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No leave for baby shower (Vent)

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Re: No leave for baby shower (Vent)

  • Just on a side note. . . I'm guessing I am talking from a different perspective here. From a big picture standpoint, it is nice to see the general theme of wives (or husbands) being supportive of their SO's military career.
  • oh and lmcase... yes. If his commander says he is required to take basket weaving then it becomes an aspect of DUTY. It is not what we think is important. He is a subordinate and he will obey the orders of those placed in authority over him.

    Maybe I should cut and paste the oath of enlistment.

     

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  • image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    image lmcase:
    Sorry but I think a lot the responses here are crap.  First of all, I don't care why he wants to take leave--it's his RIGHT.  That's correct, while leave isn't guaranteed at a certain time, the fact that he has 17 use or lose says that he doesn't take it that often and use or lose ALWAYS gets preference.   Second, driver's training, really?  That's not service before self, that's his unit jerking him around and his supervisors not giving a rat's ass about there ppl.  If his leave was already approved--there should be a damned good reason to revoke it--not some silly ancillary training.  Look up the leave regs ppl, I'm sure that the Army is similar to the AF--it sounds like he followed the correct procedures and put his leave in well in advance.  I'm so sick of the suck it up attitude . . . just because you join doesn't mean that the rest of your life should be put on hold.  Who the hell do you think will be there at the end of a career--that's right your family.  Sorry but this is a hot button with me.  Not even b/c I've ever really been screwed but b/c I've seen enough of my peers not taking care of their subordinates b/c their afraid to speak up to the unit commander.  

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Army Admin NCO LAUGHING HER ASSS OFF AT YOU RIGHT NOW! You might want to check the regs yourself sweet cheeks. HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    BTW/// its AR 600-8-10 para 2-2.

    Actually, like I said--not sure how the army works because I'm AF!  If you could read, you would see that in the post.  But, I guess that's too difficult for you.  Your one of those drinking the kool-aid, I'll just screw my people b/c it's easier than speaking up and clarifying the situation.  You sound exactly like the type of enlisted that makes me I would hate to work for me.  Just willing to laugh at your subordinates and tell them to suck it up w/o trying to come to an amicable solution.  Keep laughing, I hope that real funny to you.

  • Because my mind works very slowly some days...

    If they weren't married yet, how did she march into the commander's office to demand leave (on her then FI's behalf)?  I wonder if she worked on base or something.  Most commander's secretaries would be all

    Who.Are.hiccup.You????

    image

     

    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    oh and lmcase... yes. If his commander says he is required to take basket weaving then it becomes an aspect of DUTY. It is not what we think is important. He is a subordinate and he will obey the orders of those placed in authority over him.

    Maybe I should cut and paste the oath of enlistment.

     

    Leave is fvcking important!  I never said that the unit can't deny leave, but they should do so in a judicious and thoughtful manner.  NOT for friggin driver's training.  If it is important--yes by all means, leave sometimes gets the axe.  I've had to call and tell ppl to return to the local area or that their leave is no longer able to be supported.  I never did so for training b/c training for my units was always scheduled and alternate time were available.  There are always ppl on leave--you can't just offer trng once and think your going to get everyone--at least in my experience.

  • image lmcase:
    image ames17:

    image lmcase:

    The leave program isn't just for shiits and giggles, it serves a genuine and important purpose.  Unit that have too many ppl w/ use or lose can get into serious trouble.  And I'm sorry, but a wedding isn't something you screw around with.  Maybe she shouldn't have gone into the commander office, but most of my bosses would not have freaked out over this.  They genuinely care about their unit and the spouses.

    If my husband walked into my office to complain about my vacation time I would be horrified. And I'm a graphic designer for eff's sake. There is no way in hell I would go to my husband's commander to complain about his leave and throw (in the OP's words) a bridezilla fit. How childish. It's her husband's job, not hers. I'm sure he could handle it without his princess coming in and throwing a piss-fit in his superiors office.

    Also, the particular thing she's currently "venting" about is a baby shower. Not a wedding. Not a birth. Not a death in the family. A baby shower. She needs to grow up.  

    Doesn't matter what the leave is for . . . it could be to stay at home and wash his car.  His leave, his right.  They were trying to cancel it for training FFS!  And, like I said, I don't think going to the CCs office was the best idea, but it's not the worst thing I've ever seen by far.  She was probably new to the service and honestly, it should never have gotten that far in the first place.  Short of the unit deploying or a serious manpower shortage or something else equally major, I can't imagine telling one of my guys to cancel a wedding.  That's just over the line IMO.  

