Really pi$$ed my MIL off AND question if you're Jewish

Cytina

Last night, my MIL asked me how we were raising the kids.  Mind you, this is a question that we have answered a couple of times prior...  Anyway, I humor her AGAIN and tell her we plan to educate them in both faiths (I am Christian, MH is Jewish).  She then said she thought it would be nice if they went to Hebrew School.  I told her I felt that would be their decision when the time came.  She said "Oh no, I disagree, the parents should decide the religion."  I told her we would have to agree to disagree.  She left the room and nothing more was said, but she was obviously not happy with me. 

I realize a lot of you probably agree with my MIL and that's okay - I'll agree to disagree with you as well!  I just don't agree with forcing a specific religion on a child.  Also, one of my major issues with my IL's is that they are Jewish by birth only... they don't go to Temple ever, they celebrate Passover by just sending a greeting card, in fact they don't observe any of the holy days.  However suddenly when it comes to raising our children or naming them FFS (she told us Henry wasn't Jewish enough, even though she named her own sons very English names), my faith gets completely left by the wayside I feel.  It's not like I'm running out and baptising them either!

Sorry for the tangent, my question is this:  Can a kid go to Hebrew school just to prepare for bar/bat mitzvah, or do they have to attend from kindergarten?  If we would have to enroll them in kindergarten, obviously we'll have to rethink the whole thing because I was thinking we could wait until they were 11 or 12 when they would understand a little better their options.  TIA!

FolanMama

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure they can do it just to prepare for the bar/bat.  I'm not jewish though... I've only been the planner for the bar/bats.  haha.

Lucky_Dragonfly

No you cannot go to hebrew school just to be bar mitzvah'd to my knowledge. I am not jewish and MH. I am not religious but we do celebrate the holidays. We do want DS to go to hebrew school and we also would like him to be named. You learn about lot more in hebrew school then just about the torrah. You also learn about the culture and the history of the faith. the reason for certain holidays and the significance of certain things. You have to learn the language, and read certain prayers as well during your ceremony. since hebrew is character based its harder to learn. You also need to be a member of a temple.

Ultimately it is your decision of what you want to do and not your MIL's

carolinag

Not jewish.. but I wanted to support your way of thinking. My parents were different religions, and neither of them practicing, so when they had me they decided it wasn't their place to chose a religion for me. They let me go to all sorts of different churches w/friends growing up, and really see what was out there. Eventually I chose Catholicism, as most of my family was Catholic, along w/several other factors. However speaking as a child who was in a similar situation as your son will be I find that my faith is even more special to me than a lot of my friends who were just born into it. Were there downsides of not having a religion? Sure. Especially in one of the most Catholic cities in our country. However sometimes I feel like my faith is even more special b/c I chose it for myself. I think you're doing something really great for your child. Let him see the ins and outs of both religions. Diversity is really what makes our world so wonderful, and you're presenting him with a great opportunity to learn about many faiths and ways of life.

*KatieH*

Your mil is bullying you into doing what she wants. Your husband and you came to an agreement on things so imo I would stick with that.  

mom2anangel

I can't answer your question but I just wanted to remind you that these are YOUR children and it is a decision to be made by you and your H.  I would probably have H talk to HIS mom about this.  She made her decisions when she was raising her children, now it is your turn.  Frustrating!  My mom was Methodist and my bio father Catholic so they agreed to just raise me as a Christian and let me decide when I got older.  Then they got divorced and she married my step-dad (who adopted me and is the only one I consider my dad) and he's Catholic as well but agreed that it should be up to me.  Well, they sent me to Catholic school and I was totally turned off by religion completely - felt like it was being forced down my throat.  Fast forward to my late 20's - before I got married I wanted to join a church so I took adult bible class at a Lutheran church (my H's religion) and I agreed with it so I was baptized and confirmed and we go to church almost every Sunday.  We had our DD baptized at birth and she will be raised in the Lutheran Church.  She will probably go to Lutheran school just like DH but when she gets older she can choose if that is right for her. 

Sorry this is long - I guess my main point is that this is YOUR decision and your MIL needs to stay out of it!  LOL

iris427

It may vary by temple but generally Hebrew school and Sunday school are two different things.  At my temple, kids started Hebrew school in 3rd or 4th grade.

