What do you think of this agreement?
taagent
member
This is to acknowledge a change in the custody arrangement regarding the minor child DN. This agreement is between VI(Mother) and SN(Father). Until such time as a new agreement has been put into writing and signed by both parents this custody agreement will remain in effect.
SN(Father) will have primary custody of the minor child, and will have the authority to make any decisions regarding the minor child with input from VI(Mother) concerning major decisions. In addition the Father will have full physical custody of the minor child and will be allowed to register the minor child at the school of his choosing. TAAGENT (Father's Wife)will have the authority to make decisions and act on the Father's behalf if the Father is not available to do so.
VI(Mother) will have visitation of the minor child beginning Friday evenings and ending Sunday 5pm, at a location of her choosing on the following conditions.
1. The minor child is to have NO contact with DM until such time as M has entered into counseling as a result of threats made against the minor child. M, must follow the recommendations made by said counselor in regards to maintaining appointments and taking any and all medications as prescribed for conditions including but not limited to ADHD.
2. VI(Mother) is to provide proof to SN(Father) that this condition is being met by way of either bills, or a letter from the counselor. The Father will have the right to call the counselor at any time to ensure that appointments are being kept but will not have access to any other confidential information regarding the condition or treatment of M.
If these conditions are met the minor child will be allowed contact with M under the following stipulations.
1. The minor child and M are to have separate sleeping quarters.
2. The minor child and M are to be supervised by an adult at ALL times. They are not to be left alone together at any time under any circumstances.
If these stipulations are not met the Mother will no longer be allowed overnight visitation and the Father can choose to require visitation by the Mother to be supervised by a person of the Father's choosing.
If all conditions and stipulations agreed upon are being satisfactorily met, and M is adequately improving according to her counselor, the minor child will be allowed to spend the second week of Christmas break with the Mother if the minor child chooses to do so.
If the minor child feels comfortable and all conditions and stipulations agreed upon are being satisfactorily met, and M is adequately improving
according to her counselor, after the January 1st,
2010 the Mother's visitation of the minor child will be extended. The Mother's Visitation will be Friday evening until Monday morning (pick ups and drop offs will occur at school, when school is in session and at another agreed upon location if school is not in session.) as long as the Mother can get the minor child to school on time.
If all conditions and stipulations agreed upon are being satisfactorily met, and M is adequately improving according to her counselor, the minor child will be allowed to spend the week of Spring Recess with the Mother, if the minor child chooses to do so.
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What do you think?
Re: What do you think of this agreement?
Do you know the background of Taangent's story? I would assume by your answer that you do not.....perhaps you should find a different post.
I think it sounds very good. It is clear and I don't see how anything can me misunderstood.
Good luck...I am pulling for you!
When I went through my divorce and then had to take a "how to be a single parent" class, I heard a lot of stuff about how visitation isn't up to the kid and shouldn't be presented as an option. I've read most of your posts about your situation and I understand why the stipulation has been added, I just thought I'd post what I heard from my lawyer.
I totally understand why you put this together and think that's a good idea, but I do think that a lawyer would never advise the biomom to agree to something like this. It puts all the burden on her and basically takes away most of her rights. If you can pull it off, good for you and your SD.
I know you've referenced working with an attorney.. Has your attorney reviewed this? Have you talked about what your legal recourse would be if the biomom errs from the agreement?
I hope you get custody of the little girl. I just fear that if the mom gets an attorney, she'll want to be assured of some rights, and you'll end up with an uphill battle. And things can really change on a dime?my ex wasn't originally even going to get his own attorney in our divorce. Then he did, and all sorts of stuff he'd previously agreed to do went out the window, it escalated and turned into a 2-year nightmare.
I was thinking about the same thing, but my concern is her being able to lock the door on BM or her bf, if she got mad or in trouble, instead of her being able to use it to get away from the other child if she needed to.
I think that I will add something about that, she needs to be able to lock her door from the inside.
