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April 2014 Moms
nicole mackenzie
member
So mad and hurt! So much for a happy family Christmas gathering...
nicole mackenzie
member
I'll try not to make this long but I need to get it out.
My sister is bipolar ( finally diagnosed recently after years of suffering in silence... But not well regulated yet)
She got a dog a few years ago. He's good for her. But he's not good with other dogs and has pinned my 80lb German Shepard on several occasions.
So last summer she was going to come to our house the day before my brothers wedding but we asked that she bring her dogs kennel.
She refused to come and just went to the wedding the next day and hardly spoke to DH or I.
We had Christmas early at my house this year and she and my brother came up the night before.
The dogs got in a little scuffle so I put her dog in my kennel. She took him right out.
I kenneled my dog but asked that she leave her dog in the hallway behind a gate so my dog wouldn't get jealous and bark and cry. She was pissed.
Later I asked her to leave her dog inside so my dog could be outside alone with DH. Again she was pissed and still went outside with her dog so I brought mine back inside.
Next day there were three dogs. So I kenneled her dog and mine during supper and present opening and let the third dog hang out loose in the room because it was the most well behaved of the three. She sat next to him and babied him ( fed his anxiety ) the whole time. He used to be fine in his kennel... But now he barks and cries. I think she's projecting her anxiety in him and feeding his bad behavior because she is anxious and uncomfortable.
My dog stayed in his kennel or in my bedroom all day while she let hers back out.
Later that night we were watching a movie in my small living room. She had him on a leash wrapped around her ankle.
My cat tried to leave the room and he growled. Not ok.
So my cat tries to leave the room and he lunges at her growling! My dad caught him by the collar which upsets my sister. She did yell hey once then coddled her dog close to her.
I retrieved my cat and left the room and broke down in tears. I insisted she put her dog in a kennel via my mom who asked gently. She refused.
She said he hadn't had a lot of excersise ( had an hour hike that day so more than my dog got locked in his kennel while I cooked dinner...) and that he was scared and confused by so many new expectations and that we couldn't expect him to behave.
She drove off in freezing rain. I never would have forgiven myself if something had happened to her that night.
I texted her saying that I didn't think she had a bad dog and had not meant her to feel kicked out but that I had a legitimate concern for the safety of my cat and that she should have respected that and removed her dog from the room and put him in the kennel until he had calmed down.
Her response was that her dog was scared and it would not have done any good to scare him more in the kennel and he would have barked. And that she didnt feel kicked out just didn't want to be there. And that having him on the leash was good enough.
Im pretty sure she will never visit me again and likely not talk to me for a long time if at all.
We were so close before she got an official diagnosis.
I'm hurt that she's being so disrespectful. I feel guilty for upsetting her so much and am terrified for her well being. I've cried all day. And I'm so mad!
I don't want her dog around my pets let alone my baby but if I tell her she needs to kennel train and be willing to make the dogs take turns being kenneled or her dog can't come to my house she will never come again.
She had untreated bipolar disorder before? Why is she worse now? And is it normal for someone with bipolar disorder to suddenly rename their dog after 3 years? And am I being insensitive to her asking her to keep her dog away from my cat and dog? We all feel like we have to walk on eggshells around her and can't ask her to make her dog behave around ourselves and our pets. She's letting her dog get away with everything and just expects us to cater to him.
Thanks for reading this if you did...
Any advice on how to approach this subject with someone with bipolar disease without making their depression worse. Should I just kennel my dog an cat and let her dog do whatever?
My sister is bipolar ( finally diagnosed recently after years of suffering in silence... But not well regulated yet)
She got a dog a few years ago. He's good for her. But he's not good with other dogs and has pinned my 80lb German Shepard on several occasions.
So last summer she was going to come to our house the day before my brothers wedding but we asked that she bring her dogs kennel.
She refused to come and just went to the wedding the next day and hardly spoke to DH or I.
