btdt moms: did you sleep train?

kwrecks

I'm wondering, for those of you that have had bad sleepers, did you end up doing any kind of sleep training or did sleep just kind of get worked out on its own? I'm wondering if I should try to do some sort of sleep training with E , or if it will just all get figured out on its own.

Rowcate

I did not with DD. She is an awesome sleeper now but didn't sleep through the night until about a year and a half. She was far more consistent then lil guy though.

She was a solid napper. She was down every night from 9pm-9:30 (up every 3 hours to feed but right back down). I thought she was bad, little did I know..... Do what you got to do.

Cocolamo1

DS1: We co-slept/ bed shared until he was 7-8 months old. He started sleeping through the night when he was 10 months, but always woke up early and not happy! We also had him nap in his car seat until he was too big- like over a year. I tried CIO once, it broke my heart and I never did it again. Aside from somewhere around 2, he has been a great sleeper/napper.

DD2: Never shared a bed. Put her down awake/drowsy very young. Moved to her own room around 4 months. Used sleep lady sleep shuffle around 8 months... Spent many many nights in the hall. She was always a good napper. Slept through the night at 10 months, always sleeps in- sometimes until 9.

LO... Totally given up on over thinking it! I try putting him down in his crib at bedtime, but don't stress too much. I hold him until I go to bed many nights. We bed share- he nurses some during the night.

It's just different with each one! Sleep training may work for you and it may not. My advice is to be consistent and know that no matter what you do, LO will sleep eventually.

MommyKristin88

Nope. My daughter woke up every 2 hours from birth until 3 years old. It eventually stopped on its own.

BelhurstBride

Closest we got was the NCSS when DD1 was around 15 months old. It helped until her molars came in. At that point we gave up and figured she'd work it out when she was good and ready. 

She was just around 3 years old when she started STTN with any regularity. 

I was convinced she was going to be an only child. 

LJUTCMommy

I am glad you posted this @kwrecks‌. I have been wondering the same.

I have switched up DDs routine and moved her into the crib. Bed sharing and sleeping in the PNP in our room were not working anymore.

This is night 2 in the crib. I'm in the nursery with her, but on the couch.

I am giving this new scenario a week, then I am probably going to try the NCSS, if there's no improvement.

I don't expect her to STTN. My goal is 1-3 feedings/wakings and 30 min or less to go down for the night. BTDTs, do you think this is realistic?

Emeraldeyed315

good post! We are in a similar position. We have been cosleeping/bedsharing. We are transitioning to crib at night now. Shes been doing well with naps in the crib during the day. She wakes up every 2 hours while bedsharing. I'm hoping the crib helps her sleep longer...we'll see.

laabeja

Yup. We did modified Ferber with check-ins at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 minutes, the switch to 5, 10, 15 minutes. I did have to stop nursing to sleep for the week but was able to go back to it once he was "trained." We discovered we had to be extremely consistent - bedtime, naps and middle of the night wake ups. I did nurse when he woke up once in the middle of the night but that lasted maybe another week before he slept completely through the night. We also unswaddled and took away the pacifier at the same time. We tried this once at 6 months but he was clearly not ready and then again at 7/8 months when it worked. Kid has slept through the night ever since. We started sleep training this LO, but she had a bad cold and training with other stuff going on (like a sickness or teething) doesn't work well because they are especially in need of your comfort and wake up way more often than usual and have a harder time falling asleep usually too. But, before she had the cold, she was down to less than 5 minutes to put herself to sleep so I'm hopeful she'll do well when we try again in a few days.

BelhurstBride

@LJUTCmommy, it really depends on LO. As long as you don't let yourself get too frustrated and are willing to admit defeat then it may be reasonable. IMHO. 

