EP and Formula Feeding

formerwigirl

Good Morning Ladies,

I want to start of this post by asking you to please not chastise me because I am asking these questions. I'll give you my background but I am writing this post in hopes of finding support from other moms who are going through or went through something similar. I understand that breastfeeding is best but please keep an open mind as you read my history. Also a note that we will be seeing the pediatrician again on Tuesday so I intend to ask many of these questions to him.

I am a FTM and my LO just turned a week old on Friday. We had his pediatrician appointment when he was 4 days old. I walked in completely exhausted and when the doctor weighed him, he only weighed 5lbs 6oz. He was born at 6lbs even. (I know this doesn't seem drastic but I need to trust my pediatrician) The pediatrician recommended that we start supplementing to get his weight back up. He recommended an ounce or two but to also pump and give him what I could. A little about me-I have inverted nipples so I knew trying to breast feed wouldn't be easy. I got a shield immediately after giving birth and LO seemed to have a good latch. Unfortunately by the time we got home we were having marathon feeding sessions of 4-6 hours and LO just didn't seem satisfied. Then we saw the pediatrician who gave us the supplementing advice. I also deal with anxiety and depression and have been on medication for many years. I was very concerned about post partum and my doctors have all told me to stay on my meds. I got a lot of grief over being on those meds while in the hospital from one of the nurses even though the LC and my doctors said it was fine. (It really bothered me)

Since we started supplementing I have been able to enjoy my LO. I was stressing that he wasn't getting as much as he needed to keep his belly full and I cried over how I was a bad mother because of it. This past friday we met with a certified lactation consultant who weighed him then had me breast feed and then weighed him again. She told me that he was gaining weight and that I could probably discontinue supplementing but that she wanted me to pump as much as I could when he wasn't on the breast. I should also add that I dealt with major engorgement, the LC said it was the worst she had seen. I started to think about it and it stressed me out thinking that all I would have time to do was feed him, pump, and maybe get a bit of sleep. LO still feed for over an hour at a time when we got home that day and by that night we were back to supplementing. I've started pumping but I am only getting maybe an ounce for 30 minutes of pumping (15 min on each side). I've started to wonder if I should just switch over completely to formula at this point. I won't do anything definitively until we meet with the pediatrician though.

Im having a real hard time mentally dealing with the fact that I can't breast feed because I know that this is what is best. But then I feed him from the bottle with the supplement and I look at him being full. It makes me able to enjoy him instead of being frustrated that he isn't getting full from being on the breast. Plus I know he is getting his belly full. I still get to spend time with him but I am also able to get my sleep and my anxiety has decreased. Im just having a hard time being okay with formula and pumping. I know that mentally though I am in a better place than I would be if I was still forcing the breast feeding issue.

So my questions:
Will my supply ever increase enough so that I can EP? I feel like if anything it is doing down. Yesterday I was able to get 1 3/4 oz then starting last night and today I am only getting 1oz.

If you EP, what do you plan to do when you go back to work? I am off for another 9 weeks but then LO will be in daycare 3 days a week and with my DH the other 2 days that I work.

To those that formula feed-How did you deal with the guilt of not breast feeding? Also I know that they say it costs a lot to formula feed. How much on average do you think you spend on formula?

Also to those that formula feed-Did you loose the pregnancy weight any sooner or later? Or did you notice because you FF that you were able to get out and about more which helped you loose the weight. (I ask this because people say breast feeding helps you get back into shape)

Any advice or support anyone can offer would be much appreciated. My DH supports me either way but Im just having a hard time with all of this. I am hoping that by reaching out to other moms that it will help me come to grips and be okay with whatever decision I end up making.

rlyttle

Losing weight at first is VERY normal. My pedi just wants to see babies back to their birth weight at 2 weeks, but one week is considered very good. Only losing 10oz at 4 days doesn't seem like a reason to supplement to me. It is VERY normal for babies to eat hours on end. They go through growth spurts and generally eat lots of BM anyway. I had an inverted nipple when I had DD, but after nursing and pumping for a few weeks it actually changed a lot. Now it's a huge regular nipple. Don't feel bad for taking care of your baby. Do what you think is best, and that's all you can do. No judgement, but if I were you I would just keep EBF and see what the next couple of weeks bring.

conradraging

Okay, first thing I want to say is do not feel bad about having to choose an alternative way to feed your child. Breast may be "best", but in my opinion, you need to do what works for you and your baby. Whatever make mommy and baby happy and healthy is really what's best.

Having said that, I am an EPer and I deal with a little guilt every now and then but then I realize that LO is gaining perfectly and we are way happier than when she was screaming and crying at the breast.

Usually supply regulates by around 12 weeks, so 9 weeks gives you a good amount of time to try and increase your supply. After 12 weeks is usually a safe time to start dropping the amount of time you have to pump each day. We started an EP check in last Monday, and will continue to have that so you may find it helpful.

