BF'ing mamas - I need help.

saisongbird

I am trying so hard and am getting stuck. Even the nurse we have here is stuck. My friend who is a midwife is coming today to try to help me but I would love your help and perspective.

I am having a few problems. I'm going to list them and give some details.

1) flat nipples. She was latching ok but bruising me to the point where I was about to bleed and still wasn't getting enough milk. We tried a nipple shield and it worked yesterday afternoon but failed miserably last night and this morning. When she does latch it's beautiful but she is rejecting my nipple at this point.

2) low supply. I can't really get anything out when I pump. After the nipple shield success yesterday I was able to pump almost an ounce between both breasts. But now when I pump I am getting less than a quarter of an ounce between both. I don't know what else to do to increase my supply if she isn't nursing and pumping alone isn't cutting it.

3) do lactation foods work? If so, what do you recommend?

I am brokenhearted over the way my body has betrayed me in the last week, between not going into labor, not dilating, and now not making milk. I will take whatever help or advice I can get.

AriaAmante143

For me, the flat nipples thing just took time. I used a nipple shield for 4 weeks, and then slowly transitioned to the nipple, and they've "stretched out" to the point she can latch on. When I first started weaning off the shield, sometimes I'd pump for a minute or two, or just tug on my nipples a bit before latching to help her out. I know some people have had success with the shells, but I personally didn't like them.

If she's rejecting the shield, maybe it's too big or too small? I had to switch to a smaller size.

AriaAmante143

Also, I just wanted to add that I didn't think we would be able to BF at all in the beginning, and it was devastating. Our pedi recommended a LC to me, and she is single handedly the only reason I am still BFing now. She's been amazing. I highly recommend trying to find one if you haven't already.

Hang in there!

nlane0723

I can't help with the nipple issue, but my LC had me squeeze a little BM out before trying to get Harper to latch so she would be interested (she had latching issues in the beginning and this helped).

I increased my supply by pumping religiously every 2 hours and doing lots of skin to skin. It helped tremendously in the beginning.

I haven't tried any lactation specific foods or supplements, but I started eating oatmeal for breakfast almost 2 weeks ago and my supply has almost doubled. It may be worth a shot...

Breastfeeding is hard at the beginning and sometimes it just doesn't work out. (Hugs)

jfb29

Are you pumping right after she nurses? If so, you might not have much to pump due to her sucking you dry. That is when I was td to pump to try to increase my supply and I'd get maybe 1-2 tsp. when I pump not right after she nurses I get 1-1.5 oz.

I ended up having to supplement bc I'm not making enough milk. LC said I've done everything I can at this point - herbs, pumping, etc. I'll give her what I can from breast but will probably always have to supple

jennybean80

With both DS1and the twins there were worries about supply because the were all early so I didn't have much milk to start. I'm not sure if it's used in the U.S. but both times I got a prescription for motillium (domperidone), it usually for stomach issues but a side-effect is increased milk production. I only ever took a couple of doses (maybe 3x daily for 2days) and never had any other supply problems.

I haven't tried any of the non-pharm methods because for me the motillium worked so well I didn't
bother.
ETA DS1 was BFed until 1 year and the twins are currently EBF.

SassyFlats

First thing... Flat nipples! I have one flat and one normal... DD favored the "normal" side for the first couple of weeks and now my supply is noticeably lopsided even though she takes the flat side now. I think the first thing you need to work on is her latching. That alone will bump up your supply and these early days are so important for that. 

Have you tried breast shells? They actually make some specifically to help evert flat nipples! Wear them between feedings. 

I also had success pumping for a minute or so before attempting to latch. The pump draws out the nipple so baby had less work to do to get on there. 

Finally, just don't lose hope! The first couple of weeks are so hard! Even without any major problems, it's just damn HARD. But between pumping and baby, my flat nipple is much less flat now and she can take it without any breast shell or pre-pumping now. 

