Angry vent ....

carlyhammond

I know most of you probably won't care, but I really need to get this off of my chest (I have angry furrowed eyebrows). I was scrolling around Facebook and I came across a "friends" status - I understand people have their own opinions but good God Almighty! ( I will post a picture of what I'm talking about at the end, her name has been cropped out)

Everyone has their own opinions on how things are, and I'm not saying her opinion is wrong per se, it might be how she chose to word her opinion.
I am a FTM, this particular woman has no kids ( besides her fur babies 2/3 cats 1 dog) if you saw her Facebook you'd probably think she needed a metal evaluation as to how she treats her animals like humans - again not saying it's wrong-
But, to say that a CHILD is the reason why a DOG attacks them is a little extreme, and if your kid is too young to understand then keep them away. If I have a child and I want to visit ( insert person who has animal) you are going to say I cannot because my child is too young to understand not to tug on "fido's" tail.
That's like saying you can't breast feed in the middle of a restaurant. (Ok maybe not- but it makes me feel like it limits me to where my child and I can go)
Am I overreacting? Maybe.
I'm just picturing in my head going over to her house (which I wouldn't in the first place - childhood friend, but not close anymore) and her animal attacking my kid and her blaming my kid for "bothering the animal" - but my child didn't know any better....
I have no animals apart from my goldfish, but my family members do- so chances are my child won't know how to act around a dog because he's not around them often.

This is a ramble, I know.
Am I wrong?

ashhsa

I sort of disagree. I think if she is worried how how dog might react around a child she is being responsible to say that no children should be around the dog. Of course you are right a child is not intentionally bothering a dog knowing the risk but it does not matter to the animal, it is going to react how its instinct tells it to and its in your best interest to prevent that. HOWEVER- to say that a child "gets what it deserves" as she did is discusting!! As you say- they are innocent and not aware, (usually) and no child "deserves" to be attacked by an animal- no matter there behaiviour.

I agree with her overall message though, it's up to us to teach children to be safe around animals- and if they can't be trusted not to pull a dogs tail- they absolutely should NOT be aloud around that dog.

carlyhammond

Hm, I guess i didn't think about it in that sense ( the if you think your dog cannot be trusted around a child etc)
I mean if I don't feel comfortable around a dog then I wouldn't bring my child aroun a dog.
Luckily my moms dog is old, he tents to run away from children at this point but he doesn't mind being petted by children until they yank his tail- he doesn't get angry he just runs away.

My sister however has three dogs,
One is very.... Particular...... That's the only one I'm concerned about my child pulling on. There are times when I'll touch is leg he will growl at me and I didn't mean to touch him- he's a sweet dog don't get me wrong he's just particular-

I didn't think about that aspect, but her saying "your kid deserves it" takes it to an extreme...

willashbaby

I have a dog and two cats. One of the cats is an asshole. She will lay on her back acting like she wants her belly to be rubbed and then "playfully" attack, but she's got claws. I ALWAYS warn ANYONE about her, you can pet her but do not pick her up, do not touch her tummy. I've had grown adults not listen to me and then get scratched. THEY should know better, children can't help it (small ones) but their parents can. If I tell you to keep your kid away from my cat and you don't listen then it's your problem. That's how I handle it. Whenever I visit someone's home with pets I always ask about the pets first. 

fragglemom

We knew we would be having children when we started looking for a dog. A main reason we adopted our particular dog is that she is very submissive/tolerant. We still run little drills with her to make sure she can still handle things like attempting to take her food away from her ( seriously...she's an angel). Not all dogs are so tolerant. I agree that children should be taught that dogs are not toys. It's my responsibility to teach my son that just because our dog tolerates tail pulling, etc., does not make it okay. I recently saw a little girl get bitten by a dog ( which was a stranger to her) when she attempted to hug it. Neither party was wrong, but I found myself thinking that the little girl should have been taught that you shouldn't pet a dog until you've asked the owner for permission first.
So...yeah. I agree with the list your " friend" posted, but her statement was a bit severe.

