I'll probably DD later-I'm pretty upset (job related)

Christakim

I applied and interviewed for a position with a local hospital, it would've been a great foot in the door for nursing. 

I had to get a bajillion references including what had to be 2 management references.  

I got a call back today saying I didn't get the job.  She said I was their number one candidate....until my my references came back.  She said my manager references were "awful".  They were both from the same company and one of them I used because I had to and didn't really trust her because she doesn't get along with anyone and was always on thin ice with the company.  But I had to use her because she was a manager.

I can't understand for the life of me why the other one would've said anything bad about me.  I was her right hand girl the whole time I worked there.  She got in a bad car accident and I took over the branch for her, working 50-60 hours a week when I was 8 months pregnant and never complained once.

I'm just not sure where to go from here because if my two most recent managers aren't going to give me good references, how the heck am I supposed to get any type of job.

If any of you are wondering, since it's an email reference, they get around the "basic questions" and make it so the manager can write paragraphs and rank you.  I know it doesn't sound right, but it's legal somehow.  The woman who was doing the hiring for the position was kind enough to tell me more information than she was supposed to about what type of references gave me good rankings and what type gave me bad.  She said the managerial was "awful".

 I'm sitting here bawling my eyes out wondering how I'm ever going to get a job. I don't get it, I gave so much to my last company, even gave 1.5 months notice so that they had time to fill my position.  I guess it's more of a vent, but if you have any words of wisdom, they might help.  I'm so at a loss here.

madhatter2003

That is CRAZY. I know it's so restricted on what I can say as a manager when I give referrals, that really sucks.

Do you have any older managers you can go back and get references from that would be good?

MonkeysGirl05

Ugh... I'd get creative with references for my next interview. Did you talk to the references before you listed them? Most people don't say bad stuff for risk of being sued. I'm so sorry the job didn't pan out.  Do you think they knew you are PG? Companies aren't always too giddy about hiring PG ladies and she might have lied about the references because she can't say you aren't getting hired because you are PG. Just a thought...

tina623

I'm so sorry 

In Missouri, I found out my last employer (nanny job) was giving me awful reference and asked her why.  I know she was mad I left but after that she stopped. 

Is it legal for you to confront her?

DavezWife

that CANNOT be a legal way of getting and replying to reference checks. It just can't. wow. And the fact that woman told you all that stuff, too... albeit nice to know what she heard, but that is wrong as well.

ALL HR is allowed to ask is what your position was, confirm or deny the wage you stated, and if you are eligable for rehire.

I'm no expert, but I thought that was fairly standard.

That old company have always been asshats to you. I'm so sorry.

Now you know not to use them, and you'll just have to get creative to get around them.

Meanwhile, I'm going to flick some nasty juju on those two people. WTF. Didn't they offer you that job back a while ago too??????????????

big hugz.

wiscgirl95

I'm so sorry.  I don't do employment law, but it was my basic understanding that it is illegal to give bad references or interfere with a person's ability to secure employment. 

Ask the woman who told you why you didn't get the job to put that in writing.  She probably won't do it but it can't hurt to ask. 

I would ask the idiot that gave you the bad reference what her basis was for doing that.  Tell her it cost you a job.  It's not like she can make the situation worse and at least you would have some answers.

preheatedoven

That is just terrible. Ditto pp -do you have past managers you could use? They can't require specific ones, like what if you were currently working but didn't want your job to know you were interviewing elsewhere? You wouldn't need to list them.

I am sorry that you didn't get the job. That just sucks. 

MayDayGirl

oh my gosh I am so sorry, I would be bawling too! If I were you I would call the one you were surprised about and ask for an explanation... but maybe that isn't the right thing to do.

firsttogo

Ugh I have no advice other than to commiserate with you. I was "let go" when pregnant with Nolan, and it was a HUGE blow to my ego, and seriously devastating when I had no clue they had an issue with me. Maybe for next time, I would ask people first if they would be willing to be a reference before using them that way if they are not vindictive, they will just say no. 

I am so sorry I know how much that job would have meant to you. 

GypsyEsq

I'm so sorry - I'm sure that was a real blow.  I think I'd do two things - (1) follow up with your managers (the ones you listed as references) and say that you want to list them as references and see how they react.  I wouldn't necessarily take what the hiring person told you as truth -- if the managers say, oh ya, you already did and I replied or if they say oh great, can't wait to give you a reference or something indicating they are ok with it then I think you'll be at least able to learn something about their willingness to serve as references.  I also think that while there is a standard HR response, often in management (and in law where I am) direct supervisors give more "character references" and those can be (and often should be) more expansive.  So it might be that you're getting screwed because the hiring person here was just giving you a line about how your references replied but you might also be getting a bad reference and if that's the case I'd (2) work on finding other management supervisors and definitely talk to them first about them serving as your reference.  Ideally if someone cannot serve as a "good reference" they will tell you that up front.  GL and again, I'm very sorry.

