I don't like Scandal. I actually hate it based on ppl's obsession with it. It's like Harry potter. I'd like to see how far I can go without watching. The longer I go the more shocking it is to ppl.
You are missing out! It is a really good show. I tried the same thing then I watched an episode after Grey's Anatomy last season and got hooked.
Meh. I tend to watch scifi or comedy. Or SVU. never seen grey's either.
I don't get or buy into dream feeding. I haven't looked into any of the research or studies, but feeding a baby when its not hungry flies in the face of all the counseling i do down the road re: healthy eating habits and childhood obesity.
My UO is that my least favorite part of the bible says, "Thou shalt not make baked goods for the gays."
It's not the fact of making baked goods, it was the fact that it was for a wedding. The business owners religious beliefs were against gay marriage which would entail them being against provided that said service for them.
So does said business person not serve birthday cakes to single parents or weddign cakes to people moving onto their second marriage? To @MarBee1214's point priests and religious figures don't pick and choose (at least they should't) when they enforce their doctrine. However I highly doubt the store owners are telling people that break the religious codes in ALL areas that they can't be served. If a person wants to blame their discrimination on their religion then they need to play ball in all areas and not pick and choose who (or is it whom?) they don't serve.
Edit: Made slight change to the first sentence. Made it more clear.
@mindybadger1 I don't get or buy into dream feeding. I haven't looked into any of the research or studies, but feeding a baby when its not hungry flies in the face of all the counseling i do down the road re: healthy eating habits and childhood obesity.
When I need Sleep, I say that is what DH is for.
I have to disagree. When we did sleep training with DS1 at 8 months, I did three dream feeds overnight to prevent the 10+ night wake ups for eating/comfort nursing. Weaned the dream feeds over 4 months, but it helped tremendously.
I have to say I agree that the business owner should not care if their customer is gay, it's just not their place, especially after serving the couple previously. It was ok to take their money when they were buying Danishes and coffee and snuggling in the bakery bug not ok to drop five hundred on a cake to be served at another location.
I'm all for people having a right to practice their religious beliefs... But the part that gets me is that this law would've been the perfect opportunity for people to use said "religious beliefs" to turn away people because they just didn't like one certain aspect of their lifestyle. Like everyone was saying, this law would've been used to target mostly gay couples. It's the whole "pick and choose" crap that bothers the hell out of me. You see all these people against gay marriage and speaking out saying the Bible says its bad.... But do you see the same response to people who are divorced...people who have sex out of wedlock? All of these things are also wrong according to the Bible, but I sure don't see or hear very many business owners turning away those people. If your going to use the whole "religious beliefs" argument, then it's all or nothing.. You're not allowed to turn away the gay couple because the bible says it's wrong, but then make a cake for the lady who cheated on her first 3 husbands and is now marrying another man. You can't pick and choose because when you do, it's at that point it becomes discrimination rather then just "religious beliefs".
I completely agree with all of this. If someone were to turn a gay couple away then they should turn away a couple that, for example, has a child out of wedlock because if means they had premarital sex. With that said though, I don't think people should use their sexual preference or anything for that matter to sue a business owner.
I can understand your point about the lawsuit. I did not read about that case so I so not know the particulars. (For example, if they are suing for an exorbitant amount of money). I hate frivolous lawsuits. If the lawsuit is moreso based on principle rather than money, I can get behind it.
If I was a business owner, I simply cannot see how discriminating against a portion of your customer base is ever a wise decision. If I lived in the area, I would not frequent that bakery if I knew they denied baking a gay couple their wedding cake.
Aside from the potential imagined long term consequences, id be afraid of creating a monster that cries every time it's a little hungry versus ready to eat a complete "meal".
And furthermore (not directed at you) don't even mention dreamfeeds if you're concerned about reflux/spitting up/meds. Drives me nuts.
@mindybadger1
I don't get or buy into dream feeding. I haven't looked into any of the research or studies, but feeding a baby when its not hungry flies in the face of all the counseling i do down the road re: healthy eating habits and childhood obesity.
When I need Sleep, I say that is what DH is for.
I have to disagree. When we did sleep training with DS1 at 8 months, I did three dream feeds overnight to prevent the 10+ night wake ups for eating/comfort nursing. Weaned the dream feeds over 4 months, but it helped tremendously.
