@MandyMost while I don't terribly feel the need to explain or defend my position to you, or anybody else, I think the fact that it's unnecessary for most babies ought to suffice. Furthermore, putting vitamins and antibiotics on the same level is simply false, and is a popular mentality these days that can have very dangerous consequences.
So, case in point, say it gets filed under N, along with the rest of the list of things that are, "not worth fighting," when you go in for a hospitalized delivery, and that's what makes my heart sink. My child's mother <i>brings</i> <i>them</i> <i>into</i> <i>the</i> <i>world</i> sacrificing her autonomy in the process, and that's how they're <i><b>born</b></i>. To me, that's just completely soul-crushing. In a day where everybody talks about feminism feminism feminism, where's a woman's right to govern her body in the process of birthing her child. //end rant
@pourmeamocktail. I am so sorry you had such a traumatic birth experience with your first. I really hope for your sake and the baby's, that you both get to enjoy a completely different experience this time! ❤
@Wishilivedinflorida. Congratulations! And happy birthday to your DS! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/51/s641f1vcei9c.gif" alt="">
@BusinessWife Thank you. I'm confident that this time will go better, I have a much better care team in place, and I truly believe they won't try to force anything (including eye ointment!) on us.
I feel so much the same way, that it's scary how much people seek to take away a woman's choices and power in birth.
In a perfect world, we'd all have the exact birth we want. But, I'd settle just for being respected and given choices. I'm not upset that I had a surgical birth, I'm upset that I was coerced, forced, and ignored.
This time, I won't be, even if crazy things happen, and another surgical birth ends up being the right choice for me.
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
Ooh! I just listened to episode 60 of the podcast "Healthy Births, Happy Babies," and the guest is an ObGyn who did hospital births for almost 30 years and has since I switched to a homebirth model with midwives! Really fascinating to hear it coming from the horse's mouth, of a doctor who became so frustrated with the system that he basically just left lol
On the doula note, I seriously considered hiring one and even interviewed one for my second kid, however, didn't hire her and, small town note, she was one of the only ones in town. Because I had semi planned (and did) take an epidural I didn't want to feel bad and felt I would have if I hired her. Turns out between a better hospital (no choice on that one too - as VBAC and small town), my husband, an excellent book called A guide for Dad's on labour or something like that, and a working walking epidural the VBAC happened.
Daughter #1 - Feb 2012 Daughter #2 - Oct 2014 Daughter #3 - Nov 2016 Baby #4 - Sept 2018
@BusinessWife while it’s unnecessary for most babies, we don’t know which ones! And the risk-benefit ratio (risk= unnecessary antibiotic eye cream, benefit= preventing hospitalization and IV antibiotics and possible blindness) is clear here to me. So I’m not agaist this medical intervention because of how infrequent the eye infections are. In fact, that rationale makes no sense to me.
I’m sure you have your reasons, and you’re clearly set on them, I’m not trying to change your mind... I just don’t want anyone else reading this thread to think something is automatically bad because it’s standard practice and/or preventing a currently-rare complication (although likely currently rare because of the intervention!) Everyone should talk to their doctors...I hesitate to recommend people do their own research because a) there is so much crap on the internet it’s hard to tell real science from people’s crazy opinions stated in legit-looking websites surrounded by “certifications” and key legit-sounding words, and b) most people have a hard time really understanding the scientific literature, which is almost always written for an audience of the authors peers (other experts scientists in the field) and not the public.
@mandymost I'm going to respectfully disagree on not recommending people do their own research. Yes, talk to your doctors, but without doing your own research you won't know which doctor might suit you best. Or when to second guess your doctor. Sometimes they miss things. This comes from someone who was misdiagnosed and was able to get better help because I did my own research. Also, multiple doctors can read the same research and come to different conclusions. Which is why it's important for patients to self-educate themselves on medical issues, especially ones that pertain to them and the treatment they prefer.
@MandyMost Yeah, failing to do enough research really screwed me over too.
It's OK that you have a different opinion, and get all the eye ointment and whatever else you want, totally cool with me.
But legally mandated things that don't have sufficient studies showing benefit are irksome to me. Over use of antibiotics does have long term consequences.
Routine episiotomy used to be popular, and now it's been proven to only help in specific cases, so it's no longer routine.
There's now a growing body of researching showing that birthing in bed, mostly laying down, and epidurals both have potential to increase likelihood of stalled labor and failure to descend, which leads to more c sections.
