non-FFFC - CIO

CassieD

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 Edit: I totally didn't see the post below debating this. If I had, I would have just put this there. Didn't mean to start another debate that had already begun.  (I'm not DDing though.)

mrsfox1369

CassieD:

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 

I don't care if I get flamed for my comfession... they aren't ever really bad enough to get flamed I don't think... IMO.

Anyways I guess maybe the reason I don't use CIO is because DD never took a paci, DD never liked being swaddled... so I have nothing to break her of so I have no use for it personally. So I agree with you... if I let DD CIO then it would be obvious something was wrong because there's nothing for me to break her of.. she either cries if she's got gas, too tired, or hungry... or too hot now that it's summer.

rocksteady91@hotmail.com

i totally agree with you!

mlf625

mrsfox1369:

Anyways I guess maybe the reason I don't use CIO is because DD never took a paci, DD never liked being swaddled... so I have nothing to break her of so I have no use for it personally.

Huh?  Do you even understand what CIO is or what it's typically used for?  Hint: it's not just for breaking habits, it's used to teach your child to self soothe themselves to sleep.  If your baby gets to be 6 months + and is waking for no reason, you may be singing a different tune about CIO.

angiegail78

I'm inclined to agree with this for the most part.  Four months old is still very young.  Once you get past six months and closer to a year and baby is still sleeping terribly I think the line gets blurrier.  But I, personally, would not do it before six months.

It makes me laugh what some people here consider flaming.  Or when people say, "and don't disagree with me!" If you don't want debate, don't post.  At all.

finally2006

I think the fact that you think it is child abuse is stupid. I think you have attachment issues if you think that picking her up every time she cries is the only way she will know you love her.  She is a baby she doesn't know what love is but you will still be her mom and she will still be your baby if she CIO.

I don't want to rock DD to sleep or suddently start nursing her to sleep beacuse that leads to MORE BAD HABITS TO BREAK!  I think it is a lot easier to eatablish healthy habits now then wait will they are toddlers and might hold a resentment against you.

 

aegrimm

CassieD:

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 Edit: I totally didn't see the post below debating this. If I had, I would have just put this there. Didn't mean to start another debate that had already begun.  (I'm not DDing though.)

Honestly, the only reason I post as a FFFC is because I'm at work and don't have time to defend myself lol

PLUS, (if you've been around as long as you and I have) you can pretty much predict what everyone will say if they flame you, lol

It's just fun to getthings off your chest. But, I confess any day, if I feel I need to, lol

grapeape73

I am just not able to hear a baby cry.  It is like nails on a chalk board to me.  I am the kind of person who will pull the car over if she is crying for more than a few minutes.

IMO there is a reason a baby cries.  Now, when they are older (over 10 months) then we do sleep training, but without CIO.  Both of my older children have set their own schedules and are great sleepers and self soothers without ever having to cry.

I will admit than I have been blessed 3 times with great babies who are generally very happy.  I  can't imagine what I would do if I had a baby with colic.  I'm sure I would sing a different tune.

littlemaybaby

CassieD:

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 Edit: I totally didn't see the post below debating this. If I had, I would have just put this there. Didn't mean to start another debate that had already begun.  (I'm not DDing though.)

OMFG, If I see one more person who thinks that this is the way that all CIO works, I am going to scream.  And sorry OP, you get my anger, because you are just the latest of many who equate CIO with leaving your child to fend for himself.

There are many ways to do what is technically considered CIO without "plopping" him in his crib and letting him cry until "exhausted."

And sure there are people who do this to a 4 month old and I would venture to say that most people find that extreme and harsh.

But can we please stop lumping all "CIO" into that one extreme bucket???

aocain02@yahoo.com

Once again, I think it all depends on what your definition of CIO is.  Letting a baby cry themselves to sleep is mean and cruel.  Putting a baby in his/her crib and bedtime and soothing them without picking them up isn't mean IMO. 

Ultimately it is a parenting choice that you and your DH need to agree upon and be comfortable with.  When you are going on week 5 or pretty crappy nights because your LO won't sleep you try anything.  You can't hold a baby all night long and not get any sleep yourself because what happens the next day and the day after that? 

wpowell

littlemaybaby:

CassieD:

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 Edit: I totally didn't see the post below debating this. If I had, I would have just put this there. Didn't mean to start another debate that had already begun.  (I'm not DDing though.)