As far as formula feeding, I haven't had to do it but I do know if you sign up for the clubs like similac strong moms they'll send free samples and tons of coupons to help lessen the costs!

Good luck with whichever path you need to choose and just remember that you are doing what is right for you and your baby. Join the check in! It's for everyone who is having BF struggles and I hope everyone can help.

mrsdanielleM2010

I'm sorry this has been such a struggle for you! It sounds like every step you take you are just trying to do what's best for your son, and anyone who judges you for that can shove it. In my opinion, thank goodness formula exists as a reasonable and decent substitute for breastmilk, or there would be a lot of starving babies out there. I had to supplement the first four days because my colostrum didn't have enough in it to keep my lo's blood sugar regulated.

Anyway, I don't have advice about pumping and I'm not here to tell you what you should do. I just want you to know that whatever you wind up doing, screw anyone who has a problem with it.

Bella2425

It's 100% a personal decision. I only breastfed my DS for 2 weeks before switching to formula for various reasons. We were all SO much happier and satisfied after that. It was a hard decision and yeah, sometimes I felt bad but in the end I knew having a happy baby and mom was the most important thing. No regrets. Hang in there.

portentosa

It is totally normal for newborns to lose weight in the first few days of life.... breathing, crying, looking around, regulating body temp all takes a lot of calories so their weight takes a dip. Pedis typically like to see babies back at their birth weight by 2 weeks. The only reason I can imagine your pedi suggesting supplementing so quickly is because your LO is on the small side to start with... that's a guess though. All that said, I don't judge you at all for supplementing, I just wanted to point out that weight loss is normal, you ARE NOT a bad mom at all.

Babies are pretty good at getting themselves fed, sometimes that means emptying the breast in 20 minutes flat and going back to sleep, sometimes that means cluster feeding for 4 really frustrating hours. When my DD cluster feeds and I want to pull my hair out from exhaustion and frustration I remind myself that her nursing like that is priming my breasts to make more for her. She is growing fast and telling my breasts what she needs. Sometimes she pulls off the breast crying and seemingly unhappy with it... the reasons I've found for that behavior have been that she didn't like how fast my milk let down (I'll hand express some milk out and relatch her), she was gas (I'll bicycle her legs to help her fart), or she needs to burp. The 'witching hour' is a 1-3 hour stretch we go through almost every evening where she will pull off the breast crying and I can't do anything for her but rock her, switch her to the other side, and repeat until she finally nurses normally or falls asleep. I hate the witching hour with a passion. BFing is hard.

Regarding your pumping supply, I agree with conrad that you have tons of time still to up your supply. Are the amounts you're talking about what you're getting after your LO nurses? If so then you've got a great supply already! Babies can pull a lot of milk out of your breast and getting just half an oz is pretty typical right after a baby has emptied a breast. If you're pumping while your LO is taking a bottle then you could just be having trouble pumping. I had a lot of trouble getting my milk to let down for a pump my first few weeks using one. Try to relax, look at your LO, smell your LO, and drink lots of water before hand to help... and don't pay attention to the amount coming out. For me, watching the bottles fill up was a sure fire way to stop them filling.... keep your eyes off the bottles and keep your mind on your LO, a good book, a TV show, whatever will help you relax and not think about the ozs.

I don't get the guilt that is associated with FFing. It's never been a bad thing in my mind. Whatever gets baby fed is a good thing. I, personally, combo feed on purpose. My DH actually wanted to feed both our kids formula in addition to BM and we talked about it a lot before DS was born. I BF, FF, and pumped (once I went back to work) and it worked out well for us. I haven't given DD more than a couple ounces of formula yet, but there are benefits to formula feeding.... iron, fluoride (from the tap water), and a rest for those boobs! Add in the peace of mind from being able to SEE how much goes into your LO and FF is really awesome!

I wasn't EBFing so maybe that's why, but I did not lose weight from BFing.... in fact I was afraid to up my exercise too much or cut back the calories too much because I noticed a difference in my pumping output when I did.

I wish you the best of luck whichever path you choose to take feeding your LO.

((hugs)) mama

an02102

I have a very similar story to you.  My first son refused to latch and pumping amounted to nothing.  This time my son was great at latching and things were looking very promising.  He lost over a pound with in the first few days of life, I met with an LC and we did a weighed feeding and he only ended up getting 0.5 ounces during the feed.  I tried EP but was only pumping maybe an ounce each time, but with a 3 yo at home as well that was just not working.  We have eventually just switched to formula. 

