Can I just say something about flu shots please?

amjmp

I really didn't want to add another post about this topic but I feel I need to address a few things.  This is in response to some misconceptions I am reading from other bumpies.  I feel obligated as a healthcare professional to get this off my chest!

First and foremost I encourage all pregnant women to get the REGULAR flu vaccine this year.  (I read a some posts of people saying they weren't going to.)  (I'm not talking about swine flu).  Why?

1. Pregnant women have altered immune systems - we are more susceptible to getting the flu just b/c we're pregnant.  Even if you've never had flu in the past, you are more likely to get it now.  You are also at risk to get complications from the flu which could prose problems with the baby.

2. We are in our 2nd tri - meaning our babies will be born during high flu season and infants (born without immune systems) can die of complications from the flu. If you get the flu shot while pregnant you may pass antibodies to your baby and that could help prevent your infant stay protected from the flu after birth.

Now, here's my thought about swine flu (I know you didn't ask, lol).  I understand it's new - that's scary.  I am scared about it too.  Keep in mind these things when talking to you doctor about it:

1. There are still a few months left before this vaccine would be administerd so there is likely research data (such as animal trials) haven't been available yet.  Our doctors should be keeping their eyes peeled.

2. No flu vaccine (or any drug for that matter) has EVER been tested on pregnant women.  We don't do that!  So it wont get "tested"

3.  The flu vaccine changes every year - it's ALWAYS a NEW vaccine.  The inactive compenents remain the same.  What changes about the vaccine is what STRAIN(s) it kills (ie H1N1 for swine flu).  It's my assumption that this swine flu vaccine should be similar in chemistry to all the other flu vaccines we've been administering to pregnant women for years. (again that's just my assumption and I'm waiting to see the literature on that).

 

Sorry this was long but I really felt the need to say something, hope it helps some of you anyways.

::steps off box::

RickeyandDani

Very informative and perfect timing because I was wondering about this!

Shannonlea

I plan to discuss the flu shot (including the shot for H1N1) with my OB at my next appointment to see if she recommends the shot for me

LuckyBride06

I asked my doctor yesterday about the swine flu shot and she said pretty much the same thing. She just told me to get the regular flu shot in October.

Kingston54

The whole topic is very overwhelming for me!  I am going to discuss it with our doctor at my 20 week appointment and trust that he will give me the best advice! 

epphd

You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.  There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.  And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.

Your point about the H1N1 vax being similar to the seasonal flu vax is a good one - however, I do feel like it is being comparatively hastily formulated and the fact it hasn't entered human trials yet makes me reluctant to be among the first to receive it.

My husband and I are both scientists (in fact, DH is a scientist who studies anti-viral defenses and the immune system), and while your points are completely accurate and valid, there is also truth to the fact that flu is, in the vast majority of cases, an inconvenience - not a death sentence.  My concern is over the public's general panic over what amounts to a wimpy virus.

Thanks for sharing your perspective

 

boomom

Thank you!

I am planning to get both, if they're available.

DH read on the NIH website (we both work in research) that they are currently testing 3 vaccines - one H1N1 but with the same adjuvents as the normal flu vaccine and 2 of JUST vaccine, no adjuvents. I hope I worded this right, because it came from him, I didn't read it myself, so if I'm wrong, someone correct me please. Immunology isn't my area, but its his, so he's been trying to calm me down about it. He did point out that importance of me getting it and passing antibodies on to the baby through breastfeeding, since it seems they won't vaccinate until 6 months, which would be after flu season anyways.?

rcollier_17

Very informative ladies. Thanks for sharing.