Edit: on mobile, quoting fail
Eh. I dream fed E1 and she's a string bean. H was deployed so there was no "Oh H can do MOTN feedings, I need sleep." And now, H doesn't lactate so...
I'm pretty sure that this couple may have not patronized this bakery if they knew the owners did not approve of them. And I'm sure the owners knew they were gay before the wedding request. Business owners are entitled those eve whoever they want, and honestly a lil disclosure would make the law unneccessary. I have a craft company. I make products that reflect beliefs other than mine. But I have stated I will not make anything I deem offensive. So if a company had a problem with a "lifestyle" say so and I'll go but my muffins somewhere else.
Everyone should be able to drive a standard transmission.
***
stuck in quote box! I agree. My parents grew up in South Africa and everyone there had to do their driving test in a standard, regardless of whether they would be driving a standard once they had their license or not. Not sure if that's still the rule (I've lived in Canada since I was 2) but I think it's a good one
Everyone should be able to drive a standard transmission.
As someone who cannot do this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Everyone drives standard cars in UK and Europe.
I bought my car and didn't know how to drive it! My exSIL taught me.
If I did not have to drive around here with kids, I would have tried learning how to drive standard, but with all the hills, city stop and go traffic, plus having my babies in the car...it was safer to buy an automatic.
I had to teach my sister before she went to Beligum (she was a live-in nanny).
FFTC: My best friend tried teaching me over a three month period in high school and I completely sucked at driving standard. We would go to an empty church parking lot almost everyday after school...I just could not get the hang of the clutch and gear shift.
I always wanted to learn how to drive one. My brothers shared one in high school and they always said they would teach me but never did. The most I ever did was change gears from the passenger seat on back roads while my dad drove and he told me what gear to put it in.
BFP #1 (7/13/12) MC (8/14) 9 weeks. D & C 8/17. BFP #2 (5/18/13) due 1/26/14. Grow baby grow! Its a surprise! Team green!
@mindybadger1
It was actually the opposite. We did sleep training to diminish the night time wake ups. DS1 learned to self soothe and didn't wake up to comfort nurse. The dream feeds were to make sure he wasn't missing any nutrition. He's in the 10th percentile for height and weight, so yeah, dream feeds worked for us.
Eh. I dream fed E1 and she's a string bean. H was deployed so there was no "Oh H can do MOTN feedings, I need sleep." And now, H doesn't lactate so...
Obviously that's a special circumstance.
Most consequences of poor eating habits don't show themselves until early adulthood.
I'm EBF. Sometimes I'm sleep deprived. I try to have a bottle in the fridge ready to go. And pumping sucks, but for me is easier than feedinf, burping, changing, putting back to bed.
Just because DH doesnt lactate doesnt mean he can't help. That's bs.
Eh. I dream fed E1 and she's a string bean. H was deployed so there was no "Oh H can do MOTN feedings, I need sleep." And now, H doesn't lactate so...
Obviously that's a special circumstance.
Most consequences of poor eating habits don't show themselves until early adulthood.
I'm EBF. Sometimes I'm sleep deprived. I try to have a bottle in the fridge ready to go. And pumping sucks, but for me is easier than feedinf, burping, changing, putting back to bed.
Just because DH doesnt lactate doesnt mean he can't help. That's bs.
edit- quoting fail
Oh he helps! Just not with feedings. He is the one that holds her in the recliner in between feedings when she's fussy so I can sleep.
Eh. I dream fed E1 and she's a string bean. H was deployed so there was no "Oh H can do MOTN feedings, I need sleep." And now, H doesn't lactate so...
Obviously that's a special circumstance.
Most consequences of poor eating habits don't show themselves until early adulthood.
I'm EBF. Sometimes I'm sleep deprived. I try to have a bottle in the fridge ready to go. And pumping sucks, but for me is easier than feedinf, burping, changing, putting back to bed.
Just because DH doesnt lactate doesnt mean he can't help. That's bs.
edit- quoting fail
Oh he helps! Just not with feedings. He is the one that holds her in the recliner in between feedings when she's fussy so I can sleep.