Now, if you want to birth laying down, with or without epidural, I see no problem with that, as long as it's your choice to not to as well.
Doing research on how best to have a pregnancy and birth that suits you personally is important to me-whether your ideal is very very medical-ized and potentially surgical, or birthing outside under a tree by yourself (neither of which actually appeals to me btw).
Knowing that there are ways to lessen my chances of surgery, and increase my chances of a quick, easy, safe birth in my own living room...that helps me. Just as birthing in the most high tech hospital with the best NICU available helps many many other moms.
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
Edited because someone obviously hit a nerve for me and I would rather just block somebody then get upset over it. Thank you to those of you who have been able to express your responses in a much more calm and respectful way, because I'm pretty pissed right now.
Can someone give me the short version of why the eye ointment may not be preferable? Is it unnecessary use of antibiotics and issues around antibiotic resistance?
Me: 34 | DH: 33 Married Aug. 2013 TTC #1 Sep. 2016 ***TW***
BFP Jan. 15, 2017; MMC Mar. 4, 2017 at 10w6d BFP Jun. 5, 2017; MMC Aug. 2, 2017 at 11w6d BFP Nov. 20, 2017; ended in CP All the tests. Everything normal except treated for ureaplasma and DH potentially has high DNAF. BFP Dec. 25, 2017; EDD Sep. 5, 2018; DD arrived Aug. 26th My chart: https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/63f71d
<blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow">starla</a> said:</div> <div>Can someone give me the short version of why the eye ointment may not be preferable? Is it unnecessary use of antibiotics and issues around antibiotic resistance?</div></blockquote> That's a big part of it. Another big part is putting another interference in the way of mother/baby bonding, as nature intended. It's crazy how many totally unnecessary things are done at birth without anyone thinking twice anymore. "<span>It seems though that tradition outweighs science until enough of the medical community stand together to make their voices heard." </span> https://mybabysheartbeatbear.com/blog/eye-ointment-at-birth-a-dated-tradition/
ETA Canadian pediatricians are calling for changes to what they consider an ineffective medical treatment for newborn babies: antibiotic eye drops to prevent sexually transmitted infections from mothers. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/newborn-eye-treatment-doesn-t-work-say-pediatricians-who-want-law-repealed-1.3000350
@BusinessWife at the hospital where buddy was born they wait to do a lot of the stuff until after Mom and baby have skin to skin time. I think we're supposed to get an interrupted hour, but buddy and I were having some issues so ours got cut short. I'll have to ask my husband if he knows when/if they did the ointment. Because of the magnesium I had like triple vision so buddy was just a blur. I couldn't actually see him clearly until day 3 I think. I also am pretty clueless to some of the details. I was really out of it I know that one of my friends who is a midwife who believes in hospital births (like does all the standard midwife stuff, but do it a hospital kind of attitude), just put in her birthplan that baby could have the ointment but not until after a certain time. She saw the value in the ointment but insisted on however much time to hold her baby and breastfeed and bond before someone got in there and started messing with baby. Insisted on delays on weighing, measuring, ointment, all the things. And they honored her wishes.
@BusinessWife like @stothi my hospital encourages skin to skin first and then does all the medical stuff if possible. I needed some medical attention after delivery, so they did all of it with DS first while they fixed me up, but I think he did some skin to skin with his daddy while waiting for me to be ready. The hours right before and after his birth are a little fuzzy. If your hospital is willing to work with you there are ways to have both the immediate bonding time and the medical treatments for baby. Of course not every hospital is that flexible. The baby friendly ones really try hard to make it work though.
Same. DS fed and did skin-to-skin even while my tear was being sutured/placenta delivered/being cleaned up. They didn’t weigh him/do any interventions until they got me out of bed to pee and make sure my epi was worn off, during which I wouldn’t be able to hold him anyway.
jaylii I live in a small town where there is only one daycare. DD is 18 months and I was told she would not get in till she is 2. This little one is already in the wait list and can hopefully get in in a year when I am off mat leave. It's so hard.
@klj0228 My hands have been so swollen.. making it hard to type or hold anything. I haven't been in too much pain thankfully though. My rings wouldn't even fit on my fingers. It is starting to get better.
So DH has made comments on at least 3 separate occasions lately about me not doing enough dishes (seriously I'm beginning to think a dishwasher is going to save our marriage at some point). And we even had a bit of a fight about early this week.
