Baby Mama Child Manipulation

LadyAnnibal

My SS is 4 years old. He calls me by my name or sometimes he slips up and calls me mommy. Either way I don't mind, he's four and I love him. Before he leaves to go back with his mom I always tell him to give me some "love" (hugs and kisses) and he does so, excitedly.

One day his mother comes and picks him up from my fiance's job and I don't get to hug him or say good bye because she snatches him away from us. He's playing Angry Birds on my phone because that's his favorite thing to do and his mom doesn't notice. Once he struggles with her she finally stops, snatches the phone from him and shoves It at my fiance.

Fast forward; a week ago we picked him up from daycare and he gave me the biggest hug and kiss and told me he was doing great in school. Every night before bed I tell him I love him and he just stares back at me. Finally, not understanding the reaction I ask if he loves me too. He says, "my mommy says I'm not allowed to love you." It broke my heart and I just laid in bed crying. At the end of the visit, he tossed my phone back at me when we were down the street from his house. I asked him to give me some love like usual and shook his head no and said, "my mommy said you can't kiss me." I nodded and gave him a hug and told him I'd see him next weekend.

I know there is nothing I can do because he isn't my son but it sucks. I love this little boy more than life. I pack his lunches, I buy his clothes, I take him out and he's been restricted by a jealous mom so that he can't even express how he feels. My fiance and I are expecting a baby in July and I'm afraid to tell my SS because I don't want his mother keeping him away from us. There is no court ordered custody just child support. She has already told us she is being this way because she is mad that my SO didn't go back out with her, even though she left him.

I guess I just needed to let that out. I try talking to my SO and he doesn't really get it.

alb2411

I'm very sorry you are dealing with this. I would have a serious talk with my SO about how he sees the blended family situation continuing, regardless of whether he "gets it" from your perspective or not. Does he think this behavior on the part of BM or your SS is appropriate?

First of all, there needs to be a court order in place or BM will continue to rule the roost with no backlash. Court orders, while they can be a pain to get, really and truly do protect everyone involved. It sounds like your situation will only get worse without one.

Secondly, I would ask my SO to email BM a polite, but firm, message about how the things she is saying to her child are affecting him negatively. Explain to her that you are not trying to take her place, but that a child needs to be able to express love freely and without guilt. The messages she is sending him are verging on parental alienation, even if you are not yet married to your SO. This email will serve as documentation of her actions should you go to court for custody.

Speaking of documentation, if your SO does decide to go to court, documentation will be your friend. Go ahead and get in the habit of communicating with BM in hard copy forms (email, text, etc.). Save all correspondence because you never know when it might come in handy.

Wahoo

Wow.  I am so sorry you are going through this, but the person most hurt by this is your SS!  Please reassure him that YOU love HIM, and that nobody can stop that! 

I would also strongly urge your fiance to pursue a court ordered visitation schedule.  You don't want to depend on his ex only allow SS to visit when she is feeling generous.  

I would also tell him that if he tosses your phone at you, he will no longer be allowed to play with it.  You deserve respect.  

LadyAnnibal

I've been trying to get him to file for some type of time-sharing/custody for months. He won't listen to me. I even went to the library at my school (I'm still in college) and looked up different information and things for him. I read a book called "Custody for Fathers" and since then I have made him save all of her nasty texts. He has a calendar where he writes down when we picked him up and how long we've had him. We take pictures of any cuts and scrapes he has on him when he pick him up so there is no way she can say it happened at our home. I've done everything except file the papers for him. She already said she's moving to Georgia in July and taking SS with her, but he won't move his ass.

It's insanely hard because he is constantly talking about how much he loves and misses his son, yet I can't get him to take the action needed. There is only so much I can do and it's hard for me to not snap at him when he's in the car depressed after we drop him off at home.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

FinallyHappy84

That's kind of tough if he's not acting to get a custody order...I would keep encouraging him to get one and stress the importance of it. Good job starting documentation and keep it at.Also look into a lawyer for help with the child custody as well.