    "Doesn't matter what the leave is for."

    Well, you know what? It should. 

    "I don't think going to the CCs office was the best idea."

    Major understatement IMO. That is an embarrassment to her husband and shows a real lack of respect for both him and his job.

    "She was probably new to the service."

    I'm new. Not an excuse.  

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  • image lmcase:

    Actually, like I said--not sure how the army works because I'm AF!  If you could read, you would see that in the post.  But, I guess that's too difficult for you.  Your one of those drinking the kool-aid, I'll just screw my people b/c it's easier than speaking up and clarifying the situation.  You sound exactly like the type of enlisted that makes me I would hate to work for me.  Just willing to laugh at your subordinates and tell them to suck it up w/o trying to come to an amicable solution.  Keep laughing, I hope that real funny to you.

    From what I know...ArmyNavy is a kickass Soldier. I don't think I could see her "screwing her people". 

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  • Two things...First, I completely agree that I would never in a 1,000,000 years go my husband's CO to lobby for leave or anything else for that matter.  I would strangle him If he ever did that with my employer. 

     Second, I assume the OP's intention was to vent and I think the name calling is unnecessary and unproductive. 

     

  • image lmcase:
    image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    oh and lmcase... yes. If his commander says he is required to take basket weaving then it becomes an aspect of DUTY. It is not what we think is important. He is a subordinate and he will obey the orders of those placed in authority over him.

    Maybe I should cut and paste the oath of enlistment.

     

    Leave is fvcking important!  I never said that the unit can't deny leave, but they should do so in a judicious and thoughtful manner.  NOT for friggin driver's training.  If it is important--yes by all means, leave sometimes gets the axe.  I've had to call and tell ppl to return to the local area or that their leave is no longer able to be supported.  I never did so for training b/c training for my units was always scheduled and alternate time were available.  There are always ppl on leave--you can't just offer trng once and think your going to get everyone--at least in my experience.

    Leave for your mom's funeral? Important. Leave for a baby shower? Not so much.

    I'm a Key Spouse, and I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior, much less expect my H's COC to tolerate it. I also wouldn't assume that because I'm a Key Spouse that my H and I will get special priveleges.

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  • image lmcase:
    image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    oh and lmcase... yes. If his commander says he is required to take basket weaving then it becomes an aspect of DUTY. It is not what we think is important. He is a subordinate and he will obey the orders of those placed in authority over him.

    Maybe I should cut and paste the oath of enlistment.

     

    Leave is fvcking important!  I never said that the unit can't deny leave, but they should do so in a judicious and thoughtful manner.  NOT for friggin driver's training.  If it is important--yes by all means, leave sometimes gets the axe.  I've had to call and tell ppl to return to the local area or that their leave is no longer able to be supported.  I never did so for training b/c training for my units was always scheduled and alternate time were available.  There are always ppl on leave--you can't just offer trng once and think your going to get everyone--at least in my experience.

    Why can't you expect that? Unless their leave was approved like 5 months in advance, and even then, training is apart of their job. If drivers training is needed, it's needed. Maybe the other classes later on are full (which happens), maybe they could only get him into that one, maybe he needed to requal for some reason and doing so later would non-req him. Who knows?

    Either way:

    1: He ended up getting the leave approved anyway.

    2: Her sense of entitlement and power over her H's career is astonishing.

    3: They weren't denying his leave out of spite, despite what people think. They were denying it because he had shiit to do. AND he still got out of it. Both times.  

    5/100
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  • image MrsOjoButtons:

    Because my mind works very slowly some days...

    If they weren't married yet, how did she march into the commander's office to demand leave (on her then FI's behalf)?  I wonder if she worked on base or something.  Most commander's secretaries would be all

    Who.Are.hiccup.You????

    image

     

    I believe she said in her OP that they were already married, but still having a wedding...

    image Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • Well obviously I'm in the minority with my opinion.  Just understand that my motive is that I only want what's best for the military member AND their family.  My previous posts were due to the fact that it is part of my duty is to ensure the health and well being of the unit as a whole.  The leave program is a vital part of this.  The military has been very good to me and I just want everyone to have feel as though their supervisors and their unit care about them.  While allowing leave is not always possible, I do believe that in today's current ops tempo it is very important to make it a priority.
  • This is exactly why my commands only allow leave projections months in advance.  We can't submit an actual leave request in LeaveWeb until two weeks out.  Then technically it's not denying leave, just denying a leave projection while the member still has time to change their plans. 
    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • image lmcase:
    image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    oh and lmcase... yes. If his commander says he is required to take basket weaving then it becomes an aspect of DUTY. It is not what we think is important. He is a subordinate and he will obey the orders of those placed in authority over him.