Devil's advocate (I am the cat and gay lover): How come you haven't tried dream feedings this time around?
Interesting UOs today. I'd like to point out that sexual orientation is not something a business owner has the right to inquire about if he is providing a service to a client (I believe) or it could be construed as harassment. Passing a law that allows for what is essentially selective discrimination assumes that a business would be entitled to ask such questions of ALL patrons. That would be akin to me giving someone the right to ask me how many times I had sex before I was married - no effing way!
Ok I may be adding kindling to the fire and know this.
I agree, I am against frivolous lawsuits. Sorry I am mobile so if I quote the walls of texts it may be confusing.
I think, who cares if a business wants to turn ppl away. It's their choice they own the business. If they want to hurt their business its their choice. I am sure that bakery lost a lot of business and they should because sexual orientation is a stupid reason to discriminate. But I still think it should be a right since they own the business.
I have nothing against gays and have some gay friends and therefore if I owned a business would never turn anyone away. Money is money. The more ppl u refuse the more u hurt your business and sooner than later you probably won't have said business. Like I said if that bakery wants to hurt or potentially ruin their business. Let them do it. I am sure there are plenty of businesses that would be happy to provide the couple service.
BFP #1 (7/13/12) MC (8/14) 9 weeks. D & C 8/17. BFP #2 (5/18/13) due 1/26/14. Grow baby grow! Its a surprise! Team green!
I love reptiles. That's an UO in some circles, not necessarily in others. I have four lizards and I've worked at PetSmart for almost six years so I am an "expert" on the care of most reptiles. I think they are fascinating and beautiful. I have just as much of a bond with my bearded dragon as I do with my dog or cats. I've had him for six years, he knows me, and enjoys interacting with me. People who are grossed out by reptiles annoy me.
I also love herps! In my previous classroom I had 5 bearded dragons, 4 snakes, a turtle, frogs, toads, a skink, leopard geckos, a hamster (a mammal, but still), and at various times also hermit crabs, tarantulas, and scorpions. It always bothers me when people are violently opposed to reptiles. It's fine if you don't want to touch them yourself, but there's nothing inherently bothersome about them or the people who like them!
@MindyBadger1 I don't think E2 is ready for dreamfeeding. She is still nursing every 2-3 hours. If she isn't hungry she won't wake up, no way no how. I didn't start dream feeding E1 until 4 months. I'm more comfortable doing it at that age or older.
I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, LO is stirring, so I'm not able to read through everything (also apologize for any typos, etc). But I wanted to address pastors being able to refuse to do weddings, etc, based on their beliefs--that's not what is going on. DH is a UMC pastor and regardless of how he feels about gay marriage is not allowed to perform one because the church does not allow it. At least with the UMC, their pastors have to uphold the church's beliefs, so it has nothing to do with what they believe--actually, it can be a conflict. DH believes gay people have the right to marry as much as anyone and since he can marry a glutton or alcoholic or adulterer, he would marry a gay couple. However, it's not the church's position (at this time, that will change) so he practices his job, personal beliefs aside.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to compare discrimination against blacks and gays. A private business owner is entitled to their religious beliefs just as a gay couple is entitled to theirs. A business owner should not have to sacrifice their beliefs in order to honor someones else's, particularly if no one being harmed. If you don't like the way a business owner chooses who they serve to then find business elsewhere. That's the beauty of America.
From what I understand, the bakery had served the gay couple many times before refusing to make their wedding cake. The bakery didn't refuse to serve them because they are gay, but because the baker doesn't support gay marriage and the cake was for a wedding. Asking the baker to put aside his religious convictions and support the wedding anyway is no better than asking the gay couple to put aside their love and not get married.
2) please don't post on Facebook the moment you have a positive pregnancy test, because I won't be happy for you yet. Wait till you get out of the first trimester. (Happened to a highschool friend, and then had to tell the Facebook world that she had a miscarriage, had to be a million times harder)
@slmille4 Happened to me but my situation was a little different (I think). I was an open book about my fertility struggles and everyone knew we did another round of Ivf and of course wanted to know how it went. I waited 6 weeks after an ultrasound and heard the heartbeat. I shared on Facebook and miscarried a few weeks later. It was super hard to share but I received a lot of support that mostly was positive. It was part of my journey and sharing it was mostly helpful. But with this pregnancy I waited 12 weeks and after 5 (yes 5!) good ultrasounds and a normal dna test result. But I do cringe when others post it so early now (especially if it happened naturally, I am more nervous for them then excited, but that is my own issue).
