Chart Stalk / Questions - March

inthewoods23

You've got questions! We've got answers!

keikilove

Has anyone else noticed that the temp on one side of their mouth is distinctly different in temperature than the other side? No matter which side I sleep on, my left is always much hotter than my right, sometimes by .4 degrees.  So I take my temp twice on each side, then average them to get my daily read. (This morning was 97.8 both times on one side, then 98.09 & 98.04 on the other.) Anyone else? 

emeraldcity1214

I never noticed that when I used a regular BBT. If I were you I would just pick a side and use that temp every day. That way you're being consistent. 

daffodil_shoe

@keikilove I gave up oral temping years ago cuz it was so unreliable. Would you consider vaginal?

ruby696

@keikilove I use Ava, so no oral temping, but the temp on my right wrist is always higher than the temp on my left wrist. So weird. 

holly321

@keikilove I have noticed that, and that if I shove the thermometer back a bit too fat my temp is different.  I just always use the one side and the same spot.

ruby696

@holly321 When I was a teenager, I always shoved the thermometer as far back as I could get it because my temp would be higher. Then I'd comvince my mom to let me stay home from school. 😂

dreamscapes_

When I was temping, I did it vaginally, since it was supposed to be better, given that I sometimes sleep with my mouth open.

I still have no clue what's going on with my cycle. Up to CD41 today, no signs of AF approaching. I know that since I still haven't had a positive, I'm almost certainly not KU, but it's just aggravating, because I just want to get it over with so we can try again.

keikilove

Thanks for the responses, ladies. @ruby696 @holly321 @emeraldcity1214    I appreciate it—glad to know I’m not the only one who’s noticed weird stuff like this. @daffodil_shoe No temping in the vagine for me. Few things make me squeamish but I feel like if I temp there, after I take the thermometer out while still half asleep, I won’t know....where to put it down? Hahaha. 

daffodil_shoe

Haha @keikilove you’re too funny! I always have to pee SO BAD every time I wake up, so I temp, then head to the bathroom with my thermometer.

kagesstarshroom

FF did a weird thing today after I temped and it confirmed O (FINALLY YAY) where I am getting two different (it seems) AF prediction dates? I thought maybe it was bc FF confirmed O and then recalculated AF based on that? But it doesn't know yet how long my luteal phase is, and according to how long I think it is, it's a few days off. Here's a screen shot. So 3/9 would be my "if this were a normal cycle" but this is (*****TW LOSS*****) a post-d&c/1AL cycle, so I O'd a bit later than usual. The other red box, on 3/19, also has a white background instead of the normal colored background? And is, like, after when I am now expecting AF (if FF is right about O, I'd except it to come in around 3/15?) Help? Calendar for reference in spoiler.

daffodil_shoe

@kagesstarshroom I’m not sure about your multiple expected AF dates. But FF gives me a white box on the day they recommend to take a pregnancy test.

kagesstarshroom

@daffodil_shoe That makes so so much sense! It's just weird it's got a pink outline. Maybe it's a glitch? The legend shows it to be a similar looking outline, but whitish not pinkish. Thanks so much!

keikilove

@kagesstarshroom I second what @daffodil_shoe said. Your white box w pink border is your recommended test date. It is interesting that it comes so long after your predicted period, but it’s probably because FF is confused about the length of your cycles recently. FF may also be adjusting your test date by your lengthened O day/luteal phases recently. *TW—I don’t think FF knows to count your prior pregnancy days as pregnant instead of luteal phase days so it just added them on to make it a really long LP during your last cycle.*End TW* So it’s pushing out your test date for a longer O date & luteal phase—I think! Not sure. 

FF always gives me the test date box box right after the day predicted period is due. I attached a sample below just in case this helps. Please ignore if it’s no help. 

kagesstarshroom

@keikilove Thank youuu. Yeah, that's def. what it is. It shows me a white outline in one place and a pink outline in the other, and the key says it's a recommended test date for one of those on mobile and the other on desktop, which I think was my confusion. And yeah, I think what you said also makes sense, FF is definitely not sure how long my luteal phase should be. I am sure I can make it so that it doesn't "count" the last cycle when getting its stats together, so I'm gonna look into that soon. I'm just glad I finally O'd according to FF, and now extra glad that I know what that box means!

kbrown2385

I’m probably looking way to far into it, but is there any reason why I would suddenly start o’ing later than normal. I know the whole “you’re normal until you’re not”, but it’s still weird and now 2 months in a row. 

brookert615

Hi guys! Hope it's okay if I pop in but I wanted to preemptively prepare myself for my upcoming appointments with my OB-GYN and Endocrinologist (not an RE).