LadyAnnibal

*Update*
We had SS for the weekend and Sunday night when we went to take him home he bawled. He begged us not to take him to his mom's house. He said he told her that he wanted to live with daddy and he got a beating, that she always tells him to go away because she's doing homework, that she's really mean to him.

The worse part is once again there is nothing I can physically do, it's all up to his dad to get the ball rolling and I know because he is only 4 a judge won't listen to him in court.

nattyncbride

I'm so sorry for everything going on.  You are doing all you can, but your FI needs to step up and take action.  I would keep bringing up the notion of a court order, getting a lawyer to help you put things in place formally.  Good luck.

Wahoo

If you weren't already pregnant with this man's child, I would rethink your relationship.  You are the one who packs SS's meals, take him out, buy his clothes.  Where the flip is his dad in all of this?  And his dad won't even stand up like a man and file for joint custody, protecting his child.

Just an FYI - if the mom decides to take her son to Georgia, she can without a C/O.  Then she can apply for custody and have it based on her son's residence in Georgia.  And your fi will have to go to court IN GEORGIA.  And explain why it would be his son's best interest to LEAVE Georgia for visits.  By that time, he will not be a 50-50 parent, so he will get thrown a few summer vacation weeks, plus every other holiday.  Nice.

alb2411

Wahoo took the words right out of my mouth. It would be very difficult for me to be with a man who was going to complain about his situation but not take any action to remedy it. This paired with all the work you seem to be putting in, and he is not, sounds like path to resentment.

To add to what she said about BM moving your SS out-of-state - in my situation, it took over a year from filing papers to receiving our court order, so if he wants more than holidays with his son and BM plans to move in the summer, he needs to act immediately. If he begins this process now, he could possibly keep her from moving with your SS, but if waits until after she is gone or filed for custody first, he is going to have a serious uphill battle.

LadyAnnibal

His dad is usually working, don't get me wrong I don't mind doing it. I love SS as if I'd birthed him myself. It's just hard because I know that if we file for majority time share we could get it, they don't do full custody where I live.

Thanks for all your advice, ladies. I'll see if I can't keep pushing him. He seems to think that everything will just play out if he does x,y, and z, but doesn't understand what he has to do to get there.

dmndsr4eva

LadyAnnibal said:

I've been trying to get him to file for some type of time-sharing/custody for months. He won't listen to me. I even went to the library at my school (I'm still in college) and looked up different information and things for him. I read a book called "Custody for Fathers" and since then I have made him save all of her nasty texts. He has a calendar where he writes down when we picked him up and how long we've had him. We take pictures of any cuts and scrapes he has on him when he pick him up so there is no way she can say it happened at our home. I've done everything except file the papers for him. She already said she's moving to Georgia in July and taking SS with her, but he won't move his ass.

It's insanely hard because he is constantly talking about how much he loves and misses his son, yet I can't get him to take the action needed. There is only so much I can do and it's hard for me to not snap at him when he's in the car depressed after we drop him off at home.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

I am sorry but it is not your job to do the research and tell him what to do.  He is the dad and if he doesn't want to be manipulated or wants to secure his relationship with his child then he should be doing the research and making the effort to do it.  Nothing irks me more than girlfriends and fiancés trying to take over in regards to dealing with their BF's kids and exes.

dmndsr4eva

LadyAnnibal said:

I've been trying to get him to file for some type of time-sharing/custody for months. He won't listen to me. I even went to the library at my school (I'm still in college) and looked up different information and things for him. I read a book called "Custody for Fathers" and since then I have made him save all of her nasty texts. He has a calendar where he writes down when we picked him up and how long we've had him. We take pictures of any cuts and scrapes he has on him when he pick him up so there is no way she can say it happened at our home. I've done everything except file the papers for him. She already said she's moving to Georgia in July and taking SS with her, but he won't move his ass.