I'm 33 DH is 36
Married 6/27/2009 Together since 10/22/2005 TTC since 8/2010 (off BCP since 8/2009) Unexplained Infertility
12/26/2012 U/S #2 8w6d - No more heartbeat, MMC; D&C; Chromosome testing normal; male RPL testing normal
4/3/2013 DX Asherman's Syndrome caused by D&C, hysteroscopy done
June 2013 IVF #4 planned
5/12/2013 SURPRISE BFP! Natural cycle
7/11/2013 Panorama results Normal!!! Team Pink, partial previa moved up in 2nd tri9/5/13 (19w) AS scan shows short cervix, 2.5 cm 9/19 (21w) Cervix is worse 1.87cm, bed rest 10/26 & 10/27 steroid shots 12/19 (35w) DX: SGA Baby went from 57% percentile to 18th percentile in 6 weeks. Weekly BPP and NST until she is here. 1/17/18 Growth scan puts Abby below 10th percent in size, low amniotic fluid, and less movement. Time to induce! 1/18/14 2:11am Abigial Morgan is here! 5lbs 14oz and 18 inches of pure cuteness!!!
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, nothing scares me more at this point than the thought of twins. You do WHATEVER ON EARTH works for you and I will be absolutely silent and never judge you.
I never thought of twins + dreamfeeding. Does seem more than reasonable.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to compare discrimination against blacks and gays. A private business owner is entitled to their religious beliefs just as a gay couple is entitled to theirs. A business owner should not have to sacrifice their beliefs in order to honor someones else's, particularly if no one being harmed. If you don't like the way a business owner chooses who they serve to then find business elsewhere. That's the beauty of America.
I don't understand how you can say there is no comparison between discrimination between blacks and gays. If you chose not to serve someone over race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc that's discrimination.
And how would business owners know the sexual orientation of their patrons (besides the bakery example we've been discussing) would they assume that 2 people of the same gender eating together were gay? It's not like people wear a big sign announcing they're gay.
Because black people were treated as property and were chained and beaten and forced to be slaves. Discrimination towards gay people doesn't compare. In the case of the bakery, they didn't choose not to serve them because they're gay. The bakery had served them many times before. They chose not to support their gay wedding by not making their wedding cake.
Everyone should be able to drive a standard transmission.
***
stuck in quote box! I agree. My parents grew up in South Africa and everyone there had to do their driving test in a standard, regardless of whether they would be driving a standard once they had their license or not. Not sure if that's still the rule (I've lived in Canada since I was 2) but I think it's a good one
I love that in SA they put that bigass L sticker on new drivers' cars. It reminds me of the loser Ls on your forehead from the 90s.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to compare discrimination against blacks and gays. A private business owner is entitled to their religious beliefs just as a gay couple is entitled to theirs. A business owner should not have to sacrifice their beliefs in order to honor someones else's, particularly if no one being harmed. If you don't like the way a business owner chooses who they serve to then find business elsewhere. That's the beauty of America.
I don't understand how you can say there is no comparison between discrimination between blacks and gays. If you chose not to serve someone over race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc that's discrimination.
And how would business owners know the sexual orientation of their patrons (besides the bakery example we've been discussing) would they assume that 2 people of the same gender eating together were gay? It's not like people wear a big sign announcing they're gay.
Because black people were treated as property and were chained and beaten and forced to be slaves. Discrimination towards gay people doesn't compare. In the case of the bakery, they didn't choose not to serve them because they're gay. The bakery had served them many times before. They chose not to support their gay wedding by not making their wedding cake.
Ever heard of Matthew Shepard?
My gay best friend avoids holding hands with his partner in publoc and tries not to go around certain areas at night.
Discrimination is discrimination.
This makes my blood boil. Not selling a cake spreads the idea that its ok to treat otherslike second rate citizens.
I obviously didn't know what the term dream feeding actually meant... For whatever reason I just associated it with motn feeding. Id never wake dd to eat- but when she wakes up, I offer her boob before she cries or anything to keep her relaxed so she falls back to sleep easier.