Kebert618

After getting up with Layla 7+ times a night to comfort nurse back to sleep, we let her fuss it out at 6 months. She fussed off/on for 20 min (never a hard cry!) and it's amazing how quickly she learned. It seriously took one night. If she wakes in the MOTN, I listen for a fuss or a cry. If she's crying, I go in. If its a fuss, shes back to sleep qithin 5 min. Her bed time routine of bath, massage, book, boob takes 45 min...compared to 2 hrs (nursing/rocking!) it took prior to sleep training. She's asleep at 7 pm and wakes for the day about 7:30/8. I usually get up to feed her about 4-5 am...then she's back down for a few hours. Prior to sleep training, she refused her crib! Now she loves it....and she naps great now (most days!). She also wakes up so happy every morning...where before she woke up grouchy and still tired....probably because she was up 7+ times a night. I strongly believe this was the best decision for our family...but you need to do what's right for you. Like I said I still get up with her 1x a night (occasionally 2)...but it's a lot better than 7! Good luck!

PrimRoseMama

We tried but all attempts with DD failed. The only thing that works is bed sharing.

Emeraldeyed315

If we let G fuss, it turns into a heavy cry...so for us we have to catch it right away. Whether we pat her back or give her back or paci.

NewQueen

CIO is on my list of "Things I Said I'd Never Do But Did". DS was co-sleeping so I was going to bed with him at 8pm and staying in bed with him until 8am. He'd wake every 2 hours and I'd nurse him back to sleep. The routine got old fast. I wasn't happy spending so much time in bed and DS would wake and eat for less then 5 minutes. After talking things out with one of my mommy support groups, it was suggested I hold him and allow him to cry rather than feed him. I tried it that night and, to my shock, he cried for about the same 5 minutes he would eat then fell back to sleep for 4 hours! I picked up the Farber book and read through what he had to say. I didn't agree with all of it but decided to try out a modified method I was confortable with. Fast forward to today, DS sleeps much better! He's still not sleeping through the night but he sleeps in his crib now and wakes once, sometimes twice a night. His naps are also much better now. Sleep training worked for us but we took it slow and only did what we were comfortable with.

BelhurstBride

Emeraldeyed315 said:

If we let G fuss, it turns into a heavy cry...so for us we have to catch it right away. Whether we pat her back or give her back or paci.

This is both of my girls. 

I can't wrap my head around CIO at this age. How do you know LO isn't cutting a tooth? Or working on a mental leap? Or a physical one?

DD2 just started getting up once, sometimes twice a night after months of being up every 1.5-2 hours. The charge started literally the same day she cut her first tooth. She was up because she was in pain and needed my comfort. 

LJR 84

Neither of my older two kids STTN until they were 1+. 

DD1- Slept in our room in the RnP until about 7 months. We transitioned her to her crib and typically got up once a night for a feeding until she was one or so.

DS- Ahhh. I co-slept with him...NOT by choice, but desperation for sleep! haha. When he turned one and I stopped nursing, I had no choice but to let him "fuss it out" a bit for bed time in his crib. If he woke during the night I'd always nurse him, but soon after I transitioned him to his crib and weaned from nursing he started STTN.

DD2- We are struggling. She sttn from about 5 weeks-7 months. The past month we've had some major regression. She has been sleeping in our room in the RnP, but she's clearly outgrown it so we've been making the transition to her crib. I was SO spoiled by her excellent sleeping early on. Thankfully I recognized how lucky I was having lived through two crappy sleepers! lol. She now will get up 1-2x a night, depending. I really don't mind much if she goes right back to sleep after eating. The difficult nights are those where she wants up stay up and "party" for 2 or 3 hours. YAWN.

