Wow I guess I never gave it much thought. I am sure we will choose to have it done. But I never knew there were so many people opposed to it! I really appreciate this thread because I will at least discuss it with my DH now even though I am 98% sure we will still choose to do it!
Oh God, this thread is turning into a huge clusterfuck debate, right? Wait for the 20 week u/s. It might not even be a boy. You have so much time to discuss it, and make a decision. No need to rush now. Go at it A14.
It doesn't even seem like a Debate to me. Seems like people are just saying which way they feel and why. Nobody even seems to be debating each others positions.
I am wondering where you people who are opposed to it live? I assume I haven't heard many people opposed because I live in Nebraska and the Midwest might not be up on the trend yet?
I am wondering where you people who are opposed to it live? I assume I haven't heard many people opposed because I live in Nebraska and the Midwest might not be up on the trend yet?
I'm from DC, living in North Carolina
April 2014 May Siggy Challenge: Funny Animals- Kangaroo Mating Ritual
I believe in bodily autonomy. It is his body and when he has cognitive thinking abilities he can alter himself in whichever way he sees fit. When they are young there is nothing special to do with cleaning as you are NOT to retract the skin. My son has never had any infections or anything. I recommend savingoursons.org
@Lilmama412 I have never known a man who didn't prefer to keep his penis clean, rather than let it get gross and infected.
Also, what's wrong with him telling his wife/girlfriend that he can't have sex because of an infection?
When I get a yeast infection I don't have a problem telling DH that we can't have sex for a few days. I don't like it, but I don't think, "hey, maybe I should get my vagina removed, then I can't get an infection".
That would be the equivalent in that regard.
I keep myself clean (as I'm sure most people do), but sometimes infections are because of food consumed in excess, or intolerances, or sweat, etc., it doesn't mean someone is dirty.
----- OP. present your case, then drop it for a bit. Perhaps until you are close to delivery.
Well, we did the research, and after, I turned to hubby and said- 'I feel bad you were cut'. We did not circ and to me it seems pointless. It is in fact genital mutilation- it was started by the church to decrease sensitivity in a guy's penis so he'll masturbate less- i'm not joking- look it up- and that's almost the most sane reason- others included decreasing lunacy and blindness. When I learned this, I was horrified and opted out (up until doing any research I just figured we would circ- why? cuz all the dudes of my generation have it done and I was ignorant and had never had a reason to look in to it.) Of course it's a personal choice and I don't think any less of friends etc. that choose to do it, but I never would.
And just so everyone knows- you don't have to pull back and clean anything! A foreskin is self cleaning, like a vagina. Sure you soap up the area, but no one is going up there with a bottle brush to make sure it is clean- over cleaning and removing natural skin secretions is what causes infections/irritation. And the esthetics argument is one I do not understand- a kid's penis will never look anything like his fathers, and by the time it does, they won't be naked in the same room together comparing crotches. I agree with the above statement of 'lets remove our tonsils and appendix asap just in case something may go wrong'. I also had a great perspective from my dad who was circ'd at age 47 due to a pre-cancerous patch of skin. I asked him point blank when we were researching and he said sensitivity has gone down due to the head of his penis being exposed to underwear, the air etc- a foreskin is there to protect the penis and increase pleasure...which is why it was originally removed to decrease it. He also said it didn't make much difference. If any part of my kid's (or my own) body needed to be removed for med. reasons- of course. Until then, why?
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
Well, we did the research, and after, I turned to hubby and said- 'I feel bad you were cut'. We did not circ and to me it seems pointless. It is in fact genital mutilation- it was started by the church to decrease sensitivity in a guy's penis so he'll masturbate less- i'm not joking- look it up- and that's almost the most sane reason- others included decreasing lunacy and blindness. When I learned this, I was horrified and opted out (up until doing any research I just figured we would circ- why? cuz all the dudes of my generation have it done and I was ignorant and had never had a reason to look in to it.) Of course it's a personal choice and I don't think any less of friends etc. that choose to do it, but I never would.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
ETA: I just remembered; circumcision predates Levitical law.