Race discrimination and sexual orientation discrimination are absolutely on the same level and must be treated the same. It is completely unacceptable, and shame on anyone for saying otherwise. I'd love for them to be in any of the most targeted groups and hold onto such ignorance.
@lena122, I'd suggest thinking things through a little more before posting again. I haven't been able to participate because I have a super fussy baby. But I had to address this. Your lack of understanding of how the two groups compare is appalling. To be frank.
This thread proves why we still need laws to protect people against discrimination and why we cannot rely on businesses to have the integrity to treat people as equals.
Everyone should be able to drive a standard transmission.
***
stuck in quote box! I agree. My parents grew up in South Africa and everyone there had to do their driving test in a standard, regardless of whether they would be driving a standard once they had their license or not. Not sure if that's still the rule (I've lived in Canada since I was 2) but I think it's a good one
I love that in SA they put that bigass L sticker on new drivers' cars. It reminds me of the loser Ls on your forehead from the 90s.
They do this in Canada too. We get an L (learner) followed by an N (new)
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to compare discrimination against blacks and gays. A private business owner is entitled to their religious beliefs just as a gay couple is entitled to theirs. A business owner should not have to sacrifice their beliefs in order to honor someones else's, particularly if no one being harmed. If you don't like the way a business owner chooses who they serve to then find business elsewhere. That's the beauty of America.
I don't understand how you can say there is no comparison between discrimination between blacks and gays. If you chose not to serve someone over race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc that's discrimination.
And how would business owners know the sexual orientation of their patrons (besides the bakery example we've been discussing) would they assume that 2 people of the same gender eating together were gay? It's not like people wear a big sign announcing they're gay.
Because black people were treated as property and were chained and beaten and forced to be slaves. Discrimination towards gay people doesn't compare. In the case of the bakery, they didn't choose not to serve them because they're gay. The bakery had served them many times before. They chose not to support their gay wedding by not making their wedding cake.
Ever heard of Matthew Shepard?
My gay best friend avoids holding hands with his partner in publoc and tries not to go around certain areas at night.
Discrimination is discrimination.
This makes my blood boil. Not selling a cake spreads the idea that its ok to treat otherslike second rate citizens.
Matthew Shepard was one person, not an entire race. And I'm not saying gays haven't been discriminated against, just that it doesn't compare to black people. While Jim Crowe laws came after slavery, they were clearly a result of how black people were treated. The laws also applied to public facilities... schools, transportation, etc. The matter being discussed is private businesses. The government should not tell people who they can love just like they shouldn't tell people how they should worship.
It doesn't compare only because a black person can't hide their skin the way a gay person can hide themselves. You bet your ass if there was a sign on every gay person that said "I'm gay" the crimes, discrimination, horrible history etc. would be much higher historically and today. Because some people are intolerant morons who need laws to tell them how to act like a human.
Re: UO Thursday
married 3/3/12----- Alanson Kavi born 1/15/14
When I need Sleep, I say that is what DH is for.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
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Edit: Made slight change to the first sentence. Made it more clear.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
Eta I think I might like cats because they are satanic.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
I don't get or buy into dream feeding. I haven't looked into any of the research or studies, but feeding a baby when its not hungry flies in the face of all the counseling i do down the road re: healthy eating habits and childhood obesity.
When I need Sleep, I say that is what DH is for.
I have to disagree. When we did sleep training with DS1 at 8 months, I did three dream feeds overnight to prevent the 10+ night wake ups for eating/comfort nursing. Weaned the dream feeds over 4 months, but it helped tremendously.
Edit: on mobile, quoting fail
________________________________________________________________________________________________
sibling love
Aside from the potential imagined long term consequences, id be afraid of creating a monster that cries every time it's a little hungry versus ready to eat a complete "meal".
And furthermore (not directed at you) don't even mention dreamfeeds if you're concerned about reflux/spitting up/meds. Drives me nuts.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
Eh. I dream fed E1 and she's a string bean. H was deployed so there was no "Oh H can do MOTN feedings, I need sleep." And now, H doesn't lactate so...
married 3/3/12----- Alanson Kavi born 1/15/14
FFTC: My best friend tried teaching me over a three month period in high school and I completely sucked at driving standard. We would go to an empty church parking lot almost everyday after school...I just could not get the hang of the clutch and gear shift.