 My parents didn't start me in Hebrew school until 2 years after everyone else had started and it SUCKED.  I either had to be in class with 8 year olds (a big difference when you are 10) or stay with my age group and be clueless.  I stayed with my age group and everyone but me knew how to read, write and speak Hebrew already.  I never truly got caught up and it was embarrassing,  I hated it so much I ended up dropping out and never having my Bat Mitzvah.

So if you are going to send your kid to Hebrew school, do it right.  Sunday school is different because it's taught in English.  So starting your kid later isn't a big deal. 

jlynne

My BIL and SIL had a bar/bat at 16 and they did not start going to synagogue until they were 11'ish. They did a year long after service class to learn what they needed to. It was quite extensive from what I remember. But it was their choice to do this.

iris427

Also, my father is the same way.  He is not religious at all and doesn't belong to a temple but he freaks out about whether we're raising our daughter Jewish enough.  When I was 7 weeks pregnant, he called me up and demanded that I promise I would make the baby have a Bar Mitzvah.  I told him no.

Your MIL is trying to bully you just like my father does.  It's not even about religion, it's about control.  Don't give in!!! 

EuroChick

A couple of things to take into consideration 1) Not all sects of Judaism even consider your kid Jewish because you aren't Jewish so honestly decide what you want, your two choices are reform or liberal and even then there may be issues.  PM misjenn for more info 2) However you can't just pop into a Hebrew School at 12 and say I want to prepare for a Bar Mitzvah. You as a family need to make a certain commitment if you want to be part of the community.  If your kids decide they want to be Jewish later on and are generally motivated they will get a lot of support BUT if it is just going through the motions to make some grandparents happy you will have a hard time finding a community willing to accommodate this.

 ETA I think you MIL is being completely in appropriate.  Just so what I said wasn't completely misunderstood.  You can let your kids choose to be involved with the Jewish faith later one BUT it will be a lot of work for them.  Also I wouldn't involve the ILs I mean your DH probably has an opinion about what he want to do. 

Rubygirl

Ah, your MIL is Jewish in the same way that the Olive Garden is Italian, right?

I have to admit, I totally stole that from a book I just read about a guy who was Jewish.  He used the line to describe himself.  

To be honest, your MIL sounds weird.  She's pushing stuff on you that she didn't even do herself with her own kids.  I am raising my son in a particular church, but our church practices learning about (other) world religions as a matter of respect, tolerance, and growth.  I think your approach is fine and nothing you said to her was inflammatory. 

Elana71

Okay, both DH and I are Jewish. You can only study to become a Bar/Bat Mitzvah but I personally feel like that is a waste of time and only a reason to throw a huge party. I think becoming a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a huge accomplishment and it should be earned but that's just me. Yes, your DS can start hebrew school in 3rd or 4th grade. I did.

My suggestion, when the time comes for your DS to start hebrew school join a reform synagogue otherwise there will be stipulations of you participating since you are not Jewish.

 

violetvirgo

i 100% agree with your way of thinking about this.  and your approach. 

i think your MIL has overstepped her boundaries and there should be a hasty family discussion on that stat.  ultimately it's up to you and your H.  not her, not your parents, not the man on the moon.

i'm constantly amazed at how overreaching some people's IL's are.  

Cytina

Elana71:

Okay, both DH and I are Jewish. You can only study to become a Bar/Bat Mitzvah but I personally feel like that is a waste of time and only a reason to throw a huge party. I think becoming a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a huge accomplishment and it should be earned but that's just me. Yes, your DS can start hebrew school in 3rd or 4th grade. I did.

My suggestion, when the time comes for your DS to start hebrew school join a reform synagogue otherwise there will be stipulations of you participating since you are not Jewish.

I agree with you and that's why I want the boys to have more of a say in whether or not they go - if it doesn't have meaning to them, it's just a party and I don't agree with that either.