We had Christmas early at my house this year and she and my brother came up the night before.
The dogs got in a little scuffle so I put her dog in my kennel. She took him right out.
I kenneled my dog but asked that she leave her dog in the hallway behind a gate so my dog wouldn't get jealous and bark and cry. She was pissed.
Later I asked her to leave her dog inside so my dog could be outside alone with DH. Again she was pissed and still went outside with her dog so I brought mine back inside.
Next day there were three dogs. So I kenneled her dog and mine during supper and present opening and let the third dog hang out loose in the room because it was the most well behaved of the three. She sat next to him and babied him ( fed his anxiety ) the whole time. He used to be fine in his kennel... But now he barks and cries. I think she's projecting her anxiety in him and feeding his bad behavior because she is anxious and uncomfortable.
My dog stayed in his kennel or in my bedroom all day while she let hers back out.
Later that night we were watching a movie in my small living room. She had him on a leash wrapped around her ankle.
My cat tried to leave the room and he growled. Not ok.
So my cat tries to leave the room and he lunges at her growling! My dad caught him by the collar which upsets my sister. She did yell hey once then coddled her dog close to her.
I retrieved my cat and left the room and broke down in tears. I insisted she put her dog in a kennel via my mom who asked gently. She refused.
She said he hadn't had a lot of excersise ( had an hour hike that day so more than my dog got locked in his kennel while I cooked dinner...) and that he was scared and confused by so many new expectations and that we couldn't expect him to behave.
She drove off in freezing rain. I never would have forgiven myself if something had happened to her that night.
I texted her saying that I didn't think she had a bad dog and had not meant her to feel kicked out but that I had a legitimate concern for the safety of my cat and that she should have respected that and removed her dog from the room and put him in the kennel until he had calmed down.
Her response was that her dog was scared and it would not have done any good to scare him more in the kennel and he would have barked. And that she didnt feel kicked out just didn't want to be there. And that having him on the leash was good enough.
Im pretty sure she will never visit me again and likely not talk to me for a long time if at all.
We were so close before she got an official diagnosis.
I'm hurt that she's being so disrespectful. I feel guilty for upsetting her so much and am terrified for her well being. I've cried all day. And I'm so mad!
I don't want her dog around my pets let alone my baby but if I tell her she needs to kennel train and be willing to make the dogs take turns being kenneled or her dog can't come to my house she will never come again.
She had untreated bipolar disorder before? Why is she worse now? And is it normal for someone with bipolar disorder to suddenly rename their dog after 3 years? And am I being insensitive to her asking her to keep her dog away from my cat and dog? We all feel like we have to walk on eggshells around her and can't ask her to make her dog behave around ourselves and our pets. She's letting her dog get away with everything and just expects us to cater to him.
Thanks for reading this if you did...
Any advice on how to approach this subject with someone with bipolar disease without making their depression worse. Should I just kennel my dog an cat and let her dog do whatever?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: So mad and hurt! So much for a happy family Christmas gathering...
I do take my pets with me to my family member's homes. I do however understand that my pets are visitors in their home. My pets are kennel trained so we can expect them to behave wherever we take them. Our border collie/lab mix gets excited (not aggressive) but she can knock people and other animals down. We do not expect that behavior to be overlooked. Your sister should not expect her dogs behavior to be overlooked. I do understand that due to your sister's situation, she may not think rationally. I think you have every right to protect your pets and expect her to kennel her dog when needed. That unfortunately may be easier said than done. I think the even bigger picture is protecting your LO. If your sister refuses to come to your home because she doesn't like your rules you may have to let that be your deciding factor. If her dog acts aggressive towards other animals, it may become aggressive to your LO which could be a a tragedy waiting to happen. I am sorry I don't have any advice to sway her way of thinking, but IMO you might have to be the one to make a choice and decide how the situation will end.
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
Tell her that you love her visits and want to spend time with her, but in the future she will need to leave her dog at home.
