have to spend tons of time leaving sub materials, which isn't worth it to take off.
Everything has to be planned around the school year, like my wedding and pregnancy. If I didn't have my LO during the summer I wouldn't have had paid maternity leave. And whoever said something about vacations during peak season was right. I'd much rather vacation in the spring or summer when I could actually afford a nicer vacation.
Wow! I do not want to have your child in my classroom. I certainly would not look forward to dealing with a parent that has such a disdain for my profession and clearly does not value education. I am very sorry you had bad experiences with some teachers, there are bad eggs in every single profession.
Could your attitude have possibly had an effect on how you were treated? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and need to learn that actions have consequences. It seems there may have been a self-fulfilling prophecy at play here. You expected to be treated like crap, so that is how you were treated.
Lucky for you, most teachers are dedicated and professional, so they will be able to overlook a deplorable parent with obvious bias and just teach the child to the best of their ability. They will just have to add respect to the list of moral behaviors that now need to be taught my educators since some parents can't seem to accomplish that task anymore.
She's referring to winter break, spring break, easter break, three days for Thanksgiving, every government holiday plus some.
Let's assume teachers work a full eight hour day, even though the school day isn't that long, but they also have to do prep work, etc (included in the schools I subbed at, plus a paid lunch). Let's also assume that non-teachers work a 40 hour week - again, most people work more.
Hours teachers work, assuming a 180 day school year = 1440.
Hours non-teachers work = 2000 (taking away vacation time).
So non-teachers work an extra 70 days, equating to 14 WEEKS, not to mention the not-included vacation time usually has to be taken when the kids are out of school during the year - so there's rarely time to allow for a nice long family vacation.
Sorry, I am calling BS on this one. I am a teacher and I am not going to deny the benefits. I am also not going to say that I spend ridiculous amounts of my salary on my job, or dedicate hours to planning. I did that the first few years of teaching, but have redefined my priorities and realized that it is a job. If my family members can come home from their jobs without bringing work home, so can I. I do not feel the need to be a teaching martyr. I use my time at school very wisely, that does not make me lazy.
What offends me about your post is the perpetuation of the myth of lazy and overpaid teachers. I have a hard time believing you worked as a sub since you declared that teachers are simply babysitters. Anybody who has walked into the school sees the amazing things teachers accomplish on a daily basis. I have brought my friends and siblings who work in other professions into my classroom. They each reacted the same way, like a deer in the headlights. Engaging 25 students of different abilities, language capabilities, and motivations is really a skill. It is evident with non-teachers try to make presentations to a class. An educated person does not necessarily make a good teacher.
As for your money stats, $100 an hour is simply not true or possible. I also highly doubt the six figure salary, although the cost of living in NY is higher than the rest of the country so it might be right after a teacher reaches seniority. As for things like insurance, it depends on the district. Some districts definitely have impressive insurance, most do not. When people attack teachers, they generally try to find the richest district in the state and use that as the standard. I think if most people took a look at averages across the states, the job would not seem so out of line with other professions.
As for job security, I have taught for 8 years and been laid off 10 times. Give me a break. I have gone back to school on three different occasions to earn a different certification in order to keep my job. The requirements and protected areas keep changing, so I keep doling out cash and updating my certifications just to keep my job.
Well, let's do some math.
180 days in a year for a teacher = 1440 hours worked, assuming they get paid for an eight hour day (they work less, so you can almost assume that they get paid more hourly). I have been told by my MIL herself that she makes six figures, so on the absolute lowest end, that would be $100,000. Let's round that to equalling $70 per hour. When she went to conferences/training outside what the union has in their contract, it's doubletime. When her pension was figured out, I think it took her highest paying years into account. Obviously not all teachers make this - but there's a reason why teachers there are loathe to retire.
So you're right, I estimated too little. It's $140/hour. And I'll assume you never set foot in a NY public school - they're usually madhouses. I subbed for a class whose room was right next to the cop who would sit in the front hall - because the cop was often needed to keep the class in order, what with kids running rampant, throwing things, blatantly ignoring the teacher. I feel BAD for those teachers... but even they admit that no one learns anything in those classes. They might be able to teach for two hours a day, while the rest of it is crowd control.
From the 2009 - 2010 NYC public school calendar (omitting the days teachers have to show up when kids do not):
9/28 (Monday) - Yom Kippur
10/12 (Monday) - Columbus Day
11/11 (Wednesday) - Veterans Day
Two days for Thanksgiving, though I think it's a half day that Wednesday before
12/24 through 1/1 - Winter recess
1/18 (Monday)- MLK day
2/15 - 2/19 - Midwinter recess
3/29 - 4/6 - spring break
5/31(Monday) - Memorial Day
I get off Memorial, one day at Christmas and New Years, and one day at Thanksgiving.
Teachers here get four long weekends, another random day off, and three full week plus off (almost two weeks at Christmas, depending on when it lands) during the school year, aside from summer break.