Vamason89

As a parent, it's your job to prepare your child for life the best you can. Respecting animals is part of that -- from wild animals to pets. I HATE when kids run up to my dogs and parents don't correct their behavior. I have goldens and obviously they're the most adorable creatures ever but that doesn't mean they're friendly. (They are but strangers don't know that.) What if something happened and the child got hurt? Setting aside fault, it's preventable by teaching kids that they need to ask and be calm around strange animals.

maddisonwallace

I'm dead on the fence about this.

Whenever I was little I was attacked by my cousins dog because I reached over to pet him while he was eating something in the grass. My uncle and aunt said it was 100% my fault because he was eating and even though I was 7 I should've known better. Then a few months later they were forced to put him down because he mauled another dog for peeing in the yard... So obviously he had some aggression issues.

I think it's really important to teach kids to be respectful and careful around ALL animals, but I think it's equally important to be a responsible pet owner. So do I think little Sally can tug and pull on my dogs ears and tail and expect that he not react? Absolutely not. But if I know that my dog is sensitive about that, I'm just not going to let him around kids and if he has to be then the kids will have fair warning and if they continue to do it then they did "deserve" it.

PedsIsHardcore

I don't think she is entirely in the wrong but it says if a child hurts her animal then she will hurt the child.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for what is theirs, period.
My DD loves dogs and cats so its my job to make sure she is supervised and to keep how she interacts with the animal respectful to the animal as well to ensure neither are hurt. She is required to ask to pet an animal from the owner and she has to allow the animal to smell her hand before she pets them because its up to the animal if she can too. There are many reasons an animal may not want to be touched.
I have a cat and a lot of friends have pets so its a big deal to keep everyone safe.

carlyhammond

It might have been the tone of her text that I find disturbing.
Yes- I agree with it to an extent, now that I'm not angry with the way she worded it.
Yes, parents DO need to tech thee children right from wrong (in all things not just animals) and per owners need to keep an eye on their animals.
But, I do not think children are entirely totally at fault.
I can tell little Sally all day long, mind the dog he's angry today don't bother him- but the kid ( I was one of these ) that would let the dog anyway (because I can make it feel happy -- I was a weird kid)
Children will be children, and animals will be animals.
Am I concerned about the pets that are in my family ( my moms dog and my sisters 3 ) not at all- but that doesn't mean that I will let my son be alone with them because who knows maybe the dog is super cranky that day and I dont know and baby decided to pet said dog (pet meaning pull) and the dog snaps.
I believe it is up to the parents AND the dogs owner to be on the same page ... I'll watch my kid, you watch your dog.
My sister has had all three of her dogs professionally trained- she knows their warning signs. But that doesn't mean I'll leave my child alone with the dog so I can go to the bathroom for a second.

carlyhammond

Also, I had a very long discussion with my sister about this topic after I posted it- and she kind of helped me see both sides to the argument.
I'm thinking mommy minded where my child does no wrong..
My "friend" is thinking dog mommy minded where her dogs/animals do no wrong.

l4rk

My SS wasn't taught how to properly interact with animals. He loves animals but got terrible reactions from them because he didn't act appropriately. He would stare down dogs, throw cats in the air, etc. I considered it my responsibility to correct that behaviour and teach him how to treat animals. I think it's up to parents to teach kids how to act around animals (and to ALWAYS ask permission before approaching), and it's up to animal owners to minimize the risk to others when people do careless things. It's a mutual responsibility.

ashhsa

@carlyhammond just keep in mind- that just because your mothers dog has not reacted yet to children pulling its tail- does not mean it never will, dogs can't communicate when they have had enough so it wouldn't be unusual for a dog who has put up with it before to turn around and growl/bark/snap one day.

