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March 2018 Moms

UO Thursday

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Re: UO Thursday

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  • antoto said:
    For this I am probably a little strange because I DON'T think the purpose of K-12 is to coach you for college and a job.  I mean if done right you SHOULD be ready for those things, but that is truly not the point of K-12 for me.  For me it is far more about learning to absorb information, learning to think critically, learning to question information and seek deeper knowledge.  It should be about having a really well rounded understanding of the world in general and that's where I think religious education fails and why I find it concerning.  
    1000% agree.  (From a fellow teacher. <3)
    Me: 30 H: 30
    Dx: PCOS
    Married: June 2013
    TTC#1: January 2015
    BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
    BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
    TTC#2: June 2017
    BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
    LiveNLove44leilaquinn
  • @antoto I think you are completely right that kids should learn, "...to think critically, learning to question information and seek deeper knowledge".  And that is precisely what I felt that I was better prepared in when I got to college than my public-schooled peers. I didn't believe everything that I was told by my teachers (So many college textbooks were contradictory from class to class) and I looked for other insights in other texts (especially for my advanced math classes that were ridiculously confusing). Most of the teachers wanted us to look up information outside the class anyway (My archaeology class was awesome!). But I was taught at home how to research and look up things that interested me, which translated to my being able to look up information and fact-check what I was being taught. I spent so much time as a kid reading stuff way beyond my grades because it interested me. I was reading all sorts of archaeology books in my pre-teen years because I was interested in it. That was the one thing my parents excelled at - delight directed reading. For anything that interested me, I was showered with library books about that subject. Whether it was fairy-tales or marine biology. And from all that reading and talking about issues of the day with my folks and others (my parents encouraged debates and arguments about social issues) I felt that I was strong in my ability to think critically. Especially to view each side of an argument equally.  
    All that being said, I do think there are homeschoolers out there that not taught very well how to view issues from other perspectives. Some are taught to be closed-minded, and I think that's not good for society. I think everyone should respect the views of others that are not of the same opinion, and understand other sides of the story. But I think that problem is also true of a lot of public school's teaching policies as well.  
    ShawnnaOvflux33notthefatherbarrelocarol
  • FWIW, in the medical community I work in we never refer to a birth as natural.  We might differentiate between C-section or vaginal, but only because those particular events have their own medical implications.   I always thought the term natural was just used in forums or mom groups.  I think I would get some eyebrows raised at me if I ever described a birth in report as natural.  
    vflux33ShawnnaObarrelocarol
  • pregobeth said:
    @antoto I think you are completely right that kids should learn, "...to think critically, learning to question information and seek deeper knowledge".  And that is precisely what I felt that I was better prepared in when I got to college than my public-schooled peers. I didn't believe everything that I was told by my teachers (So many college textbooks were contradictory from class to class) and I looked for other insights in other texts (especially for my advanced math classes that were ridiculously confusing). Most of the teachers wanted us to look up information outside the class anyway (My archaeology class was awesome!). But I was taught at home how to research and look up things that interested me, which translated to my being able to look up information and fact-check what I was being taught. I spent so much time as a kid reading stuff way beyond my grades because it interested me. I was reading all sorts of archaeology books in my pre-teen years because I was interested in it. That was the one thing my parents excelled at - delight directed reading. For anything that interested me, I was showered with library books about that subject. Whether it was fairy-tales or marine biology. And from all that reading and talking about issues of the day with my folks and others (my parents encouraged debates and arguments about social issues) I felt that I was strong in my ability to think critically. Especially to view each side of an argument equally.  