Christakim

So I contacted ALL these people first to let them know they were getting emails and one even went out of her way to do this on her home email because she could get in trouble doing it at work.  They were all very nice and all said "good luck" and "anytime"

desabean

This is exactly why most managers and most reputable companies have a policy on providing references.  Frankly, you possibly have cause for legal action.  MANY companies have been sued over giving bad references that resulted in people not getting future employment when they do not have the documentation to back it up, and it sounds like this manager does not.  I am not a big advocate of lawsuits but this could affect your livelihood for the rest of your life and you might want to consider some legal recourse.

preheatedoven

Christakim:

So I contacted ALL these people first to let them know they were getting emails and one even went out of her way to do this on her home email because she could get in trouble doing it at work.  They were all very nice and all said "good luck" and "anytime"

Oooh, I'd be even more pissed then That is just terrible. 

desabean

DavezWife:

that CANNOT be a legal way of getting and replying to reference checks. It just can't. wow. And the fact that woman told you all that stuff, too... albeit nice to know what she heard, but that is wrong as well.

ALL HR is allowed to ask is what your position was, confirm or deny the wage you stated, and if you are eligable for rehire.

I'm no expert, but I thought that was fairly standard.

That old company have always been asshats to you. I'm so sorry.

Now you know not to use them, and you'll just have to get creative to get around them.

Meanwhile, I'm going to flick some nasty juju on those two people. WTF. Didn't they offer you that job back a while ago too??????????????

big hugz.

 

Potential employers can ask former employers or any reference anything that they want, and in any format.  Most established companies have policies limiting who they will allow to give a reference and what type of information they are willing to provide.  It's a double edged sword really.  Sometimes it would really be to a candidate's benefit to have a former employer provider a qualitative reference and it hurts the candidate's chances when they are only given dates of employment, etc.  but other times it works the other way....

Mrs.Reem

Well.. now you can make your money by suing your manager. They're not allowed to give bad references. It would've been in their best interest to verify employment and eligibility for rehire. That's it. You can (and many do) sue for defamation of character. 

LucyPevensie

Do you feel brave enough to call either of these people and say "I just found out you gave me a negative reference - and because of it - I didn't get a job that I was the number one candidate for.  I wish that you had let me know when I asked you beforehand that you didn't feel you could provide a positive reference for me." 

Just to see what they say - and - to let them know YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID. 

I'm not suggesting you get in a screaming match or even have a lengthy conversation - but I'm thinking that they think you'll never know what they said ... but yet ... you do (not verbatim, but the gist.) 

I'm really, really sorry this happened. 

GypsyEsq

desabean:

DavezWife:

that CANNOT be a legal way of getting and replying to reference checks. It just can't. wow. And the fact that woman told you all that stuff, too... albeit nice to know what she heard, but that is wrong as well.

ALL HR is allowed to ask is what your position was, confirm or deny the wage you stated, and if you are eligable for rehire.

I'm no expert, but I thought that was fairly standard.

That old company have always been asshats to you. I'm so sorry.

Now you know not to use them, and you'll just have to get creative to get around them.

Meanwhile, I'm going to flick some nasty juju on those two people. WTF. Didn't they offer you that job back a while ago too??????????????

big hugz.

Potential employers can ask former employers or any reference anything that they want, and in any format.  Most established companies have policies limiting who they will allow to give a reference and what type of information they are willing to provide.  It's a double edged sword really.  Sometimes it would really be to a candidate's benefit to have a former employer provider a qualitative reference and it hurts the candidate's chances when they are only given dates of employment, etc.  but other times it works the other way....

Ditto this -- it may be company policy to only give standard HR responses but the only law is that references cannot be false.  And if they are false it falls on the former employee to prove the falsity and to prove that but for the false reference they would have received the job.

Christakim

LucyPevensie:

Do you feel brave enough to call either of these people and say "I just found out you gave me a negative reference - and because of it - I didn't get a job that I was the number one candidate for.  I wish that you had let me know when I asked you beforehand that you didn't feel you could provide a positive reference for me." 

Just to see what they say - and - to let them know YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID. 

I'm not suggesting you get in a screaming match or even have a lengthy conversation - but I'm thinking that they think you'll never know what they said ... but yet ... you do (not verbatim, but the gist.) 