IlovemyGeek

I'm never going to get a flu shot, I don't care if they come out with a monkey flu. Every time my mom gets the flu shot, she gets the flu, so if I have this compromised immune system I'm practically guaranteed to get it if I, get the shot. I've never gotten the flu (knock on wood); now if they come out with a shot to keep me from getting tonsillitis I'd be on board that one, but the flu, I'm gonna pass.

boomom

epphd:You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.? There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.? And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.Your point about the H1N1 vax being similar to the seasonal flu vax is a good one - however, I do feel like it is being comparatively hastily formulated and the fact it hasn't entered human trials yet makes me reluctant to be among the first to receive it.My husband and I are both scientists (in fact, DH is a scientist who studies anti-viral defenses and the immune system), and while your points are completely accurate and valid, there is also truth to the fact that flu is, in the?vast?majority of cases, an inconvenience - not a death sentence.? My concern is over the public's general panic over what amounts to a wimpy virus.Thanks for sharing your perspective ?

?

Thank you, too!?

Off topic - do you find living with an immunologist makes you a bit of a germophobe? Because it makes me one! I work in genetics/genomics so immunology isn't an area I'm strong in. It's funny though because then DH says, germs aren't ALL bad, you need some of them!

FLVintageBride

epphd:

You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.  There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.  And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.

Your point about the H1N1 vax being similar to the seasonal flu vax is a good one - however, I do feel like it is being comparatively hastily formulated and the fact it hasn't entered human trials yet makes me reluctant to be among the first to receive it.

My husband and I are both scientists (in fact, DH is a scientist who studies anti-viral defenses and the immune system), and while your points are completely accurate and valid, there is also truth to the fact that flu is, in the vast majority of cases, an inconvenience - not a death sentence.  My concern is over the public's general panic over what amounts to a wimpy virus.

Thanks for sharing your perspective

 

Yes, you could be vaccinated against the "wrong" strain in any given year from the regular shot, but given that there are known risks from not getting the shot, while potential risks from getting it are just speculation at this point- I'd want to air on the side of caution. 

As for the swine flu, the pattern of flu strains that appear first in the spring is that they have the potential to become more dangerous during the next flu season.  Just b/c the mortality rates have been "relatively" low so far doesn't mean they will stay that way.  Since we know that the Swine flu stands a pretty decent chance of still being around come "flu season"- I'd think there's an even more compelling case for getting that vaccine than there is even for the normal annual flu shot.

liv97

IlovemyGeek:

I'm never going to get a flu shot, I don't care if they come out with a monkey flu.

This.  I don't believe in them. 

amjmp

epphd-

You're absolutely right about the sinlge strain problem, sorry I forgot to mention that in my rambling!  Although I still think it's worth getting the vaccine for the possbility of protection.  I get one every year but mainly because I enounter elderly through work, and DH has pretty bad asthma, so I hate to pass something along to him,

I agree with you also on the hastily of the vaccine production.  I'm hoping they come out with some data before flu shot season.  Your reasoning is precisely my reasoning for admitting that I was scared too in my original post

ablou

I've never gotten a flu shot in my life, and have never gotten the flu.  However, I will be getting a flu shot this year.  I'm going back to work in a school, and DH works in a church... lots of germs!

 My mom had the flu when my teeth were developing in utero, and i was born with no enamel on my baby teeth! Having the flu can jack up your pregnancy and kill your baby after it's born, so I'm taking every precaution possible.

hanson4

finally some intelligent input on this.  Also I would add 1. they ARE doing human trials, they are currently signing people up in several locations nationwide (one trial is in my hometown, at St. Louis University) and they are currently enrolling individuals.  So the first day of shot distribution it's not like you'll be the first person to ever get the shot.  2.  You cannot get the flu from the flu shot.  You cannot.  Your mother didn't, no one does.  The flu virus is not alive in the flu vaccine and therefore cannot infect you.  You may have a reaction to the shot that gives you flu-like symptoms, but that is far milder than active infection with the flu.  If you get the shot and still get the real flu anyway, as a PP noted, it's likely you were infected with a strain not covered by that shot.

Just talk to your doctors and try to keep an open mind about what's best for you and your baby.

epphd

boomom:

epphd:

You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.  There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.  And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.