    All that being said, I do think there are homeschoolers out there that not taught very well how to view issues from other perspectives. Some are taught to be closed-minded, and I think that's not good for society. I think everyone should respect the views of others that are not of the same opinion, and understand other sides of the story. But I think that problem is also true of a lot of public school's teaching policies as well.  
    Do you think your parents wouldn't have done this if you weren't home schooled?
    Me: 30 H: 30
    Dx: PCOS
    Married: June 2013
    TTC#1: January 2015
    BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
    BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
    TTC#2: June 2017
    BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
    antoto
  • pregobeth said:
    @antoto I think you are completely right that kids should learn, "...to think critically, learning to question information and seek deeper knowledge".  And that is precisely what I felt that I was better prepared in when I got to college than my public-schooled peers. I didn't believe everything that I was told by my teachers (So many college textbooks were contradictory from class to class) and I looked for other insights in other texts (especially for my advanced math classes that were ridiculously confusing). Most of the teachers wanted us to look up information outside the class anyway (My archaeology class was awesome!). But I was taught at home how to research and look up things that interested me, which translated to my being able to look up information and fact-check what I was being taught. I spent so much time as a kid reading stuff way beyond my grades because it interested me. I was reading all sorts of archaeology books in my pre-teen years because I was interested in it. That was the one thing my parents excelled at - delight directed reading. For anything that interested me, I was showered with library books about that subject. Whether it was fairy-tales or marine biology. And from all that reading and talking about issues of the day with my folks and others (my parents encouraged debates and arguments about social issues) I felt that I was strong in my ability to think critically. Especially to view each side of an argument equally.  
    All that being said, I do think there are homeschoolers out there that not taught very well how to view issues from other perspectives. Some are taught to be closed-minded, and I think that's not good for society. I think everyone should respect the views of others that are not of the same opinion, and understand other sides of the story. But I think that problem is also true of a lot of public school's teaching policies as well.  
    Do you think your parents wouldn't have done this if you weren't home schooled?
    Yeah I mean again I'm not speaking about specific family dynamics here.  I'm talking about curriculum.  Was the curriculum itself built to make your dig deep into your knowledge of things? I just seriously doubt that any curriculum that is built around specifically teaching creationism gave you a particularly great comprehension of Darwinism, for example.  I mean MAYBE I'm wrong?  But like... I doubt it. I think if you don't learn about evolution and mutation (even if you choose not to believe it) you have an enormous gap in your understanding and knowledge of life on Earth.  And that's not me suggesting anyone is dumb, or anything remotely like that.  I just think there is a fundamental flaw in the curriculum.  
    Me:29  DH:33
    Married: 3/1/14
    TTC #1: 4/16
    Dx PCOS (Non IR) 10/16
    5mg Femara + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 11/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 75 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 12/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 150 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel +IUI +Progesterone: 1/17 = BFN
    Preparing for IVF - Birth Control: 4/17 Stims: 5/17 
    IVF retrieval 6/17: 21 eggs retrieved, 20 mature.  17 fertilized with ICSI.
    7 blasts biopsied for PGS.  6 Healthy Embryos frozen for FET.
    FET of 1 embryo 7/12
    BFP on 7/17/17 Beta #1 10dpt = 524 Beta #2 12dpt = 1432 US at 5+5 shows healthy baby with heartbeat. Baby girl due 3/30/18 