OMFG, If I see one more person who thinks that this is the way that all CIO works, I am going to scream.  And sorry OP, you get my anger, because you are just the latest of many who equate CIO with leaving your child to fend for himself.

There are many ways to do what is technically considered CIO without "plopping" him in his crib and letting him cry until "exhausted."

And sure there are people who do this to a 4 month old and I would venture to say that most people find that extreme and harsh.

But can we please stop lumping all "CIO" into that one extreme bucket???

 

CassieD

finally2006:

I think the fact that you think it is child abuse is stupid. I think you have attachment issues if you think that picking her up every time she cries is the only way she will know you love her.  She is a baby she doesn't know what love is but you will still be her mom and she will still be your baby if she CIO.

I don't want to rock DD to sleep or suddently start nursing her to sleep beacuse that leads to MORE BAD HABITS TO BREAK!  I think it is a lot easier to eatablish healthy habits now then wait will they are toddlers and might hold a resentment against you.

 

I never said that picking her up when she cries is the only way she'll know I love her. I do lots of things to show her that I love her. But the fact is that 4 month old babies sometimes just need to be comforted / need to be held / need to know that someone is nearby. And it's downright ridiculous to say that babies don't know what love is.

For the record, since we're calling each other stupid, I think it's stupid that you let your baby cry for 40 minutes, when you acknowledge that patting her on the back ever 10 minutes isn't doing anything to soothe her. I had to break DD of swaddling too, and I did that by comforting her until she went to sleep and then putting her down, not just letting her cry in her crib. Sometimes it took a long time to get her to stay asleep in her crib at first, but that's the way it goes. I think parents that say they have to CIO at 4 months are lazy and just don't like to spend the extra time to take care of their baby or be inconvenienced by getting out of bed in the middle of the night.

Thank goodness, though, that you get to raise YOUR child the way YOU want to, and I get to raise mine the way I want to. It's wonderful living in a free country.

MrsRebecca

You need to actually learn what CIO is and then decide if you still think it's child abuse.

CassieD

littlemaybaby:

CassieD:

I think letting babies CIO is borderline child abuse, especially babies that are only 4 months old. Letter a toddler throw a temper tantrum and ignoring him is one thing. Letting a 4 month old cry himself to sleep because he NEEDS something is NOT ok.

Weaning a baby off a paci/swaddling/whatever is fine and sometimes has to be done. But that doesn't mean that you show plop him in his crib and let him cry until he's exhausted himself. Have you ever heard of a rocking chair? Cuddles? Getting a bottle or nursing him to sleep? Sometimes babies will still cry, but I will hold my daughter and make sure that she knows I love her and haven't abandoned her while she's crying.

And, by the way, I think the whole FFFC thing is stupid. If you're going to post your opinion, be a woman about it and be willing to defend it. And who gives a sh*t if someone on the internet disagrees with you.

 Thus, this is a highly flammable post. Gimme your best shot. ;-)

 Edit: I totally didn't see the post below debating this. If I had, I would have just put this there. Didn't mean to start another debate that had already begun.  (I'm not DDing though.)

OMFG, If I see one more person who thinks that this is the way that all CIO works, I am going to scream.  And sorry OP, you get my anger, because you are just the latest of many who equate CIO with leaving your child to fend for himself.

There are many ways to do what is technically considered CIO without "plopping" him in his crib and letting him cry until "exhausted."

And sure there are people who do this to a 4 month old and I would venture to say that most people find that extreme and harsh.

But can we please stop lumping all "CIO" into that one extreme bucket???

Ok, that was definitely hyperbole, and it was totally fair to call me out on that. I know that there are different and more responsible ways to do it. I don't agree with them, but I do acknowledge that lots of parents do CIO without totally abandoning their baby in their room.

kcisthebombdotcom

MrsRebecca:

You need to actually learn what CIO is and then decide if you still think it's child abuse.

