A WWS12D work situation

BPer

So I work for my emotional well-being, not because we rely on my paycheck (which isn't very impressive.)  I took a job at the university that I normally wouldn't consider with my education and work background as a foot in the door, because it's pretty impossible to get in here.

Well now with 2 kids in daycare, my paycheck will be a wash, and we may even be losing money on the deal. If we end up breaking even, it's NBD, but if it's costing me money to be here, it's just not worth it.

So I have been applying to other jobs within the university, and the woman in my office got wind of it, and asked me what the deal was yesterday. FWIW, most offices encourage their employees to try to advance within the university. I told her that it's an issue of pay, and she asked what daycare cost per week, and I told her.

Also, because we are a state university, the positions are either considered state, or research foundation (which is where my position falls). My same exact position on the "state line" starts at $11k higher than what I am making now as a salary, with 3% raises every year.  She didn't believe me, and sat there and googled it.  She then proceeded to tell me that the fact that anyone doing my job is paid that much "pisses her off as a taxpayer", and THAT'S the reason New York State is broke.

For the record, even with the $11k additional in salary, the position would still be the lowest paying job I have had aside from this one.

She then proceeded to tell me that if there were an extra 10k laying around for a raise, she'd be taking it.

The whole conversation was really fucking rude, and she ended up having to leave before we could finish talking.  So how the fuck do I even respond to that? The whole situation has me wanting to leave, stay home with Ben and try to keep Hannah in daycare (mostly because I think it's important for her at this point).

BeebopandBuddy

That would piss me off too. What a bitch! I would just keep applying for jobs if you want to work. Then, when you find one and leave, she can't possibly be surprised. Are you afraid she going to retaliate (sp?) or something?

BPer

BeebopandBuddy said:

That would piss me off too. What a bitch! I would just keep applying for jobs if you want to work. Then, when you find one and leave, she can't possibly be surprised. Are you afraid she going to retaliate (sp?) or something?

She just presented it like I was really ungrateful, and basically implying to everyone who knew I was applying to other positions that I wasn't happy in our office.  But how happy can you be knowing that someone doing your same job is making $11k more a year than you, as a STARTING salary.  And at this point, it doesn't look like there's going to be much room for advancement any time soon.

She's headed out of town, riding with our AVP right now, and I sent her an email to clear anything up so that she didn't present the situation in a shitty way to our boss.

I basically just said that if I'm unhappy 3 days into being back at work, it's because I just had to start leaving my baby 3 days ago, and that it's not related to our office, and that my applying to other positions is purely a financial decision.

crene84

Wow that is rude. Like other posters said, I'd keep trying for it and if you don't get something that makes it worth it, stay at home with the kids until you do find something that pays enough to be worth it. GL!

melody921

Who the hell is this woman? I never would have even told her what daycare costs bc it's none of her business what you pay or how much you and your DH want to clear after bills. I'd definitely keep applying for other jobs.

willy_gert

Aren't they doing interviews about the work environment in your office?  I would let them know just how unprofessional this woman is and may in fact be a reason you are looking for something different.

hmp1

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

BPer

melody921 said:

Who the hell is this woman? I never would have even told her what daycare costs bc it's none of her business what you pay or how much you and your DH want to clear after bills. I'd definitely keep applying for other jobs.

Oh, her daughter just got a job teaching at our daycare (fabulous, one more way this woman is involved in my life), so she could have easily found out.

I basically just told her so that she would know I wasn't just BSing about COL vs. pay.

FTR, I realize that it's no one in my office's fault that I got KU and now have 2 kids in daycare, but that's why I am applying to other jobs rather than trying to demand a raise here.

BPer

shiggybop said:

What a douche canoe! I would email her a very professional email explaining that her side of the conversation was very unprofessional and left you feeling uncomfortable and that you are not interested in discussing that topic with her again. If she writes you back and is rude or crosses a line, I would talk to a supervisor. Is this the same woman who you have had issues with before?

Yeah, she's the only other woman in our office, there's 5 of us total.  And what's funny is, her gossiping and saying she was unhappy with our office dynamic is what prompted the current HR investigation that is going on here.  They brought in an outside HR consultant and my interview with her is tomorrow.

BPer

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

I don't report to her, but she has "seniority" I suppose so she likes to act like my supervisor, though she doesn't have firing ability or anything like that.