  • @becausescience I felt that my folks were really stressed about making sure I was encouraged to learn outside of my school books because I didn't have teachers to direct me. Their parents did not do anything like this, and I think they wanted to steer clear of how they were raised. They really did not enjoy public school, and were pretty much left alone by their parents, so they tried hard to be good teachers. I think every parent is different, some stressing math and others reading. Mine clearly stressed the reading aspect, while I lacked math skills. 
    My husband was both homeschooled and public schooled, but was never interested in reading. His folks did not do the delight-directed reading, and I wonder if that was why he never enjoyed reading as a kid. 
  • @antoto Sorry, just saw your question! I think since you are asking specifically about the science component, I'll detail what my curriculum taught. The books that I used were very specific in detailing darwinism, various biological/anthropological finds in evolution, and most of the accepted evolutionary examples (Horse evolution, etc). They wanted to make sure we knew the theories so they could give their own explanations of how they viewed them as flawed. They left it to us to make our own decisions about what to believe. 
    Not all of the christian curriculums will do this, and I know some of them leave it out altogether. I liked that ours made us think critically about it, and I understand how it can be frustrating when some curriculums leave it out completely  :/
    barrelocarol
  • @cford08  That game last night was epic!


    Ugg I am soo tired of the folks at my work talking like Trump's a saint. Huurk 
    cford08bettyvonsomethingstein
  • antotoantoto
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    member
    edited October 2017
    pregobeth said:
    @antoto Sorry, just saw your question! I think since you are asking specifically about the science component, I'll detail what my curriculum taught. The books that I used were very specific in detailing darwinism, various biological/anthropological finds in evolution, and most of the accepted evolutionary examples (Horse evolution, etc). They wanted to make sure we knew the theories so they could give their own explanations of how they viewed them as flawed. They left it to us to make our own decisions about what to believe. 
    Not all of the christian curriculums will do this, and I know some of them leave it out altogether. I liked that ours made us think critically about it, and I understand how it can be frustrating when some curriculums leave it out completely  :/
    I now have this serious desire to see this material for myself to see how they describe stuff.  I bet I could find something online...

    ETA Yep found a bunch of overviews for products for purchase online.  Yeah.... we're gonna just have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Me:29  DH:33
    Married: 3/1/14
    TTC #1: 4/16
    Dx PCOS (Non IR) 10/16
    5mg Femara + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 11/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 75 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 12/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 150 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel +IUI +Progesterone: 1/17 = BFN
    Preparing for IVF - Birth Control: 4/17 Stims: 5/17 
    IVF retrieval 6/17: 21 eggs retrieved, 20 mature.  17 fertilized with ICSI.
    7 blasts biopsied for PGS.  6 Healthy Embryos frozen for FET.
    FET of 1 embryo 7/12
    BFP on 7/17/17 Beta #1 10dpt = 524 Beta #2 12dpt = 1432 US at 5+5 shows healthy baby with heartbeat. Baby girl due 3/30/18 



  • For the record, I was not asking about the whole natural birth thing from a place of thinking one way is better than another. I was honestly asking what it meant because I've seen varying definitions. I agree with someone else (I forget who and I'm on mobile so not going back) who said all births are natural and amazing! Also, I don't understand why people are so curious about how women give birth. Last I checked, it didn't matter!

    @cford08 the other day someone was talking about how Bill Cosby was at one point the most well-liked actor "and now look at him. Poor Bill." Poor Bill?! Bill is not the victim here!!!! Pissed me off so much.
    DDRRT1982bettyvonsomethingstein
  • @antoto no hard feelings at all! I’m glad to have had the discussion. 

    @DDRRT1982 I’ve never worked L&D, but while learning maternity and doing maternity clinical rotation, I never heard the term “natural birth”. They only passed along vaginal or CS and what type of pain med, if any, was used. Our instructor told us that natural likely meant vaginal to most, but it wasn’t a term we’d use IRL. 


    antotoDDRRT1982
  • My folks used Abeka. It is super traditionalist christian and they are VERY strong on the young earth, bible-based creationism. They try to give an argument against every evolution claim. Stuff like explaining the dinosaurs by saying that lizards don't stop growing, and if Adam and Eve lived for a thousand years, then lizards could grow to dinosaur size... Even as a kid I questioned some of their arguments against some aspects of evolution, and I thinks that's speaks more to my folks that they encouraged me to talk about my own ideas about it. Not all families would be open to debate. But Abeka did cover most of the evolutionary theories, even if they did everything they could think of to make us not want to believe in it. 
    barrelocarol
  • pregobeth said:
    My folks used Abeka. It is super traditionalist christian and they are VERY strong on the young earth, bible-based creationism. They try to give an argument against every evolution claim. Stuff like explaining the dinosaurs by saying that lizards don't stop growing, and if Adam and Eve lived for a thousand years, then lizards could grow to dinosaur size... Even as a kid I questioned some of their arguments against some aspects of evolution, and I thinks that's speaks more to my folks that they encouraged me to talk about my own ideas about it. Not all families would be open to debate. But Abeka did cover most of the evolutionary theories, even if they did everything they could think of to make us not want to believe in it. 
    While I can only see overviews of this stuff I wouldn't really be surprised if they were not accurately describing the process correctly either...