My son is 6 and i had it done immediately after he was born. My insurance didnt cover it but i paid the 2 hundo because it was well worth it in the long run but everyone has their own preference,do what you feel comfortable doing and what you feel is best for your baby and family
Well let this just be a personal choice. There's so much 50/50 out there about a lot of pregnancy related issues. Some believe you can have a glass of wine while pregnant. You shouldn't die your hair while pregnant. You should consider natural birth. Should I vaccinate my child. Do research like you have and just do what you feel is best for your family.
@Lilmama412
I have never known a man who didn't prefer to keep his penis clean, rather than let it get gross and infected.
Also, what's wrong with him telling his wife/girlfriend that he can't have sex because of an infection?
When I get a yeast infection I don't have a problem telling DH that we can't have sex for a few days. I don't like it, but I don't think, "hey, maybe I should get my vagina removed, then I can't get an infection".
That would be the equivalent in that regard.
I keep myself clean (as I'm sure most people do), but sometimes infections are because of food consumed in excess, or intolerances, or sweat, etc.,
it doesn't mean someone is dirty.
-----
OP. present your case, then drop it for a bit. Perhaps until you are close to delivery.
I live in the country where guys like to hunt, fish, camp, work on cars and get dirty. DH will go out for a week in the woods and not take a shower, because there is none. I guess I'm not used to all these metrosexual guys who love to be clean. Where I come from, our guys like to be dirty. (Not saying right or wrong just culturally different I suppose.) I personally would be weirded out by a guy who was cleaner or more well dressed than me.
Removing your vagina and removing the foreskin of a penis is not the same thing. If you remove your vagina you can't have sex, have kids, have an orgasm etc. All of those things are still possible when removing the foreskin.I don't really understand that argument.
I suppose having a yeast infection and an infection on your penis would be close to the same thing. Guys are a lot more proud of their penis and take it a lot harder when their penis "doesn't work" for whatever reason. Think about this...how many women are okay talking about infertility problems...how many men do you know who will speak openly about having an ED?? Not being able to have sex is embarrassing for a guy. If you're married it obviously wouldn't be a big deal, but a having to tell your gf your penis has an infection I'm pretty sure would be pretty humiliating for any guy.
There is no medical reason to have your child circumcised. If you want to knock yourself out, but it's in no way "better" or "worth it in the long run" because there is no medical benefit. It's like getting your kids ears pierced or something. It's a cultural and cosmetic choice, not a medical one.
Mama to a little girl born July 2011 and a little boy born April 2014!
Well let this just be a personal choice. There's so much 50/50 out there about a lot of pregnancy related issues. Some believe you can have a glass of wine while pregnant. You shouldn't die your hair while pregnant. You should consider natural birth. Should I vaccinate my child. Do research like you have and just do what you feel is best for your family.
I disagree here (not just you PP a lot of people are saying this.) Don't just do it without putting real thought into it. Do your research, ask for evidence from doctors and professionals, have a healthy debate. I think if you look at the whole thread. The anti-circ'ers are all saying that based on the evidence they've seen they're choosing not to and the pro-circ'ers are just saying they are because. I think that's pretty interesting. But look at sites like the American Academy of Pediatricians' site. Stuff like that. Talk to your doctor or pediatrician about it. Make informed decisions about your child's healthcare.
Well, we did the research, and after, I turned to hubby and said- 'I feel bad you were cut'. We did not circ and to me it seems pointless. It is in fact genital mutilation- it was started by the church to decrease sensitivity in a guy's penis so he'll masturbate less- i'm not joking- look it up- and that's almost the most sane reason- others included decreasing lunacy and blindness. When I learned this, I was horrified and opted out (up until doing any research I just figured we would circ- why? cuz all the dudes of my generation have it done and I was ignorant and had never had a reason to look in to it.) Of course it's a personal choice and I don't think any less of friends etc. that choose to do it, but I never would.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
It's cool if you don't agree- again, i'm not making up what I researched. If you choose, you can look it up for yourself. I was shocked at what I learned and opted out. As I already stated, it is a personal choice and yours to make and what you choose doesn't affect me and I would never judge it. I'm sure it won't be hard to find the info I presented- it was easy enough for me. Almost all of my info was given to me by my MW- research for and against. The 'for' just didn't make sense to me, so I made my choice. It's all good. My claim is not ignorant, it's well researched. You do know that levitical law is of the church?- I don't quite understand your argument, but it's cool. Nothing against the church either, but they got this one wrong. Happy researching! Time for sleep. Maybe i'll catch ya again tomorrow. Peace!