In regards to supply, I drink water all day long and eat two packets of oatmeal every morning. DH actually keeps my water full when he's home- don't be afraid to ask yours to help you with that. It's hard to remember to drink and eat when you're focused on breastfeeding. 

Also, comfort nursing is your friend! Yes, your nips will get chapped in the first couple of weeks. People say that's not normal but I'm convinced that in the beginning it's just that sensitive skin getting used to having a little mouth on it all the time. Slather your nipples in lanolin and nipple butter after every feed! But let your baby comfort nurse! It will tell your body there's a baby on that boob and stimulate more production. That's what I've done and we are doing better all the time now. It's difficult, emotionally and physically... especially at first!!! But hang in there because it gets easier. You're in survival mode now. Remember that!

SassyFlats

Oh, and know that worrying about supply is SO COMMON. But like FBW said, your baby is SO LITTLE right now, she doesn't need much. Just because your milk "came in" doesn't mean you'll be able to pump more than a thimble full at first. Baby doesn't NEED ounces and ounces at a time, so of course your body isn't making ounces and ounces right now! Heck, I can pump about 2 oz in 10 min from one side and HALF AN OUNCE on the other (flat nipple gimped my supply)... but my sweet girl is gaining like a champ and has plenty of wet and dirty diapers. Her pedi is thrilled with her weight-- she's spot on!

But I only get 2 oz in the timeframe she normally feeds (10 min is normal for her). So what? She's thriving. I try not to obsess over numbers because the ONLY number that matters is her steadily increasing weight. She's much better at getting milk out than my pump is... and besides... if 2 oz is working for her, why should I beat myself up over not being one of those moms that gets like freaking 6 oz per pumping session?

You supply will increase as your baby NEEDS it to. So focus on if she is thriving, not on how many ounces you pump. If she is thriving, you're doing beautifully. If she is not, then do exactly what you're doing-- reach out for help!

You are not a failure. Your body is not a failure. You're a mother and your body grew and is nourishing a beautiful little human being. That's AMAZING. And it's really fucking hard so don't knock yourself too much if it doesn't go as smoothly as people tell you it should. Kara is almost 5 weeks old (when did that happen?!) and I still struggle sometimes. But overall, it's getting SO MUCH EASIER now. Look forward to that day.

And one of my favorite things anyone has ever said about breastfeeding: Don't quit on a bad day. There will be beautiful bonding nursing sessions and there will be tear-filled heartbreakingly HARD nursing sessions. But just give yourself, your body, and your baby some time to get the hang of things. It's all brand new.

pepperedmoth

Definitely find an LC! They are the best.

I had flat nipples and I did find the nipple shield worked for me. I am now trying to wean him off it. It helps to draw out those nipples and get her latched right at first, which is the best thing for supply. Just keep trying with that shield!

Also, if you are struggling with the shield, I dunno how you've been trying to latch without it, but I always get him on with the "nipple flip" technique. This video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oXLFveF1FLA shows pretty much what I do. (Not explicit, just a cute puppet.) I do the "nipple sandwich" that she mentions and as I roll my nipple in I pretty much JAM him forward onto it. I am essentially ramming my nipple down his throat but moving HIM not moving my breast. ;-) takes three or four tries but he will eventually latch like that. He does much better after a few weeks with the shield, though!

I don't have supply problems thus far, but one thing I've heard suggested is the bed-rest cure, where you find support for the day, you strip from the waist up, strip baby to her diaper, and crawl into bed together. You cuddle skin to skin for the whole day encouraging as much nursing as possible.

I also TOTALLY AGREE with @SassyFlats‌ that comfort nursing is your friend! I tend to allow lots of comfort nursing, plus I nurse on-demand, and I am convinced that that (and luck of course) is why I haven't had supply problems.