Your point about the H1N1 vax being similar to the seasonal flu vax is a good one - however, I do feel like it is being comparatively hastily formulated and the fact it hasn't entered human trials yet makes me reluctant to be among the first to receive it.

My husband and I are both scientists (in fact, DH is a scientist who studies anti-viral defenses and the immune system), and while your points are completely accurate and valid, there is also truth to the fact that flu is, in the vast majority of cases, an inconvenience - not a death sentence.  My concern is over the public's general panic over what amounts to a wimpy virus.

Thanks for sharing your perspective

 

 

Thank you, too! 

Off topic - do you find living with an immunologist makes you a bit of a germophobe? Because it makes me one! I work in genetics/genomics so immunology isn't an area I'm strong in. It's funny though because then DH says, germs aren't ALL bad, you need some of them!

boomom- just the opposite for me!  Now I have such confidence in our immune systems (when they are intact, of course).  Funny because DH IS a total germphobe.   I hear ya about not being on the same page in terms of research - my training is in neuroscience, so DH and I were in the most heavily jargonated fields possible, and could hardly follow each others' research.  Strangely, since I moved away from the bench after my postdoctoral work and now write grants at a cancer research center, I find myself more fluent in immunology than I ever have been

Yea for geeky science couples

ETA: FLVintage - yes, there is always the potential for the swine flu to come back with a vengeance, but this strain doesn't seem to have the virulence genes that made the Spanish flu, for instance, so deadly.  True, things could change.  I don't object to people taking the vaccine, but I also think it is reasonable not to.  There is no clear cut "smart" or stupid path to take.  There is no right answer here.  If this was smallpox or cholera or TB, I'd be first to sign up. But even though I have chronic asthma, I think I will stick with fastidious personal hygeine unless more information comes out.

Hanson - yes, they are enrolling patients now, but human clinical trials are time consuming and since they are just now starting, we will have only the barest of information on safety and efficacy by the time the vax is publically available.  And as the OP pointed out, trials are never performed on pregnant women, so we will really would be guinnea pigs for our particular demographic.

ToledoDeux

hanson4:

2.  You cannot get the flu from the flu shot.  You cannot.  Your mother didn't, no one does.  The flu virus is not alive in the flu vaccine and therefore cannot infect you.  You may have a reaction to the shot that gives you flu-like symptoms, but that is far milder than active infection with the flu.  If you get the shot and still get the real flu anyway, as a PP noted, it's likely you were infected with a strain not covered by that shot.

Ditto.  It's so frustrating that people still believe this.  And I will add that their reaction to the strain they did catch was likely lessened by the fact that they got the flu shot for the other strain.

Anna&Matt

If I could get the flu shot(s) I would but I am very allergic to the chicken byproducts they use as fillers in the vaccines. Found this out in college when I decided to take advantage of the free flu shot vaccines and my arm swelled to 3 times it size, complete with hives and I went into shock. So yeah, no flu shots for me.

amjmp

ToledoDeux:

hanson4:

2.  You cannot get the flu from the flu shot.  You cannot.  Your mother didn't, no one does.  The flu virus is not alive in the flu vaccine and therefore cannot infect you.  You may have a reaction to the shot that gives you flu-like symptoms, but that is far milder than active infection with the flu.  If you get the shot and still get the real flu anyway, as a PP noted, it's likely you were infected with a strain not covered by that shot.

Ditto.  It's so frustrating that people still believe this.  And I will add that their reaction to the strain they did catch was likely lessened by the fact that they got the flu shot for the other strain.

yes!!! thank you for posting this!

jenny1980

epphd:

boomom:

epphd:

You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.  There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.  And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.

Your point about the H1N1 vax being similar to the seasonal flu vax is a good one - however, I do feel like it is being comparatively hastily formulated and the fact it hasn't entered human trials yet makes me reluctant to be among the first to receive it.

My husband and I are both scientists (in fact, DH is a scientist who studies anti-viral defenses and the immune system), and while your points are completely accurate and valid, there is also truth to the fact that flu is, in the vast majority of cases, an inconvenience - not a death sentence.  My concern is over the public's general panic over what amounts to a wimpy virus.