 I will say switching this time was much harder then last time, since last time I could blame the baby but this time it is all on me.  It really helped when my mom who is very pro breastfeeding and made comments during my pregnancy even changed her tune when it came to I was miserable, ds2 was miserable from hunger and was a much different baby once we switched to a bottle.  It really is true that a happy mom= happy baby.  Do what you want to do for your health and sanity as much as what is good for the baby. 

debikae

I'm with you.  My LO is 10 days old and we began supplementing after we came home from the hospital.  We did it on our own as he lost a full pound in the hospital.  (He weighed over 10 lbs. to start with so hospital wasn't worried.)  Mommy was worried though, so we chose to supplement.  LO has never done well at the breast, but I am trying. 

Thursday evening we rented a hospital grade pump as the one the insurance provided just wasn't making the cut.  I've had 3 days of horrendous ups and downs with pumping and feel so ready to quit -- but the last two times I've pumped it went ok.  I know it's too early to give up, so I'm doing what it takes to get my LO my milk without having to supplement (eventually) -- but I so want him to be able to just BF as I had planned.

Hang in there -- there's lots of us in this position.

slowmo

Girl, I could have written a lot of your post myself! We had so many issues breastfeeding in the hospital. It didn't help that I gave birth on Sat. night, so I didn't see the lactation consultant until the day before my discharge. By that point, I was out of my mind with lack of sleep and frustration because my baby just wouldn't latch well. I was discharged without a solid grasp on breastfeeding, and the frustration continued at home. At our 1-week checkup, he had lost more weight (a total of 13 oz down from his birth weight) and was jaundiced and dehydrated. The doctor said we should supplement after each nursing attempt. We continued to struggle at home with BFing and saw a lactation consultant a few days later. She could help me get him to latch, but he wouldn't suckle effectively. She recommended attempting to BF, then supplementing, then pumping (8x a day), and we're still trying that. It's really exhausting, though FFing allows others to help, so my husband or mom can feed him a bottle while I pump. (Better yet, my husband can do a MOTN feeding and allow me to get some rest.)

I am still worried about my supply. My milk has never really come in full force, so I'm only getting 0.5 ounces to 1.5 ounces per pumping session (more first thing in the morning and less as the day goes on). Like @tromboner said, relaxation, distraction, and being near my baby seem to help, in addition to proper hydration/nutrition. My LC told me to eat more carbs, which was kind of awesome. I've been pumping frequently for nearly a week, and I'm not seeing much change in my supply. I look at the Medela breast milk storage kit that's still in the box, and the full bottles pictured on the box make me really sad. I don't think I'll ever pump enough to freeze and store my milk. But at least for now my baby is getting a couple breast milk bottles each day. A little is better than none!

I still feel the guilt. I feel like I've tried so hard to make BFing work, and it just isn't for us. I haven't given up -- I'm still putting him to the breast several times a day. Sometime he latches; once in a blue moon he even nurses for a few minutes. But ultimately he ends up getting a bottle of formula or breast milk. He is finally gaining weight and putting out plenty of wet/dirty diapers, and that makes me happy. And that's the thing: The guilt of FFing does not come close to the heart-wrenching guilt I felt before when I thought I was starving him. I'm starting to make my peace with the formula because my baby is finally thriving.

Hang in there. I know how hard it is to FF when we've all been told repeatedly that breast is best. Talk it over with your pedi. Know that you have support here. You're doing a good job, mama.

kleigh926

I'm formula feeding my LO this time. We did it from the beginning, no breastfeeding at all. I nursed my first for 10 months and had tons of problems. It was so stressful and hard for me emotionally. I knew I didn't want to go through it again, especially having 2u2 to care for now.

I hate the fact that moms feel guilt over not breastfeeding. What is there to feel guilty about? Formula is a perfectly healthy, safe alternative to breast milk. There are some things about BF'ing that cannot be reproduced by formula. However, there are also things about formula that BF'ing cannot always provide, especially if you are stressed out and baby is having issues. A happy mama and baby are just as, if not more, important than what feeding method you choose.

Cost varies depending on what formula you use and how much your LO drinks. That was the main thing that made me hesitate on deciding to FF, but for us, it's worth it. So far, I'm pretty much at the same spot with weight loss this time as I was last time when I was BF'ing. BF'ing does require more calories, but not everyone loses weight quickly when nursing. I had to eat like crazy to keep my supply up, and some people end up hanging onto the extra pounds because of that.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I know it's a hard decision, but my opinion is that you need to do what's best overall for your family. Whether or not that includes breast milk is up to you, but please don't feel guilty about your decision. As long as your baby is fed, you are doing great!