It's insanely hard because he is constantly talking about how much he loves and misses his son, yet I can't get him to take the action needed. There is only so much I can do and it's hard for me to not snap at him when he's in the car depressed after we drop him off at home.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

It is not your job to do the research and tell him what to do.  He is the dad and if he doesn't want to be manipulated or wants to secure his relationship with his child then he should be doing the research and making the effort to do it.  Nothing irks me more than girlfriends and fiancés trying to take over in regards to dealing with their BF's kids and exes.

ambrvan

I have to second what @dmndsr4eva said. I understand where you're coming from because a lot of what you're feeling is similar to how my relationship with SD began. I was young (still am), and I was still in college, also.

But you have to realize that you cannot force him to be the dad you want him to be and take the responsibility and action you think he should (although your instincts about what should be done are correct). He has to do it on his own, take his own initiative.

Looking up information for him is one thing, but pushing him to take action he does not want to do on his own is not setting things up well for your future.

I hope he is a more motivated father for your child.

In the mean time, all you can do is control your relationship with SS. It's a hard pill to swallow, but the quicker you do, the better you'll be able to navigate the future storms.

Good luck.

shelbutler

First of all, I have a SD that is 4 and I'm also expecting in July - so how neat. 

Secondly - I have gone through this SAME thing, but from a different situation. My SD has never said, "my mommy says I can't....etc." however, the older she gets, the more she is combative with me. I have been in her life since she was 14 months old. I have cared for her as if she were my own, and often times, I feel like I spend more time with her than her Daddy does. That isn't true; but sometimes feels that way. My SD will often tell me, "I just want my mommy." "You're not my mommy." and you can always tell by the way she acts is certain scenarios that BM is influencing her reactions. One time, I accidentally pinched her buckling her in the car seat - it wasn't even that bad of a pinch, thank goodness but she immediately began screaming and saying that I PUNCHED her, not pinched and her mommy won't like me. I received phone calls later threatening DHR on me. I know that when she is not with us, her Mother tells her and asks her things in a way that makes things difficult when we get her back. There honestly isn't anything I can do about it; but it gradually has gotten better. Although, usually when it feels better it's about to blow up again. 

Thirdly, and just throwing this out there - but I don't think it is wise for him to not have a custody order in place or anything of that nature. She could manipulate that seriously without one. 

I wish you the best of luck! Sometimes though, you just have to step back and realize that you're marriage and your family is important - but there will remain that one variable that you cannot control. 

o_so_in_love

Wahoo said:

If you weren't already pregnant with this man's child, I would rethink your relationship.  You are the one who packs SS's meals, take him out, buy his clothes.  Where the flip is his dad in all of this?  And his dad won't even stand up like a man and file for joint custody, protecting his child.

Just an FYI - if the mom decides to take her son to Georgia, she can without a C/O.  Then she can apply for custody and have it based on her son's residence in Georgia.  And your fi will have to go to court IN GEORGIA.  And explain why it would be his son's best interest to LEAVE Georgia for visits.  By that time, he will not be a 50-50 parent, so he will get thrown a few summer vacation weeks, plus every other holiday.  Nice.

And most likely he will have to pay for all of transportation costs whereas if the court order was already in place she will have to pay for the transportation, or at least half of it.

o_so_in_love

More than 12 years ago, I was in the same boat with my DH. He was going to let BM walk all over him, she was even trying to convince him to give up his rights to his daughter. She was only three months old at the time. He was young, tried to avoid confrontation (she was brutal, along with her mother and her CPS sister), and he just didn't know what to do. Men do not understand women and how manipulative they can be sometimes. I pushed the issue, I know I was the driving force behind my husband putting child support on himself and getting a custody/visitation arrangement. I know that if he were in that situation today, he would stand his ground. He is a great father even though he needed that push in the beginning. I don't think it's wrong for you to do research or be that push to your fiancé. I don't know what type of relationship they had when they were together, but if she was manipulating him then, like she is now, he probably just doesn't know how to deal with it. He needs a strong supportive woman to back him. And if you can be that woman, I don't think that's wrong. You also have your child on the way to think about. If it were just you and your husband and he didn't want to fight for his child, I think that would be one thing. But that child is going to have a new sibling and they have a right to have a relationship with each other. Even if that means you are the one that has advocate for it in the beginning.