The only reason money came up is because she's like "Well you knew the pay when you accepted the job." 

Yes I did, and since I accepted it, circumstances have changed, which is why I am applying to other jobs.

It's so strange, everyone applies to internal jobs, she's acting like I'm stabbing her in the back.

MommaP12

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This.  

I would have never given her all that ammunition such as how much daycare costs, your salary, the 11k increase, etc.  If anyone at work asks why you're applying for new roles a generic answer of "oh, personal reasons, sharpening the saw, that kind of thing" is all they need to know.   She was rude yes, but she turned bitter after hearing details.   Hopefully you get a new role and she won't be around you.

hmp1

MommaP12 said:

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This.  

I would have never given her all that ammunition such as how much daycare costs, your salary, the 11k increase, etc.  If anyone at work asks why you're applying for new roles a generic answer of "oh, personal reasons, sharpening the saw, that kind of thing" is all they need to know.   She was rude yes, but she turned bitter after hearing details.   Hopefully you get a new role and she won't be around you.

Or just a simple "just looking at my options" and letting it go. Shut down the conversation from the beginning. If your boss asks, have a professional honest conversation, but coworkers can mind their own business.

BPer

MommaP12 said:

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This.  

I would have never given her all that ammunition such as how much daycare costs, your salary, the 11k increase, etc.  If anyone at work asks why you're applying for new roles a generic answer of "oh, personal reasons, sharpening the saw, that kind of thing" is all they need to know.   She was rude yes, but she turned bitter after hearing details.   Hopefully you get a new role and she won't be around you.

Well, she knows what I make, she was on the search committee involved in hiring me.  Plus because we are a state university, all salaries are public anyway.

She ALSO applied for another position a month or so back, and was bitter that she won't be considered for most positions at the university because she doesn't have a 4 year degree.

Hyaline

hmp1 said:

MommaP12 said:

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This.  

I would have never given her all that ammunition such as how much daycare costs, your salary, the 11k increase, etc.  If anyone at work asks why you're applying for new roles a generic answer of "oh, personal reasons, sharpening the saw, that kind of thing" is all they need to know.   She was rude yes, but she turned bitter after hearing details.   Hopefully you get a new role and she won't be around you.

Or just a simple "just looking at my options" and letting it go. Shut down the conversation from the beginning. If your boss asks, have a professional honest conversation, but coworkers can mind their own business.

Absolutely.  This isn't a conversation to have with coworkers unless it's on a personal level with coworkers you have a personal relationship with.

And I never, ever let it get out that I was looking into other options at my former (university) job, except with my close friends who did not work in my department.  If anyone had suspected and asked, I would have given a vague reply like HMP suggested.

How to handle it now?  What to do?  Nothing.  Don't bring it up with her and avoid letting others bait you into a conversation.  She was rude.  You were discussing something that wasn't a good choice to discuss with coworkers.  End of story. No need to extend the drama.

Hyaline

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

Eastie156

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This. I've found out the hard way quite a few years back that talking money with anyone you work with is a bad idea, including people you think you are close with. I'd let it go and just not talk to her about it again. Keep applying for other positions if this is what you want. I'd also give it a few weeks as I'm sure being back to work from maternity leave is hard.

BPer

Hyaline said:

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

The salary discrepancy is within the university, not a comparison between my job at the university, and industry.  A woman sitting downstairs or across the hall will have a starting salary $11k higher than mine because her position is considered state, and mine research foundation.  The exact same title, exact same scope of work, exact same classification as far as HR is concerned.

And by comparison (to this woman) my education and work history should be considered.  I have a master's, and have held high ranking industry positions, whereas she has an associates in Executive Secretarial work she earned in the late 70s and has only ever worked in staff support positions.

BPer

Eastie156 said:

hmp1 said:

Don't talk money with people you work with. Golden rule. Also, she isn't your boss, just another woman in the office right? So let it go. Was she a bitch, yes. But now you know you can't talk to her about stuff like that. Keep it work related only and hopefully you won't be working with her much longer.

This. I've found out the hard way quite a few years back that talking money with anyone you work with is a bad idea, including people you think you are close with. I'd let it go and just not talk to her about it again. Keep applying for other positions if this is what you want. I'd also give it a few weeks as I'm sure being back to work from maternity leave is hard.

