Unpopular Opinions 11.12

keikilove

Y’all, is it Thursday? Where are the UOs? Let ‘em out! 

krash_

I will complain about it and I don't like being cold but I like the snow. 

kiki047

Although I was born and raised in Canada, my background is Japanese and we know that Asian countries have a long history of wearing masks as a sign of respect to the people around them. It's part of their culture, and I'm here for it. So while I think (hope!) that most people understand the need for masks these days, my UO is that I think the use of masks in North America should be longer-lasting than just the end of Covid. I hope this is the start of a cultural shift towards greater respect for others by wearing a goddamn mask when you're [unnecessarily] out in public if you've got the sniffles (or worse). 

keikilove

@kiki047 Hear, hear! We used to scoff at the tourists here who would wear masks over the years; we thought they were wearing them for air pollution, which didn’t make sense since our air is so clean here. NOW we get it, and have been happy to wear masks since March. I do think it will continue even after the pandemic slows down. 

My UO is that even though I’ve been trying to brainstorm about Xmas presents for months, I feel very strongly about no Christmas carols or decorations until after Thanksgiving.

krash_

@keikilove I used to be in the "No Christmas Until After Thanksgiving" camp but 2020 has no rules so I'm doing it. Plus our 5" of snow makes it hard to look at pumpkins and corn. 

inthewoods23

@kiki047 100% I hope this continues. If you are sick and need to go out, wear a mask. I don't think people will ever look at you funny ever again. And hopefully people practice better hygiene now!

keikilove

@krash_ I laughed at your “2020 has no rules so I’m doing it”. Makes sense

paytonpedro

@keikilove I stand behind your no Christmas until after thanksgiving! I also have a list save on my phone of potential gifts end I don’t think that counts!

inthewoods23

@keikilove I'm also certain I saw Christmas stuff going up at stores BEFORE Halloween.

I have the same feelings about them putting out the swimsuits in March. Screw Spring Break, it's still technically winter!!! And of course they go on clearance in May before you've even had a chance to buy a new swimsuit for your pool days in the summer. Damn northern Midwest

inthewoods23

UO - this thread should be a weekly thread because come Thursday, I NEVER remember the UOs I think of earlier in the week  I know I had one and I've completely forgotten it.

emeraldcity1214

I’m clearly in the minority here so this is definitely a UO......

I don’t go anywhere that requires a mask. I don’t like wearing them and I likely won’t be wearing them in the future. The only place I go that actually requires one of my groups. We only have to wear them when we get up and walk around though. I guess we can’t pass the virus when we are sitting at our tables with each other. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Even if I did wear a mask we would still have been exposed because DH was exposed at the ER. The only way to avoid that would be for him to live separate from us until the pandemic ends. That’s not happening. 

I won’t be getting the vaccine either. 

Edit: fix spelling 
edit again: fix wording

krash_

@emeraldcity1214 why is it that you wont be getting the vaccine? You've been around TB long enough to know that comments about vaccines usually stir the pot so you must have some strong opinions. 

chindimples04

@emeraldcity1214 I probably won’t get the vaccine either. At least not right away. We vaccinate and are vaccinated but I have weary feelings about the first round of vaccines. Idk if that makes sense. I’ll probably eventually get it but I want to see the science and trial and error of it, first.

And846

@chindimples04 same, girl. We will get the vaccine after it’s already gone through a round or two. I’m going to hope enough around me vaccinate to kind of bubble protect me until i get one if that makes sense.

bows22

@emeraldcity1214 I can’t really tell what you are saying your UO is. If you don’t want to wear a mask and solve that by not going anywhere that you have to wear one, I think that’s totally valid. If you don’t want to get the vaccine, I think that’s totally valid. What is the unpopular part? I almost don’t want to know 😬

kiki047

@emeraldcity1214 I’m not going to be one of the first people to run out and get vaccinated but it will be part of our long term plan, providing it is deemed safe while TTC and/or if we’re hopefully KU next year.