SaraPEwell

I know the feeling of wanting to do what's best for you and baby but feeling like you need to justify your choice to others. I am also pumping and supplementing. I had some trouble after my c section and was unable to breast feed for the first 24 hours. We struggled in the hospital after that, and had only a few successful breast feeding sessions before heading home. Unfortunately, I was only home with DS for two days before I was re admitted to the hospital. Pumping was the best option and my supply was scarce so we had to supplement. My doctors assured me that this was perfectly healthy and the method we used was to mix half breast milk and half formula in each bottle. That way baby got a little of each at every feeding.
DS is 12 days old now and if very used to being bottle fed. My husband and docs are encouraging me to try and get him back to breast feeding, but the baby hates it! Honestly, I am fine doing what we are doing. It's nice to feel like others can help with the feedings. Of course, I still need to pump regularly, but I feel like I have a little more flexibility than I would with BF. I would talk to your doctor about the options and get all your questions answered about health first. Then talk to your DH. He needs to support your decision (that's the part where I am struggling).

Ciardasully

OP, you are not alone.  I was having trouble getting my supply in.  Plus while LO could latch, it was on my nipple and painful.  I also have very large breasts and I couldn't see the latch which made BFing too hard for me.  I have been EP and so far producing enough now.  But please don't feel bad for having to EP and/or FF. The most important thing is that your LO has a full belly and is growing.

redtoes13

Hun, you're not alone. I admire your honesty as well as the wonderful support you've received on here. I supplemented with DD1 and am doing the same with DD2. I just don't have enough milk. Regarding weight loss: after 10 weeks I hadn't lost much so started a Weight Watchers. This time around I am only 4 weeks postpartum and do not want to put that pressure on myself. It was a lot of pressure last time. I wish you the best. Remember: it isn't a bad mom who uses formula; it's a bad mom who doesn't look after her baby. Oh, and sleep, especially when we're talking Depression, is of paramount importance. Do what you need to!

redtoes13

Oh and Costco formula is really reasonable.

stephanie123456

Thank you for posting this! I am also struggling with getting an adequate supply for LO and also trying to get him to latch (both nips are flat and he hates the shield and has issues getting milk when I use it). I've been feeling guilty because I want to breast feed so badly and I've seen the LC three times in the past week and a half. I also keep hearing that it gets easier so I'm not prepared to give up yet but keep strong!

Murphyer

I know everyone has said this... But you are not alone!!

I am also a FTM who has faced BF challenges. The LC in the hospital didn't teach me a proper latch which caused my nipples to be VERY damaged even before we left the hospital. On day 4, after a lot of failed feedings on the right and pain on the left, I dragged myself to a support group. I was fortunate to have an LC teach me a proper latch which has proven successful on the left. DD refused my right which has now resulted in me EPing the right and BFing the left. It is a pain in the ass right now but according to my LC will balance out shortly. While my nipples are healing thanks to proper latching and pumping, I now have thrush in both. Talk about painful!

BFing is really fucking hard. The decisions we make as mothers will include guilt and tears but in the end we must do what is right for our babies and ourselves. Sometimes that won't be 100% BFing.

I wish you all the best. For what it's worth, the support group really helped me. And not just because of the LC but also the other Moms.

JustCricket

maggrit said:

I echo others - not alone and I can understand how you feel. I EP and FF every meal. I tried to have her latch, which she did, but was too tiny to feed productively. My LO is a little under 5 lbs and I will tell u, while I still hear they strongly encourage me to keep trying to exclusively breastfeed later, but they really want me to chub her up. And that means EP/FF now. I'm nine days in and get a little under an ounce total each time I pump. Bottom line is - You need to be the best you possible for your baby! Best wishes for whatever you decide. You got this!

I'm in the same boat as above. She did great latching at first, but she was so small that she burned too much energy doing it and her latch wasn't quite as deep as it should be. So I switched over to EPing. And while right now she still has a decent latch, she's really lazy on the boob, and honestly I'm not sure I'll ever go back to ebf. I love that I can pump and hand a bottle to hubby and he can feed her while I get some rest. It's a lot of work, but so is breastfeeding. In the end it's what works best for you. I really hate that society makes us feel like we have to have a REASON as to why we're EPing or FFing. Baby is getting fed and they should just mind their own business.

formerwigirl

Hey ladies,

First of all I wanted to thank all of you for your support. An update on me is that my BF and EP journey is over. We saw the pediatrician yesterday and I explained what was going on. I asked him what we should do and he said switch completely to FF. DH and I were talking about it but then I had a doctors appointment myself to address some arm pain. The doctor there told me I was dealing with nerve pain. He said my options were limited if I was BF. I explained what happened earlier in the day and he said I needed to follow what the pediatrician said and if I wasn't BF he could give me a steroid to help with the nerve pain. I came home pretty upset but after talking it over with DH we realized the pediatrician was right and we needed to FF only. I am trying to tell myself over and over again that this is okay. I think it is going to take me a bit to deal with but I think I'll get there. Now I just have to deal with my sore breasts while my milk dries up.

Thank you all again for your support.