I'm really, really sorry this happened. 

I talk to one quite frequently on Facebook (as a "friend"), so I thought about mentioning it in a non confrontational way at first.

I'm not sure I'm brave enough to call the other one.  

What I don't get and keeps going through my head is that I never burned any bridges leaving.  I.just.don't.get it.

DavezWife

call a lawyer. the hospital gal has those emails (evidence)... too bad the hospital gal didn't EMAIL you all this info...but I'd make some phonecalls.

What they did was wrong.

Christakim

References

A previous employer is free to provide any non-confidential information about a previous employee, as long as it's true and isn't provided to maliciously harm the employee. An employer, who provides false information that disparages the employee, may be liable for defamation. In order to avoid potential liability, many employers often refuse to comment on a past employee's job performance and confirm only dates of hire and separation, plus wage or salary information.

 

 This came from an Maine Employment Lawyers' website.  If it's true, I don't have much of a case because I don't know exactly what they said.

Mrs.Reem

You have a right to a copy of the report though. 

Temp159135562506975

Mrs.Reem:

You have a right to a copy of the report though. 

not really- she's not an employee there... what they have on file is their documents - not hers.  If she were to have a law suit the attorney would have to request it --- but it's not hers - it's not like medical records or anything.

12106mrsmun

Well sh!t! There has to be something that you can do. I'm so sorry. I think a lot of people gave you great advice here. Big [[[HUGS]]]

dusk42

Christakim:

References

A previous employer is free to provide any non-confidentialinformation about a previous employee, as long as it's true and isn'tprovided to maliciously harm the employee. An employer, who providesfalse information that disparages the employee, may be liable fordefamation. In order to avoid potential liability, many employers oftenrefuse to comment on a past employee's job performance and confirm onlydates of hire and separation, plus wage or salary information.

 

 This came from an Maine Employment Lawyers' website.  If it's true, I don't have much of a case because I don't know exactly what they said.

Yeah, they can say negative things if they can back it up (i.e., attendance, etc.).  But it is SO hard to find out what someone says about you and then prove that it was damaging.    

If they all said they would give you a reference, I'd call them up, say "I didn't get the job - do you have any advice on what I can do differently in my next interview?"  See what that unearths... 

sasa625

That is horrible! There is no need to interfere with someone's ability to get a job!! And I'm sure you are an excellent employee who would be an asset to any company.

I know that I have gotten email, survey-type requests for information on past co-workers... not sure if that's the same thing that these people had to do. It was pretty much a ranking thing and then I had to describe what would make them good candidates for the positions, etc. I assume this is legal or potential employers wouldn't do it.

I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this! I would definitely talk to your references to see what happened. 

nicolita14w

desabean:

This is exactly why most managers and most reputable companies have a policy on providing references.  Frankly, you possibly have cause for legal action.  MANY companies have been sued over giving bad references that resulted in people not getting future employment when they do not have the documentation to back it up, and it sounds like this manager does not.  I am not a big advocate of lawsuits but this could affect your livelihood for the rest of your life and you might want to consider some legal recourse.

Frankly, I'd look into this too. I am totally appalled that someone would do that to you after what you gave to the company. It is completely ridiculous. I'm so sorry. 

Mrs.Kiltlifter

(((((HUGS))))) That sucks.  I have never understood giving a bad reference.  Even with my worst employees I also managed to find something to positive say.  Karma will get those managers!

ABC-123

That is just horrible!  I would really want to know what they said, but also wouldn't know how to ask.  I guess if you are FB friends with one of them, I would ask her about it and if she gave you a bad reference, why.  I am sorry that you are going through this; it really bites!

jmkatz

ugh I am so so sorry  

I agree with maybe calling them up (especially the one you are "friends" with) and saying you didn't get the job and asking what you could do in the future.  (Although, I would probably be too pissed to do this, it sounds good in theory)

I wish I had better advice.   

JillRock96

(((HUGS)))  I don't have any advice because I have no clue what is legal, but I would be so hurt, too.  I'm so sorry this happened.

MrsJeffsWife2B

desabean:

This is exactly why most managers and most reputable companies have a policy on providing references.  Frankly, you possibly have cause for legal action.  MANY companies have been sued over giving bad references that resulted in people not getting future employment when they do not have the documentation to back it up, and it sounds like this manager does not.  I am not a big advocate of lawsuits but this could affect your livelihood for the rest of your life and you might want to consider some legal recourse.

This. Sue their pants off!!!!!!!!!

MrsJeffsWife2B

ooops, double post.