    I am really glad you had parents who encouraged you to be more independent with your thinking though!
    Me:29  DH:33
    Married: 3/1/14
    TTC #1: 4/16
    Dx PCOS (Non IR) 10/16
    5mg Femara + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 11/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 75 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 12/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 150 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel +IUI +Progesterone: 1/17 = BFN
    Preparing for IVF - Birth Control: 4/17 Stims: 5/17 
    IVF retrieval 6/17: 21 eggs retrieved, 20 mature.  17 fertilized with ICSI.
    7 blasts biopsied for PGS.  6 Healthy Embryos frozen for FET.
    FET of 1 embryo 7/12
    BFP on 7/17/17 Beta #1 10dpt = 524 Beta #2 12dpt = 1432 US at 5+5 shows healthy baby with heartbeat. Baby girl due 3/30/18 



    pregobeth
  • Gingermom15Gingermom15
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    member
    edited October 2017
    pregobeth said:
    My folks used Abeka. It is super traditionalist christian and they are VERY strong on the young earth, bible-based creationism. They try to give an argument against every evolution claim. Stuff like explaining the dinosaurs by saying that lizards don't stop growing, and if Adam and Eve lived for a thousand years, then lizards could grow to dinosaur size... Even as a kid I questioned some of their arguments against some aspects of evolution, and I thinks that's speaks more to my folks that they encouraged me to talk about my own ideas about it. Not all families would be open to debate. But Abeka did cover most of the evolutionary theories, even if they did everything they could think of to make us not want to believe in it. 
    This is exactly why my parents opted against Christian based curriculum . 
    Lizards that don’t stop growing.... c’mon lol

    edited to correct a word
    antotonotthefather
  • @pregobeth I have enjoyed them, they are just awesome! I'm really happy for the fans that were rooting for them when they were turrrrrible. Can't say I was one of them. Just call me Bandwagon Betty  :D

    @stlbuckeye132 Yaaassss! Like I tell folks all the time, just because he raised y'all on the Cosby show doesn't mean he's above dropping them Quaaludes! Money and power don't disqualify folks from being trash. Girl I could rant on all 3 of them for DAYS.
    Pregnancy Ticker
    pregobethstlbuckeye132bettyvonsomethingsteinmuggle621
  • Yeah I looked it up.  Apparently the University of California as well as the National Center for Science Education has criticized Abeka for how they handle the topic of evolution.  Which is just too bad because I had such an amazing experience learning about evolution.  I ended up taking a course in college just to learn more about it in depth and I would seriously take the course again just for funsies.  
    Me:29  DH:33
    Married: 3/1/14
    TTC #1: 4/16
    Dx PCOS (Non IR) 10/16
    5mg Femara + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 11/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 75 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel + IUI + Progesterone: 12/16 = BFN
    5mg Femara + 150 IU Gonal-F + Ovidrel +IUI +Progesterone: 1/17 = BFN
    Preparing for IVF - Birth Control: 4/17 Stims: 5/17 
    IVF retrieval 6/17: 21 eggs retrieved, 20 mature.  17 fertilized with ICSI.
    7 blasts biopsied for PGS.  6 Healthy Embryos frozen for FET.
    FET of 1 embryo 7/12
    BFP on 7/17/17 Beta #1 10dpt = 524 Beta #2 12dpt = 1432 US at 5+5 shows healthy baby with heartbeat. Baby girl due 3/30/18 



    cford08
  • @antoto I think every christian curriculum that talks about evolution and then tries to speak against it is going to get the third degree. We switched curriculum one year to a different one, it didn't talk about evolution at all, and many other areas were lacking as well. I hated that curriculum and we switched back to Abeka the next year.  