Sort of off track but I work from home, and you wouldn't believe how many people just let there kids Harrass my cat and when I tell them he isn't used to children and to leave him alone the parents say "it's fine they are used to cats they have one at home" my cat- is not your cat, and your child might be fine with cats, but I honestly don't know how my cat is going to react, like a lot of cats he is quick to turn. So I agree with pp it is always always best to ask, and when or if the owner says it's not okay Or to be cautious then listen to them.

nlwz123

I think it is both up to the owner of the dog to train the dog, but also up to the parents to teach their children how to treat animals (which I think is a good lesson anyways.  Everyone should learn from an early age to treat animals and humans with respect).  You can have the best trained dog ever, but if a tiny little kid comes up to it and starts kicking it and pulling it's ears, well...guess what happens?

mamakculb

I agree with most pp here. We have two dogs and my son LOVES both of them so much, but often loves on them too much, leaning on them to hug them or wanting to touch them while eating. I work hard trying to teach him to never bother them while eating and to always approach them in a kind, gentle manner. Neither of my dogs have ever been aggressive towards him, but one-you never know when a dog has reached its limit, and two-I want him to have the same rules for every dog he meets. When we are interacting with dogs we are unfamiliar with, I always ask if they're friendly or if he should just stay away. I never let my son walk up to a dog I don't know, or pet a dog when we're out walking without asking the owner, you just don't assume every dog wants your attention! I've done the same with my older dog who is a bit anxious and has erratic behavior. When we have guests I put him in my bedroom and when we go walking I politely tell people he's not very friendly when they ask to pet him. He's never attacked anyone but he gets nervous easily and has reacted defensively.

It's the job of the parent to educate the child to respect animals and protect themselves, and it's the job of the pet owner to protect their pet and not allow them to be in a situation where they feel threatened and might attack.

ashs88

I agree with a lot of the pp's that both kids and dogs need to be taught how to deal with each other. We got our dog from the humane society and she had some major issues stemming from how she was treated by her previous owner. It took us a long time to get her to fully trust us enough to even be able to pick her up. Now almost 10 years later she still doesn't like when people, especially unfamiliar people, get close to her face or come near her while she's eating. We were very worried about this when we had DS, but luckily through working with both DS and our dog on getting used to each other they've both been wonderful. Whenever we are on walks and kids come up and want to pet our dog I always tell them not to go near her face and I keep her on a short leash and watch her closely for her stressed cues in case I need to quickly pull her away. I also have to remind my nieces and nephew to be careful with her whenever they visit because they have a dog that they can literally wrestle with and he loves it. So while I do think that kids need to be taught how to act with animals and parents need to be responsible for watching their kids around animals, it is still the pet owner's responsibility to watch the animal and take them out of a situation if need be. If anything ever did happen with my dog attacking a kid, I would never blame the child or say that they deserved it.

Mommyduclos

This is something I was thinking about the other day. My in laws have grouchy dogs. We have an awesome, very tolerant dog. I definitely discourage wild play and any of the activities listed in your friend's post, as well as make my kids ask before petting a new animal. I want them to learn to be respectful and safe, but they are toddlers and aren't perfect and things can happen so fast especially when you are hanging out at someone's house with a dog and not just saying hi to a dog on a walk. Anyways, the other day my son went to pet my in laws dog, not pull on him or hit him or anything of the sort but just to gently pet his head- I guess the dog didn't like his movements freaked out and nipped his finger. My father in law talked to my son about how he can't approach dogs like that, which I respect but I was also annoyed because my son wasn't being mean, he knows how to pet gently and knows this dog and has pet him before, so my thought is if your dog is that unstable, you should put him away when small, unpredictable kids are around, though they refuse because the dog is "family" but it just makes our visits so stressful.

I also have to look at the law- if a dog attacks a person or another animal it will likely put down if the incident is reported, without much regard to "why" so while I think it is very important to teach children respect and safety around animals I think it is MORE on the hands of the pet owner to determine the pets limitations and put the pet away for visits or say no to a pet from someone who may upset your dog. I'm thinking like 60/40 split. If you are concerned your pet may react badly, take the necessary precautions because you don't know how much animal education the child has had and toddlers can be very unpredictable.

saraellenM

My husband was attacked by a family members dog when he was just two years old. He almost lost his left eye. He has a pretty sexy scar now, but I can't imagine what his mom went through seeing her baby like that. My husband was laying on his belly playing with matchbox cars minding his own business and this dog just came over and attacked him. I don't trust any animals that I don't know well around my daughter because they can be unpredictable. I've also seen pet owners over the years be very surprised by their pets reactions when they've said they were fine around people. Both parties, owners and parents have a huge responsibility to make sure everyone stays safe. If I have a friend or family member who won't put their unpredictable animal away when they invite us to visit I will stop going over there.