The only reason that I added "If SD wants to go..." is because if she continues to be afraid, DH and I don't want to force her to go because it is her time with BM. We of course want her to go if she feels comfortable enough, this isn't about taking BM away from her, it has never been the point. It is that right now BM isn't make good decisions and isn't making a real attempt at keeping her safe.
I don't think lawyers will get involved. As far as me talking to one, it was just a question of is there anything we need to be careful of, that was the only question I asked, and she made a couple of suggestions based on that. Other than that I have worded everything to be explicitly clear of expectations. As far as putting the burden on BM - at this point it NEEDS to be on her. She needs to prove to us (well DH really) that SD is safe in her care, and at this point, with her not seeing a problem with the kids still being around eachother while the other girl doesn't get help, we don't believe that SD is safe, and honestly, SD doesn't feel safe.
I understand what you are saying and if I were the biomom I probably wouldn't sign it, however, her other option is flat out that the kids have absolutely no contact with each other and she can continue 50/50 custody.
Also, I wanted to say that this whole thing is temporary. Our goal is to get the other girl help and get back to 50/50 custody like it has been.
I think that as far as her rights are concerned, in actuality it will be much more lienient than this is making it out to be but we want to protect ourselves if needed and this gives us that ability.
This honestly isn't about power, we are also not looking to benefit - we want SD TO BE safe! We want SD to FEEL safe!
I recognize I have no rights, does it bother me, maybe... but after reading Sabrina's post from the other day where an officer SUGGESTED her name be added to the paperwork so that she could act for her DH, I thought it would be a good idea.
I am sorry if you think that this comes across as taking BM out of the picture - but if you were in our shoes and the BM has done NOTHING to ensure the safety of your SD, and doesn't see that there is an issue and her child is afraid to be at her house - that you wouldn't do the same thing?!
As a parent, I totally 100% understand how you're feeling and if I EVER got wind that my kid was in any danger when he visited his biodad and his family, I'd yank him out of there and get to a lawyer's office faster than you could say "no more visitation for you."
My understanding if the whole thing about not giving your kid an option is that pediatricians or child behavior specialists feel like when you give the kid an option, it's opening the door to alienating them from the parent, which is a big no-no legally. Even when you're divorced, parents are still supposed to somehow magically unify in terms of childcare. (My ex doesn't at all participate in parenting.. I doubt he even knows where my son goes to school.. I'm just saying.)
As parents (or stepparents..whatever), you guys feel that the biomom must show you that she can provide a safe home. Legally, I think that the onus would be on you and your husband to prove that your stepdaughter is in danger and that the mother isn't appropriately parenting. And from what you've posted, I don't think you'd have any trouble proving that the girl is afraid for her safety. I think that while you could easily get the custody agreement and visitation altered, you probably wouldn't get everything you're asking for in that agreement. Or if you did, you'd have to make certain compromises. What if you were to make some specific concessions?such as that on a certain date all parties would sit down and revisit the agreement? Or that if the other girl shows improvement, ABC restrictions would be lifted?
I think that if you have specific consequences, you should include those. Ex, if the mom doesn't abide by XYZ requirements, a motion will be filed to amend the legal custody agreement.
If the biomom were to go get a lawyer, she could contend that you guys are alienating the daughter from her and that you illegally attempted to change the custody agreement that's on file with the state.
If you don't want to involve lawyers, are there maybe mediation options? I would just HATE for you to get to a certain point on this road and then for legal implications to start to appear. When I was working with my lawyer on my custody agreement, there were SO many specifics about things I couldn't or shouldn't do because it would open the door to HIM making a play for custody. Seriously, one of the reasons I left him was because I felt like he was abusive to the baby, and if I didn't follow state laws pretty precisely, he'd have an opening to contend he was the better custodial parent.
Before you draw up anything even semi-official and have her sign it or have it notarized or whatever, I'd try to get a friend or family member who's a lawyer or who has a legal background to look it over and make sure that you are doing exactly what you need to do to ensure that you get long-term custody so you can protect her.