Thanks for sharing your perspective

 

 

Thank you, too! 

Off topic - do you find living with an immunologist makes you a bit of a germophobe? Because it makes me one! I work in genetics/genomics so immunology isn't an area I'm strong in. It's funny though because then DH says, germs aren't ALL bad, you need some of them!

boomom- just the opposite for me!  Now I have such confidence in our immune systems (when they are intact, of course).  Funny because DH IS a total germphobe.   I hear ya about not being on the same page in terms of research - my training is in neuroscience, so DH and I were in the most heavily jargonated fields possible, and could hardly follow each others' research.  Strangely, since I moved away from the bench after my postdoctoral work and now write grants at a cancer research center, I find myself more fluent in immunology than I ever have been

Yea for geeky science couples

I didn't know you were in fundraising! I am too. :-)

 

jessloveschase08

Good to know! I guess I'll be sitting with the old folks at the pharmacy this year!

epphd

jenny1980:

  I didn't know you were in fundraising! I am too. :-)

OMG, that's hilarious!  Yea, I picked the wrong year to get into development   I love it though.  I'll love it even more when the economy picks up!  I guess we should just be happy to still have jobs, right?

kuzzu25

epphd:

You should also point out, however, that the seasonal flu vaccine is effective against only one strain of flu - the one that is predicted to be most widespread at the height of flu season.  There have been years in whichthe "wrong" strain is chosen.  And in any year, since multiple strains of seasonal flu can exist in a given year, seasonal flu vax is not a guaranteed protection against flu.

They usually put 3 strains in the vaccine.  Just an FYI.  But you're right, they're guessing based on what's making it's way around the world, quite a while ahead of time so there's always room for them to guess wrong.  That being said, I think they make pretty educated guesses on this most of the time.  I'm not sure I understand the fear with "swine" flu vaccine, because it's an H1N1 strain...(a particularly mild strain too).  This has been around for a LONG time, just not this particular one.  Most of the Influenza A last year was H1N1, but was not swine flu.  Any flu vaccine they give pregnant ladies will be attenuated (killed) so you should NOT get the flu when you're given the vaccine.

IlovemyGeek

All I know is that I once interned for someone in college whose MIL was dying  from the flu shot from a rare allergic reaction, she had an unknown allergy and was slowly becoming paralyzed because of her reaction to it.  Nothing will compel me to get one.

jenny1980

epphd:

jenny1980:

  I didn't know you were in fundraising! I am too. :-)

OMG, that's hilarious!  Yea, I picked the wrong year to get into development   I love it though.  I'll love it even more when the economy picks up!  I guess we should just be happy to still have jobs, right?

Definitely!

I was promoted last spring (now in charge of my dept) and was like, "Great! I get an economic collapse my first year on the job."

We're staring a Campaign soon, so I hope this year is better. :0

 

lovebug630

Thanks for sharing with everyone. This is exactly what my doctor said when I asked him about it yesterday!

etude de la vie

THANK YOU !! I have been reading all the posts on this board and as a Scientist I am amazed people are naive about viruses and discount flu shots. 

We should remember the 1918 flu pandemic which was a subtype of H1N1  where 50-100 million people died!! 

 I 100% agree we should get vaccinated! pregnant women's immune system is entirely different and most of us will be having newborns during the peak of the flu season.  

I spoke with a Dr. friend working for the World Health Organization and he advised me to definitely get the shot but be cautious.... don't be the first in line for the shot but don't wait to long. A lot of vaccines are created on a trail/error basis and sometimes researchers need to work out some kinks before feeling confident with the vaccine.

Thank you again for posting 

Califlorida

i seriously all you scientists, researchers and experts in the medical field.  it's nice to know you're cruising around these boards with helpful information for hypochondriacs like myself. 

mcdermom

thanks for the info and your dog is adorable!