The nice thing about the shield is that it allows lots of nursing with a minimum of chapping. I got WICKED chapped after just 24 hours not using it --- went back on it and everything healed. Now am trying to graaaaadually go off of it and hope my nipples will gently toughen as opposed to OOOOOOOOOOWWWW.

Good luck!! It's a process for sure. :-)

SassyFlats

@pepperedmoth I also nurse on-demand. Not everything is a full feeding... sometimes she just wants a "snack" for two minutes. Sometimes she wants ALL THE MILKS and nurses both sides for 10 minutes each. It's challenging to let go and not be a control freak about it! I'm a very logical person and part of me WANTS to measure and schedule.

I honestly think that's the biggest challenge now. Letting go of what *I* expect and letting Kara take the lead. And the occasional chapped left nipple because sometimes she still favors that side dammit. :P

fish8412

For me, pumping has been the most annoying/time consuming part of breastfeeding, but I promise it does get better.  I went to a LC and she helped me.  It took about 3 weeks for me to get the hang of it and now it is a routine.  Here are my suggestions.

1. Continue to pump even if you don't get any milk out.  This will tell your boobs to keep making milk.  Sometimes it takes 2-5 minutes of dry pumping before milk comes out.  

2.  Pump after every other feeding.  The more you pump, the more your supply will increase.  The LC told me after every feeding but I just couldn't do it-I need to sleep!  

3. Try making these lactation cookies.  The LC gave me this recipe and I think they taste good!  Yes, there are a ton of ingredients, but they are so easy to make.

2 cups rolled oats
1/2 cup flax meal
1.5 cups unbleached flour
1/2 cup sugar
1/4 cup brown sugar
1 Tbsp baking soda
2 Tbsp cinnamon
1/2 Tbsp nutmeg
1.5 cups chocolate chips
1.5 cups pecans
1 cup raisins
1 Tbsp salt
3/4 cup coconut oil
3 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1 can pumpkin puree
1/4 cup black strap molasses

Preheat oven to 350. Mix all dry ingredients separately and then combine. Drop a spoonful of dough onto an ungreased cookie sheet and place in oven for 12-14 minutes until mildly firm to the touch.

4.  I drink two cups a day of this red raspberry leaf tea.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009F3PP8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5.  The growth spurts will help increase your supply.  Emma is going through her 6 week growth spurt and my boobs are always feeling full, so I am pumping a lot right now!

Good luck and stick with it!  

pepperedmoth

@SassyFlats‌ the most helpful thing I did to let go was to delete my tracking app from my phone! Now I move a diaper pin back and forth between the two bra straps to keep track of which side is due next, and other than that, I haven't been tracking at all. Super relaxing. :-)

ProudMommy030614

Flat nipple just takes lots of practice and you could try to pump a little before latch to stretch the nipple a little, that's what I had to do with ds2. I drink the Mothers Milk tea and eat a bowl of oatmeal everyday and I am a freaking dairy cow! Good luck

liamandlettie

I had flat nipples with my first. I used a shield and found it too be such a PITA and wasnt helping so I wore the shells all the time to help "pop" them out. I also pumped for a few minutes before feeding to help pop them out as well. Nursing must have changed them forever because im not having that problem this time. Hope it gets better!

RDK24

Lurker here from the BF board (which has been super helpful for me). Just wanted to chime in and second the LC suggestion -- very helpful if you can see one. Beyond that, in the early weeks, your baby literally determines your supply because breastfeeding is supply and demand. So put your LO to the breast often as others have said … the skin to skin and comfort nursing will help. 

And if you end up with cracks/bleeding nipples like I did, all the remedies were only so-so until my OB told me to use Neosporin. That worked like a charm.

GL!

Pankers

I'm in the same boat. 6 weeks in, flat nipple, tongue tie and crappy supply. I second/third the LC. I tried a couple and second one works best for me. She was awesome and also has supply issues, so I knew she cared. I used the nipple shield for a few weeks but we are now off. It is by no means a perky nipple now but after she kept ripping it off in the middle of the night and me breaking down, we figured out how to feed without it. Supply......hmmmm, fenugreek, oatmeal, lactation cookies, mothers milk tea, motherslove more milk plus supplement. I'm on them all. Wondering if domperidone is my next bet.