    Maybe I should cut and paste the oath of enlistment.

     

    Leave is fvcking important!  I never said that the unit can't deny leave, but they should do so in a judicious and thoughtful manner.  NOT for friggin driver's training.  If it is important--yes by all means, leave sometimes gets the axe.  I've had to call and tell ppl to return to the local area or that their leave is no longer able to be supported.  I never did so for training b/c training for my units was always scheduled and alternate time were available.  There are always ppl on leave--you can't just offer trng once and think your going to get everyone--at least in my experience.

    I realize the Army and the AF are way different.  We are speaking the language of Army today because her H is in the Army.  There have been at least 2 Soldiers (3 now, counting me) that have stated things work a little different with our leave.  The Army really doesn't give a rat's patooty about why we set our leave on certain dates.  They don't care how many days of use or loose leave we have saved up.  They don't care if your baby shower is next weekend.  They don't care if your wedding is next month.  They don't really care if your daddy died and you need to get from GA to CA by tomorrow.  Sometimes they can work with you.  Sometimes they don't.  Training isn't always available on another date.  If you have to do it, you have to do it.  It sucks, but you drink water and drive on. 

    You have just seriously disrespected a very good NCO because you don't understand the way things work in our branch and you owe her an appology. 

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  • image lmcase:
    Well obviously I'm in the minority with my opinion.  Just understand that my motive is that I only want what's best for the military member AND their family.  My previous posts were due to the fact that it is part of my duty is to ensure the health and well being of the unit as a whole.  The leave program is a vital part of this.  The military has been very good to me and I just want everyone to have feel as though their supervisors and their unit care about them.  While allowing leave is not always possible, I do believe that in today's current ops tempo it is very important to make it a priority.

    I think that the OP's entitlement is what all of us are pointing out.

    We aren't saying that her H shouldn't get the leave just because. If for whatever reasons he can get it then sure let him have it. But if there are reasons to not approve (training, re-qualifying, etc) then his wife should accept it and not go up there like she's a SM and demand that things be changed. 

    Had the OP handled things differently the reactions from us would have been different.

    We all want what is best for the SM's.

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  • image MrsOjoButtons:
    This is exactly why my commands only allow leave projections months in advance.  We can't submit an actual leave request in LeaveWeb until two weeks out.  Then technically it's not denying leave, just denying a leave projection while the member still has time to change their plans. 

    My command does this as well. However, if leave gets canceled for a really unnecessary reason it can cause a lot of financial issues for the member. It is unfair for the member if it is for something that isn't mission critical.

  • I agree that it's become pretty obvious to me that the AF and Army are wholly different creatures.  I give you guys props for the amount of hell you go through and the fact that you can't count on your leave being honored.  I am honestly in awe of that and I really had no idea.  As for apologize--I don't think I disrespected her.  She's a big girl and message boards are a way to give honest opinions.  At the very least, if she feels slighted, she has to speak up, but from the looks of her and her intro, I doubt she got her feelings hurt.
  • image lmcase:
    I agree that it's become pretty obvious to me that the AF and Army are wholly different creatures.  I give you guys props for the amount of hell you go through and the fact that you can't count on your leave being honored.  I am honestly in awe of that and I really had no idea.  As for apologize--I don't think I disrespected her.  She's a big girl and message boards are a way to give honest opinions.  At the very least, if she feels slighted, she has to speak up, but from the looks of her and her intro, I doubt she got her feelings hurt.

    Oh, trust me, I'm not worried about her feelings getting hurt.  She's more likely to show the DS side of her.

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  • image lmcase:
    Well obviously I'm in the minority with my opinion.  Just understand that my motive is that I only want what's best for the military member AND their family.  My previous posts were due to the fact that it is part of my duty is to ensure the health and well being of the unit as a whole.  The leave program is a vital part of this.  The military has been very good to me and I just want everyone to have feel as though their supervisors and their unit care about them.  While allowing leave is not always possible, I do believe that in today's current ops tempo it is very important to make it a priority.

    The opinion you've stated here isn't what people are disagreeing with.  The only thing I would interject is that I want what's best for the member, the family, AND the military.  Other than that, I entirely agree with you. 

    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • image lmcase:
    As for apologize--I don't think I disrespected her.  She's a big girl and message boards are a way to give honest opinions.  At the very least, if she feels slighted, she has to speak up, but from the looks of her and her intro, I doubt she got her feelings hurt.