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
Well, we did the research, and after, I turned to hubby and said- 'I feel bad you were cut'. We did not circ and to me it seems pointless. It is in fact genital mutilation- it was started by the church to decrease sensitivity in a guy's penis so he'll masturbate less- i'm not joking- look it up- and that's almost the most sane reason- others included decreasing lunacy and blindness. When I learned this, I was horrified and opted out (up until doing any research I just figured we would circ- why? cuz all the dudes of my generation have it done and I was ignorant and had never had a reason to look in to it.) Of course it's a personal choice and I don't think any less of friends etc. that choose to do it, but I never would.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
It's cool if you don't agree- again, i'm not making up what I researched. If you choose, you can look it up for yourself. I was shocked at what I learned and opted out. As I already stated, it is a personal choice and yours to make and what you choose doesn't affect me and I would never judge it. I'm sure it won't be hard to find the info I presented- it was easy enough for me. Almost all of my info was given to me by my MW- research for and against. The 'for' just didn't make sense to me, so I made my choice. It's all good. My claim is not ignorant, it's well researched. You do know that levitical law is of the church?- I don't quite understand your argument, but it's cool. Nothing against the church either, but they got this one wrong. Happy researching! Time for sleep. Maybe i'll catch ya again tomorrow. Peace!
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people and the Jewish faith, I seriously have no words.
ETA: I'm not talking about your claims about circ'ing. I didn't even discuss my views on circ'ing, and I won't. I'm talking about an extremely ignorant claim that the Church----the Christian Church---invented a practice that's been a religious custom in the Jewish faith for thousands of years.
You can believe whatever you want to believe about circ'ing, but FFS, know the actual history. Judaism predates Christianity by about 2,000 years. They were practicing circ'ing loooong before there was a "church."
Circumcision is a very important Jewish religious custom. Claiming that the Christian Church invented it is extremely ignorant, and extremely disrespectful to people of the Jewish faith. Do. Your. Research.
Well let this just be a personal choice. There's so much 50/50 out there about a lot of pregnancy related issues. Some believe you can have a glass of wine while pregnant. You shouldn't die your hair while pregnant. You should consider natural birth. Should I vaccinate my child. Do research like you have and just do what you feel is best for your family.
I disagree here (not just you PP a lot of people are saying this.) Don't just do it without putting real thought into it. Do your research, ask for evidence from doctors and professionals, have a healthy debate. I think if you look at the whole thread. The anti-circ'ers are all saying that based on the evidence they've seen they're choosing not to and the pro-circ'ers are just saying they are because. I think that's pretty interesting. But look at sites like the American Academy of Pediatricians' site. Stuff like that. Talk to your doctor or pediatrician about it. Make informed decisions about your child's healthcare.
@KadieA512 This isn't true at all. People on both sides are giving legit arguments. I think the anti's are saying we aren't just because there is no reason for it. The arguments I've heard from pro's are some medical professional who say that they have SEEN patients come in with infected penis'. One girl said that her DH had to go to the ER the first time he had sex. Some people said that their DH's regretted that their parents didn't get them circumcised. Others have had personal experience with uncircumcised penis getting an infection. Please actually read the forum with an open mind.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
It's cool if you don't agree- again, i'm not making up what I researched. If you choose, you can look it up for yourself. I was shocked at what I learned and opted out. As I already stated, it is a personal choice and yours to make and what you choose doesn't affect me and I would never judge it. I'm sure it won't be hard to find the info I presented- it was easy enough for me. Almost all of my info was given to me by my MW- research for and against. The 'for' just didn't make sense to me, so I made my choice. It's all good. My claim is not ignorant, it's well researched. You do know that levitical law is of the church?- I don't quite understand your argument, but it's cool. Nothing against the church either, but they got this one wrong. Happy researching! Time for sleep. Maybe i'll catch ya again tomorrow. Peace!
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people, I seriously have no words.
--------- @scarlett&gatsby No snark intended because I know nothing but basics of the Jewish faith, but why is it disrespectful?