I started a thread to share challenges etc, I'll add the link so you can read it and be reassured you are certainly not alone. Please don't give up.

https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/comment/81206812#Comment_81206812

Derek2014Leslie

I'm having all the same issues and it's horrible. I hate feeling like I can't even make enough milk to feed my baby. I've had to supplement since I left the hospital, and I pump every time he eats. But my supply is less and less everyday. I know how you feel! He larches to a shield about half of the time. And I've been to the LC a few times and am going back next week. Good luck! You're not alone in this!!

cdnmomma

Fenugreek, almonds, water all help. Hang in there! It must be so hard. Your nipple will become less flat but it takes some time. Sounds like you've got good support though which is great!!

ntdane

I used domperidone with DS1 and it worked well for me. It's not FDA approved so you have to get it from a compound pharmacy or online. In addition I've used fenugreek and oatmeal and they have also helped.

@CaseAndDave‌, Left Hand Milk Stout is one of my favorites .

saisongbird

So, scratch a lot of this. First things first - the baby nurse needs to GO. I think we need a post partum doula. My friend Karen (@FarmBoysWife, great minds...) is a midwife/former doula and has been here since I posted this. Apparently, no flat nips, I'm letting down and letting down so fast that this is the pain I have been having. She just nursed beautifully, twice, and we had over an hour of skin to skin for the first time and she is a week old. Karen also discusses so many of the issues I have disagreed with the baby nurse on, and I think they're going to have the discussion of changing help tonight.

I haven't seen the nurse since 1pm and I am more at peace than I have been since she got here. Time for a change.

SassyFlats

Good support is so important! Sounds like a change is exactly what you need!

StephBrim24

@SassyFlats‌ and I had similar problems but I have a full-on inverted nipple. The breast shell has been perfect for me. DS didn't like the nipple shield and didn't get as much milk through it, so I had to try something else. The pump and your LO will pull it out in time and the shell will keep it out.

StephBrim24

Ah, just saw your update haha - so scratch my previous post. Yay for improved feeding!! And yeah, let down sucks.

WoodShopGirl

Ok, I didn't read all the responses, but I had a flat nipple on one side and my LC gave me a latch assist. It is basically a suction cup thing that pulls your nipple out and then you put LO to the breast. I used it for the first 2 1/2 weeks or so and now my nipple has stretched out so we don't need it. Worth the $10 it cost me.

Edited to say hang in there. I hated BF for the first 3 weeks or so and only for the past few days feel like A and I are getting the hang of it. It takes time, but I defiantely think we have turned a corner.

ufsandra85

mothers love more milk was recommended my my lc and has worked for me

Ahutch428

@pepperedmoth‌ thanks for posting the video link. My LC worked with me on this, but I was still struggling, so seeing it again is helpful. I don't have flat nipples, but I think I'm going to try a shield to help with the pain. She is clamping down really hard and leaving a ridge. Does a certain type work better with doing the nipple flip?

pepperedmoth

@Ahutch428‌ I don't think you can do the flip WITH the shield unfortunately. My LO leaves that ridge too and I'm going to ask the LC about it when I see her again on Saturday....the shield definitely prevents that! I just try to get at least one good feed in without the shield a day......

Ahutch428

Thanks. I'll try the shield and see if that helps, and not I will keep working on the flip. You would think something so natural wouldn't be so hard! My LC also said she thinks I have Raynauds syndrome, where the cold makes it more painful, so that's fun!

saisongbird

@Ahutch428‌ - tell me more about Raynauds?

Pankers

Oh god @Ahutch428‌ , I have this too. I find rubbing lanolin on after helps get the circulation back. I also turned my pump down a little and that helped.