    I doubt you hurt her feelings but saying she's a crappy Soldier (I don't remember your exact words) is unnecessary. 

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  • image lmcase:
    I agree that it's become pretty obvious to me that the AF and Army are wholly different creatures.  I give you guys props for the amount of hell you go through and the fact that you can't count on your leave being honored.  I am honestly in awe of that and I really had no idea.  As for apologize--I don't think I disrespected her.  She's a big girl and message boards are a way to give honest opinions.  At the very least, if she feels slighted, she has to speak up, but from the looks of her and her intro, I doubt she got her feelings hurt.

    Sure they're different, but it's the same story available across all branches. One of my BFF's husband is Navy and his leave was pulled after being in for 3 months because they had an unscheduled exercise coming up and he couldn't leave. It didn't matter that he had plane tickets.

    My H's leave was pulled for our wedding, which sure, we got fixed, but not because I went storming into the offices of his COC to yell, scream, and throw receipts at them. He's in the AF. It happens with all branches.

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  • image blueshirt2003:

    image lmcase:
    As for apologize--I don't think I disrespected her.  She's a big girl and message boards are a way to give honest opinions.  At the very least, if she feels slighted, she has to speak up, but from the looks of her and her intro, I doubt she got her feelings hurt.

    I doubt you hurt her feelings but saying she's a crappy Soldier (I don't remember your exact words) is unnecessary. 

    Just said I don't think that I wouldn't want her to work for me.  Definitely not that's she's a crappy soldier.  But then again, w/my job I'm not exactly getting shot at daily and in that case I might feel differently.  That chica looks like she can handle rough situations, no problem. 

  • image lmcase:
    image ARMYmarriedNAVY:

    image lmcase:
    Sorry but I think a lot the responses here are crap.  First of all, I don't care why he wants to take leave--it's his RIGHT.  That's correct, while leave isn't guaranteed at a certain time, the fact that he has 17 use or lose says that he doesn't take it that often and use or lose ALWAYS gets preference.   Second, driver's training, really?  That's not service before self, that's his unit jerking him around and his supervisors not giving a rat's ass about there ppl.  If his leave was already approved--there should be a damned good reason to revoke it--not some silly ancillary training.  Look up the leave regs ppl, I'm sure that the Army is similar to the AF--it sounds like he followed the correct procedures and put his leave in well in advance.  I'm so sick of the suck it up attitude . . . just because you join doesn't mean that the rest of your life should be put on hold.  Who the hell do you think will be there at the end of a career--that's right your family.  Sorry but this is a hot button with me.  Not even b/c I've ever really been screwed but b/c I've seen enough of my peers not taking care of their subordinates b/c their afraid to speak up to the unit commander.  

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Army Admin NCO LAUGHING HER ASSS OFF AT YOU RIGHT NOW! You might want to check the regs yourself sweet cheeks. HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    BTW/// its AR 600-8-10 para 2-2.

    Actually, like I said--not sure how the army works because I'm AF!  If you could read, you would see that in the post.  But, I guess that's too difficult for you.  Your one of those drinking the kool-aid, I'll just screw my people b/c it's easier than speaking up and clarifying the situation.  You sound exactly like the type of enlisted that makes me I would hate to work for me.  Just willing to laugh at your subordinates and tell them to suck it up w/o trying to come to an amicable solution.  Keep laughing, I hope that real funny to you.

    She's a damn fine NCO and this comment was uncalled for. How dare you attack her integrity and ability to do her job. You have NO idea how much both she and her husband sacrifice for their subordinates. NO IDEA! 

    YOU are the type of enlisted I would never want to work under. While active duty Air Force I've been pulled off of leave before, it happens, we deal. I didn't march into the CC's office and pitch a fit.

    The only thing funny in this particular quote is your poor spelling and grammatical errors.

  • Her sense of entitlement is what gets me.  I understand being upset.  I was upset when I learned that after years of TTC, finally getting lined up to do IVF, DH would be deploying mid-way through the pregnancy and missing the birth and much of our child's first year.  Did I go storming into his branch manager's office and demand that he keep my DH stateside?  Mmmm, no.  I cried and I got over it.  

    And for some internet friends. . . it is spelled RIDICULOUS!  The letter e is not used in the spelling of the word ridiculous.  TYVM.

    Edited because I did not check the rest of the board before coming back to check this thread.  My bad.