Eta: NM saw your edit!!
April 2014 May Siggy Challenge: Funny Animals- Kangaroo Mating Ritual
I'm here with an open mind. A major no-no in science is taking anecdotal evidence as real evidence. If your doctor isn't looking at studies and only anecdotal evidence, that's a bad doctor. Plus if they are the doctor performing it, it makes sense they want you to get it, it's $$ in their pocket. All I'm saying is actually think about it and ask for real evidence.
Oh God, this thread is turning into a huge clusterfuck debate, right? Wait for the 20 week u/s. It might not even be a boy. You have so much time to discuss it, and make a decision. No need to rush now. Go at it A14.
:-?? Where was that happening before this?
September Siggy Challenge: What I Sing in the Shower: Little Mermaid "Part Of That World"
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
It's cool if you don't agree- again, i'm not making up what I researched. If you choose, you can look it up for yourself. I was shocked at what I learned and opted out. As I already stated, it is a personal choice and yours to make and what you choose doesn't affect me and I would never judge it. I'm sure it won't be hard to find the info I presented- it was easy enough for me. Almost all of my info was given to me by my MW- research for and against. The 'for' just didn't make sense to me, so I made my choice. It's all good. My claim is not ignorant, it's well researched. You do know that levitical law is of the church?- I don't quite understand your argument, but it's cool. Nothing against the church either, but they got this one wrong. Happy researching! Time for sleep. Maybe i'll catch ya again tomorrow. Peace!
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people, I seriously have no words.
---------
@scarlett&gatsby
No snark intended because I know nothing but basics of the Jewish faith, but why is it disrespectful?
No problem! Happy to explain.
It's disrespectful to Jewish people because it completely ignores and paints over their history and involvement in circumcision. Circumcision, as far as we know, was invented* by the Hebrews as a way to set themselves apart as the people of God.
Claiming that the Church randomly came up with circ'ing to make men stop masterbating is a huge slap in the face of people who hold circ'ing in high regard as a religious rite. I consider that pretty disrespectful.
(*according to the Torah, God instructed Abraham to circumcise himself and all of his descendants as a way to clearly set them apart as his people.)
As an aside, I'm not Jewish. But bad history and utter ignorance of religion makes me twitch.
I'm pretty sure (read the old testament a long time ago) Leviticus is largely about cleanliness and societal laws. Things about isolating women on their period and food preparations and stuff. So i would doubt that masturbation had anything to do with the law and it came from wanting to keep men clean. (Definitely could be wrong)
I can totally see Christians adopting this practice for making sex wrong and dirty.
eta: I posted before I read your explanation Scarlett, thanks!!
April 2014 May Siggy Challenge: Funny Animals- Kangaroo Mating Ritual
I'm here with an open mind. A major no-no in science is taking anecdotal evidence as real evidence. If your doctor isn't looking at studies and only anecdotal evidence, that's a bad doctor. Plus if they are the doctor performing it, it makes sense they want you to get it, it's $$ in their pocket. All I'm saying is actually think about it and ask for real evidence.
Actually, doctors barely get paid to do curcumcisions. In NY, they probably got paid $15-25 for a circ. There is really no reason why they would push for one. They leave it up to the parents to decide. A lot of OBs that I know only do it because their patients request it.
My oldest son is, but my youngest is not. Let me tell you from personal experience. My youngest has had so many diaper rashes and even a bad infection once. It's really hard to keep clean. I clean my sons little birdy often but the smell, lent, etc still gets in there. Not too mention, I feel very uncomfortable having to pull his skin back and clean it.
My son is intact and we have never had a diaper rash or infection. Circumcision vs leaving intact has nothing to do with diaper rash- diaper rash is related to the ammonia from urine sitting against the skin for long periods of time. Also, unless your son is 10+ years old, his foreskin shouldn't be retracted, and you certainly shouldn't be the one doing it. The first person to retract a fore skin should be the owner of the penis. There's no need to do it for cleaning or any other purpose and its dangerous to do so before it has naturally retracted on its own (usually around puberty). All the "cleaning" that an intact penis requires is soap and water, just like a circumcised one, even after the fore skin has retracted.