I agree that each child is so different. I personally never felt comfortable "sleep training" prior to around one year old. I'm okay with letting my little ones fuss a little bit, but I can't handle a full blown cry. 

kwrecks

Generally, when E wakes up, she starts crying.  It's usually not just a fuss, it's a cry and she starts rolling all over and she isn't awake enough/doesn't know how to find her paci and put it back in, so I have to go in.  A lot of times that's enough for about 45 seconds and she's crying again, so I go in and rock her back to sleep, and then I can't put her down because she wakes up every time I set her down, and I end up sleeping in the rocker in her room.  She eats twice a night, once at midnight and again between 4 and 5am.  I don't mind getting up to feed her.  It's the nights that she wakes up numerous times and won't let me put her back down, so I spend 2-4 hours in her room, either continuously trying to put her down in her crib, or just giving up and holding her and trying to sleep in the chair with her in my arms.  That, on top of the fact that I can't get her to sleep any longer than 20 minutes for naps in her crib, I just wasn't sure if I am being dumb for not doing some sort of sleep training with her.  I'd rather her just grow out of it, but I don't want to continue doing what I'm doing and have her never figure out how to sleep well and on her own.

BelhurstBride

@kwrecks, DD1 figured it out on her own. She's still.... particular about a lot of things and she's still a sparkler in many ways, but I can assure you that she figured out how to sleep when she was good and ready. That just happened to be way later than I ever anticipated. Bed sharing was our survival mechanism for the first year-year and a half and she still woke every couple of hours, but at least I just had to whip it out instead of getting up. 

And now I'm eating my words about Dd2 sleeping. She's been up twice already. Probably another tooth 

coraggiosa

kwrecks said:

Generally, when E wakes up, she starts crying.  It's usually not just a fuss, it's a cry and she starts rolling all over and she isn't awake enough/doesn't know how to find her paci and put it back in, so I have to go in.  A lot of times that's enough for about 45 seconds and she's crying again, so I go in and rock her back to sleep, and then I can't put her down because she wakes up every time I set her down, and I end up sleeping in the rocker in her room.  She eats twice a night, once at midnight and again between 4 and 5am.  I don't mind getting up to feed her.  It's the nights that she wakes up numerous times and won't let me put her back down, so I spend 2-4 hours in her room, either continuously trying to put her down in her crib, or just giving up and holding her and trying to sleep in the chair with her in my arms.  That, on top of the fact that I can't get her to sleep any longer than 20 minutes for naps in her crib, I just wasn't sure if I am being dumb for not doing some sort of sleep training with her.  I'd rather her just grow out of it, but I don't want to continue doing what I'm doing and have her never figure out how to sleep well and on her own.

I would consider co-sleeping rather than sleeping in the rocker. I'd be too scared I would drop her! 

When she fusses and has a hard time being put back in the crib, have you tried nursing her? I never thought it would be possible that DD would eat so much in the MOTN, but she does. Just a thought.

As for figuring out how to sleep on her own, while I'm on my first, I'm sure she will get the hang of it eventually. As the mother of my own really poor sleeper, I just tell myself that it won't last forever and that she won't wake up needing me forever. 

BlueJewelM

I hate the phrase "sleep train" because I think people automatically think of CIO. The idea of leaving a baby to cry until they pass out is too harsh. I can't bear the thought of that. Just not right for me.

Yes I have "sleep trained" both boys in a sense. We bed shared until 5 months and then transitioned to crib. I never was able to put them down drowsy but awake...I rocked them to sleep, it worked for us and hasn't had any long term effects in DS1. When they wake up at night, I gradually increase the time I go to get them. The first month in the crib I rushed to their room when they woke up. Then at 6 months I would wait 3 min minutes to get them, 7 months I'd wait 5 or 6 minutes. At 9 months I will wait 10 minutes to get him.

If they get to FULL BLOWN cry I rush in there no matter how little time has passed.

I guess I prefer my "method" because the end result is everyone is happy. I get to soothe my baby, they don't fall asleep crying, and in the meantime I hope they are "learning" some soothing skills. I don't have a problem letting them fuss for a bit when they wake up at night. 65% of the time they would cry a little (a standard fuss/cry, not the snotty, gasping for air cry!) and then go back to sleep.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I'm not looking at it as a "fix" just a gradual improvement. I'm still up at least once a night 4 out of 7 nights. With the random night (like last night) when I was up until 1130p and up again from 3 am to 5 am rocking and singing.