I'm kind of in the middle of a weird situation. My OBGYN wants to put me on Letrozole and my Endo wants to put me on Clomid. I have PCOS that was diagnosed by my endo and confirmed by my OBGYN and I'm also on Metformin and Armour Thyroid. I just don't understand why both doctors are very persistent on one rather than the other. I've gone down the rabbit hole of Google and I think I'm just more confused now lol.

lulu1180

*lurking*
@brookert615 I would just ask each of them why they think that specific medication should be used.  I know some people with PCOS don't respond to one or the other of those medications.  I would confirm that either way you will be monitored when taking the medication as either one can cause hyper-ovulation, which has a greater chance of high order multiples (triplets, quads, etc).

Also, just putting in my two cents that if you are doing a medicated cycle (whether just TI or IUI), you should do so under the care of an RE, not an OB

lcking82

@brookert615:  second what @lulu1180 said - ask each doctor why they are recommending their med?  As for me (I have PCOS, too), I did not respond to Clomid years ago (never ovulated).  My doctor wanted me to try Letrozole, saying that some studies have shown it to be "better" for PCOS.  From my research, while not zero, the risk of multiples is slightly lower for PCOS women with Letrozole than Clomid.  BUT----I think hearing out each of your providers is a good idea.  

Also, agree with asking what type of monitoring they may do with either drug.  Some OB's will do monitoring in office.  

lcking82

@brookert615:  also ask the endocrinologist why she's not recommending Letrozole, too.  I hate to suggest this, but an endo (non-RE) may not be quite as up to date in fertility treatments.

lcking82

@kbrown2385:  the follicular phase is where you get much more variability due to stress, hormones, diet/exercise/weight, etc.  So I think you're later O could be "environmental" if that makes sense?

brookert615

@lulu1180 & @lcking82 Oh my goodness, you guys are the best. Great tips! I'm definitely just going to seek out an RE. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to answer my question!!!

lulu1180

@brookert615 Also, when I asked about why I was being given clomid rather than letrozole for my IUI, I remember my REs office saying that letrozole is usually given when you do not ovulate on your own whereas clomid is usually used when you don't have problems ovulating to help give you more/better quality eggs.  

Also, fun fact...letrozole is technically not approved by the FDA to treat infertility; however, it is very commonly used.

Finally...just a note on REs vs OBs.  I remember someone on here explaining the difference pretty succinctly.  REs are experts at helping you get pregnant, OBs are experts at helping you stay pregnant

brookert615

@lulu1180 Okay that makes sense! That's crazy about Letrozole not being approved by the FDA for IF treatments!

That's a great way to put it about the difference of the REs vs OBs!!!

Thank you again for your insight!!! 

kbrown2385

@lcking82 That makes sense! I guess I wasn’t searching google correctly. I couldn’t find anything that said that. Thank you! 

ruby696

@lulu1180 Jumping in here... Thank you for that info! I was wondering why my RE was going with Clomid when it seems like Letrozole might be better. I have no problem ovulating, but I'm 38 with RPL, so your explanation makes me feel better.

lcking82

@lulu1180:  this is a great contrast of the two drugs - my doctor explained as “you’ve got eggs at the start line, but they can’t hear the race shotgun because of all the hormone “noise” in the background.”  So Letrozole quiets the noise a bit to let the hormone surges show up more!  

Maybe Clomid would be considered more to getting the eggs to the start line in this analogy. 😁😁😁

kiki047

@brookert615 FWIW, my RE was also pro-letrozole for PCOS and my Google research also seemed to point towards letrozole being more effective for PCOS than Clomid. 