MamaHolland

If you would teach your child how to behave in a car, at a street intersection, on an escalator, it's fitting to also teach children how to behave & interact with animals.

EmmyMommy123

I think by nature animals can be unpredictable and I take this into account when having children interact with animals. I also think that an animal's situation has a lot to do with it - so my friends who have puppies or dogs that are still maturing I'll be more wary of because the dog simply hasn't had all the training it might need. Because I feel that animals are unpredictable by nature, I prefer to take full responsibility over how the child in my care is interacting with the animal and be completely present during interactions.

When the girls I nanny see a dog they'd like to interact with, we ask the owners if we can pet the dog, and we pet the dog together - me leading the interaction so if the dog is going to snap it's going to snap at me first. I also show them how to be calm and go slow and hold their hand out far enough away at first so as not to startle the dog. This is the same that I plan to do with my children - they aren't going to be allowed to play with or hug a dog that we don't know - just gentle short pets after the owner approves. My parents had a dog who recently passed away that had been in the family since l was 15. Since I didn't grow up around dogs I was always more cautious of her around children than my parents (and sometimes the children's parents were) even though I trusted she would never intentionally hurt. I just knew sometimes she got excited and might accidentally knock over a small child or run at the child in a way that scares the child, etc. I had her interact with the girls I nanny and still made sure I was totally aware of what they and the dog were doing at all times. Better safe than sorry is how I feel!

I agree with pps that if you know your dog could be aggressive, it's probably best to just avoid a child/dog interaction, but not every owner will feel that way. Some may think you should keep your child at home. Do I agree? No, but I understand that that's their view. If that were the case I wouldn't have my child interacting with that dog.

I think coming from the standpoint that if a child gets hurt its their fault is not ok and I would just keep my child away from a dog who's owner takes that standpoint all together.

I also have been around dogs that don't seem aggressive, but are more vigorous than I'm comfortable with (running as fast as they can all the time, jumping up, just generally large), and so I plan to ask that if they want my child present at their house or the dog present at my house, that the dog hangs out somewhere else for most of the time so it's not a constant stressful interaction. If that's not ok with them then we'll have to go from there.

kimberlypohl

I think that maybe her wording was strange but also kids need to be taught how to treat animals because they don't know it's wrong to tug ears or pull tails! I also get upset when I see people letting their kids crawl all over their animals because no matter how well behaved they are they can also get mad or annoyed and snap at you.

laur0n

In my own personal opinion, I don't agree with them saying the kid or whoever deserves what they get. Not all dogs are the same. Heck, I used to hug my moms dog lol but the dog also knew me and I knew how she'd react to different things. At my husbands grandparents house, I literally use a couple of their dogs as a pillow if I'm laying on the couch and I'll put my head on their back or side. One of their dogs has very little tolerance when it comes to kids and people know that. My son will be taught that not all animals are friendly. Yet somehow my stepdaughter thinks all animals love her. She'll get in a dogs face when they're eating (no matter how many times you tell her to leave them alone), the animal could growl/hiss at her and she still laughs and says "he/she likes me!"

maureenmce

I think it's pretty jerky to say a child "deserves" to be attacked by a dog (because a kid never deserves to be attacked, they're too small to understand their behavior clearly) but it is definitely part of being a responsible parent to teach your kid to interact safely with animals.  I have had the experience of toddlers and small kids full on RUNNING and screaming at my dog and trying to pet him while we're on walks.  Believe it or not, he's not a fan!  He is a very sweet dog, but he's a rescue and does not like his face fur being touched and certainly not aggressively ruffled by any strangers, kid or adult!  (Side note - you would be shocked at how many full grown adults who should know better, will aggressively pet and/or get in the face of a small dog without asking.  Just because they're small doesn't mean that is going to go well!)