OP, come back to this later in pregnancy and research together.
Circumcision is something I didn't even know was a hot topic until I was on the Bump. All my friends with boys have had it done. I just assumed it was a given. But I'm glad I had a girl so I wouldn't have to make the decision. Maybe i'll have another girl and dodge the bullet again. Any medical procedure, even a minor one, especially a medically unnecessary one, on a newborn is worth researching.
BFP: 7/5/10 EDD: 3/13/11 Miscarriage 8/1/10 at 8 weeks
BFP: 10/30/10 EDD: 7/7/11 Born 7/11//11 7lb12oz, 20 in.
BFP: 7/30/13 EDD: 4/9/14 Born right on time on his due date! 8lb10oz, 21.5 in.
Awesome prophetic fortune cookie: Love is a present that can be given every single day you live
@Lilmama412 I have never known a man who didn't prefer to keep his penis clean, rather than let it get gross and infected.
Also, what's wrong with him telling his wife/girlfriend that he can't have sex because of an infection?
When I get a yeast infection I don't have a problem telling DH that we can't have sex for a few days. I don't like it, but I don't think, "hey, maybe I should get my vagina removed, then I can't get an infection".
That would be the equivalent in that regard.
I keep myself clean (as I'm sure most people do), but sometimes infections are because of food consumed in excess, or intolerances, or sweat, etc., it doesn't mean someone is dirty.
----- OP. present your case, then drop it for a bit. Perhaps until you are close to delivery.
I live in the country where guys like to hunt, fish, camp, work on cars and get dirty. DH will go out for a week in the woods and not take a shower, because there is none. I guess I'm not used to all these metrosexual guys who love to be clean. Where I come from, our guys like to be dirty. (Not saying right or wrong just culturally different I suppose.) I personally would be weirded out by a guy who was cleaner or more well dressed than me.
Removing your vagina and removing the foreskin of a penis is not the same thing. If you remove your vagina you can't have sex, have kids, have an orgasm etc. All of those things are still possible when removing the foreskin.I don't really understand that argument.
I suppose having a yeast infection and an infection on your penis would be close to the same thing. Guys are a lot more proud of their penis and take it a lot harder when their penis "doesn't work" for whatever reason. Think about this...how many women are okay talking about infertility problems...how many men do you know who will speak openly about having an ED?? Not being able to have sex is embarrassing for a guy. If you're married it obviously wouldn't be a big deal, but a having to tell your gf your penis has an infection I'm pretty sure would be pretty humiliating for any guy.
----- I grew up in the backwoods area myself. I have many friends whose husbands go hunting and fishing for weeks at a time. They don't shower during that time either. They don't get infections because of it. (My DH is not into that)
Removing a vagina was being compared to removing the foreskin because those are two common infection sites. If you want a one on one comparison, think about having your clitoris removed to compare to having foreskin removed. Both people will enjoy sex less because of the removal.
If a guy is too embarrassed to say he can't have sex due to a medical issue, then he perhaps shouldn't be having sex at all. I dated a guy with ED. We dealt with it. I dated a guy who had a sports injury and needed to avoid sex for a while and we dealt with it. Kinda like most women prefer not to have sex during their periods.
I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just comparing things. I'm just saying, just because a guy is intact doesn't mean he is more likely to get an infection.
Btw, I'm pretty proud of my vagina. Perhaps more than my DH is of his penis.
I'm pretty sure (read the old testament a long time ago) Leviticus is largely about cleanliness and societal laws. Things about isolating women on their period and food preparations and stuff. So i would doubt that masturbation had anything to do with the law and it came from wanting to keep men clean. (Definitely could be wrong)
I can totally see Christians adopting this practice for making sex wrong and dirty.
eta: I posted before I read your explanation Scarlett, thanks!!
Just because I was interested, I did some looking into on this alleged anti-masterbating claim, and it turns out the Catholic Church outrightly condemned circ'ing. It was considered a mortal sin in the Coucil of Basel-Florence, in 1442. (I assume that's since been changed/reviewed. Catholicism has a lot of councils and things to track, and I admit I know just a little more than the basics). Christians didn't start practicing circumcision until the 19th century for medical reasons. Just thought I'd clear up just how off this "research" was.