I always wanted to learn how to drive one. My brothers shared one in high school and they always said they would teach me but never did. The most I ever did was change gears from the passenger seat on back roads while my dad drove and he told me what gear to put it in.
BFP #2 (5/18/13) due 1/26/14. Grow baby grow!
Its a surprise! Team green!
Most consequences of poor eating habits don't show themselves until early adulthood.
I'm EBF. Sometimes I'm sleep deprived. I try to have a bottle in the fridge ready to go. And pumping sucks, but for me is easier than feedinf, burping, changing, putting back to bed.
Just because DH doesnt lactate doesnt mean he can't help. That's bs.
edit- quoting fail
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
@ChuggingWater
I just love how you roll with the UOs.
All the people should do all the things, @peanutmuse ! Rum I!
Baby Chugging born 12.28.13
induction due to HELLP
Baby Chugging born 12.28.13
induction due to HELLP
Oh he helps! Just not with feedings. He is the one that holds her in the recliner in between feedings when she's fussy so I can sleep.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
Due Date 11/10/16
Baby Chugging born 12.28.13
induction due to HELLP
I agree, I am against frivolous lawsuits. Sorry I am mobile so if I quote the walls of texts it may be confusing.
I think, who cares if a business wants to turn ppl away. It's their choice they own the business. If they want to hurt their business its their choice. I am sure that bakery lost a lot of business and they should because sexual orientation is a stupid reason to discriminate. But I still think it should be a right since they own the business.
I have nothing against gays and have some gay friends and therefore if I owned a business would never turn anyone away. Money is money. The more ppl u refuse the more u hurt your business and sooner than later you probably won't have said business.
Like I said if that bakery wants to hurt or potentially ruin their business. Let them do it. I am sure there are plenty of businesses that would be happy to provide the couple service.
BFP #2 (5/18/13) due 1/26/14. Grow baby grow!
Its a surprise! Team green!
From what I understand, the bakery had served the gay couple many times before refusing to make their wedding cake. The bakery didn't refuse to serve them because they are gay, but because the baker doesn't support gay marriage and the cake was for a wedding. Asking the baker to put aside his religious convictions and support the wedding anyway is no better than asking the gay couple to put aside their love and not get married.
Happened to me but my situation was a little different (I think). I was an open book about my fertility struggles and everyone knew we did another round of Ivf and of course wanted to know how it went. I waited 6 weeks after an ultrasound and heard the heartbeat. I shared on Facebook and miscarried a few weeks later. It was super hard to share but I received a lot of support that mostly was positive. It was part of my journey and sharing it was mostly helpful. But with this pregnancy I waited 12 weeks and after 5 (yes 5!) good ultrasounds and a normal dna test result. But I do cringe when others post it so early now (especially if it happened naturally, I am more nervous for them then excited, but that is my own issue).
TTC since 8/2010 (off BCP since 8/2009) Unexplained Infertility
12/10/2012 U/S #1 6w4d - heartbeat EDD 8/1/13
1/18/14 2:11am Abigial Morgan is here! 5lbs 14oz and 18 inches of pure cuteness!!!
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, nothing scares me more at this point than the thought of twins.
I never thought of twins + dreamfeeding. Does seem more than reasonable.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
I love that in SA they put that bigass L sticker on new drivers' cars. It reminds me of the loser Ls on your forehead from the 90s.
married 3/3/12----- Alanson Kavi born 1/15/14
My gay best friend avoids holding hands with his partner in publoc and tries not to go around certain areas at night.
Discrimination is discrimination.
This makes my blood boil. Not selling a cake spreads the idea that its ok to treat otherslike second rate citizens.
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________
Race discrimination and sexual orientation discrimination are absolutely on the same level and must be treated the same. It is completely unacceptable, and shame on anyone for saying otherwise. I'd love for them to be in any of the most targeted groups and hold onto such ignorance.
married 3/3/12----- Alanson Kavi born 1/15/14
My cat can read EKGs, can your human do that?
_________________________________________________________________