9/28 (Monday) - Yom Kippur
10/12 (Monday) - Columbus Day
11/11 (Wednesday) - Veterans Day
These days off must be common to your area. We don't get them off here. I know we used to be off for Columbus Day when I was little.
However, that is not how overtime works in teaching. We do not get paid time and a half or double time. There is a set workshop rate. For a new teacher, it is slightly more than their hourly wage. For a teacher with seniority, it is significantly less. In my district, it is $28 an hour. That is on the high end in my area. I have teacher friends in other states, and their workshop pay works exactly the same way. I am certain NYC teachers make $30-45 for workshop pay, nowhere near even your low number. IF your MIL made $100,000, I am also certain she has at least a Masters +30, or a doctorate, and has taught for 15-20 years. If that is the case, I do not feel paying a person with a doctorate and experience $100,000 is out of line.
As for the calculations of hourly pay, we are paid for 6 hours of work a day. However, those 6 hours are used actually working. There are no water, bathroom, or smoke breaks. Many times there are no lunch breaks either, mine is spent planning with co-workers. Some teachers keep students in their classroom during that time. We do not socialize with co-workers during school hours, time together is spent working. You will not find a teacher on The Bump from September to June. I think if most people took an honest look and subtracted the amount of time wasted in an office setting, the days would be about equal.
Jamie S.
It seems you found the calendar for NYC schools. If you are interested, you can take a look at the contract, so you will be more informed when making statements. It is the last contract from 2009, but if anything, I am sure gains have been lost with any new contract. Teachers are making sacrifices like every other profession
https://www.uft.org/member/contracts/teacher/teachcon0709.pdf
I know the contract - I hear about it all the time from my mother who is still employed as a NYC teacher. Their benefits are still awesome in comparison to what most non-teacher, non-executives have. The mere fact of having a PENSION is incredible in this day and age. I chose that calendar because I attended NYC schools when I was younger, and it was easy to find online.
My MIL worked for Yonkers. I can actually search for her salary online, it's public information - she was around $112k per year.
112k a year after working 20 years, yes, isn't spectacular. But couple that with job security, sometimes a buyout if you are retirement age, and a pension that isn't offset by SS, while having all the vacation perks... I wish I gave it more thought when I was in high school.
Just because it's not on the exam doesn't mean it's not important to know. We have lots of standards that have to be taught but you can't possibly test on them all. Students would be in class forever.
I sent the salary link lookup by teacher to my husband. He looked up his old spanish teacher from high school, whom he thought was just "okay."
$144,000 the year he retired. Which explains taxes in NY.
Edit: His MUSIC teacher... $131,000
My eyes could not possibly roll back any farther in my head...
And, to Jaime S.: You are right, I wasn't being fair to Science majors. What Brandi said (that an English major only majored in English because she was too stupid to major in Science) is what hit a sore spot with me, because we happen to hear that opinion all the freaking time. In my attempt to argue that English majors are just as intelligent as other majors, I wrongly put down another major. Honestly, though, many (not all) of those majors DID party all the time in my dorms, and they were the same a-holes who made comments like Brandi did, implying that English was some kind of Mickey Mouse major. (The #1 response to "I'm an English major" is "What're ya gonna do? Teach?!!" followed by mocking snickers/laughter. It gets old.) Really, I WAS working twice as hard as most of them (perhaps just because I took my major more seriously than they did, but I'd still love to see one of them tackle a syllabus for a Literary Theory course! hehe). Maybe I just lived with a-holes.
I'll admit that I've never done well in science classes. But I'm great at and passionate about reading, writing, research, critical thinking, etc. So doesn't it make sense that I major in English and be the one to teach our kids how to write an argumentative essay, or put their thoughts into intelligent, comprehensible written English? (A skill that, incidentally, they will need to know in order to do well in any major, including science, business, etc.). English majors don't choose English because they're too stupid in something that the rest of the world sees as more useful. They happen to think that literature and the various studies surrounding it (like I said, history, women's studies, communication, etc.) are just as, if not more, important in our society.
Anyway, I do respect science majors for the work they do. I, however, could not respect the ones I lived with who just relied on "open book" or memorizing crap to get by (and they all had scantron tests at my school, hehe), who mocked my major just because I'd be making $100K less than them a year or because they mistook it for majoring in "dabbling in poetry." Like I said, I guess I just took my major and my work more seriously than those specific kids. Because I'm a smart cookie. And an English major. And the two are not mutually exclusive.
So, I apologize if I belittled Science majors in my defense of English majors.
Thanks for the post, and I really like your bolded line. And I hear you on the frustrations - I think you get that sort of slacker in almost every major. In my school, business tended to be the "fall back" major, but that might be because a lot of engineering credits transferred over.
I spent some time during my lunch to look up teacher salaries in NY, I think more people should go there, the salaries are astronomical apparently. $136k for an art teacher, where I know they get paid crap where I live now..
I have read your posts and silently chuckled to myself about how grossly misinformed you are. I'm not going to get into the "my job is harder than your job debate" or the "my education is better than your education debate."
I am curious about your edited comment about MUSIC teachers. Why the capitals?