It really depends on what source you look at. Some claim that the "medical reasons" for circing came about after the fact.
Regardless, a decision to circ or not should be based on contemporary evidence of benefits and risks.
Mama to a little girl born July 2011 and a little boy born April 2014!
Surely if good hygiene is practiced their isn't much of a chance of infection. I think assuming that all men are dirty is a little small minded. My bf isn't circumcised and I don't find his penis unsightly and it certainly isn't stinky. He showers often and cleans his stuff properly. Not ALL uncircumcised penises get infected just like not all circumcised penises avoid infection. It all falls on hygiene.
Oh God, this thread is turning into a huge clusterfuck debate, right? Wait for the 20 week u/s. It might not even be a boy. You have so much time to discuss it, and make a decision. No need to rush now. Go at it A14.
:-??
Where was that happening before this?
Just give it 7 more pages. OP never asked what your opinion on circumcision is. She asked what you and your spouse have done if you disagree on the topic.
After doing a considerable amount of research, we did not circumcise DS and we have never had any doubts or regrets about that decision. DH is circumcised but was adamant DS would not be after researching the issue. If this LO is a boy, he will be left intact as well.
As for "regional popularity" out of all the other little boys we know (know well enough to know whether they are or aren't!), we only know one little boy who is circumcised and his parents did not circumcise his younger brother. We live on the west coast.
And as for anecdotes about the opinions of medical professionals, all of DS's hospital nurses said he was a "lucky" little boy. I'm sure plenty of other nurses might say otherwise, but that was our experience!
OP, I feel for you. I am grateful DH and I agreed. Very grateful. If you are having a boy, I encourage you to respectfully advocate for leaving your son intact. People will say their baby slept through it or didn't cry... I won't get into it in this thread but you can do your own research on why some babies might fall asleep for it. Just keep researching and advocating. Listen to your DH but don't give up the fight!
Thank you all for your opinions! I will leave it alone for a while longer. I am a bit surprised that some of you think watching a video of one being performed is weird. I don't think so. I was not even able to finish watching it. I am in the healthcare field as well as my H. I want to be very educated and informed on topics such as this. Since they do not allow us to be in the room while it is being performed, I want to know what they are doing to my child. Yes I am the over protective mom, but we need to be since they can't voice their opinion. I do not judge anyone who does or does not circumcise. Like I mentioned I used to be for it, but I am against it after my research. Again I really appreciate all of your opinions and advice. Thank you!
She's obviously trying to make an informed decision or else she wouldn't know both sides of circumcision. And we wouldn't be posting on this topic. I've heard both sides of men who were and weren't. Never had an issue not being snipped no infections no problem better feeling. The only negative I heard from the one being snipped was not much of feeling and couldn't stay hard long enough. Sorry just trying to state word for word. What she chooses she shouldn't be judged at the end of the day this is her family.
I prefer to circumcise if we have a boy but ultimately Ill leave it up to my hubby. I don't know why but I just kinda feel like they have a bigger say in this decision.
This exactly. I would wait until you know if it's a boy for sure though. I thought that I preferred circumcision, but I left it up to my husband to make the final decision. DS didn't cry at all and it healed perfectly. I've actually heard quite a few stories of uncircumcised men having issues, so I'm glad we went the circumcision route. If this LO is a boy, then he will also be circumcised.
As for the "you're so weird for watching" thing, here's a thought. When you're an ADULT and have any procedure done, doctors explain it to you. Often in detail. I've had several surgeries and, even as a teenager, I never had one doctor come in and say "You want to know what we're doing? Wow! You're sick." I was old enough to understand and doctors explained it. Your newborn is NOT old enough to understand, therefore, it is YOUR job as a parent to understand it. If you aren't at least asking for a detailed description of the procedure, with risks and benefits, then, well, I am not sure I want to say what I think of you.
Its your choice! But if you go in to it blind and uneducated, shame on you!
Re: H doesn't agree anymore
I have never known a man who didn't prefer to keep his penis clean, rather than let it get gross and infected.
Also, what's wrong with him telling his wife/girlfriend that he can't have sex because of an infection?
When I get a yeast infection I don't have a problem telling DH that we can't have sex for a few days. I don't like it, but I don't think, "hey, maybe I should get my vagina removed, then I can't get an infection".