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  • I just want to put this out there...at our last place there was a person who was ALWAYS going up the command herself and thought she can change things or that she was doing him some good.  You know what?  Most people think of both of them in a negative way.  Her for not staying in her place and him for letting his wife act like that.  It DOES interfere with his job whether either of you want to believe it or not.  She also has given out all kinds of information about him when she was mad at him.  He is suppose to be a NCO but it is more like she is in charge of his job.  Not good...not good at all.
  • I'm going put this out there, I won't be posting on this board often, though wanting to be a mom someday is why I put in a ground application instead of an aviation application for the MC O program, but I don't think it's appropriate for officers to tell NCOs/SNCOs that they wouldn't want them working for them, even if this is only the internet. 

    I am not in, nor do I want to pretend to be, but I hope I will be. I really hope that I never develop such an attitude with my men. I can imagine that if you would say that to someone you don't even know, that you are more than willing to say something like that to one of your service members. The internet is definitely too public to talk down to an NCO that you don't even know. If the Army sees fit to put her in a billet like Drill Sergeant, than I assume she has been a strong NCO. I trust those who evaluate her. So should you. 

    I've seen a lot of military surprise homecomings. It wouldn't work on me. I always have my back to the corner and my face to the door. Looking for terrorists, criminals, various other threats, and husbands.
  • image

    Oh... and being your military member's wife is not a job in the military, so PP's who say "blank wife... toughest job in the blank military service." Until I get a check from the gov't, It's not a job.
  • You should never step into your SM's CO's office, Let YH deal with his command.. Unless the CO specifically ask for you to come in,  (which I have seen done before, but that's Coast Guard not Army, we work in smaller scale)

    I think it was WAY wrong of you to go into that office and demand he get his leave.. No Way would I ever interfere with my husband's work that way..

    let your husband grow a pair of balls and stand up to his command..

     

     

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  • Let's get a few things straight.

    1. I don't work for Officers. I follow their orders because the UCMJ, Oath of Enlistment and President of the United States require me to.

    2. You have not, nor could you, hurt my feelings.

    3. If a commissioned officer disrespected an NCO such as myself by accusing them of not being able to read, and a "kool-aid drinker" they'd be introduced to a little thing called "Conduct Unbecoming". Being in a position of authority does not give you the right to belittle or degrade.

    (((damn... belittle and degrade are big words for a dumb dumb kool-aid drinker)))

    4. Finally, it is a SOLDIER's responsibility to be aware of their use or lose. It is a SOLDIER's responsibility to take leave throughout the FY. It is a SOLDIER'S DUTY to fulfill their obligations... it is one of the 7 Army Values.

    5. Hugs and kisses... where the hell did the puppies and rainbows go?

    oh yeah... and the OP has a right to vent but she also let on that she oversteps her role. The life of a military spouse is one of SACRIFICE.

  • The military and its operations and what it deems necessary trumps you. Our wedding almost got cancelled as well. I'm not sure DH will be around for the birth, and know many women whose husbands haven't been. I know one guy whose boat wouldn't let him leave and say goodbye to his mom on her deathbed. Was it terribly sad? Yes. Did it suck for him? Yeah. But he signed his life over and said that military operations are more important than his personal life. I think wives do the same thing. On my husband's sub, they will TRY to get husbands there for important events. I trust them to do this and my husband knows how to speak up if he feels like they are being unreasonable. But if they decide his presence is absolutely needed, well my job is to deal with that and not interfere. They have more important things to worry about than what's going on in my and my husband's personal lives. And taking leave is NOT a right. It's time off that a servicemember is only allowed to take when they are no longer deemed a necessary body or when the leave doesn't affect training or operations. I just think that if you're going to be upset about him being absent, there are going to be a lot bigger events in your marriage and life as a family that will be affected by his career than a baby shower. I hope you're prepared... And being an FRG leader does NOT mean you should get extra appreciation or that the command should make more of an effort to him to get home. In the heirarchy of the boat and making things happen, you're not as up there as you think. I don't know about the AF or Army, but in the Navy I would actually say that the higher-ups and their families get LESS opportunity to be around for big events. And if I ever went my CO to complain, A) that would be messing with my DH's career, B) would be insubordinate in my mind (in my mind, he's your CO too), and C) you should have been laughed at. Seriously, do you think that what's going on in your personal life needs to be one of the CO's priority? And don't you think your DH is the best person to know whether or not he is needed, and if he thinks he isn't, that he is the most informed person to discuss it with the CO? The CO is going to have a lot more faith in what your DH has to say than what you do... if the bridal shower is a big deal to your husband and he thinks he isn't needed, I would think that him discussing it with the CO would be the most effective option.
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