Sorry if I'm being a downer or unnecessarily complicating things! If it sounds like she's agreeing to this and you think she'll stand by it, then all the legal stuff is probably irrelevant. I think that what you're doing is admirable. One of the reasons I married my husband was because I could see that he loved my son. I'm sure it's the same for your husband, because it's obvious how much you care about your stepdaughter!
There is no paperwork on file with the state with any kind of custody since they were never married.
The plan was to revisit going back to 50/50 custody next summer as long as certain conditions were maintained (ie counseling/meds), it was left open on purpose because I didn't want to say, everything will go back to normal on this date, since we don't know what the future holds.
I completely understand why it shouldn't be put on the kids to choose, however, how would it be better worded then if SD doesn't feel safe enough to spend that time with BM and the other child?
I don't think we would mind lifting the stipulation that the kids have to be supervised at all times, down the road if everything is going okay...
I appreaciate your input, in my former career I learned you ask for the world and hopefully get just what you want because it looks like you are compromising... so it may be reaching for the stars but then we have somewhere to go from there.
When people mention terminating rights, I think there are a few points that allude to at best a reduction in her parental rights. I can't be sure what anyone else is referring to, but as a parent, here are the things that would raise my eyebrows..
This kind of language makes it sound like the father will make decisions and has the option of including biomom in the decision. Giving her input isn't the same as equal ground, which is what a parent legally has the right to have unless their parental rights are somehow in question.
If I recall, isn't the girl the daughter of the biomom's boyfriend? Does the mother have any legal rights or responsibilities for this child? If she doesn't, I don't think that you can make her custody depend on what this girl does or doesn't do. To remove her rights of having overnight visits is big.. I don't think this can legally be accomplished without proving to a judge that the daughter is truly in danger.
In terms of you having the right to act in your husband's stead, I don't think that any court would have a problem with that. Your husband can sign a power of attorney type document that would legally allow you to do that. It doesn't require a lawyer, you can just get it notarized. My parents have the legal ability to act for me and to do something like take my kid to the ER if he's injured. It's an important thing, and I think all of this aside, you should take care of that.
As far as the language giving your SD the option about staying with her mom, it's tough. As I said, I totally understand why you included it. If the mom can provide a safe/appropriate environment for the girl, it's the mom's right to spend time with her. It's not the girl's right to say she doesn't want to go. If she can't, then your husband has a legal right to pursue custody, but I think he/you should go about it legally and get it on file with the state.
Ya, the child has been threatened and doesn't feel safe. BM isn't serious about making the proper arrangements to make sure her kids are safe. BF and SM are. Yup just screams BF and SM trying to take advantage of the situation.
Turning this into something that heavily benefits BF and SM would have been immediately calling the cops, filling a report and running straight to court. BF and SM here have taken their time to think and act clearly, speak to BM and plan for SD's well being.
The reason why we are hanging her custody on what the other child does or does not do is because they are/were living together. So, anything the other child does or does not do (receive counseling/taking or not taking her meds) can place SD in danger. The reason for removing overnights is because the other child said that she would kill SD in her sleep.
As far as the legal rights, we don't want to have to ask her for permission to do every little thing, which is why it states big decisions she will have input, but since she would be with us the majority of the time DH should be able to have a final say.
As I said before, BM has another option, choose her daughter over her boyfriend. THen she can have 50/50 custody no problem. But even at THIS point, where SD told her SUNDAY NIGHT that she is afraid being around her, BM wants to put the two kids together on thursday... That is why we question her judgement and parenting ability.
Ok, to respond to your original question. Just a couple of notes I have.
1. The note about making decisions with input on major decisions: I would outline specifically what some major decisions are. Like healthcare, educational opportunities and standing, etc. You want to show BM that her rights to the decision making process are being protected.