but the mask issue is a no brainer for me. You do you up where you live, but anti-maskers in our area are everything wrong with the world right now and it is starting to feel like a personal attack because of how it negatively impacts everyone and everything around us. My grandmother with dementia is turning 92 on Saturday and we have to celebrate over zoom, and for all we know this could be her last birthday. *TW* we had to tell her about our MC on the phone, and she said no less than 15 times “I wish I could just give you a hug”. Oh hey, as if my heart wasn’t broken enough, let’s just stomp on it some more. I know masks won’t solve all the world’s problems but it sure helps. All we want is for her to be able to hold her first great-grandchild someday and with covid delaying treatments and spreading like wildfire that feels entirely unattainable right now and I just can’t deal. 

emeraldcity1214

@krash_ I am absolutely pro vaccines. I’m just not getting injected with one that has been rushed through the safety checks. I will wait a few years before I even consider it. At that point, I may not need one at all. We usually get our flu vaccines every year so who knows. Once it has been proven safe over an extended period of time I may reconsider. 

@bows22 I am not pro masks. We don’t wear them at church, my hiking group, or any other group I go to. The only exception is one group and I intentionally show up late most of the time so I can move around the halls and not wear a mask. I won’t be wearing one when the pandemic is over. My MIL wears a mask religiously and she got COVID. I think my husband should wear one at work because patients literally cough in his face but people at the grocery store aren’t coughing in anyone’s face. I don’t wear one when I’m outside with a large group of people. My calendar has been packed with way more social events this year than last year. I don’t social distance at all. I don’t do any of it. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Everyone I hang around with doesn’t either. People are well aware when they come to our groups and sometimes we have people who stay 6 feet away and when I see that I make sure my kids are respecting their space. I absolutely respect everyone’s stance on their own personal safety. I just don’t feel that it is necessary for me to take those precautions. That would be a totally different story if I had a close family member who was high risk. I don’t interact with any high risk individuals. My husband does have asthma so he is technically high risk but he is on the “front lines” every time he goes to work. I can’t protect him from it. Especially when he goes to the gym and is face to face with someone rolling on the ground. No one wears masks there either. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

I’m fully aware my actions have put me up close and personal with the virus. I’m recovering from it as we speak because of my exposure. I just have not been actively avoiding it like I see other people doing. My husband doesn’t think we need to and he is an ER doctor. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I have not been living a “new normal.” I have been living as close to normal as I can. The fact that I got the virus isn’t going to change my behavior in the future. I’ll keep getting exposed and keep building immunity. Then it won’t even be an issue. I’m actually relieved I got it before getting pregnant. I didn’t want to get sick with it in the first trimester. 

I am fully aware my personal opinions and actions related to the virus aren’t popular here but I respect everyone’s comfort level. Everyone’s situation is different and they are taking those things into consideration when they choose to socialize or social distance. That’s exactly what everyone should be doing. 

Sorry that got long. 😬 That’s my UO. 🙈

edit: fix wording 

emeraldcity1214

@kiki047 I totally understand where you’re coming from. I would feel heartbroken if I were going through the things you are currently going through. My heart aches for you. I fully respect your stance on masks. If I were in close proximity to a high risk family member I would be taking all the precautions necessary to keep them safe. I’m not around anyone who is high risk. I think one lady  who has a high risk family member joined us on a hike a few weeks back. She let us know she was social distancing and I made sure to keep my distance from her. I fully respect everyone’s feelings and boundaries. I just don’t feel the need to take those precautions myself. 

Edit: to fix wording. 

fitzfizz

Food for thought: literally no one wants to be in the first group to get the vaccine. I talk to people about this all day. Someone has to do it because if everyone hesitates (and it is currently looking like every single person is planning to not get it, but still hopes that everyone else will 🤷🏼‍♀️) we will be in the same situation for much longer. A vaccine will not fix this if no one gets it.

As an internal medicine doctor who takes care of COVID patients all day, this virus is very real and very scary. I have had 3 patients die from this, and I don’t even work in a hospital. Only one of those 3 that died was over 65. One was a 44 year old woman with no medical problems.