So I specifically paid attention to when and how many dishes I did (here, even though I wash a bunch of dishes at both jobs Wed-Fri) this week. The last time he did them was Monday, and none have been done since Thursday morning. So there are quite a bit now.
I brought it up that they need to get done, and it might be his turn, I didn't think he'd done any since Monday. He laughed at said he'd done them three times since then.
So at least now I know why he thinks I don't do enough...he literally thought the loads he did last Sat, Sun, and Mon all happened since Tuesday. He forgets when I do them....
I'm not even angry, I'm shocked but also slightly relieved. At least I know I'm not insane when I feel like I'm doing my share.
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
@pourmeamocktail H and I were seeing a counselor last year and one of our homework assignments was to list out our individual chores. H individualized his like 1)wash clothes 2) dry clothes 3) fold clothes etc etc so his list looked like mine when I had 1)clean kitchen 2) clean all bathrooms 3) laundry etc etc. it was our Aha moment. He doesn’t complain as much about his list of chores now.
Irk. My mom- who is my usual sitter and best friend has been out of state since September due to my grandfather's illness and passing. She was hoping to be back up in another month or so.
Today I just found out, 5 weeks after on grandfather's passing, that my grandmother has lung cancer. Not only is that a big enough blow, but on top of it, I'm doubting my mom will make it back up until late fall at the earliest. I am so not prepared for another pregnancy without her, a birth without her, and yet another passing and funeral across the country, that depending on timing I might be super pregnant/have a newborn for. Sigh. Hard week.
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
I’m so sorry for all of that @pourmeamocktail! That’s a ton to deal with and especially while having a baby. I hope your grandmother is comfortable through the process and your mom isn’t gone too long.
We are cleaning and doing lots of donating this weekend. Or I am doing lots of donating. DH (and today D is not for dear) is driving me crazy every time I ask him to look through some clothes to see what he wants to keep he wants to keep it all or maybe get rid of 1 thing. I am only asking to be nice, because the things I am asking about he has not worn in the 6.5 years we have lived in this house! I on the other hand am donating anything I have not worn in at least a year!
@pourmeamocktail I'm so sorry for the news about your grandmother. Hopefully something will work out for your mom to see you sooner than you're thinking, too.
2/13 Blighted ovum, D&C -- 6/13 MC -- 8/14 DD born -- 3/17 MC -- 9/18 DD2 born Expecting again -- EDD 7/27/20
Re: Weekly Randoms 3/19
So, case in point, say it gets filed under N, along with the rest of the list of things that are, "not worth fighting," when you go in for a hospitalized delivery, and that's what makes my heart sink. My child's mother <i>brings</i> <i>them</i> <i>into</i> <i>the</i> <i>world</i> sacrificing her autonomy in the process, and that's how they're <i><b>born</b></i>. To me, that's just completely soul-crushing. In a day where everybody talks about feminism feminism feminism, where's a woman's right to govern her body in the process of birthing her child. //end rant
@pourmeamocktail. I am so sorry you had such a traumatic birth experience with your first. I really hope for your sake and the baby's, that you both get to enjoy a completely different experience this time! ❤
@Wishilivedinflorida. Congratulations! And happy birthday to your DS!
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/51/s641f1vcei9c.gif" alt="">
I feel so much the same way, that it's scary how much people seek to take away a woman's choices and power in birth.
In a perfect world, we'd all have the exact birth we want. But, I'd settle just for being respected and given choices. I'm not upset that I had a surgical birth, I'm upset that I was coerced, forced, and ignored.
This time, I won't be, even if crazy things happen, and another surgical birth ends up being the right choice for me.
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
Daughter #2 - Oct 2014
Daughter #3 - Nov 2016
Baby #4 - Sept 2018
I’m sure you have your reasons, and you’re clearly set on them, I’m not trying to change your mind... I just don’t want anyone else reading this thread to think something is automatically bad because it’s standard practice and/or preventing a currently-rare complication (although likely currently rare because of the intervention!) Everyone should talk to their doctors...I hesitate to recommend people do their own research because a) there is so much crap on the internet it’s hard to tell real science from people’s crazy opinions stated in legit-looking websites surrounded by “certifications” and key legit-sounding words, and b) most people have a hard time really understanding the scientific literature, which is almost always written for an audience of the authors peers (other experts scientists in the field) and not the public.