2. The line about you be able to make decisions on DH's behalf is a little loose too. What kind of situations are you thinking about here? Why wouldn't DH be available to make decisions? Are you thinking in case of an accident, etc? I believe there are power of attorney papers you would want to cover that as well.
3. I would change the point about enrolling SD in a school of DH's choosing. You know the school, so I'd list it by name. I wouldn't want BM to feel any indication that you may move and enroll her in some other random school.
4. I'm not sure how you can enforce being able to speak to a counselor. I believe BM would have to give written consent for the counselor to speak to DH. Otherwise, a counselor can't even confirm if she's a patient. I'm not sure if they'd be able to do a partial consent. i.e. confirm adherence without divulging other information. I would think it's all or nothing. I could be wrong though, I really don't know. Hopefully someone will.
ETA: I think it looks well detailed otherwise. I'd tried to run back through it though and try to imagine where BM will try to poke holes in it later. Anticipate her trying to justify not following it in someway and claiming ignorance. Glad to see you're getting everything well outlined. Hope this all falls into place.
1. I will add about the major decisions - BM hasn't attended a single event at SD's school in over 2 years, I doubt she will start now! I will try to be more detailed.
2. Well, what sabrina said the other day as far as BM can come over and say she wants SD since DH isn't here...I couldn't say no - that was really what I was thinking.
3. We know the specific school - we are enrolling her tomorrow since BM has already agreed to it.
4. As far as this is concerned, the only thing we want to know is if she is attending her recommended apts. We don't want any other information - I am not sure we can do this either, however, if she isn't seeing a counselor to work on the issues she obviously has, we don't want SD around her. We may not get this, but as I said, we would be happy seeing the monthly bills!
I totally understand your rationale. It's just that the biomom doesn't have any ability to force the girl to get counseling. If the girl were to get counseling, biomom almost certainly wouldn't be privy to anything that occurred as a result. You can only mandate (or request) what the mom can legally do.. she can keep the girls separated. She can install a lock. She can not leave them alone together, etc.
No question about it?the biomom has her priorities screwed up and she's putting her daughter at risk. It's a bad situation for everyone. It's really frustrating when there's been a divorce or split and you have to keep parenting with that person. Are there any local resources that might help you all sit down together and make a decision? Even like a school counselor or someone who could help present an objective perspective and encourage biomom to start advocating for her child?
I get what you are saying. Which is why we are saying to her if the other child does this then they can be around each other... if not, then they can't... if that makes sense, I know it isn't in her control necessarily but I am not sure how else to put it.
As far as someone to get her to listen, I don't think it would work, quite honestly. We have tried to tell her it isn't about her, we want to make sure SD is safe and feels safe. SD has told her she doesn't feel safe...but she just doesn't get it.
I would think you'd be in full right to say no. Visitation is outlined in the agreement. If DH isn't there for something then it's an automatic no. You can just default to the agreement. Thus still leaving it out of your hands to be 'the bad guy' and have to be the one to say no. I think minimizes any chance of you having to step in when BM is concerned is safer. Less chance for BM to try to spin this as the two of you ganging up on her and 'taking' SD. Even if you hope to never go to court you still want to be safe in how things could be turned around.
Also, was the bit in there about the phone, provided by you and DH, being accessible to SD at all times? I can't remember now, but I would definitely include that. SD needs to be able to contact you anytime if the other girl is left there alone with her or BM tries to pull something shady.
No, it would be the most sane choice she's made in awhile. BM is insane for allowing her bf's daughter to threaten the life of her bio-daughter and pull knives on people. Have you been following this story at all?
I see exactly where you are going with this... a few thoughts...of course, if you meant it differently - ignore me
You need to make sure you have times (e.g. when does Friday evening start). Also, saying things such as "being satisfactorily met" is really subjective and could lead to further argument/dispute. Further, SN will need to have access to M's medical records if he is to have proof that the counselor believes M is improving, so ask for it. Finally, if I was the Mother, I would not agree to more parenting time where it actually happening was based on the child's wishes.
HTH!!