Masks definitely help, I work around people all day wearing a mask and I have not gotten it. No one in my clinic has gotten it and we have been a high risk area since March. I literally cannot fathom why anyone would choose to potentially get other people sick to avoid extremely mild inconvenience to themselves. It is very selfish to be around other people and choose not to wear a mask. 

I will definitely be one of the first people getting a vaccine, and I would hope some of you also take one for the team. If everyone chooses to wait, we are all f**ked. 

inthewoods23

FWIW, from what I have read, the first round of vaccines are being shipped to Europe. Like, not even front line US workers first, then they go to Europe. Then again, I feel like you shouldn't put any trust in what the media reports on anything related to covid. The stance on whether or not masks are actually helpful at stopping the spread has changed back and forth who knows how many times based on various studies done on how germ particles penetrate through various types of fabric at different velocities 🤷‍♀️. 

I do agree with @emeraldcity1214 in that we should try to live normal lives as much as we can. It's not worth living in fear day after day if you are choosing to stay home the majority of the time.

emeraldcity1214

@fitzfizz Sorry, but I’m not taking one for the team with a brand new RUSHED vaccine. Unfortunately, the ones that will be taking it for the team will be the elderly and school aged kids. They will make it mandatory and may even say kids can’t be exempt from it in order to return to school. When I go places that require a mask I put one on but I refuse to wear one outside. Everyone who runs in my circle feels the same way. We are all respectful of people who don’t feel that way. Typically they catch on quickly and don’t come again. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

emeraldcity1214

@inthewoods23 I quit trusting the media after the 2016 election. I think everyone needs to quit watching them so their ratings bottom out. That’s the only way to make them stop. 

keikilove

I am beyond dumbfounded after reading through this thread. If I didn’t know you were a longtime member here, @emeraldcity1214, I’d think you were trolling us. Each comment just upped the ante of “IDGAF”— especially the comments about YH going to the gym, the woman being exposed to you with a high-risk child, and your frequent mention of your children and your Moms group at church. My mouth was gaping open reading each additional comment about all the dangerous things you do that put others in precarious proximity to you. I am HIGH-RISK with lots of underlying health conditions and no one would ever know just by looking at me. I shouldn’t have to tell people my health status to get them to put on a mask around me. These behaviors may make you feel good about retaining normalcy and not living in fear, but these behaviors are exactly why the virus has spread like wildfire across this country. I don’t know if I will get a warning for any of my feedback here, but if I could 🔥torch🔥 this thread, I would.

bows22

TW for talk of LC

@fitzfizz I think that older people will be more willing to get it. My parents both plan to. MH is going to get it as soon as he can too. Maybe this is alarmist of me but if for some reason something ends up being majorly wrong with it, DD needs to have someone to take care of her, so I’m going to be the one who waits. I may feel differently when it actually comes out and there is data on what testing is done, but that’s where I stand right now. 

@emeraldcity1214 where I fundamentally disagree with you is that masks are not about our own safety or even just the safety of our immediate circle. It’s for everyone’s safety and to slow the spread so that hospital systems don’t get overwhelmed. I’m glad your experience with covid wasn’t scary but not everyone is that lucky. My parents had to have a hard conversation with me last night where I’m most likely going to lose their childcare help in the near future because I am around people who don’t believe in masks. It’s frustrating because it seems like an easy thing that people can do so that people CAN go about their normal lives. 

bows22

fitzfizz said:

 I literally cannot fathom why anyone would choose to potentially get other people sick to avoid extremely mild inconvenience to themselves.

Perfectly said

gingermama29

@emeraldcity1214 I'm flabbergasted that you don't want the vaccine that's "rushed" but are seemingly perfectly fine with getting a deadly virus that has so many unknown long term health effects! The high risk argument bothers me too. People who were perfectly healthy and in great shape have dropped dead from this virus or have suffered debilitating lingering effects long after "recovering" from the virus. I can't fathom how wearing a piece of cloth is a worse alternative.

wanderlustsoul

The vaccine is hardly even that rushed. They’re leveraging all their SARS knowledge that they have studied and researched over the past 15+ years to help create a vaccine. Also the speed is due to process efficiencies as explained here: https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/covid-19-vaccine-safety/?utm_source=YaleToday&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=YT_Yale%20Today%20Alum%20no%20Parents_10-23-2020

“ Q. What’s an example of a process efficiency in this case?