BTW: my sister is bopolar and is unmediated. It can be a challenge, but you have to establish firm, clear boundaries and stay consistent!!
If you modify your house rules for her and let her seemingly badly behaved dog run wild in your home, you're teaching her that the way she handled things on this visit was effective and right. This won't help her learn appropriate assertiveness and won't help her develop coping skills for when things don't go exactly the way she wants them to go.
My usual approach is to not hold behaviors and events against the people I love with bipolar disorder, but that doesn't mean that the rules change for them. It simply means that when they act the way your sister was just acting, and they eventually come to their senses and call, I just tell them I love them and I know they are working through some difficult times, and that I'm there for them. Love and forgiveness are necessary, but changing your boundaries so that your sister never has to learn how to function within certain norms isn't necessary, and isn't helpful.
T&P for your family.
We worry because she has bipolar disorder so she does not always think rationally. She takes things very personally and I worry about her physically hurting herself.
We normally allow our friends to bring their pets to our home too... And vice versa although we always make sure to ask first.
@Vinny424
I don't think she is intentionally using her disease as an excuse but it does feel like as we walk around on eggshells we reinforce her negative behavior and she is getting used to being treated in this way. So it's being used as an excuse.
I have depression and anxiety issues myself. I am notoriously a pushover but I've gotten much better since meeting my supportive DH, speaking with a counselor, and Prozac. I moved and haven't found a new counselor and I'm off my meds while I'm pregnant, but I've been doing well so far without.
Everyone was supportive of my request and were glad that I said something to her although sad she reacted the way she did.
Then I peed on a stick...
I am angry and i feel I don't have an outlet as it wouldnt be helpful to yell at my sister. Thanks for being kind ears ( or eyes as it were) I almost sent her a text in anger saying how she was being disrespectful and disregarding the safety of my cat etc... But I held back and vented here.
We set the boundry now we will keep it. I just have to forgive her now. Although its hard.
It hurts watching her struggle and I want to be there for her but I feel I broke her trust. I hope with time she comes around but I know she tends to hold a grudge for a very long time.
I hope she never does hurt herself
I'm going to bed but I'll read any more advice in the morning.
Thanks again, I needed this.
A lot of bipolar individuals also go through a time period where they feel better and their moods have stopped cycling so they either stop or become inconsistent with their meds. Unless they are able to accept what they need to do to live a "normal" life there is really nothing that can be done. They can't usually be forced to comply with treatment.
It is definitely difficult to cope with a sibling going through this and still be supportive when you just want to give them a punch in the face, just keep in mind that bipolar is not who she is.
Sorry this was long it's just something I feel strongly about and have had a lot of rage lately thanks to having to keep my mouth shut around a few people spouting about big pharma creating mental illness/the drugs are only poisoning you and if you led a healthy vegan lifestyle you would magically be cured.
POS+April 2009-M/c May 2009, POS+July 2009-M/c Aug 2009, POS+ Novemeber 2009 -Baby Boy Charlie DOB 07/06/2010, POS+July 2011-M/c and D&C Aug 2011, POS+Dec 2011 -Baby Boy Ethan DOB 07/27/2012, POS+Aug 2013-TWIN BOYS! Jack and Miles born March 23rd 2014!!
So because of my personal experience with the disorder, I see two dfferent issues here. 1. Lack of boundaries. Maybe or maybe not related to the bipolar disorder. How would you treat anyone else who's dog behaved in that manner? 2. Lack of understanding of the disorder. Most of the things you've said she's done don't really seem like they're happening *because* of her disorder.
Also, it took me 3 years to find the right combination of meds. So, yes, be sensitive to those things, but there is no need to be walking on eggshells. I can speak from experience that some of the medications had me feeling like a completely different person - though I acted pretty normal on the outside. Once I found the right "cocktail," things really started to feel balanced. Try to be as supportive as you can; bipolar disorder is very lonely. It's not something that is talked about openly or with much understanding, so folks who suffer from it tend to hide it for fear of being judged and treated like they're crazy. When in all honesty, open communication about how the meds are affecting a person and being treated "normally" go a long way in helping folks find their balance.