AmyCC1980

I can't help with your question because I am not Jewish, but I do want to say that I agree with you.  Religion is a personal choice that everyone needs to make for themselves.  My DH is a prime example.  The ILs are Southern Baptists.  Growing up DH spent sooooo much time in church.  It was forced down this throat at every opportunity.  Now it's like he has done a 180.  He pretty much refuses to step foot in a church unless its for a wedding or funeral.  I don't want DD to be like that.  I want to expose her to as much as I can and try to teach her to have an open mind.  I want her to decide for herself what she believes. 

skittles_123

I was raised just as you plan on raising your dc. Mom was Christian, Dad was Jewish, but neither one really practiced their faith. I was allowed to choose at whatever age I felt comfortable making that decision. I got baptized when I was in college, my choice. My parents still respect my decision to this day. I think what you are doing is the right way, the decision must ultimately be theirs.

melissaandgreg

I am Jewish, my husband is not. we agreed to raise dd jewish. she was named in a temple at birth and if we had a boy, he would have had a bris. i dont think it is right of your mil to become involved. however, i think if you want to raise them jewish- which i dont think you do- you will need to enroll your dc way before 11 to go to hebrew school. i was raised conservately and i went starting at the age of 7. You have to learn a whole new language and be able to read the Torah at your bar/bat mitzvah! you also learn all about traditions and culture and this is not something that is learned at the age of 11 for a bar/bat mitzvah. if you dont care about doing a bar/bat mitzvah, you can enroll dc later on for a "sunday school" but they wont learn the extent of what you would learn at a hebrew school. i grew up conservately and could still read the torah if asked b.c of all the schooling. it is important to me that my dc learn this and my dh is on board. it is not a question of if she wants to at a young age- she is going to! she can then decide to marry outside the religion or race like i did, but i want her to be educated about our background an hopefully continue with it in her life.

LaurenL1976

Jewish moms are the worst.  I know, I have one.  My family is by no means super religious.  They haven't belonged to a temple since my brother and I were bar and bat mitzvahed.  Yet they freaked out when we didn't do a baby naming for DD.  (There was too much crazy drama, and I wanted no part of them throwing a crazy party....)

Both DH and I are Jewish.  But we are going to let our daughter decide what she wants to do. 

I believe I started Hebrew School at 8/9.   If I remember correctly, it was two weekdays and Sunday morning. (Reform) I wanted a bat mitvah after I went to my cousin's, and had a blast.  It was my choice.

Don't let her bully you, its your child and you decide what's right.

Banana44

I didn't read all the responses, so if I mimic other, I apologize.  I am Catholic and MH is Jewish.  We agreed before our marriage that the children would be raised Catholic, but we would also teach them the Jewish faith because it is part of their culture.

My DD had a naming ceremony and baptism on the same day.  Her hebrew name is Addaya Nava, and she was baptised as Cecelia.  My ILs were horribly rude and condescending during both the naming and the baptism.  They believe that we have to pick one and stick with it.  My DH and I believe that our children should know both faiths!  We celebrate all holidays - which makes our house very busy - we have seder on Monday and then Easter dinner on Sunday. 

We have not yet decided about Hebrew school, but I am not opposed to it.  I believe it will help our children learn about Judiasm and bring them closer to their father - especially since we have agreed to send the kids to Catholic gradeschool. 

You need to make your own decisions and do not let your in-laws affect you!  Do what is right for your family - they already had the chance to make decisions for their children.

As far as Hebrew school, I believe they can go for as long or as short an amount of time as they want.  MH said most kids stop going after bar/bat mitvah -  but they do not all start in kindergarten.  He didn't start until he was in 2rd or 4th grade.

 

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CA2006

I am Catholic and DH is Jewish so I totally understand what you are going through.  we have the same philosophy you do and when anyone asks how we are raising DS, we always answer "educated". I want him to know where his mom and dad each came from and what our respective religious beliefs are.  DH's family is "more Jewish" than it sounds like your IL's are and I know it bothers them to some extent. But we don't talk or argue about it.  And honestly, if we were to go by the "rules" of the Jewish faith, DS would be raised Catholic (as I am Catholic).  So I consider it a pretty great compromise that we didn't just go that direction.