  • @Cowboycorgi I am so scared for that... I've read enough horror stories already to scar me for life. I'm terrified to go through it myself!
    Cowboycorgimuggle621
  • @Cowboycorgi @stlbuckeye132  Yes! This scares the pants off me too. When I told my mom I was pregnant, she had to spill the whole "I was torn all aver down there" horror stories, and about how all her friends had tears, and how pooping was virtually impossible for a while...  :#  I was scared to death! I think she realized she majorly upset me and hasn't talked about it since. She is definitely a woman warrior and I am still a little scared padawan. 
    Cowboycorgistlbuckeye132cford08barrelocarol
  • Here's my crappy opinion.  I just got this thing popping up on my screen for the second day in a row while on TB app. Our FB migration cannot come soon enough :/
    Me too!  I keep getting it.
    bettyvonsomethingstein
  • mmom3 said:
    Here's my crappy opinion.  I just got this thing popping up on my screen for the second day in a row while on TB app. Our FB migration cannot come soon enough :/
    Me too!  I keep getting it.
    I’m sure you both know that it is fake (meaning not from Apple) so close all your windows and clear your history so that it stops popping up. 
    bettyvonsomethingstein
  • I should have clarified the poop part is what is terrifying me. Labor too, yes, but like you said, there's a reward at the end! The poop after though... scares me haha
    pregobethCowboycorgimuggle621
  • I love the discussion re: home school vs. public school. Well said on both sides--thank you! Regarding the substandard education that more than a few HS kids receive, I worked in a rural district (9th and 12th grade English Language Arts) for nearly a decade, and we saw many HS kids come through whose parents sought out our school for how small and rural we were. They often hoped we had more traditional approaches and curriculum, and many were quick to pull their kids from reading certain novels and request independent study.

    From the ELA perspective, it kills a small part of me every time a parent denies their child the opportunity to read diverse texts from diverse perspectives. (This goes for students in PS and those who were HS.) As @antoto mentioned, critical thinking doesn't just happen, and it's a powerful and crucial part of the learning process when students are exposed to a variety of perspectives, lives, and experiences. Two anecdotal bits about how some HS families diminish the reputation of other HS families:

    We had a family with 28 children, half of whom were adopted, and half of whom were biological. They kept the girls home to HS them. The girls were not receiving an education. At 9th grade, some of them were allowed to transition to our school, and they were grossly under-educated, which left most with the inability to read at the elementary level. Their claims about HSing were brought into question, there were further investigations into the family, and many of the children were sent into the foster care system due to the negligence of the parents. My heart breaks for those children. Another family came to us from rural Alaska where the parents owned a lumber company. They were "HSed" but really, not. They "read" the Bible each morning, and then worked for the family. I had a student who was on her way to graduation (per her age), and she could hardly make it through an elementary level "beginner" chapter book. Unfortunately, these stories are just two of a multitude who went through our rural area. Some parents pulled their kids and moved before more could be done, and many of these families exist elsewhere. This certainly isn't the rule, and my prayer is that it's the exception, but there are people among us who use that system as a means for something other than truly educating. My impression as an educator is that this is where the problem lies. 

    I'm curious about the accountability of homeschooling in a broader sense. I've always wondered how some of these families were able to go so long with really not educating their children. 

    @pregobeth and @gingermom15, any insight? Thanks for your discussion on this!
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    notthefatherchasingroygbiv
  • @barrelocarol I love that you took a picture hahaha that's amazing
    barrelocarol
  • npkat said:
    I haven't really put much thought on the first poop after labor, but I am definitely fearful of pooping DURING labor  :|

    Worst fear, because my husband would talk about that for decades.  It also doesn't help that the first nurse that taught me how to push said to push like you are having a bowel movement.  I did, fortunately nothing happened, but I effectively pushed out my babies and it's definitely my technique now.
    fragglemomcford08
  • npkat said:
    I haven't really put much thought on the first poop after labor, but I am definitely fearful of pooping DURING labor  :|
    I definitely pooped during labour. But the nurse was so discreet about it. DH had already told me he wasn't going to look. I remember seeing the nurse occasionally wipe the table clean. And I kept asking if I was pooping and she was like "don't you even worry about whether or not you're pooping" lol

    As for the poop POST labour. I didn't even know this was something to be fearful of! Lol!!! I'm slightly lactose intolerant and I remembered my first poop after labour because I HAD TO GO! I remember being anxious about it at the time, but it was easy peasy. Maybe because it was an urgent matter. I think the more you stress about it before hand, the more you'll avoid going and make it a worse situation. I know easier said than done but try not to worry about it!
    stlbuckeye132muggle621leilaquinnHappyMonkey817
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