She understands what CIO is. She's referring to the "extinction" method of CIO where baby is left alone to cry until they fall asleep. There are less harsh forms of CIO (like the Ferber method where you check on baby in intervals) that she's not acknowledging and she's making a blanket statement, but she's still talking about CIO nonetheless.

aocain02@yahoo.com

CassieD:

finally2006:

I think the fact that you think it is child abuse is stupid. I think you have attachment issues if you think that picking her up every time she cries is the only way she will know you love her.  She is a baby she doesn't know what love is but you will still be her mom and she will still be your baby if she CIO.

I don't want to rock DD to sleep or suddently start nursing her to sleep beacuse that leads to MORE BAD HABITS TO BREAK!  I think it is a lot easier to eatablish healthy habits now then wait will they are toddlers and might hold a resentment against you.

 

I never said that picking her up when she cries is the only way she'll know I love her. I do lots of things to show her that I love her. But the fact is that 4 month old babies sometimes just need to be comforted / need to be held / need to know that someone is nearby. And it's downright ridiculous to say that babies don't know what love is.

For the record, since we're calling each other stupid, I think it's stupid that you let your baby cry for 40 minutes, when you acknowledge that patting her on the back ever 10 minutes isn't doing anything to soothe her. I had to break DD of swaddling too, and I did that by comforting her until she went to sleep and then putting her down, not just letting her cry in her crib. Sometimes it took a long time to get her to stay asleep in her crib at first, but that's the way it goes. I think parents that say they have to CIO at 4 months are lazy and just don't like to spend the extra time to take care of their baby or be inconvenienced by getting out of bed in the middle of the night.

Thank goodness, though, that you get to raise YOUR child the way YOU want to, and I get to raise mine the way I want to. It's wonderful living in a free country.

It's not about laziness at all.  I'm sure everyone on this board has no problem getting up with her LO in the middle of the night if her LO needs something or is hungry. 

Do you know what it's like put your baby to bed at 8 and then get up with him at 10, midnight, 2, 4, and 6?  And during those times you are up with your baby taking at least an hour to get him back to sleep?  So what's really cruel?  Letting your baby have bad sleep habits and not getting the sleep he needs at night or having a few nights of crying, learning how to put himself to bed so when he wakes up in the middle of the night he can put himself back to sleep without your help.  Babies don't sleep 6 to 8 hours without waking up.  They wake up in the middle of the night just like we do and need to learn how to go back to sleep themselves. 

finally2006

 

If you would see my siggy, you would notice that DD is almost five months, not four months.  BIG difference there considering I had a totally different baby at 4 months than I do now.

If DD is crying and I go in and pat her tummy or sshhh her, it does not always soothe her.  Sometimes, it wakes her up even more, and then I am not helping anyone.

Congratulations on your deswaddling your techniques.  It would be a hell of a lot easier for me if DD did not pull her paci out of her mouth every five seconds with her free hands.  It is like weaning her from the two hardest things to wean from at once, so it has been really tough but she needs to be out of the swaddle, primarily for her safety. 

So you win Mother of the Year!  Congrats to you and I wish you could make little patience and loving mother pies and feed them all to us so we could all stop being so lazy and inconvenienced by our infants. 

In the mean time, I would appreciate if you would stop calling fellow mothers child abusers.

 

aocain02@yahoo.com

finally2006:

 

If you would see my siggy, you would notice that DD is almost five months, not four months.  BIG difference there considering I had a totally different baby at 4 months than I do now.

If DD is crying and I go in and pat her tummy or sshhh her, it does not always soothe her.  Sometimes, it wakes her up even more, and then I am not helping anyone.

Congratulations on your deswaddling your techniques.  It would be a hell of a lot easier for me if DD did not pull her paci out of her mouth every five seconds with her free hands.  It is like weaning her from the two hardest things to wean from at once, so it has been really tough but she needs to be out of the swaddle, primarily for her safety. 

So you win Mother of the Year!  Congrats to you and I wish you could make little patience and loving mother pies and feed them all to us so we could all stop being so lazy and inconvenienced by our infants. 

In the mean time, I would appreciate if you would stop calling fellow mothers child abusers.

 

This too gets  and an AMEN from me!