A. Steps that are usually done sequentially are taken in parallel, while getting to the same end result of having good data. For example, running combined Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials, doing animal studies in parallel with human studies, doing quick target identification. And having vaccine development manufacturing facilities ready even before a vaccine is finalized.” 

inthewoods23

I feel like my opinions are right in the middle of the viewpoints so now I feel a little uncomfortable 😅 like mommy and daddy are fighting in front of me😆

To add on to what @AKuzReve said, back in March/April when coronavirus was new, many youtube channels (like Mama Doctor Jones) would discuss the topic based on what little was known from (small) studies in China and comparing it to previous SARS outbreaks since they are in the same family. Obviously over time we are learning that coronavirus is behaving very differently in comparison, but it is at least a baseline to start with when doing research.

I did think it was super strange to already have the vaccine made before approval, but if the trial process doesn't include changing the formula then why wouldn't you just have a stash build up ready for distribution upon approval.

paytonpedro

I’m with you @inthewoods23. 

Edit: had to fix my gif because it’s funny. 

bows22

@inthewoods23 @paytonpedro I totally respect if you don’t feel as strongly as the people on this thread, but if you don’t think that masks are important (which I think is the main point here), then you aren’t in the middle, IMO. 

paytonpedro

@bows22 I think the biggest thing is I’m so over it. And if so many people are wearing masks, why are so many people getting sick still? And the numbers going up? It’s been mandatory in public and group meetings in my state/county/city for MONTHS and everyone follows directions in public. Our numbers have increased every day this week. Do I wear a mask? Yes. Do I like wearing a mask? No. I feel like I can’t breathe and that’s stems from my ocd. Do I wear a mask outside while social distancing? No. Do I respect everyone else’s decisions to wear masks/social distance? Yes. Are masks important? Sure. Yes. Especially for certain people. I stay home all week except saturdays. When I go to the store I wear a mask as directed. I follow the rules. But when I go for a walk, I do not wear a mask. I literally feel like there is a middle and I’ll leave it there.

chichiphin

no one asked, but IDGAF bc this is the UO thread. **lurking** to say once that vaccine is available to non-essentials, shoot me up scotty. I've done my research and feel very confident in it, especially the mRNA vaccine... and echo those who mention that the "base" of the vaccine has been in development for a while, and the covid-specific DNA/RNA is laid on top of it. (excuse my crude explanation) 

perhaps my locale/proximity to the ABSOLUTE terror that was March/April 2020 has solidified my viewpoints (also lol @ this becoming political when it is f**king science). I have good friends in NYC who have actual PTSD from the spring, where ambulance sirens were nonstop and they saw the body bags going in to freezer trucks while walking their dogs. Not here for round 2 of that. 

kiki047

@fitzfizz if we weren't TTC and if there was no possibility of a potential shortage in supply so that everyone who wants the vaccine will be able to get it right away, then sign me up. I'm absolutely pro-vaccine and like you say, someone has to go first. I guess my thoughts are that we already do everything we need to do to protect ourselves and others by taking all the necessary precautions with masks, hand sanitizer, social distancing, working from home, etc etc, that if there are more vulnerable areas of the population who have a greater need for immediate access then I will wait my turn. *TW* I finally got my flu shot this week bc my RE didn't want to give it to me during 1st tri, even though it is deemed safe, just so there wasn't another reason I could possibly MC. It happened anyway, but we'll approach the covid vaccine with the same apprehension. 

@emeraldcity1214 I have strong opinions that differ from yours but I'm not going to get into it with you. But one observation I do want to make is that your stance just screams white privilege. How nice for you that you DGAF if you get it because you're young, healthy, and don't have anyone around you who is high-risk so it's no big deal if you get Covid. I understand you're trying to offer support in your anecdotal experiences about how other supposedly "high risk" family members with asthma/etc have had covid and are doing just fine, but I feel like you're completely missing the point. You have the privilege of being able to be a SAHM, and having covid doesn't negatively impact your lifestyle other than not being able to continue going out and doing whatever you were doing before you were infected. You have the privilege of having unimpeded access to healthcare as needed. You have the privilege of not belonging to a racial or ethnic group who are targeted for bring the "China virus" into the country and who are verbally and/or physically assaulted for it.