I'm so sorry things have been so rough for you. Hopefully more sleep is in your future!

kwrecks

Anyone ever use the "wake to sleep" method?  Basically, if you have a habitual waker, where the baby is waking often more due to habit anymore, instead of because they need anything.  The wake to sleep method says that if you know when your baby will wake up, and it's not to eat (like E, wakes up almost exactly 20 minutes after I put her down for her morning nap every day), that you should gently wake her about 10 minutes before that, to basically restart their sleep cycle so they will sleep longer.  Just wondering if anyone has tried this before.

kwrecks

KatieS7 said:

@kwrecks I did try the wake to sleep method with DD1. Let's just say I won't ever try it again. It was a huge fail. I spent way too much energy stressing about it and it didn't work.

Good to know. it seemed like it wouldn't work well but DH Really wants to try it.

carrotcake06

The big one is an awful sleeper, always was and still is. He has never STTN with any kind of regularity whatsoever. It was, and still is, exhausting. We tried everything, even CIO at one point, and it did improve things a bit. But he would regress inevitably and everything would go to shit. When he got old enough to understand us and even now, we have to be firm when talking about bedtime. H still lays with him to fall asleep. He wakes up whining for one of us MOTN more often than not and escalates until we go in and tell him to go back to sleep. I don't think he's ever once slept 12 straight hours. He's a 830-630 kind of kid.

The babies are different, but of course with him being the oldest I didn't have anything to compare it to and thought I was doing something wrong. He will just do what he wants to do - he's that kind of kid. Strong-willed sparkler to the extreme.

So I guess I'm saying that some kids respond well to "sleeping suggestions" (as a gentler term than "sleep training") and some kids do not. I know that my big one is def in the minority and that most kids are receptive to it, but that if it doesn't feel right or isn't getting good results, it just might not be the right time or might not be effective for your kid.

I'll be honest. The big ones lack of sleeping did a number on me and our marriage. It is one of the main reasons I didn't want to TTC any earlier than we did. Ultimately, we'll make it out on the other side, but long term sleep deprivation is really rough. Perhaps others are better people and better equipped, but it was and still is a struggle.

kwrecks

carrotcake06 said:

The big one is an awful sleeper, always was and still is. He has never STTN with any kind of regularity whatsoever. It was, and still is, exhausting. We tried everything, even CIO at one point, and it did improve things a bit. But he would regress inevitably and everything would go to shit. When he got old enough to understand us and even now, we have to be firm when talking about bedtime. H still lays with him to fall asleep. He wakes up whining for one of us MOTN more often than not and escalates until we go in and tell him to go back to sleep. I don't think he's ever once slept 12 straight hours. He's a 830-630 kind of kid. The babies are different, but of course with him being the oldest I didn't have anything to compare it to and thought I was doing something wrong. He will just do what he wants to do - he's that kind of kid. Strong-willed sparkler to the extreme. So I guess I'm saying that some kids respond well to "sleeping suggestions" (as a gentler term than "sleep training") and some kids do not. I know that my big one is def in the minority and that most kids are receptive to it, but that if it doesn't feel right or isn't getting good results, it just might not be the right time or might not be effective for your kid. I'll be honest. The big ones lack of sleeping did a number on me and our marriage. It is one of the main reasons I didn't want to TTC any earlier than we did. Ultimately, we'll make it out on the other side, but long term sleep deprivation is really rough. Perhaps others are better people and better equipped, but it was and still is a struggle.

This is my biggest worry about E and her sleep issues.  We've been dealing with really shitty sleep for almost 4 months now.  It goes in waves, sometimes it's REALLY shitty, other times it's just regular shitty, but it's never great.  It's already put a strain on our relationship, just because we are both so tired.  I think we both wouldn't mind TTC again, but the thought of having 2 babies who don't sleep, to us, means that we both get zero sleep and that's not okay. 