 

CassieD

finally2006:

So you win Mother of the Year!  Congrats to you and I wish you could make little patience and loving mother pies and feed them all to us so we could all stop being so lazy and inconvenienced by our infants. 

If only I knew how to bake...

berrysweet

Before staying at home, I worked with kids in foster care, who were actually victims of child abuse, and it DRIVES ME NUTS to hear people say that CIO is child abuse. It isn't something we do with our DD, but it is NOT child abuse, and suggesting that it is, is really insulting to kids who actually are victims of abuse, in my humble opinion.

jonnygurl76

finally2006:

 

If you would see my siggy, you would notice that DD is almost five months, not four months.  BIG difference there considering I had a totally different baby at 4 months than I do now.

If DD is crying and I go in and pat her tummy or sshhh her, it does not always soothe her.  Sometimes, it wakes her up even more, and then I am not helping anyone.

Congratulations on your deswaddling your techniques.  It would be a hell of a lot easier for me if DD did not pull her paci out of her mouth every five seconds with her free hands.  It is like weaning her from the two hardest things to wean from at once, so it has been really tough but she needs to be out of the swaddle, primarily for her safety. 

So you win Mother of the Year!  Congrats to you and I wish you could make little patience and loving mother pies and feed them all to us so we could all stop being so lazy and inconvenienced by our infants. 

In the mean time, I would appreciate if you would stop calling fellow mothers child abusers.

 

kcisthebombdotcom

ALG29:

CassieD:

finally2006:

I think the fact that you think it is child abuse is stupid. I think you have attachment issues if you think that picking her up every time she cries is the only way she will know you love her.  She is a baby she doesn't know what love is but you will still be her mom and she will still be your baby if she CIO.

I don't want to rock DD to sleep or suddently start nursing her to sleep beacuse that leads to MORE BAD HABITS TO BREAK!  I think it is a lot easier to eatablish healthy habits now then wait will they are toddlers and might hold a resentment against you.

 

I never said that picking her up when she cries is the only way she'll know I love her. I do lots of things to show her that I love her. But the fact is that 4 month old babies sometimes just need to be comforted / need to be held / need to know that someone is nearby. And it's downright ridiculous to say that babies don't know what love is.

For the record, since we're calling each other stupid, I think it's stupid that you let your baby cry for 40 minutes, when you acknowledge that patting her on the back ever 10 minutes isn't doing anything to soothe her. I had to break DD of swaddling too, and I did that by comforting her until she went to sleep and then putting her down, not just letting her cry in her crib. Sometimes it took a long time to get her to stay asleep in her crib at first, but that's the way it goes. I think parents that say they have to CIO at 4 months are lazy and just don't like to spend the extra time to take care of their baby or be inconvenienced by getting out of bed in the middle of the night.

Thank goodness, though, that you get to raise YOUR child the way YOU want to, and I get to raise mine the way I want to. It's wonderful living in a free country.

It's not about laziness at all.  I'm sure everyone on this board has no problem getting up with her LO in the middle of the night if her LO needs something or is hungry. 

Do you know what it's like put your baby to bed at 8 and then get up with him at 10, midnight, 2, 4, and 6?  And during those times you are up with your baby taking at least an hour to get him back to sleep?  So what's really cruel?  Letting your baby have bad sleep habits and not getting the sleep he needs at night or having a few nights of crying, learning how to put himself to bed so when he wakes up in the middle of the night he can put himself back to sleep without your help.  Babies don't sleep 6 to 8 hours without waking up.  They wake up in the middle of the night just like we do and need to learn how to go back to sleep themselves. 

Yeah, but babies can go through that phase and grow out of it naturally. My DS STTN at 7 weeks, and that lasted until 3.5 months. We went through a good month of really lousy sleep like that. Then all of a sudden, he went back to being a good sleeper again.  Babies go through so much developmentally that sometimes they go through phases where they want to be awake more than being asleep. Also, sleep patterns aren't fully formed until over 6 months, so they can go through a phase like that and then work it out on their own. That doesn't necessarily warrant CIO IMO.

ETA: I think there's also a difference between self soothing and leaving a baby to cry at a young age-it's not necessarily self-soothing they're doing, it's more than they think "crap, no one responds to me when I cry at night, I probably shouldn't bother crying."