LadyAnnibal

Thank you, @o_so_in_love‌.

@dmndsr4eva‌ I'm not trying to MAKE him do anything. I'm trying to help him through this. He confided in me and told me what he wanted, I'm just trying to help him make it a reality. I'm not telling him what to do. I did my research and I give him advice. I'm not trying to take over anything. Had he never come to me saying he wanted to figure out how to get his son/spend more time with him then I wouldn't have bothered.

+just+j+

Honestly, I would see this as a HUGE red flag. I am speaking from experience. Do not marry this man until he steps up and does the right thing by his son.

He is ALLOWING this woman to manipulate him and it does not have yo be this way.

By not having a CO he is hurting his son. And it will only get worse.

FinallyHappy84

@becwheat‌ is right! Actions do speak louder than words.
Also after thought- how does he have a child support order but no custody order? I don't what state you live in but where I live they somewhat work hand in hand. Example: BM technically has primary physical because she has more calender days out of the year with SD so child support is more than it would be if it were an even 50/50 physical custody. There's also other factors such as medical and dental coverage and daycare, not just income.
The whole point of a custody order is for the best interest of the child/ren involved which is why they change when the home circumstances change. If your SO isn't going to step up then his legal rights aren't going to matter because BM is doing all the work, and that's definitely how the court system will see it if she moves to a different state and he didn't attempt to do anything to make sure he still had time with his child.

CommanderD

Wahoo said:

Just an FYI - if the mom decides to take her son to Georgia, she can without a C/O.  Then she can apply for custody and have it based on her son's residence in Georgia.  And your fi will have to go to court IN GEORGIA.  And explain why it would be his son's best interest to LEAVE Georgia for visits.  By that time, he will not be a 50-50 parent, so he will get thrown a few summer vacation weeks, plus every other holiday.  Nice.

My husband's ex-wife attempted this, actually. They lived, were married, and had my stepson in Nebraska, but when my husband finally put his foot down and said he wasn't going to put up with being physically abused anymore, she took my stepson and ran off to Texas, and then filed for divorce there. However, since it was so soon afterwards, the courts still considered my stepson a Nebraska resident, so the divorce, custody and visitation, child support, etc was all handled through Nebraska. My husband claims that Texas child support is about five times as much as Nebraska's is--he tends to exaggerate so I'm not certain if this is true or not, but I do know that when my stepson decided this summer that he wants to live with us during the school year and decided to tell his mom the night we brought him back, she screamed at my husband that she hates herself for not waiting until my stepson was considered a Texas citizen.

So... (deep breath) As you can probably bell from that long paragraph, my situation's not the same as yours, but I still completely understand where you're coming from and sympathize. To all of the people blasting your fiance for not doing anything, while I understand their worry, I'm not sure if they realize how hard it is for a father to get decent parental rights in court. The only reason my husband did, really, was because his ex-wife was (is) kind of an idiot.

Best of luck to you. I hope everything works out. (And your due date is the same as mine!)

twister22

1) It is not right for BM to tell your SS not to express love to you. Your FI should sit down with SS and explain to him how blessed he is to have all these people in his life who love him, and that SS can love whoever HE wants to love, and that other people do NOT get decide who he does and doesn't love.

2) There should be a CO.

3) Your FI needs to be the one to initiate and take charge of filing for a CO, NOT you. If FI asks you for some help here and there, fine, but he needs to care more than you do.

4) You should seriously reevaluate your relationship. A tiger doesn't change its stripes, and I would not marry a man who is all talk and no action in regards to caring about his son.

Doridoodles

we have been going through the same thing for years and my step children are now teenagers. And one hates us so much she has not been with us for 6 months. Because of the manipulation of her mother she has taught her to hate us both it is very sad. I feel for you. ...those Crazy X wives are a nightmare. Hope things improve. ..just keep letting him Know you love him.