Wow-letter from Daycare

amiamish

We got a letter from daycare, and in it it says:

Warning: Parents who choose not to regularly vaccinate or test their children as suggested by physicians and medical health professional need to note the following: If found that your child is the cause of a vaccinated outbreak, you will be charged the "name of daycare" to the full extent of the law for knowingly endangering the health and welfare of other children.

I don't have a problem with this because we choose to vax Jake as the doc says.. but I wonder- would they really have a case in court against a parent if this happened?

MrsJLK

Wow!

stacynikki

I really can't imagine that they would have a case.  I mean, maybe, but I can't see that really happening.  I wonder if there are a lot of un vaccinated kids in your daycare.

DandR

it would be pretty hard to prove that the specific child is the CAUSE of an outbreak...part of it..maybe...CAUSE of it...good luck proving that......

seems like a parent complained that some kid wasn't vaccinated and this is their stupid knee jerk reaction.....

they probably should talk with a lawyor before sending something like that out.

KrisBriMcBunny

wow!  What about kids who cant be vax. due to medical reasons?

I honestly would be pulling my kids out that kind of daycare.  That letter makes me very uncomfortable.  but I do kinda understand why she wrote it though.

MrsJLK

But lets just say that an outbreak occurs and they test all of the children and find that one hasn't be vaccinated and has the disease, wouldn't that prove he/she was the cause?

Mominator

They are probably just trying to release themselves of any liability god forbid something should happen.

amiamish

DandR:

seems like a parent complained that some kid wasn't vaccinated and this is their stupid knee jerk reaction.....

I wondered that, but then- how would a parent know what kids have vax and don't? Wouldn't that be confidential?

And yeah Stacy---I wondered that too, are there THAT many kids unvax'd that this needed to go out?

I think I'll ask them this when I pick Jake up tonight.

CleoKitty

Yeah, I doubt they could do that. Sounds like BS to me.

summerbrideDC

We chose to vax Ethan on the regular schedule, but that letter sounds like fear-mongering to me.?

CleoKitty

BTW, the letter really doesn't make sense either. What the hell is a "vaccinated outbreak?"

DandR

MrsJLK:

But lets just say that an outbreak occurs and they test all of the children and find that one hasn't be vaccinated and has the disease, wouldn't that prove he/she was the cause?

no...a lawyor would argue that the vaccine for Johnny wasn't working and HE caused it..even though he was vaccinated.

Or if there are multiple kids not vaccinated...which one was the cause..they can't ALL be THE CAUSE.

I'm not even a lawyor and can think of arguments off hand...where is E...she probably could add more.

fozzy923

That is stupid on so many levels -- what about children who can not be vaccinated for certain reasons, or children who are vaccinated and contract the virus from the vaccine?  Is there a legal reason why they can't just not accept anyone who isnt' up to date on their vaccines instead of sending a threatening letter? 

We are selectively vaccinating and would consider giving her more vaccines if dd was in daycare, but not the varicella vaccine for instance.  I'd send a letter back saying that I will vaccinate my child, but first, in writing, I want a letter back from the owner of the daycare taking full responsibility should my dc have any reaction.

BubblyToes

summerbrideDC:

We chose to vax Ethan on the regular schedule, but that letter sounds like fear-mongering to me.

This.

DaiLyght

Ditto DandR

The whole thing is messed up.

And I'm also very curious as to what they mean by "vaccinate or test " test what??

DandR

also..the "knowingly endangering the other kids" part...not sure exactly what it was....really??? Mrs SMith didn't vaccinate her kid = knowingly endangering the other kids???  That's like saying Mrs Smith drove her car blindfolded through a playground.....she didn't skip vaccines to put others at risk....

BTW--I'm Pro-vaccines....but I think the letter is ridiculous and whoever wrote is is an idiot...big time.

kevschickee2

Wowza that kind of story was on Law and Order.  My moms daycare doesnt allow children who aren't vacinated to join.

REOM

Aren't kids who go to daycare required to be vaccinated? If so, this shouldn't be an issue, right?

amiamish

DandR:

also..the "knowingly endangering the other kids" part...not sure exactly what it was....really??? Mrs SMith didn't vaccinate her kid = knowingly endangering the other kids???  That's like saying Mrs Smith drove her car blindfolded through a playground.....she didn't skip vaccines to put others at risk....

BTW--I'm Pro-vaccines....but I think the letter is ridiculous and whoever wrote is is an idiot...big time.

That is a GREAT comparison!

Brideofranken

the episode of Law and order SVU that was supposed to be about Casey anthony was actually all about this very topic- and at the end, the unvaxed kid's mom was charged...

I did not like that episode- it made things that are NOT very black and white into very cut and dry terms...inappropriate. But it made me wonder...at the same time though...a vaxed kid can spread the same germs- what if a vaxed kid caught something and gave it to another kid? would THEY be prosecuted? Can we go all litigious on anyone who transmits any illness to our kids? 

also, my doc DID say that she's hearing a lot of flack from daycares b/c there are more and more people either not vaxing or going against schedule of APA. She recommends that parents do what they feel best about, but that some are totally unnecessary, and some she feels are very important.

We JUST got J her first round of vaccs 2 months ago ( and hey- 2 weeks later she got her first cold, with fever and cough included- it was really bad, and I have to wonder why she would suddenly get sick when in her 2 years she has only had one little stomach bug....hmmm.)

I will stand by my right to do what is best for my child. and if that were my daycare, I would be pulling my kids out so fast. That kind of attitude just sounds ignorant and closed minded.

CleoKitty

REOM:

Aren't kids who go to daycare required to be vaccinated? If so, this shouldn't be an issue, right?