BelhurstBride

I agree that the lack of sleeping was a strain on everything. Not only did DD1 not sleep, but she needed to be held (worn) all day, too. I was so touched out I wanted nothing to do with DH. DD2 was not planned. I was one and done. I never wanted to go through the infant stage ever again.

I know a lot of what I post makes me sound like a laid back parent but I really wasn't in the beginning. I am not exaggerating when I say I have read every single sleep book on the market. Even the CIO ones. Honestly, realizing I had zero control over the situation and had to just learn to deal was the best thing for all of us- and it took me a solid 15+ months to do that. Learning to accept our new life for what it was and roll with the punches has been the best thing for all of us. I needed to realize that DD1 was her own person with a game plan on how she was going to do things, regardless of how I felt things should be done. (sleeping, eating, pottying, all of it. She needed to be in control.) I needed to learn to trust her. 

DD1 still isn't much of a sleeper. Like @carrotcake06 's little guy she still doesn't sleep much, but that's what works for her. (DH isn't much of a sleeper, either) This winter we went through a wakeful phase where she was up every night and in bed with us; it lasted for over a month. DH lays with DD1 at bedtime- there's no sticking her in her bed and walking away- but he can leave the room while she's still awake. He's grown to love that alone time cuddling with her and we both know these days won't last forever. She already tells me my snuggles are too tight. This time around I thank God when I get extra middle of the night snuggles with DD2. 

carrotcake06

@BelhurstBride‌ sounds we like we have very similar kiddos. The big one needs to do things on his terms - he needs limits and consistency, but there's no "forcing" him to do something he isn't ready or willing to do.

I'll admit I still have a hard time with it, but he is such an independent and confident little person so I must be doing something right

magdalina.h

We did when we moved him to his own room at a year. We followed E.A.S.Y well actually we did A.E.S.Y. We don't have to do much because he's a good sleeper, but we wanted some type of routine. Right now we are also loosely following AESY with Alexis.

ScarletOflaherty

My ex pushed me really hard to do the CIO thing with my oldest, and we did and it worked, but I felt horrible about it, and always swore after that I'd never do it again. It just went too much against what I felt was right, ya know?

With #2 and #3, I didn't do any sort of sleep training, just rocked and nursed them to sleep, and eventually they started STTN on their own. I think #2 was around 10 months, #3 around 14 months. 

With #4 it's not even a question, he will, like his older brothers, start to sleep through when he is good and ready. Some nights are better than others, depending on teething, how much he's eaten and how much he's played. We'll get there, and like a pp said, just accept it and learning to roll with it is the best thing you can possibly do. 

I can say from experience the whole 'they'll never learn to sooth themselves if you don't sleep train' is a load of hooey if there ever was. Loads of people nurse/rock their babies to sleep, and NONE of them go off to college with their kids to continue that. They ALL outgrow it eventually. I just believe in letting them figure out when they are ready rather than trying to force it on them.

CourtJack

I think maybe try getting rid of the pacifier as a first step? If you're up for that. And just at night - leave naps the same. Eliminating the need to have that to put herself to sleep should improve her sleep. This is what we did with Piper and it worked amazingly well. She still uses it for naps, but night are paci-free. I'd also recommend reading Ferber's book - even to just give yourself additional info on baby sleep patterns, milestones, common Mproblems, etc. It's a good resource even if you don't want to use his methods. G/L!!!!

kwrecks

@CourtJack how did you wean her from it just at night time?  And how long did it take?  I actually think that may be a great idea, but I'm not sure I want to get rid of it completely. 