Good luck, and if you'd like to chat, feel free to PM. I speak up a lot about bipolar disorder, as I'm one who's not ashamed. I'd really love for people to be more educated about it and it's complexity, and not be scared to discuss it.
Sorry this was long it's just something I feel strongly about and have had a lot of rage lately thanks to having to keep my mouth shut around a few people spouting about big pharma creating mental illness/the drugs are only poisoning you and if you led a healthy vegan lifestyle you would magically be cured.
I wish bipolar disease wasn't real...
I know what general depression is like and it is so frustrating to feel too depressed to function and feeling like you're being lazy and have no reason to feel the way you do. But it is real and our feelings are legitimate.
I will never doubt my sisters diagnosis and luckily my family is behind her as well.
My sister has always been very independent and strong willed. She does NOT like to be told what to do. She gets things done and I admire her perseverance.
She was never a dog person... And doesn't have a lot of experience. I work as a licensed vet tech and have trained puppies for a blind dog organization. So I have some experience. I think she thinks I'm being a know it all...
The second thing is our dad yelled at us a lot and it affected us negatively. I think that reprimanding her dog makes her feel uncomfortable and reminds her of my dad yelling at us. Although I havent yelled at her dog, just spoke firmly and put him in his kennel. And I believe in positive reinforcement training unless the dog does something to hurt a human or animal. In that case I think it's ok to yell no and take the dog by his collar and take him to his kennel immediately. But I think even this reaction reminds my sister of our dad. She tries to reason with the dog and console him.
My sister is on edge and anxious around my family anyways so maybe I pushed her over the edge trying to remove her dog?
I guess that I assumed her behavior with the dog was connected to the bipolar disorder.
I think we fear upsetting her and sending her into a low manic depressed state.
How connected are outside influences on the depression involved with bipolar?
Are there any books you would recommend family members read?
As far as other dogs. Most visiting dogs have been good. A friend stayed with us for a couple weeks and her foster dog bit my dog and he needed stitches and a drain ( so my dog is only just barely healed as of our Christmas party. ) she was very courteous and kept her dog kenneled or in the guest bedroom with her and away from my dog after that.
We have one other friend with a reactive dog but it hasn't really come up with them.
My dog did not bite the other dog back. Barely scratched her. But he is learning to be more reactive from several encounters with my sister and a couple foster dogs...
We are no longer going to be as open to visiting dogs. We need to recondition him with some good dogs.
Having the support of your family even when you're at your lowest can really make a lot of difference. Definitely keep being there for her but make sure not to put the well-being of you and your baby, husband etc. behind accommodating her.
I completely agree with Tidymonster, don't walk on eggshells. She'll have her high and low days were functioning on what we see as a normal level just isn't going to happen but honest communication will go a lot further in the long run than just trying not to get her upset.
We have friends who have never properly trained their dog. She is their baby, and gets away with murder. When my BFF was babysitting the dog she was bitten and when she told our other friend she was like "oh yeah, she does that." Yeah, dogs aren't suppossed to bite. We don't invite the dog over anymore, and my BFF doesn't watch her any more. Our other friend was pissed, but really, if the dog isn't trained it's not out fault we don't want a misbehaving animal in our house. You can only control things that are in your control: having her dog in your home is in your control. How she reacts to your baounaries isn't. I'm sorry she didn't react well, but that's not on you. You were in the right.
We have dogs who are crated when we're not home. We're not comfortable leaving them for extended periods, so if we can't take them with us or get someone to watch them, sometimes we miss out on things. It's part of being a responsible pet owner, and part of what we agreed to take on when we got dogs. If we wanted an animal who wouldn't be so dependent on our presence we would have gotten a cat.
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