Depends on the particular daycare and the state. All states allow for medical exemptions if there is a legitimate medical reason why your child cannot be vaccinated. Many states also offer parents a religious exemption and a few even allow philosophical exemptions.

Of course, a private daycare can always make their own rules when it comes to accepting the exemptions. That being said, I'd imagine that even a private daycare would open themselves to charges of discrimination if they refused certain exemptions...?

beanzer

Interesting. We cannot vaccinate DD against the flu due to her allergies.??Very interesting stance they?have.??Don't think?it will hold?up however.

amiamish

I'll be SOOO glad when daycare is not an issue for us!

triplea1819

If the parents have a letter from a dr saying they wont/cant vaccinate they can still go to daycare IF the state allows the kids. 

 DS can NOT be vaccinate with live virus vaccines.  He had a reaction to the first one he had.  so no more until he is much older.  I have a certified letter from his dr saying this, so he is allowed into daycares.  The state knows and still allows him into the daycare.  However they COULD have said no,  DS does not meet the state vaccine requirements and can not go. 

Amanda&Chris

A lawyer's take:

First, the letter says to the "full extent of the law", that could be a $50 fine.  It doesn't mean doom and gloom for everyone, it just means as much as they can do to you.

Second, yes, and argument can be made that parents who choose not to vaccinate are knowingly endangering their child and others.  Vaccines prevent illness and and unvaccinated person is more susceptible to an illness than someone who has had the vaccine.

For a civil case to be brought (and have a likelihood of success) an unvaccinated child would have to be sick and then other children who had been vaccinated would have to contract the illness.  Or alternatively, an infant who was too young to be vaccinated for a particular illness or someone who can't be vaccinated for MEDICAL reasons woudl have to contract the illness--those people have the reasonable expectation of being protected from the illness because others are vaccinated.

Now, for a case to be worthwhile the vaccinated child (or infant, etc.) would have to get REALLY sick and have lasting damage from the illness, not just be mildly sick for a few days.

Lastly, they wouldn't have to pinpoint the cause of the illness to one child.  If three children had the illness and weren't vaccinated they could all be labeled the "cause" of the outbreak and then be sued/prosecuted as contributing factors.

amiamish

Amanda&Chris:

A lawyer's take:

First, the letter says to the "full extent of the law", that could be a $50 fine.  It doesn't mean doom and gloom for everyone, it just means as much as they can do to you.

Second, yes, and argument can be made that parents who choose not to vaccinate are knowingly endangering their child and others.  Vaccines prevent illness and and unvaccinated person is more susceptible to an illness than someone who has had the vaccine.

For a civil case to be brought (and have a likelihood of success) an unvaccinated child would have to be sick and then other children who had been vaccinated would have to contract the illness.  Or alternatively, an infant who was too young to be vaccinated for a particular illness or someone who can't be vaccinated for MEDICAL reasons woudl have to contract the illness--those people have the reasonable expectation of being protected from the illness because others are vaccinated.

Now, for a case to be worthwhile the vaccinated child (or infant, etc.) would have to get REALLY sick and have lasting damage from the illness, not just be mildly sick for a few days.

Lastly, they wouldn't have to pinpoint the cause of the illness to one child.  If three children had the illness and weren't vaccinated they could all be labeled the "cause" of the outbreak and then be sued/prosecuted as contributing factors.

Wow.. thanks Amanda!!

hopefulmom

I'm sure they have already had a lawyer look over the letter and that is why it is worded that way and I'm sure they do have a legal leg to stand on since they sent the letter and every parents knows what will happen.  If you don't agree with the letter then you need to pull your kids out...but you might be hard-pressed to find a daycare that accepts kids who are not immunized.

BTW...the flu shot is not a vaccination.  As for the testing...they are probably referring to titres (to verify kids have already had the disease).  Parents that do not vaccinate their kids are knowlingly putting their own child at risk (so in essentially they are putting other children at risk)...but they decide to take that risk based on their beliefs or fears.  People can't control the choices other people make about their children.

DaiLyght

hopefulmom:

I'm sure they have already had a lawyer look over the letter and that is why it is worded that way and I'm sure they do have a legal leg to stand on since they sent the letter and every parents knows what will happen.

I would not at all make that presumption.
 

Mrs Manners

Amanda&Chris:

A lawyer's take:

First, the letter says to the "full extent of the law", that could be a $50 fine.  It doesn't mean doom and gloom for everyone, it just means as much as they can do to you.

Second, yes, and argument can be made that parents who choose not to vaccinate are knowingly endangering their child and others.  Vaccines prevent illness and and unvaccinated person is more susceptible to an illness than someone who has had the vaccine.

For a civil case to be brought (and have a likelihood of success) an unvaccinated child would have to be sick and then other children who had been vaccinated would have to contract the illness.  Or alternatively, an infant who was too young to be vaccinated for a particular illness or someone who can't be vaccinated for MEDICAL reasons woudl have to contract the illness--those people have the reasonable expectation of being protected from the illness because others are vaccinated.

Now, for a case to be worthwhile the vaccinated child (or infant, etc.) would have to get REALLY sick and have lasting damage from the illness, not just be mildly sick for a few days.

Lastly, they wouldn't have to pinpoint the cause of the illness to one child.  If three children had the illness and weren't vaccinated they could all be labeled the "cause" of the outbreak and then be sued/prosecuted as contributing factors.

Awesome explaination! Could it be said that parents who place their vaccinated children in daycare with unvaccinated children are knowingly endangering their child's health? What responsibility would they have beyond vaccinating?