I don't think it's selfish for me to say that I just don't want to get covid, period. Even though I, too, am young and healthy and am not considered high risk. But my husband works in a seniors home. My mom is the primary caregiver for my elderly grandmother. My aunt was granted visiting rights to see my uncle a few times a week, who has been in a coma for 4 years, providing she remains covid-free. My FIL has a history of heart disease. The list goes on. We don't have the luxury of being able to be so flippant about our stance on covid and neither do millions of other people who also don't want to get it. 

bows22

paytonpedro said:

Are masks important? Sure.

Literally all I mentioned. The rest of what you said falls under my “respecting that you don’t feel as strongly” statement so no idea why the gif was needed? Seems harsh but oh well 

lillywonderland

*lurking* 

I hope to God your reckless actions during the midst of a pandemic didn’t kill anyone. It’s a piece of fabric over your face that shows your neighbor that you care for THEM. 

The virus is spreading like wildfire as we speak even with the mask mandates and a lot of people WFH. Why? Because people DGAF and are still socializing with friends and family sans masks because “it’s family”. 

And for fuck’s sake. They aren’t rushing any safety checks regarding the vaccine. Do your research. Steps are done concurrently. Actual scientists wouldn’t risk the safety of people. Politicians would. But not us. 

Signed,
A Scientist. 

gingermama29

@kiki047 and @lillywonderland

I'm so fired up about this right now. I just don't understand how anyone in the world can be so flippant about this virus.

chichiphin

@paytonpedro cases sky-rocket even with mask wearing in public spaces because people are "so over it" and do stupid things in private... like this https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding 

chichiphin

maybe this is a OU too - but I actually tried to sign up to be a participant in a trial but was not allowed **tw lc** 

you cannot be BF and sign up

paytonpedro

chichiphin said:

@paytonpedro cases sky-rocket even with mask wearing in public spaces because people are "so over it" and do stupid things in private... like this https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-11-12/covid-19-spread-at-thanksgiving-holiday-gatherings-could-be-like-maine-wedding 

I understand this but what I’m saying is if we’ve all been doing what is recommended for so many months why is this still a thing? My entire city/state was totally shut down for months. I guess I’m just missing that. 

@bows22 I guess that gif does look a little snarky looking back but that’s not how I intended it. More just to show me stepping away from the convo which also was obviously false seeing I’m back. I just think there are different degrees of feeling about this whole topic and that it’s not black and white. 

kiki047

I feel the need to apologize for opening up pandora's box here, I didn't mean to start our own war on covid, there's enough of that out there. My original point was that I recognize that we don't enjoy wearing the masks. I don't like it but I do it for the greater good. I do think I will be in the minority for continuing to wear a mask years down the road if/when I absolutely have to go out and I'm not feeling 100%. We have a really shitty sick policy at work which means everyone continues to come in even when they're hacking and spitting and blowing their noses... 

fameonmain2

Well I'm jumping in on this thread a bit late but just wanted to say...

@kiki047 1000% on the masks! I hope they're here to stay. I have to admit I was one of those who did not understand the mask wearing before, and even derided it a bit. I was very, very wrong.

As someone who has to wear a mask just about every minute that I am not in my house, my yard, or my car, the mask doesn't bother me one bit. I have to wear one all day at work and around all my parents and in-laws, who we help out a lot and are high-risk. I teach all day in a mask. It's not great, but I need to protect myself and my students. The only time it is very slightly annoying is on long hikes with my dog when the condensation builds up. But hey, at least the trails are open! I'm going to do whatever I can to slow the spread so that eventually we can get back to a sense of *normalcy.* I haven't been able to see my grandmother in months. It's extremely frustrating that mine, and many others' normalcy will continue to be delayed while others decide that social distancing and mask wearing is simply not for them right now.