I do try to respect their beliefs and cushion the blow a lot though. Yes, it is your decision to make and it's your family. But it is a big deal to them, which I try to respect. Do your IL's have a daughter or any other children besides your DH?  That could play into it, too.  I know with my IL's, they have DH and his brother.  I am Catholic and BIL's live-in girlfriend is Christian.  Being raised Jewish (MIL is the daughter of a rabbi), it has to be upsetting to them to some degree that their sons won't be 100% practicing the faith with their families.  So we incorporate pieces of the faith into our lives as a family and I support when they want DS to be involved in holiday celebrations, etc. and really show a lot of respect for DS's Jewish heritage.  SO far, they seem to be ok with it.  If they start asking about Hebew school though, we may have an issue

KimboRambo

I'm not going to say one way or another what you should do, but becoming bar/bat mitzvah is not an "end point", rather it's the beginning of a lifelong commitment to Judaism. It cannot exist in vacuum successfully, even though many people experience do it and then disconnect from Judaism all together. Being a part of the Jewish people and a community - in whatever way is appropriate and meaningful to you (whether its more liberal judaism or strict orthodoxy) - is a dynamic lifelong experience.  In other words, its not just a decision to become bar/bat mitzvah (because in that case you CAN prepare over the course of a year or so to do it), but rather a decision to BE Jewish in all that entails beyond the bar/bat mitzvah. 

Cytina

KimboRambo:

I'm not going to say one way or another what you should do, but becoming bar/bat mitzvah is not an "end point", rather it's the beginning of a lifelong commitment to Judaism. It cannot exist in vacuum successfully, even though many people experience do it and then disconnect from Judaism all together. Being a part of the Jewish people and a community - in whatever way is appropriate and meaningful to you (whether its more liberal judaism or strict orthodoxy) - is a dynamic lifelong experience.  In other words, its not just a decision to become bar/bat mitzvah (because in that case you CAN prepare over the course of a year or so to do it), but rather a decision to BE Jewish in all that entails beyond the bar/bat mitzvah. 

I agree with this - and that's another reason I want the boys to choose.  I feel that by choosing to have a bar mitzvah, they are choosing to be part of the Jewish community.  Therefore I don't want to deprive them of the timely opportunity to study for it by not choosing a path for them.

Wassygirl

you decide how you raise your kids and nobody else. your mil is wrong.

i will say that as a jewish person mostly by culture, i feel it is important to teach religion for identity's sake.

Erin0528

carolinag:

Not jewish.. but I wanted to support your way of thinking. My parents were different religions, and neither of them practicing, so when they had me they decided it wasn't their place to chose a religion for me. They let me go to all sorts of different churches w/friends growing up, and really see what was out there. Eventually I chose Catholicism, as most of my family was Catholic, along w/several other factors. However speaking as a child who was in a similar situation as your son will be I find that my faith is even more special to me than a lot of my friends who were just born into it. Were there downsides of not having a religion? Sure. Especially in one of the most Catholic cities in our country. However sometimes I feel like my faith is even more special b/c I chose it for myself. I think you're doing something really great for your child. Let him see the ins and outs of both religions. Diversity is really what makes our world so wonderful, and you're presenting him with a great opportunity to learn about many faiths and ways of life.

I totally agree.  Well said. 

SuwaneeGirl

Parents have to choose religion for their children... to a certain extent. I grew up with my mom taking us to church through college. When I started my own household, I made my own decisions. I enjoyed church and the social aspect of it, so it wasn't a big deal to me.

I think your situation, with Christian and Jewish backgrounds, is kind of neat. You have an opportunity to teach your children about both traditions. Christianity was started by Jews. It really helps to understand Christian traditions if you understand the Jewish traditions, too. Plus, almost all of the teachings are not mutually exclusive.

I think knowing about other cultures is a big advantage. It helps your cultural literacy and it helps you understand why people do things the way they do. I think Hebrew school would be nothing but a positive thing for your child. I can guarantee you that you won't be the first family in your situation to talk to a rabbi. Besides, Judiasm is part of your child's culture. I wouldn't deny it to him just because you don't like the way your MIL is addressing this with you and her own seemingly lapsed Judiasm. But you are right to consider the (serious) implications of Hebrew school, too. I think talking with a few rabbis would really help you out here.

By the way... even though my husband hasn't set foot in a Catholic church in years, he still regards himself as Catholic. It's as cultural for him as being a Danish Lutheran is to my family. Sometimes, the culture just comes with the faith, and they are pretty hard to separate.