True.  I guess I wasn't intending to talk money with her, but she approached our discussion like "Well if you're really THAT unhappy working in this office.", which isn't the case.  It's not great, obviously, but she was coming at it as if she was taking it really personally.

Hyaline

BPer said:

Hyaline said:

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

The salary discrepancy is within the university, not a comparison between my job at the university, and industry.  A woman sitting downstairs or across the hall will have a starting salary $11k higher than mine because her position is considered state, and mine research foundation.  The exact same title, exact same scope of work, exact same classification as far as HR is concerned.

And by comparison (to this woman) my education and work history should be considered.  I have a master's, and have held high ranking industry positions, whereas she has an associates in Executive Secretarial work she earned in the late 70s and has only ever worked in staff support positions.

Ummm....she may be good or shitty at her job, and that's a different story, but this is some serious elitism.  Good for you and your masters and your high-ranking positions. I'm sure they're valuable assets. But that's no reason to assume someone who "only" has an associates and "only" has worked in staff support position is less capable than you in those positions.  That someone like that is a less valuable asset to a department.  FFS, someone like that has decades of experience.  I learned right quick that my education didn't make me superior to the people who had been working in the field for years and had a real understanding of how the place worked.  (And FWIW, I had positive working relationships with those colleagues.  Just saying.)

You brought up salary and how it's the lowest you've worked for.  I'm just agreeing that yep, that's the reality.

Edited: Clarity

BPer

@hyaline It's not elitism from my end, it's how the positions at the university are structured.

She has gone as far as she can within the university because she "only" has that degree, and that experience.

Literally, the application software will kick out her application from consideration if she answers "no" to "do you have at least a bachelor's degree?"

The 4 year degree requirement is new as of a few years ago, so she's grandfathered in, but she's pretty much advanced as far as she can, and she's bitter about it.

If she hadn't come forward saying that she applied for another position, I wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that I was also.  Though she's trying to move because she's unhappy in our office, but was somehow offended when she thought I was also.

Hyaline

BPer said:

@hyaline It's not elitism from my end, it's how the positions at the university are structured.

She has gone as far as she can within the university because she "only" has that degree, and that experience.

Literally, the application software will kick out her application from consideration if she answers "no" to "do you have at least a bachelor's degree?"

The 4 year degree requirement is new as of a few years ago, so she's grandfathered in, but she's pretty much advanced as far as she can, and she's bitter about it.

If she hadn't come forward saying that she applied for another position, I wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that I was also.  Though she's trying to move because she's unhappy in our office, but was somehow offended when she thought I was also.

OK, from a hiring end--of course it should be considered.  I was reading this that you felt you were "worth" more in the same or similar positions because of your work background...which is something I saw way too much of while working at the university and it seriously sets me off.  Because some of the people who were considered "less than" were absolutely vital and excellent at their jobs.

Of course, others sucked and did puzzles in their offices all day.  

kdsmith43

Hyaline said:

BPer said:

Hyaline said:

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

The salary discrepancy is within the university, not a comparison between my job at the university, and industry.  A woman sitting downstairs or across the hall will have a starting salary $11k higher than mine because her position is considered state, and mine research foundation.  The exact same title, exact same scope of work, exact same classification as far as HR is concerned.

And by comparison (to this woman) my education and work history should be considered.  I have a master's, and have held high ranking industry positions, whereas she has an associates in Executive Secretarial work she earned in the late 70s and has only ever worked in staff support positions.

Ummm....she may be good or shitty at her job, and that's a different story, but this is some serious elitism.  Good for you and your masters and your high-ranking positions. I'm sure they're valuable assets. But that's no reason to assume someone who "only" has an associates and "only" has worked in staff support position is less capable than you in those positions.  That someone like that is a less valuable asset to a department.  FFS, someone like that has decades of experience.  I learned right quick that my education didn't make me superior to the people who had been working in the field for years and had a real understanding of how the place worked.  (And FWIW, I had positive working relationships with those colleagues.  Just saying.)

You brought up salary and how it's the lowest you've worked for.  I'm just agreeing that yep, that's the reality.

Edited: Clarity

Also, I might add that I have ZERO college experience, and I make 10K less a year than another girl in my department that has TWO MBA's and cannot spell or structure a sentence to save her life. A college degree does not grant you the smarts.