That would be the equivalent in that regard.
I keep myself clean (as I'm sure most people do), but sometimes infections are because of food consumed in excess, or intolerances, or sweat, etc.,
it doesn't mean someone is dirty.
-----
OP. present your case, then drop it for a bit. Perhaps until you are close to delivery.
Well, we did the research, and after, I turned to hubby and said- 'I feel bad you were cut'. We did not circ and to me it seems pointless. It is in fact genital mutilation- it was started by the church to decrease sensitivity in a guy's penis so he'll masturbate less- i'm not joking- look it up- and that's almost the most sane reason- others included decreasing lunacy and blindness. When I learned this, I was horrified and opted out (up until doing any research I just figured we would circ- why? cuz all the dudes of my generation have it done and I was ignorant and had never had a reason to look in to it.) Of course it's a personal choice and I don't think any less of friends etc. that choose to do it, but I never would.
And just so everyone knows- you don't have to pull back and clean anything! A foreskin is self cleaning, like a vagina. Sure you soap up the area, but no one is going up there with a bottle brush to make sure it is clean- over cleaning and removing natural skin secretions is what causes infections/irritation. And the esthetics argument is one I do not understand- a kid's penis will never look anything like his fathers, and by the time it does, they won't be naked in the same room together comparing crotches.
I agree with the above statement of 'lets remove our tonsils and appendix asap just in case something may go wrong'. I also had a great perspective from my dad who was circ'd at age 47 due to a pre-cancerous patch of skin. I asked him point blank when we were researching and he said sensitivity has gone down due to the head of his penis being exposed to underwear, the air etc- a foreskin is there to protect the penis and increase pleasure...which is why it was originally removed to decrease it. He also said it didn't make much difference. If any part of my kid's (or my own) body needed to be removed for med. reasons- of course. Until then, why?
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
ETA: I just remembered; circumcision predates Levitical law.
Removing your vagina and removing the foreskin of a penis is not the same thing. If you remove your vagina you can't have sex, have kids, have an orgasm etc. All of those things are still possible when removing the foreskin.I don't really understand that argument.
I suppose having a yeast infection and an infection on your penis would be close to the same thing. Guys are a lot more proud of their penis and take it a lot harder when their penis "doesn't work" for whatever reason. Think about this...how many women are okay talking about infertility problems...how many men do you know who will speak openly about having an ED?? Not being able to have sex is embarrassing for a guy. If you're married it obviously wouldn't be a big deal, but a having to tell your gf your penis has an infection I'm pretty sure would be pretty humiliating for any guy.
BFP #2 03/01/13 EDD 11/12/13 MC and D&C 04/29/13 @ 12 weeks.
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people and the Jewish faith, I seriously have no words.
ETA: I'm not talking about your claims about circ'ing. I didn't even discuss my views on circ'ing, and I won't. I'm talking about an extremely ignorant claim that the Church----the Christian Church---invented a practice that's been a religious custom in the Jewish faith for thousands of years.
You can believe whatever you want to believe about circ'ing, but FFS, know the actual history. Judaism predates Christianity by about 2,000 years. They were practicing circ'ing loooong before there was a "church."
Circumcision is a very important Jewish religious custom. Claiming that the Christian Church invented it is extremely ignorant, and extremely disrespectful to people of the Jewish faith. Do. Your. Research.
Duuuude, circumcision is Levitical law. We're talking a good 1500 years before the church even came into existence! I'm not interested in debating circ'ing with anybody, but your research is hella off.
I mean, you know Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite, don't you?
It's certainly possible that circumcision became popular among Christians for that reason, but claiming that the Church invented circumcision is just plain ignorant.
It's cool if you don't agree- again, i'm not making up what I researched. If you choose, you can look it up for yourself. I was shocked at what I learned and opted out. As I already stated, it is a personal choice and yours to make and what you choose doesn't affect me and I would never judge it. I'm sure it won't be hard to find the info I presented- it was easy enough for me. Almost all of my info was given to me by my MW- research for and against. The 'for' just didn't make sense to me, so I made my choice. It's all good. My claim is not ignorant, it's well researched. You do know that levitical law is of the church?- I don't quite understand your argument, but it's cool. Nothing against the church either, but they got this one wrong. Happy researching! Time for sleep. Maybe i'll catch ya again tomorrow. Peace!