Even animals in your own household are still animals and have their boundaries.  My brother was bitten in the hand by our family dog when we were small, but it was because he had (when my parents weren't looking) hopped on his back like he was a horse and was pulling his ears like they were reins.  (Uh, side note, have NO idea how he even thought to do this in the first place at 3 years old!)  The dog never bit anyone again in his entire life and was NOT an aggressive dog, but that particular situation was just too much for him to handle.  And even though our dog (and our two cats) are wonderful and loving animals and I have no concerns about them getting along with baby overall, they will not be unsupervised when our baby is small, ever.  You just never know what a little kid will do and how an animal will react, 100% of the time.

Anyway, people who let their kids run up on a strange animal are not being very responsible, just like dog owners who let their dogs off leash run up on a strange dog.  It's definitely bad behavior, though, again, like PP, I don't think it's great wording to say anyone "deserves" to be attacked, much less a small child.

usernametaken1

My dogs get all the things on he not allowed list done to them and never seem to mind. If dd is laying on top of them or tying to climb on top and they are annoyed they'll just walk away. I guess she could get hurt if they stood up to fast and she slid or fell off.

That said, MIL's dog is always mistreated by the little cousins at every family get together and is extremely weary of children. MIL always crates her when dd comes over, just in case. I told her to leave her out and told dd that she wasn't like our dogs because some little kids were mean to her and now she's scared of kids. I told dd to just ignore the dog and pretend she didn't exist. After a few trips the dog started approaching dd, MIL was nervous but it's a chihuahua (a small one too.). Now she lets dd pet her and gently takes treats from her hand.

Good lesson for both of them, dd and dog that is, dd learned not all dogs are tolerant of the shit ours put up with, and dog learned not all kids are assholes.

rachel10488

Yeah I think your friend was over the line putting all the blame on kids. Dogs are not humans afterall...as much as I would also like to believe that mine are haha.
My sister has a 2lb chihuahua that is the nastiest dog I've ever met. People have nicknamed it Devil Dog because it literally attacks everyone. I have never been able to pet her but any time anyone tries in the most gentle and loving way she snaps at you and will break skin immediately cause she's not messing around. I have no idea how my sister will ever have children with this dog because how are you going to keep an 8 month old crawling baby who doesn't know enough to be taught away from a dog? You can't blame that on a kid, it's clearly the dog so the dog owner is responsible for making sure she doesn't harm anyone.
On the other hand I have 2 dogs, one is young and has yet to meet a child in her life so I have no idea how she really will be. My other literally worships children and babies...she likes them way more than adults and I think it's because she sees them as a source of treats because she follows them around picking up food after them. Dog owners absolutely have just as much, if not more, responsibility than parents to teach dogs how to behave just as kids should be taught how to behave. My personal method is since my dogs were puppies I often acted like a child would towards them. I laid there with them while they ate "bothering" them so they've never been aggressive with food, I lay on them, hug them, kiss their faces constantly, I would never pull their tails but otherwise there's nothing a child would (non aggressively) do to them that I haven't done so they are used to it all.

mg137

I agree with what I skimmed in the picture she posted but her comments are stupid. Don't get too worked up about it. If you let yourself get worked up about every stupid thing someone says on facebook you're going to be a very angry person.

CBWifey

Your friends tone was kind of off putting to me. I have seen that picture posted by a women I worked in German Shepherd Rescue with. I have a GSD and no matter how hard I trained her I have never been able to curb her prey drive with the ball or food aggression. Knowing these two things, knowing your animals is what's best for your children. I know to keep my daughter away from her in those examples. I also watch like a hawk my dogs physical reactions and behavior, if her hips hurt too much, I can tell she wants to be left alone, this is why baby gates are your friend. No matter how hard you try, sometimes you just can't prevent something fast enough, insert baby gate, a physical separation. My daughter got bit by my cat at 9 months because I wasn't quick enough to get to her before she hurt him. He now runs away most of the time. But when he does stay and she wants to hug him etc, I automatically block his face with my hand. I don't want to discourage her, but you have to know your child's limitations, and your pets limitations, when your child is pre verbal, they don't understand concepts like stay back, give space, etc. Having young children with pets can be trying at times, but I think in the end it is worth it.