CourtJack

Heyo! Ok. So I weaned her by making sure I had lots of other sleep cues in use: white noise, dark room, twilight turtle, a consistent, regular, no exceptions bed time routine and a me-scented lovey as a substitute for the soother. Oh, and a video monitor. The time for bed may have varied by 10-20 mins, but never more than that - especially while actively weaning. I took my time with bedtime routine so she could slowly start to associate the steps with going to bed. There was fussing, some crying, but the paci was gone and hasnt come back at night since. She sleeps very well now, whereas with the paci she was getting up every 2 hours, sometimes less than that. PM me if you want to chat about it more

That.Just.Happened

I didn't read the replies, but I honestly think that only maybe 1 in 100 kids will sort their sleep out on their own. You really do have to teach them how to do it.  I have a huge group of friends with kids (the year my oldest was born, we had 27 other babies born that same year, and this year when DD2 was born we have had another 19 born).  Out of ALL those kids, I only know 2 people who did not end up sleep training.  One was the random kid who figured it out on her own. The other was mortally opposed to sleep training and her kid, at almost 4 years old, still doesn't sleep well.

We sleep trained DD1 at 8 months and I really wish we had done it sooner.  We sleep trained DD2 at 5.5 months, and it took a grand total of 2 days. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about sleep training is that it means CIO. It certainly *can* mean that, but I (and most of my friends) used Ferber's method and that most definitely does NOT mean CIO.  Yes, there can be some crying involved, if you are comfortable with it.  But he offers plenty of solutions and advice if you aren't, including ways to do it even if you co-sleep.  It just takes longer. 

At the end of the day, sleep training is all about teaching them how to fall asleep without any sleep props (that you don't want them to have).  So, for example, we stopped with the nursing to sleep, pacifiers, and sleeping in our room when we did it. But I kept the sound machine/white noise because I am ok with her having that "sleep prop" for as long as she needs it since it doesn't affect my sleep. 

Anyway, all that is to say that I am a huge proponent of sleep training, but you need to understand that it doesn't have to mean CIO, and I also really believe it is necessary because they can't figure it out on their own.  But if you want to do it, PLEASE actually read the Ferber book, don't just google it or ask questions online.  You need to know the science behind it and hear all the various scenarios and advice he has for different issues based on what you are comfortable with.

Good luck!

That.Just.Happened

Oh, and I forgot to mention....both mine went from waking/eating every 2 hours to STTN for 11-13 hours once we sleep trained. DD1 now goes to bed at 7:30/8 and wakes around 7:30/8 in the morning. DD2 goes to bed at 7pm and is up between 6&7am. With both kids it took 2 nights, with minimal tears.  It was really more just fussing and never ever did they get to serious, full-on crying. 

That.Just.Happened

I'mm now going back and reading responses and y'all's replies that your kids didn't STTN until 10, 14, 18+ months are killing me.  I have no idea how you did it. I seriously would have lost my mind and probably my marriage. 

janneann1127

We did not do any real formal sleep
training. With my first, he started sleeping through the night at 6 months and was pretty much a rock solid sleeper after that.

This one has taken a little longer to get on the sleep train. At 8 months, he is still waking up to eat once every few nights. The other nights he will go 11-12 hours straight so I can't really complain. A couple weeks ago, we stopped feeding him to sleep cold turkey. He actually went down easier that way. Previously, we were feeding him to sleep and then laying him down. It wasn't a great method cause half the time he'd wake up and cry, and burping was always an issue.

I think your question more applies to poor sleepers though. We haven't had to do it, but I wouldn't hesitate to sleep train if I had a bad sleeper.

kanned0121

kwrecks said:

Anyone ever use the "wake to sleep" method?  Basically, if you have a habitual waker, where the baby is waking often more due to habit anymore, instead of because they need anything.  The wake to sleep method says that if you know when your baby will wake up, and it's not to eat (like E, wakes up almost exactly 20 minutes after I put her down for her morning nap every day), that you should gently wake her about 10 minutes before that, to basically restart their sleep cycle so they will sleep longer.  Just wondering if anyone has tried this before.

My sis in law did it, I think. And her baby slept pretty good. Its just hard since every baby is so different.