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people, I seriously have no words.
---------
@scarlett&gatsby
No snark intended because I know nothing but basics of the Jewish faith, but why is it disrespectful?
Eta: NM saw your edit!!
Where was that happening before this?
bfp#4 3/19/2014 edd 12/1/2014 please let this be the one!
beta @ 5w0d = 12,026! u/s 4/22/14 @ 8w1d it's twins!
This is so extremely disrespectful to Jewish people, I seriously have no words. --------- @scarlett&gatsby No snark intended because I know nothing but basics of the Jewish faith, but why is it disrespectful?
No problem! Happy to explain.
It's disrespectful to Jewish people because it completely ignores and paints over their history and involvement in circumcision. Circumcision, as far as we know, was invented* by the Hebrews as a way to set themselves apart as the people of God.
Claiming that the Church randomly came up with circ'ing to make men stop masterbating is a huge slap in the face of people who hold circ'ing in high regard as a religious rite. I consider that pretty disrespectful.
(*according to the Torah, God instructed Abraham to circumcise himself and all of his descendants as a way to clearly set them apart as his people.)
As an aside, I'm not Jewish. But bad history and utter ignorance of religion makes me twitch.
I can totally see Christians adopting this practice for making sex wrong and dirty.
eta: I posted before I read your explanation Scarlett, thanks!!
OP, come back to this later in pregnancy and research together.
But I'm glad I had a girl so I wouldn't have to make the decision. Maybe i'll have another girl and dodge the bullet again. Any medical procedure, even a minor one, especially a medically unnecessary one, on a newborn is worth researching.
BFP: 7/5/10 EDD: 3/13/11 Miscarriage 8/1/10 at 8 weeks
BFP: 10/30/10 EDD: 7/7/11 Born 7/11//11 7lb12oz, 20 in.
BFP: 7/30/13 EDD: 4/9/14 Born right on time on his due date! 8lb10oz, 21.5 in.
Awesome prophetic fortune cookie: Love is a present that can be given every single day you live
Removing your vagina and removing the foreskin of a penis is not the same thing. If you remove your vagina you can't have sex, have kids, have an orgasm etc. All of those things are still possible when removing the foreskin.I don't really understand that argument.
I suppose having a yeast infection and an infection on your penis would be close to the same thing. Guys are a lot more proud of their penis and take it a lot harder when their penis "doesn't work" for whatever reason. Think about this...how many women are okay talking about infertility problems...how many men do you know who will speak openly about having an ED?? Not being able to have sex is embarrassing for a guy. If you're married it obviously wouldn't be a big deal, but a having to tell your gf your penis has an infection I'm pretty sure would be pretty humiliating for any guy.
-----
I grew up in the backwoods area myself. I have many friends whose husbands go hunting and fishing for weeks at a time. They don't shower during that time either. They don't get infections because of it. (My DH is not into that)
Removing a vagina was being compared to removing the foreskin because those are two common infection sites.
If you want a one on one comparison, think about having your clitoris removed to compare to having foreskin removed.
Both people will enjoy sex less because of the removal.
If a guy is too embarrassed to say he can't have sex due to a medical issue, then he perhaps shouldn't be having sex at all.
I dated a guy with ED. We dealt with it.
I dated a guy who had a sports injury and needed to avoid sex for a while and we dealt with it.
Kinda like most women prefer not to have sex during their periods.
I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just comparing things.
I'm just saying, just because a guy is intact doesn't mean he is more likely to get an infection.
Btw, I'm pretty proud of my vagina. Perhaps more than my DH is of his penis.
Just because I was interested, I did some looking into on this alleged anti-masterbating claim, and it turns out the Catholic Church outrightly condemned circ'ing. It was considered a mortal sin in the Coucil of Basel-Florence, in 1442. (I assume that's since been changed/reviewed. Catholicism has a lot of councils and things to track, and I admit I know just a little more than the basics). Christians didn't start practicing circumcision until the 19th century for medical reasons. Just thought I'd clear up just how off this "research" was.