Here's an e-mail from her sent to the whole department: "Please see below we are having problems with scan to email. Thanks sorry for the inconvenience but thanks for your patience’s. "

BPer

@kdsmith43 I have all the smarts.

melody921

kdsmith43 said:

Hyaline said:

BPer said:

Hyaline said:

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

The salary discrepancy is within the university, not a comparison between my job at the university, and industry.  A woman sitting downstairs or across the hall will have a starting salary $11k higher than mine because her position is considered state, and mine research foundation.  The exact same title, exact same scope of work, exact same classification as far as HR is concerned.

And by comparison (to this woman) my education and work history should be considered.  I have a master's, and have held high ranking industry positions, whereas she has an associates in Executive Secretarial work she earned in the late 70s and has only ever worked in staff support positions.

Ummm....she may be good or shitty at her job, and that's a different story, but this is some serious elitism.  Good for you and your masters and your high-ranking positions. I'm sure they're valuable assets. But that's no reason to assume someone who "only" has an associates and "only" has worked in staff support position is less capable than you in those positions.  That someone like that is a less valuable asset to a department.  FFS, someone like that has decades of experience.  I learned right quick that my education didn't make me superior to the people who had been working in the field for years and had a real understanding of how the place worked.  (And FWIW, I had positive working relationships with those colleagues.  Just saying.)

You brought up salary and how it's the lowest you've worked for.  I'm just agreeing that yep, that's the reality.

Edited: Clarity

Also, I might add that I have ZERO college experience, and I make 10K less a year than another girl in my department that has TWO MBA's and cannot spell or structure a sentence to save her life. A college degree does not grant you the smarts.

Here's an e-mail from her sent to the whole department: "Please see below we are having problems with scan to email. Thanks sorry for the inconvenience but thanks for your patience’s. "

This kind of shit makes me want to throw things. I cringe reading email every day.

MommaP12

melody921 said:

kdsmith43 said:

Hyaline said:

BPer said:

Hyaline said:

Side note:  You work at a university.  You will in all likelihood be paid less than a similar position in any other public or private sector.  If this isn't something you can deal with, consider looking outside the university.  Hate to be harsh, but it's kind of a shitty reality of working in the university system.  There are, of course, upsides, but if they don't outweigh the salary discrepancy, university work is not for you.

Another side note: You work at a university.  If my past experience is any indication, your education and work experience are probably not that impressive within that context when you consider that the person serving in the cafeteria has a BA and the person answering phones in the registrar's office has a master's...or they've been working there for decades.

The salary discrepancy is within the university, not a comparison between my job at the university, and industry.  A woman sitting downstairs or across the hall will have a starting salary $11k higher than mine because her position is considered state, and mine research foundation.  The exact same title, exact same scope of work, exact same classification as far as HR is concerned.

And by comparison (to this woman) my education and work history should be considered.  I have a master's, and have held high ranking industry positions, whereas she has an associates in Executive Secretarial work she earned in the late 70s and has only ever worked in staff support positions.

Ummm....she may be good or shitty at her job, and that's a different story, but this is some serious elitism.  Good for you and your masters and your high-ranking positions. I'm sure they're valuable assets. But that's no reason to assume someone who "only" has an associates and "only" has worked in staff support position is less capable than you in those positions.  That someone like that is a less valuable asset to a department.  FFS, someone like that has decades of experience.  I learned right quick that my education didn't make me superior to the people who had been working in the field for years and had a real understanding of how the place worked.  (And FWIW, I had positive working relationships with those colleagues.  Just saying.)

You brought up salary and how it's the lowest you've worked for.  I'm just agreeing that yep, that's the reality.

Edited: Clarity

Also, I might add that I have ZERO college experience, and I make 10K less a year than another girl in my department that has TWO MBA's and cannot spell or structure a sentence to save her life. A college degree does not grant you the smarts.

Here's an e-mail from her sent to the whole department: "Please see below we are having problems with scan to email. Thanks sorry for the inconvenience but thanks for your patience’s. "

This kind of shit makes me want to throw things. I cringe reading email every day.

I was looking forward to your reply to this one @Melody921!

And hey, I sure learned a lot about working for a University in this thread!  Ignore Bitter Better and hopefully you get a new gig @BPer.

eshee8198

I'm sorry, that sucks. It's tough enough coming back to work without people being miserable to you. I hope you find something wonderful, quickly.