It's OK that you have a different opinion, and get all the eye ointment and whatever else you want, totally cool with me.
But legally mandated things that don't have sufficient studies showing benefit are irksome to me. Over use of antibiotics does have long term consequences.
Routine episiotomy used to be popular, and now it's been proven to only help in specific cases, so it's no longer routine.
There's now a growing body of researching showing that birthing in bed, mostly laying down, and epidurals both have potential to increase likelihood of stalled labor and failure to descend, which leads to more c sections.
Now, if you want to birth laying down, with or without epidural, I see no problem with that, as long as it's your choice to not to as well.
Doing research on how best to have a pregnancy and birth that suits you personally is important to me-whether your ideal is very very medical-ized and potentially surgical, or birthing outside under a tree by yourself (neither of which actually appeals to me btw).
Knowing that there are ways to lessen my chances of surgery, and increase my chances of a quick, easy, safe birth in my own living room...that helps me. Just as birthing in the most high tech hospital with the best NICU available helps many many other moms.
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
Married Aug. 2013
TTC #1 Sep. 2016
***TW***
BFP Jun. 5, 2017; MMC Aug. 2, 2017 at 11w6d
BFP Nov. 20, 2017; ended in CP
All the tests. Everything normal except treated for ureaplasma and DH potentially has high DNAF.
BFP Dec. 25, 2017; EDD Sep. 5, 2018; DD arrived Aug. 26th
My chart: https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/63f71d
<div><a rel="nofollow">starla</a> said:</div>
<div>Can someone give me the short version of why the eye ointment may not be preferable? Is it unnecessary use of antibiotics and issues around antibiotic resistance?</div></blockquote>
That's a big part of it. Another big part is putting another interference in the way of mother/baby bonding, as nature intended. It's crazy how many totally unnecessary things are done at birth without anyone thinking twice anymore. "<span>It seems though that tradition outweighs science until enough of the medical community stand together to make their voices heard."
</span>
https://mybabysheartbeatbear.com/blog/eye-ointment-at-birth-a-dated-tradition/
ETA
Canadian pediatricians are calling for changes to what they consider an ineffective medical treatment for newborn babies: antibiotic eye drops to prevent sexually transmitted infections from mothers. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/newborn-eye-treatment-doesn-t-work-say-pediatricians-who-want-law-repealed-1.3000350
I know that one of my friends who is a midwife who believes in hospital births (like does all the standard midwife stuff, but do it a hospital kind of attitude), just put in her birthplan that baby could have the ointment but not until after a certain time. She saw the value in the ointment but insisted on however much time to hold her baby and breastfeed and bond before someone got in there and started messing with baby. Insisted on delays on weighing, measuring, ointment, all the things. And they honored her wishes.
@smsaulino I was wondering about you this week. You’re usually pretty active. Hope your 2nd tri symptoms take a break for a few days!
So I specifically paid attention to when and how many dishes I did (here, even though I wash a bunch of dishes at both jobs Wed-Fri) this week. The last time he did them was Monday, and none have been done since Thursday morning. So there are quite a bit now.
I brought it up that they need to get done, and it might be his turn, I didn't think he'd done any since Monday. He laughed at said he'd done them three times since then.
So at least now I know why he thinks I don't do enough...he literally thought the loads he did last Sat, Sun, and Mon all happened since Tuesday. He forgets when I do them....
I'm not even angry, I'm shocked but also slightly relieved. At least I know I'm not insane when I feel like I'm doing my share.
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
Irk. My mom- who is my usual sitter and best friend has been out of state since September due to my grandfather's illness and passing. She was hoping to be back up in another month or so.
Today I just found out, 5 weeks after on grandfather's passing, that my grandmother has lung cancer. Not only is that a big enough blow, but on top of it, I'm doubting my mom will make it back up until late fall at the earliest. I am so not prepared for another pregnancy without her, a birth without her, and yet another passing and funeral across the country, that depending on timing I might be super pregnant/have a newborn for. Sigh. Hard week.
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
We are cleaning and doing lots of donating this weekend. Or I am doing lots of donating. DH (and today D is not for dear) is driving me crazy every time I ask him to look through some clothes to see what he wants to keep he wants to keep it all or maybe get rid of 1 thing. I am only asking to be nice, because the things I am asking about he has not worn in the 6.5 years we have lived in this house! I on the other hand am donating anything I have not worn in at least a year!
Expecting again -- EDD 7/27/20