From what I understand, letrozole is an anti-estrogen drug so it inhibits the enzyme (aromatase) that produces the estrogen hormones. Clomid blocks estrogen receptors, thereby stimulating the hypothalamus to produce more FSH & LH. With PCOS, my FSH & LH are already elevated so I don't want more of it. My RE said letrozole is also less likely to cause thinning of the uterine lining. 

brookert615

@kiki047 Okay, that makes sense! Thanks so much!!! 

ruby696

@lcking82 Or maybe Clomid gets the good eggs to shove the old, broken down eggs away from the starting line 😂

lcking82

@kiki047 is dropping all the scientific knowledge here ---

It's pretty cool that they figured out it could work in infertility, too!  Letrozole is FDA approved for hormone sensitive breast cancers (in post-menopausal women).  While a post-menopausal woman isn't making ovarian estrogen, your body will still convert a small amount of testosterone (and other hormones) into estrogen.  That tiny bit of estrogen is still enough to trigger growth of tumors that have estrogen-receptor (ER), so the aromatase inhibitor suppresses that teensy bit of estrogen, to keep the tumor from growing.  Man, science.  Awesome stuff.

kbrown2385

I’m totally taking all of this about clomid to my RE next week. Thanks everyone for the information! 

kiki047

@lcking82 ooh you're tickling my research brain over here. I was never strong in math or science in school but I was hungry for information. I hide behind the scientific explanations for PCOS and all things associated with IF because otherwise I'd have to admit that I don't actually know why my body is broken and doesn't do the things it's supposed to do. 

lcking82

@kiki047:  isn't it crazy how complicated all the hormonal cascades are?  It's pretty miraculous that most everyone is just walking around with everything working/signaling properly!!!  Also, I will totally admit that I did NOT grasp all this in medical school (just the basics), so I go easy on general practice folks.  Like, you learn about the menstrual cycle and hormones, but I didn't really GET it until I had problems and started tracking and learning.  OB/Gyns, endocrinologists, and REI do this every day, but most physicians don't go that deeply into what triggers what and when.

kiki047

@lcking82 I can imagine the research is always evolving too so what you knew back then may not necessarily hold true today, whether it's been disproven or a newer discovery just totally changes the scope. Sometimes I wonder if my GP has even picked up a medical journal since he finished med school 30 years ago cuz he seems totally clueless on so many things. That's where my naturopath really impressed me. She seemed to know so much more about the origins of certain functions and illnesses, and that part appeals so much to me. Don't treat the end result, treat the source of the problem. 

jennifer_louise

So much interesting stuff on here! But I do have a question, related to what @lulu1180 said. If you are being monitored while on Clomid/letrozole and they find evidence of hyperovulation or multiple follies, what can they do they do to reduce your chances of multiples? 

ruby696

@jennifer_louise My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that you have an US before IUI and if there are "too many" mature eggs, you can choose to skip that cycle. They can lower the dose if that's an issue.

chichiphin

**lurking** I was scheduled for an IUI and was hyper stimulated, so we discussed it with the doc and decided the best course of action was to try on our own for that cycle. Some clinics make you sign a form if you proceed acknowledging the risks for multiples. 

ETA - you’ll have US monitoring appts to check in on this once you’re on the letrozole/clomid. I had a monitor appt on CD12 to see where I was at.

NYTino24

*lurking* jennifer_louise My twin had to use Clomid with IUI I and her RE cancelled one IUI because she had 15 follicles. Hyperovulation runs in our family, so I didn’t quite understand why she was put on Clomid other than because she had poly cystic ovaries (but not PCOS somehow?) and endometriosis. She would bleed for like 3 weeks a month and ended up having a partial hysterectomy due to scar tissue, so there was a lot going on. 

kiki047

@jennifer_louise I had two follies my first letrozole cycle so we were advised of the risk of multiples and they gave us a choice of whether we wanted to proceed anyway. They did advise us to be “gentle” so we didn’t rupture one or both of them. 

ruby696

Okay, so I should preface this by saying I'm still benched for 10 days or so, but I've been charting again and my temps are weirdly high. Has anyone had a weird month of unexplained high temps maybe *tw* after a loss? My hcg just finally went to zero, so I'm wondering if that has something to do with it? Pic in spoiler.